Fundie Mormons and Birth Control?

[xDreamerx]

I have a question. What's the fundie Mormon position on birth control? I assumed they were against it because of their beliefs about the pre-existence of the soul, and also because the mainstream Mormon church tends to rally together with the Catholics on issues like birth control, abortion and same sex marriage. On Big Love, they freaked on Nikki when they discovered she was on the pill (yes I realize it was a only a show).

But on Sister Wives Robyn mentioned that she "stopped on purpose" in regards to children with her ex, because he was abusive. I wondered what that meant. Did she just keep her distance from him from that point or did she use some form of bc? Do Mormons believe there are some circumstances where the use of birth control would be acceptable or not?

Just curious.

[Kitty]

Most Mormons use birth control, I believe. There are plenty with only two children, I think most only have 2-3, in fact, like Catholics. It's probably lip service.

On the other hand, most Mormons aren't fundies, and if you're talking FLDS, no, I don't think they do. I don't know about hte Sister Wives.

[Witsec7]

I have Mormon friends who used BC to space their 9 kids for optimal maternal health and positive birth outcomes.

[Juliakitty]

I have Mormon friends who used BC to space their 9 kids for optimal maternal health and positive birth outcomes.

:clap: I have infinitely more respect for people who say "We want to have a large family because we would really enjoy having a lot of children" than I do for people who are all "Contraception is WRONG."

[xDreamerx]

I have Mormon friends who used BC to space their 9 kids for optimal maternal health and positive birth outcomes.

Interesting. That's good to hear.

By fundie Mormons I didn't necessarily mean FLDS, because I assume their lives are extremely controlled so I would be surprised if the women had access to birth control. I guess by fundie, I meant Fundamentalist Mormons like Browns and maybe some LDS who were more conservative in their leanings. I wasn't sure if mainstream LDS allowed it or not or if eschewing birth control was more or less a technically that most people didn't bother with like a lot of Catholics.

[silverspoons]

My husband comes from a large mormon family (some more active then others). All his sisters use birth control. 2 of his brothers have been "snipped". His aunt who I would consider to be the most strict(has been a temple worker for years) says "you should only have the kids you can afford, but you should not buy a a fancy boat or car instead of having a kid". She had 5 kids because that is what she could afford tohave and be able to live a good life.

I live in an almost 100% lds neighborhood and I have watched the average number of kids decline 3-4 is very common now amoungest sucessful families with a SAHM. 20-25 years ago it was 6-8 kids.

I actually find the LDS views pretty decent on birth control. I grew up catholic and had to have an emergency partial hysterectomy at 19 and a priest yelled at me before I could even explain. Except for my fathers funeral I have not been back.

[Witsec7]

Interesting. That's good to hear.

By fundie Mormons I didn't necessarily mean FLDS, because I assume their lives are extremely controlled so I would be surprised if the women had access to birth control. I guess by fundie, I meant Fundamentalist Mormons like Browns and maybe some LDS who were more conservative in their leanings. I wasn't sure if mainstream LDS allowed it or not or if eschewing birth control was more or less a technically that most people didn't bother with like a lot of Catholics.

These are life long third generation, active in the stake Mormons. Both wife and husband work outside the home and have advanced degrees. They are a bit older than me and have been in my life 20+ years. We do not discuss men getting their own planets (or what ever the fucking fable is), but we've shared life and kids, good times and bad. They have never judged me (to my face) and ensure I have a very dry Bombay martini or two when I join their tribe for a holiday. They have two out gay kids. I do not think that they are the norm, they don't think they are either.

[dawn9476]

That's good about the Mormon church and birth control but there is still a lot to dislike about the Mormon church such as their stance on gay marriage. I also don't like the idea that if a mormon couple gets married in the church, non-mormons can't attend.

[PokaDot]

That's good about the Mormon church and birth control but there is still a lot to dislike about the Mormon church such as their stance on gay marriage. I also don't like the idea that if a mormon couple gets married in the church, non-mormons can't attend.

