The Duggar conundrum

[flipflop]

This is my first time post as a long time lurker. I first caught the Duggar's one Friday evening when my headship was out and I was channel surfing and I was immediately fascinated. My feelings were mixed and I continue to be confused about my feelings for this by this family.

 

On one hand they are totally mad. 19 kids, how can anyone afford either emotionally or financially to bring up 19 children? They cannot possibly get the attention they need. The gender roles OMG, girls keep house and have babies boys do manly stuff and are in charge. No way on this earth! That make me want to scream, we have fought for centuries for equality and they are just handing every right we have back to men which is a very dangerous road to take. The whole courting and applying to your father bit is just wrong on so many levels. You then decide to marry someone on very short acquaintance with no time alone before you enter into a life long commitment. No chance to check he does not kiss like a wet cloth, then you are expected to jump from no physical intimacy at all to full on sex in one day - that is a recipe for disappointment. Sheltering your children from the big wide world is just ridiculous you need to give them roots AND wings. The rules they live to are so absolute that I am sure any of the children who step over the line will be ostracized. There is also an element of hypocrisy about being on a TV show and then rejecting TV as a medium. And I am genuinely far too modest to have had TV camera's and and crew in the labour room with me. If you will not show your knee or shoulder how on this earth can you show THAT!!! to a camera crew?

 

The opposite side of the coin is that is I see 19 lovely children (I know you may not all agree with that, and yes some of them are lovelier than others!) but they are polite, well mannered, hard working and respectful so JB and Michelle must have got something right. They are a close loving family, who have real faith and are wiling to stand up and profess that. They really do try and live a life of service. They do not walk the easy path in terms of their beliefs and lifestyle and part of me really admires them for that. Also they are all so good natured, no screaming or shouting. How do they manage that?

 

Am I the only one out there who is torn between admiring them and being appalled?

[valsa]

they are polite, well mannered, hard working and respectful so JB and Michelle must have got something right.

Really? There's a reason the gang of middle boys are called "howler monkeys". They're incredibly ill-mannered and chaotic, including doing things to damage the rental house they stayed in when Josie was in the NICU. Most of the kids are rude, which is just responding to how rude their parents are (kids holding their noses in the Ethiopian restaurant, Josh throwing a fit over being offered wine at another restaurant, Jim Bob accosting people in Europe to talk about religion) Josh is the least hardworking self-employed person I've ever known of.

[Witsec7]

but they are polite, well mannered, hard working and respectful so JB and Michelle must have got something right.

Your standards for well behaved children are far afield from mine flipflop. I don't consider kids using 'outdoor' voices indoors well behaved. I'd even go out further on my old limb and state that I don't feel that kids jumping on furniture or walking on tables and counters to be well behaved either. But hey, thats just my opinion.

[Anxious Girl]

Have you ever researched the Duggars' beliefs in-depth? Jim-Bob, Michelle, and Josh truly are disgusting people.

[jaynie]

Also they are all so good natured, no screaming or shouting. How do they manage that?

Good editing? Jim Bob has a lot of control over what is aired and since their entire brand rests on their image of lovely, wholesome godliness, he doesn't really have any motivation to show us the fighting, or worse. That said, some things do get through, like the ill-behaved howler monkeys (every time I've tuned into the show I've seen at least one child doing something bratty). I think someone mentioned recently that Josiah almost admitted the boys fight, but was cut off by Jill. It's very easy to project that image if you can edit out dissent, especially if there are people who *want* to believe it anyway.

I think Josh's twittering is a fairly good demonstration that they do not have 19 lovely, well mannered, respectful children. They just have 18 children who are not allowed to voice their own opinions without being interrupted, corrected, or simply edited out, and one child who, given a little bit of freedom, has proven to be something of a failure in the "decent human being" department. Some of their children are likeable, though, but I think that is in spite of their upbringing.

[gilora]

Check out Josh's instagram and twitter. He's the oldest son, the "crown jewel" if you will, and he comes off as a lazy, ignorant, spoiled brat. He most certainly does NOT live a life of service, unless it' service to him.

