The Duggar conundrum

[Lillian]

That is pretty appalling and irresponsible.

Don't worry, we turned out fine.

You don't have to agree, you don't have to do anything similar with your own children. :)

[valsa]

Don't worry, we turned out fine.

You don't have to agree, you don't have to do anything similar with your own children. :)

I don't know if I'd call you "fine". After all, you do apparently consider that sort of behavior acceptable.

[Witsec1]

I think my baggy pantsed, hoodie wearing, tattooed, piereced, some white some brown some beige rowdy bunch would disagree that I give the Duggar's extra points for the way they look.

Obviously they are not always well behaved - but I think the way they act at home, and in their own yard is pretty common for a large group of children and I would imagine that when they edit them they are going to show the portions where they are moving around more than the portions where they are just sitting there- because that would be boring as hell. It would be like someone filming me sitting her on my computer posting to fj.. who would watch that ?

The staircase concerns me a great deal - and I can't believe how stupid it was to purposefully design it that way in a house made for small kids ..ridiculous.

I find it reassuring that they aren't always sitting still and behaving perfectly ( like they did on the early specials ) .. to me it shows that they probably aren't being physically violent with them.

While I understand some people are more quiet, calm and introverted than others - it would be very odd to have that large a group of children use "indoor voices" and play nicely all the time.

I find it interesting that you felt the need to respond to my comment, given that you were in the "rowdy is good" camp and not the "Duggars are soooo well-behaved" camp.

Like I say, I don't watch the show. It sounds like I probably have a higher tolerance than some here for "rough housing" - my brothers and I used to play football in the house, for instance. I also distinctly remember a waterfight indoors that ended up with ankle deep water on the kitchen floor. My parents were out, my older brother was supposedly baby-sitting. We managed to clean up pretty well and the parents only thought one or two water balloons had been tossed instead of buckets of water everywhere.

What people are describing about the Ethiopian restaurant incident would not be tolerated in my house. Rowdiness doesn't bug me, rudeness does.

[Lillian]

I don't know if I'd call you "fine". After all, you do apparently consider that sort of behavior acceptable.

I don't mind that you don't think i'm fine :)

[bananacat]

Don't worry, we turned out fine.

You don't have to agree, you don't have to do anything similar with your own children. :)

And what if you had damaged the merchandise that didn't belong to you? Would you have paid for it or just let the store take a loss? And what about the other shoppers that you could have potentially injured? I'm glad you turned out fine, because apparently you're the only person who matters. All those others can just screw themselves. Your fun memories trump all of their feelings. I'm sure they're just glad that you had fun :roll:

[Lillian]

And what if you had damaged the merchandise that didn't belong to you? Would you have paid for it or just let the store take a loss? And what about the other shoppers that you could have potentially injured? I'm glad you turned out fine, because apparently you're the only person who matters. All those others can just screw themselves. Your fun memories trump all of their feelings. I'm sure they're just glad that you had fun :roll:

I'd really rather not get into an argument. I will say that nobody was hurt, and it's not like we broke bikes and scooters out of their packaging in store and did laps around customers. They were the trial ones, set out for the customers (like in Big W (Walmart), the sporting goods section, where they have the trial skateboards, bikes, and scooters so you can test out the size and see if it's the one you want). I'm not sure what you think happened, but again, you don't have to do the same.

[EmmieJ]

And what if you had damaged the merchandise that didn't belong to you? Would you have paid for it or just let the store take a loss? And what about the other shoppers that you could have potentially injured? I'm glad you turned out fine, because apparently you're the only person who matters. All those others can just screw themselves. Your fun memories trump all of their feelings. I'm sure they're just glad that you had fun :roll:

I'm not sure where in my post I said my parents didn't let us run around and have fun. However, they allowed it in places where it was appropriate. Not in stores, not in churches, not in our home or someone else's home. That would be bad manners and as bananacat pointed out - fairly self-centered as well. But I'm glad you and your mom had fun and if other customers didn't appreciate, tough for them.

If turning out fine means you put yourself before others, then I'd say you're right.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'd really rather not get into an argument. I will say that nobody was hurt, and it's not like we broke bikes and scooters out of their packaging in store and did laps around customers. They were the trial ones, set out for the customers (like in Big W (Walmart), the sporting goods section, where they have the trial skateboards, bikes, and scooters so you can test out the size and see if it's the one you want). I'm not sure what you think happened, but again, you don't have to do the same.

I bought a bike at Meijer's a couple of years ago and I rode it up and down the aisles first. I was very careful and didn't break anything or run into any of my fellow customers. There's no way I'm spending $85 on a bike without trying it out first.

Toys R Us also doesn't seem to mind if the kids sample the bikes and trikes. I remember going there once with my niece when she was a baby. My sister put her in this little toy car and took her for a ride. And yes, they ended up buying the car.