Actually, Mormon couples get married in the temple, and it's actually only large enough for a handful of people to go to the actual ceremony (think like....less than 10). You can greet them as they exit the temple (but this is usually a family + wedding party thing), as you don't need to be Mormon to go to Temple grounds.

Just think of it as a couple that had an exotic wedding, but local reception. My cousin just did that. Super small wedding, large reception. I don't need to go to the actual wedding to wish them well.

If a Mormon couple wants to get married in the actual church, then anyone and their dog can come (well, probably not the dog-unless it's a service dog).

[Rachel333]

Yeah, LDS people are usually totally fine with birth control. They technically take a pro-choice stance, too, since some abortions are allowed, but in my experience they don't appreciate being reminded of this. :P

On a side note, I've gotten into so many arguments with Mormons, but they tend to take it a lot better than the fundies. Once I got into a long argument with a missionary that I thought was fairly heated, but it ended in hugging. I happened to see her blog a few months later where her sister posted her e-mails, and I noticed a description of her encounter with me (she was American but this all happened overseas in a not very touristy place, so it wasn't surprising that I found it when I was googling information about the LDS church there). I braced myself, but she described me as "a delightful person" and even admitted that I knew a lot more about the church than she did, despite me not being a member. :lol: I'm probably just not as confrontational as I think I am.

[emmiedahl]

My Mormon relatives want at least five, but they used birth control at the beginning of their marriage for several years so they could pay off bills and get established. They use birth control between pregnancies and all of their kids are planned/born at the same interval, with identical space between them.

The goal, for them at least, is to have a ton of kids but preserve the mother's sanity and maintain a healthy space between offspring.

[silverspoons]

That's good about the Mormon church and birth control but there is still a lot to dislike about the Mormon church such as their stance on gay marriage. I also don't like the idea that if a mormon couple gets married in the church, non-mormons can't attend.

I was surprised after hearing the mormon church policy on gay marriage to actual see how families handled it. I worked at a large company in salt lake for years that offered same sex partner benefits so my department was almost 50% gay. There were lots of men in thier late 20's and they still had decent family relationships and were not shunned. they still went to weddings, holidays, and family dinners on sunday night. I'm not saying it was 100% accepted(it seemed like the older men in thier 40's+ had a harder time and several people said thier family made them try the evergreen program before they were accepted). I was also surprised when the lady in my department that always did the office parties (she was an lds relief society president) had bridal and baby showers for gay couples. She seemed just as happy for them as for an lds couple. This was 10 years ago but my floor anyone had over 10 kids born to gay couples and over 12 marriages.

As for the weddings, there is a push for temple weddings over civil these days. A couple can have a church/civil wedding with non-temple card holding family friends and then get married in the temple later. Temple attendance is down so bishops are being encouraged to have young couples go straight for the temple. My husbands best friend and business partner are bishops. I know both of these bishops will do a little cermony during the reception since usually only a handful of people go to the temple. I just went to a reception last weekend. the couple came in and the bishop announced them and they said some vows to each other and the bishops said her is Mr & Mrs xxxx. On one hand I find mormon weding dull and receptions are cheesy(same plastic arch and finger sandwichs) but at least most couples dont go into debt or spend a ton of money. The couple I saw last week took money for a down payment on a small house instead.

[Beeks]

The official stance of the mormon church is that the man and wife should "prayerfully consider" whether or not to use BC. However, in the more hardcore circles there CAN be a lot of social pressure not to, and to have a very large family.

As to FLDS, I have no idea but I assume it's not allowed.

[EmmieJ]

It seems that most Mormons have an underlying pragmatism in many things. Such as a strong belief that their offspring should be educated, and at least the males prepared to earn a decent living. My cousins are Mormon, and one of their daughters became a CPA like her father and worked in his office. So even though her parents' ultimate hope and goal for her was that she get married and have at least some children, they also appreciated that she was smart and had a desire for a college education. She is married now and has two kids, but I think she also still does part-time work out of her dad's firm. Seems to be a nice blend of their religious beliefs and cold reality that sometimes a family needs two incomes.