[Jessica]

How in the world are they well-behaved or polite? I could go find probably 15 videos right now to prove otherwise. I can think of a few off the top of my head:

Jessa lying when being questioned about something she did (saying she didn't do it even though it ws on camera). For a family so obsessed with the Good Person Test you'd think a 17-year-old wouldn't be caught lying.

Jason stealing all the candy at Anna's baby shower

James doing "school" -- my 2-year-old can sit still longer than he can

James throwing Mackynzie's baby doll onto a beam so she couldn't get it

James hiding his school book and saying he couldn't find it

kids rolling their eyes over the smells and dancing in the Ethiopian restaurant

Josh saying mean things about disabled kids on his Instagram page

Jeremiah rolling his eyes at the church service they went to in Little Rock

Josh... well, being Josh...

Jackson & Johannah constantly interrupting each other. Good grief, Shirley Phelps doesn't even interrupt people as much as those two do!

Jim Bob & Michelle going from claiming to be Quiverfull to saying they aren't part of any movement. "We've heard of the Quiverfull movement", he says. Dude, you had a link to Quiverfull.com on the front page of your website!

The only ones I can think of who are polite/honest/hardworking are Jana, Jill, and Joseph.

edited to fix my jacked=up typo with "constantly". sheesh!

[ladypuglover]

The only ones I can think of who are polite/honest/hardworking are Jana, Jill, and Joseph.

What about JD, Joy, Jennifer and Jordyn?

[formergothardite]

What did Jessa lie about?

[Jessica]

What about JD, Joy, Jennifer and Jordyn?

Ahh yes, thank you! Add 'em to my list too.

[Jessica]

What did Jessa lie about?

There's some clip of them throwing old bagels to some animals and she throws one at the camera guy. Later when she's asked about it she says she didn't do it. They tell her they got her on film doing it and she squirms a bit and goes "Oh... Well, AMY started it. She likes to cause trouble". So it's just a little lie.

[valsa]

What about JD, Joy, Jennifer and Jordyn?

JD's been hinky since that photo where he was severely mishandling a gun with their exchange student. I know we tend to characterize JD as "one of the good ones" because he's so quiet, but we really don't know much about him and I don't think there's ever been evidence that he's any better than Josh or JB.

Isn't it Jordyn or Jennifer who can't speak well so bacially just screams until her sister-mother gets her what she wants? Not her fault (I'd be frustrated too if I couldn't speak) but certainly doesn't reflect well on the family.

[bananacat]

I'm extremely tolerant of rambunctious kids, but even I think most of the little kids are brats. I draw a firm line at riding trikes inside a store, and if you think they're well-mannered then either you haven't actually watched the show, or you think that type of behavior is appropriate.

I kind of wonder whether you are trolling, have never actually seen a Duggar show, or are mistaking them with some completely different family.

[Anxious Girl]

This is my first time post as a long time lurker. I first caught the Duggar's one Friday evening when my headship was out and I was channel surfing and I was immediately fascinated. My feelings were mixed and I continue to be confused about my feelings for this by this family.

On one hand they are totally mad. 19 kids, how can anyone afford either emotionally or financially to bring up 19 children? They cannot possibly get the attention they need. The gender roles OMG, girls keep house and have babies boys do manly stuff and are in charge. No way on this earth! That make me want to scream, we have fought for centuries for equality and they are just handing every right we have back to men which is a very dangerous road to take. The whole courting and applying to your father bit is just wrong on so many levels. You then decide to marry someone on very short acquaintance with no time alone before you enter into a life long commitment. No chance to check he does not kiss like a wet cloth, then you are expected to jump from no physical intimacy at all to full on sex in one day - that is a recipe for disappointment. Sheltering your children from the big wide world is just ridiculous you need to give them roots AND wings. The rules they live to are so absolute that I am sure any of the children who step over the line will be ostracized. There is also an element of hypocrisy about being on a TV show and then rejecting TV as a medium. And I am genuinely far too modest to have had TV camera's and and crew in the labour room with me. If you will not show your knee or shoulder how on this earth can you show THAT!!! to a camera crew? The opposite side of the coin is that is I see 19 lovely children (I know you may not all agree with that, and yes some of them are lovelier than others!) but they are polite, well mannered, hard working and respectful so JB and Michelle must have got something right. They are a close loving family, who have real faith and are wiling to stand up and profess that. They really do try and live a life of service. They do not walk the easy path in terms of their beliefs and lifestyle and part of me really admires them for that. Also they are all so good natured, no screaming or shouting. How do they manage that?