[Lillian]

I'm not sure where in my post I said my parents didn't let us run around and have fun. However, they allowed it in places where it was appropriate. Not in stores, not in churches, not in our home or someone else's home. That would be bad manners and as bananacat pointed out - fairly self-centered as well. But I'm glad you and your mom had fun and if other customers didn't appreciate, tough for them.

If turning out fine means you put yourself before others, then I'd say you're right.

I'm not sure where in my posts I said your parents did not let you run around and have fun. If anything I did say offended you, I apologise, that was not my intention. I was describing my own experiences and upbringing.

[chiccy]

I'd really rather not get into an argument. I will say that nobody was hurt, and it's not like we broke bikes and scooters out of their packaging in store and did laps around customers. They were the trial ones, set out for the customers (like in Big W (Walmart), the sporting goods section, where they have the trial skateboards, bikes, and scooters so you can test out the size and see if it's the one you want). I'm not sure what you think happened, but again, you don't have to do the same.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a kid riding a trial bike a short distance in Walmart or Toys 'R Us, as long as they aren't going crazy and are mindful of other customers and merchandise. The bikes are put out to be tried out.

It's kind of amusing how incensed people are getting about this.

[Patsy]

Jenny Climbing on the outside of a staircase bannister, with concrete floors below, and none of the family thinking to do anything about it, is not acceptable.

Holy shit. When did this happen?

[SpeakNow]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a kid riding a trial bike a short distance in Walmart or Toys 'R Us, as long as they aren't going crazy and are mindful of other customers and merchandise. The bikes are put out to be tried out.

It's kind of amusing how incensed people are getting about this.

I know! I remember riding the power-wheels cars that you were allowed to test out at Toys R Us and Wal Mart. my mother always supervised me and my sister and made sure we didn't run over anyone or anything. I don't see a problem with testing it out as long as you're not riding around the store like a maniac.

[Patsy]

Hilter supposedly loved his dog and niece

Wait, Hitler carried on an underage, incestuous relationship with his dogs, controlled them a lot, and posted Nazi guards near them to control their behaviour until they killed themselves?

[sippin0nsunshine]

Holy shit. When did this happen?

Josie's birth episode around 2:20

4yvLIAz-3vA

[Patsy]

Yikes. I thought you meant there were adults just chillaxing around and silently watching her do it. :shock:

[Renting with Raggles]

Wait, Hitler carried on an underage, incestuous relationship with his dogs, controlled them a lot, and posted Nazi guards near them to control their behaviour until they killed themselves?

:lol: If only it had been his dogs. Mind you, I don't condone bestiality, but better that than Gellie.

The thing I dislike about the Duggars is their hypocrisy. I followed TWOP for several months and was unimpressed by the amount of damage control they do in response to internet criticism. They're clearly aware that they have to make their doctrine palatable to mainstream viewers, even though so many of their lies are clumsy (they bear the hallmark of ham-fisted Jboob).

I'm reminded of something I saw recently when a creationist showed up to comment on a discussion about science vs religion. He spouted the usual anti-evolution nonsense. Everyone else directly asked: hey, have you been to TalkOrigins.com - because they pretty much address all the 'concerns' or 'problems' you've identified with science? He ignored them and went on with his talking points. I think that kind of spin is highly dishonest.

[xReems]

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't Michelle and JB said, either on their show or in their book, that if a child wants to have one-on-one time, they have to make an appointment with them or they have a specific day for that? I remember hearing something like that before and felt very shocked about it. Just to talk to your parents about something private, you have to ask them when they're AVAILABLE like a flippin' doctor's appointment. Great job at being parents, guys!

[freealljs]

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't Michelle and JB said, either on their show or in their book, that if a child wants to have one-on-one time, they have to make an appointment with them or they have a specific day for that? I remember hearing something like that before and felt very shocked about it. Just to talk to your parents about something private, you have to ask them when they're AVAILABLE like a flippin' doctor's appointment. Great job at being parents, guys!

You are quite correct on that. I too was shocked and disappointed.

[Mais Pourquoi]

It's kind of amusing how incensed people are getting about this.

Really. I get it, the Duggar kids should not be allowed to ride around the store if they're not there to shop for bikes. However, I too am part of the club that rode a bike around at Walmart when I was a kid. The toy department employee actually told my dad it's what I should do to make sure I got the one I wanted. And it *was* a lot of fun! We could sit there and say "someone could have gotten hurt" at a lot of things, but there are bigger issues with the Duggars to get pearl-clutchy over. Personally I think it's as disrespectful to tell someone on FJ they were wrong/rude for having a normal childhood experience as it is to let your kid ride someone else's bike around unsupervised.