I don't know a lot of Mormons, but those I do know all seem to have "average" sized families. They have to be using some sort of BC, even if it's just the rhythm method. But I bet they use contraception almost as much as any other segment of society.

[prayercloseted]

These days, the hardcore FLDS aren't just not using birth control -- in an increasingly strange series of edicts from Warren Jeffs in prison, they've even been prohibited to have sex according to this news article

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7053 ... s-say.html

"As the year comes to an end and the followers of Warren Jeffs await the apocalypse he has predicted, they're living under a challenging edict: they're forbidden to have sex until Jeffs is sprung from a Texas prison.

"He has predicted that the walls in the prison where he's at will fall and crumble," said Joni Holm, who has many relatives in the polygamous FLDS faith.

According to Holm, Fundamentalist LDS Church members also face their faith's most severe punishment, excommunication, if they conceive a child."

[shesinsane]

From what I've read, the FDLS is officially against birth control, as the point is as many kids as possible. However, that didn't stop many FLDS women from seeking birth control pills or the Depo shot. The problem is that with limited freedom and little money, many women had a hard time obtaining it. I think it was Carolyn Jessop that was on the Depo shot (without her husband's knowledge), but some series of events caused her to miss her shot and she ended up with her youngest child.

I would imagine that if a pregnancy threatened the mother's life, her sister-wives would be able to raise her children after she passed.

[silverspoons]

I don't think FLDS use birth control at all. I have seen famlies with serious genetic conditions that keep having sick kid after sick kid. There was a family that visits the specilaity clinic I go to that have over 10 kids with a serious genetic issue and the FLDS mom was pregnant again. It boggles my mind. I have 2 kids and found out one has a genetic condition passed on from me before I knew I had it and I feel guilty everyday and will not have anymore kids. I can't imagine how that FLDS mom can keep having these sick kids.

[PokaDot]

I don't think FLDS use birth control at all. I have seen famlies with serious genetic conditions that keep having sick kid after sick kid. There was a family that visits the specilaity clinic I go to that have over 10 kids with a serious genetic issue and the FLDS mom was pregnant again. It boggles my mind. I have 2 kids and found out one has a genetic condition passed on from me before I knew I had it and I feel guilty everyday and will not have anymore kids. I can't imagine how that FLDS mom can keep having these sick kids.

Is it fumarase deficiency? I think that's the genetic condition that FLDS tends to be associated with (probably some wacko seeking a powertrip joined a few generations back and now it's common there).

ETA: A lot of "closed" communities tend to get common genetic conditions when they are rare in the world population. The Romanov's had hemophilia. Some of the Amish groups have mental retardation too. That's why they made laws about marrying your family.

[BravaAmica]

Yeah, LDS people are usually totally fine with birth control. They technically take a pro-choice stance, too, since some abortions are allowed, but in my experience they don't appreciate being reminded of this. :P

What *is* the LDS official/technical pro-choice stance?! I've always heard they are 100% against abortion in all cases, but obviously I am incorrect!

[TheJewAmongUs]

On Big Love, they freaked on Nikki when they discovered she was on the pill (yes I realize it was a only a show).

They were upset because she specifically said she wanted to have a third child, then took the pill in secret while being given extra nights so she could conceive.

This is an excerpt from lds.org:

Sexual relations within marriage are not only for the purpose of procreation, but also a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual ties between husband and wife.

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple. Elective abortion as a method of birth control, however, is contrary to the commandments of God.

lds. org/study/topics?lang=eng

ETA: I did hear Mitt Romney today railing on Obama, saying he'll repeal anything involving birth control in health care. Which is confusing, because isn't he considered semi-pro choice and generally pro healthcare? Elections are so confusing. Wake me up when it's over.

[PokaDot]

They were upset because she specifically said she wanted to have a third child, then took the pill in secret while being given extra nights so she could conceive.

This is an excerpt from lds.org:

lds. org/study/topics?lang=eng

ETA: I did hear Mitt Romney today railing on Obama, saying he'll repeal anything involving birth control in health care. Which is confusing, because isn't he considered semi-pro choice and generally pro healthcare? Elections are so confusing. Wake me up when it's over.