By the way, I am frequently late everywhere I go by a few minutes. I'm just not meant for the American lifestyle of following clocks down to the minute. Can't we just focus on the things that actually make the Duggar parents terrible?

[sippin0nsunshine]

Yikes. I thought you meant there were adults just chillaxing around and silently watching her do it. :shock:

That's how I had remembered it but when I saw the video I realised I was wrong. But even the camera crew has been shown to encourage the kids to do things they're not supposed to, and that could get them hurt.

[jesssnerch]

Really. I get it, the Duggar kids should not be allowed to ride around the store if they're not there to shop for bikes. However, I too am part of the club that rode a bike around at Walmart when I was a kid. The toy department employee actually told my dad it's what I should do to make sure I got the one I wanted. And it *was* a lot of fun! We could sit there and say "someone could have gotten hurt" at a lot of things, but there are bigger issues with the Duggars to get pearl-clutchy over. Personally I think it's as disrespectful to tell someone on FJ they were wrong/rude for having a normal childhood experience as it is to let your kid ride someone else's bike around unsupervised.

By the way, I am frequently late everywhere I go by a few minutes. I'm just not meant for the American lifestyle of following clocks down to the minute. Can't we just focus on the things that actually make the Duggar parents terrible?

I think there's a difference between being supervised trying out a bike and riding around a store like a maniac with no supervision. I'm sure we've all seen kids do both in store and there is a noticeable difference.

[Mais Pourquoi]

I think there's a difference between being supervised trying out a bike and riding around a store like a maniac with no supervision. I'm sure we've all seen kids do both in store and there is a noticeable difference.

I'm not arguing that there's no difference. I was responding to how much some people were using the D kids riding around unsupervised as a sticking point for how bad their parents are at parenting, and then attacking another poster as being wrong when she said she did the same thing. There are worse things JB and J'Chelle do, such as blanket training and restricting their children's education, and those should be our focus here.

[chiccy]

I'm not arguing that there's no difference. I was responding to how much some people were using the D kids riding around unsupervised as a sticking point for how bad their parents are at parenting, and then attacking another poster as being wrong when she said she did the same thing. There are worse things JB and J'Chelle do, such as blanket training and restricting their children's education, and those should be our focus here.

True. Although there does seem to be a theme in the Duggars' behavior of boorishness and putting themselves ahead of others. Examples would be Josh's general behavior (letting Anna wheel the suitcases to the hotel on their wedding night, etc.), Michelle jaywalking in Scotland and then calling the drivers "rude" for not stopping for her, and so on. Wild bicycle riding in a store--as though the store belonged to them--fits right into this picture.

However, I agree that otherwise well-behaved kids' carefully trying out a bicycle in a store is not a problem...never mind the sort of life-or-death problem some posters have been making it out to be.

[bananacat]

I'm not arguing that there's no difference. I was responding to how much some people were using the D kids riding around unsupervised as a sticking point for how bad their parents are at parenting, and then attacking another poster as being wrong when she said she did the same thing. There are worse things JB and J'Chelle do, such as blanket training and restricting their children's education, and those should be our focus here.

I wasn't using that as an example of the JB's and Michelle's bad parenting. We're all already in agreement on that one. I was using it as an example about how some people just insist on believing that the children are polite and well-behaved.

Really, all I've heard so far is:

1) All kids ride bikes outside in the appropriate environment, so those kids are perfectly fine for doing it inside a store! It's no different!

2) Some kids try out bikes before buying them, so those kids are perfectly fine for riding them completely unsupervised and with no intention of buying them! It's no different!

No, the Duggar kids simply are not better behaved than most kids, full stop. And yet certain people still insist that they are, by making these ridiculous leaps of logic. I don't think it's their fault, but they still aren't the polite and well-behaved kids that some people think they are.

[Lillian]

I wasn't using that as an example of the JB's and Michelle's bad parenting. We're all already in agreement on that one. I was using it as an example about how some people just insist on believing that the children are polite and well-behaved.

Really, all I've heard so far is:

1) All kids ride bikes outside in the appropriate environment, so those kids are perfectly fine for doing it inside a store! It's no different!

2) Some kids try out bikes before buying them, so those kids are perfectly fine for riding them completely unsupervised and with no intention of buying them! It's no different!

No, the Duggar kids simply are not better behaved than most kids, full stop. And yet certain people still insist that they are, by making these ridiculous leaps of logic. I don't think it's their fault, but they still aren't the polite and well-behaved kids that some people think they are.

Just to clarify, I do not think the Duggar kids are perfectly well behaved angels, if in case by 'certain people' you were referring to me. My original point was that their actions seem like things that any child would do, exacerbated by their environment (lack of parenting, school, etc.).