Here's some more:

[link=http://www.lds.org/study/topics/abortion?lang=eng]from lds.org[/link]

Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.

[Rachel333]

What *is* the LDS official/technical pro-choice stance?! I've always heard they are 100% against abortion in all cases, but obviously I am incorrect!

As has already been posted now, abortion can be allowed in cases of rape or when the woman's life is at stake. I thought it was interesting that Mitt Romney went to the hospital to stop a woman from having an abortion that had already been deemed acceptable by LDS elders.

So pro-choice is really stretching it, but the church's position does require abortion to be legal.

[silverspoons]

What *is* the LDS official/technical pro-choice stance?! I've always heard they are 100% against abortion in all cases, but obviously I am incorrect!

More then one LDS doctor brought up abortion with me. I was very sick during my pregnancy but no one knew why(later to find out I have EDS type 4 which is very dangerous). There are limited options for high risk pregnancy in Utah. One hospital would only offer an abortion or a referral to the other hospital. The second hospital discussed abortion. I know both dr's were lds(they clearly wore garments) and knew my husband was lds (and a return missionary). I actually was lucky I found a dr to deliver me in Utah. There was only one. The rest were too scared of malpractice. I carried to 35 weeks and my DD is fine but the doctors spoke to me on a very "medical level" about abortion. Also I found it interesting my insurance would not pay for an abortion, but the state of Utah would have paid for it(my husband took time off from work because we had to be near the high risk hospital. We had insurance but since he was not working the hospital said baby your baby type state program would pay for the abortion).

I also had 3 2nd term miscarriages and I had D&E's. There was never any talk of labor or seeing a fetus , again it was all very medical, nothing like what I am reading with this whole Jubilee story.

[ADoyle90815]

The thing I've heard is that officially, it's between the couple and God when it comes to using birth control. With abortion, the official teaching is that it's allowed in cases of rape or if the mother's life in danger. There are bishops such as Romney who have strongly discouraged women from getting an abortion in those cases, but my guess is that those incidents are rare.

[mirele]

As for the weddings, there is a push for temple weddings over civil these days. A couple can have a church/civil wedding with non-temple card holding family friends and then get married in the temple later. Temple attendance is down so bishops are being encouraged to have young couples go straight for the temple. My husbands best friend and business partner are bishops. I know both of these bishops will do a little cermony during the reception since usually only a handful of people go to the temple. I just went to a reception last weekend. the couple came in and the bishop announced them and they said some vows to each other and the bishops said her is Mr & Mrs xxxx. On one hand I find mormon weding dull and receptions are cheesy(same plastic arch and finger sandwichs) but at least most couples dont go into debt or spend a ton of money. The couple I saw last week took money for a down payment on a small house instead.

Blargh. The Church's stand on weddings sucks rocks. This is why: Most Western countries require a registry office ceremony for a marriage to be recognized. The US is one of the few Western countries where a religious ceremony is recognized as legally valid. So, for example, in the UK, you have to get married at the registry office and then you can add on a temple sealing the same day. But you can't do that here in the USA. If you want to have a wedding that everyone can see, you have to wait a year for the temple sealing AFTERWARDS. And it's considered lesser faith by not getting that temple wedding first and exclusively.

I know why the Church leadership refuses to change the US to match the situation just about everywhere else--one of the ways the Church gains new members is via conversion. Making temple marriage the ideal (and everything else unacceptable), the Church binds converts more fully to it as they wait to get married in the temple. But in the process, it destroys family relationships as parents, siblings and other relatives don't understand why they can't see Suzie's wedding. It makes total bullshit of the "Faaaaaaamily" commercials the Church likes to run.

Having seen more than my share of hurt people as a result of this policy, which basically only is the case in the USA (and maybe Canada, dunno), this is one thing that I frankly hate the old guys in Salt Lake City for. Yes, let's wreck families in the name of temple marriage. PFFFFFFFFFFFTH.