Am I the only one out there who is torn between admiring them and being appalled?

Bolded #1: Is this what you really call your husband, or is this sarcasm?

Bolded #2: They're hypocrites, like every other human being on Earth has been at least a couple of times in their life.

Bolded #3: Lovely children? Have you seen Josh during Anna's labours, or what he types on his instagram and twitter sites? Lovely family? Did you see the stereotypical racism in their Farmville rip-off Makaziville? How do you know that behind the screens that they aren't close-loving? Haven't you heard of Jessa's or Jana's journey to a Gothard retreat camp? If you haven't, google it. NOW. What about the right response game where the have to answer the questions with what their parents consider are the correct answers?

Bolded #4: Missionary work isn't service. It's bribing other people in 3rd world countries to have clothes, electricity, food, heating, and plumbing, with Christianity to leave their old culture/relgion behind. Think about it for a moment: how would you feel if this were ocurring to you?

Bolded #5: Of course they don't. If any of them does want to leave, they feel as though they cannot because their family has provided the basic necessities so far for them. It'll be hard for them to move out of the cult.

[3 is enough]

I will concede that in the earliest special, 14 Kids and Pregnant Again the kids did appear to be exceedingly well-behaved, but the weekly series quickly proved that in fact, they are not. They may be respectful to their parents, but not to others, especially those who don't share their beliefs.

We've also seen the demise of the SOTDRT, to the point where the kids are just plopped in front of computers and a disinterested older sister checks on their progress occasionally. Of course, when there is a road trip, even that goes by the wayside.

Hard-working? I'll admit that JD, Joseph, Jana, and Jill seem to have a strong work ethic. Certainly not Josh, who has coasted through pretending to operate Daddy's car lot while he has employees who actually do all the work, and not the younger children.

Jim Bob and Michelle are part of a religious cult. Their children parrot their beliefs because they have not been given the opportunity to see that they follow a false prophet.

[FloraDoraDolly]

The Duggar howler monkeys are hyper, but I don't think they're bad kids. They just need more attention, a more structured routine, and more intellectual stimulation. On the whole, I find them more likeable than the spoiled, screaming divas on "Toddlers and Tiaras."

[RebelJinger]

The Duggar howler monkeys are hyper, but I don't think they're bad kids. They just need more attention, a more structured routine, and more intellectual stimulation. On the whole, I find them more likeable than the spoiled, screaming divas on "Toddlers and Tiaras."

I agree. I think we should distinguish between "bad children" and "children who do bad things". If unchecked, children who do bad things can BECOME bad people (Josh) but mostly I see children who suffer from mob mentality and generally have too few authority figures. After all, lots of well adjusted people had occasional bad behavior in their childhood--it's just not preserved on TV.

I remember the staff of Say Yes to the Dress saying that the children were surprisingly well behaved. Maybe it was just because they were out of the home environment where they felt comfortable jumping on the couch and whatnot.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is, we should definitely judge JimBoob and Michelle and Josh for the beliefs they vomit on us, but the kids are more off limits in my mind.

If there IS one thing I admire the Duggars for, it's their efficiency and cleaning ability (having adult daughters as slaves will do that for you). It's hard enough for me and my boyfriend to keep our apartment clean, haha.

[Antigone]

The Duggar howler monkeys are hyper, but I don't think they're bad kids. They just need more attention, a more structured routine, and more intellectual stimulation. On the whole, I find them more likeable than the spoiled, screaming divas on "Toddlers and Tiaras."

Agreed, I know a few kids who put the howlers to shame, and I try not to be so quick to judge children. After all, they are still learning (or supposed to be learning) all about behavior and stuff like that. If no one is around to teach them or work with them, of course they will be howlers. Just my own two cents from my own experiences with a few howlers, making me grateful I have only Sevy to worry about, that mouth of hers... I'm actually surprised the school hasn't called...yet. Granted, I'm pretty sure her Howler classmate keeps everyone busy enough to ignore her running commentary. lol.

And RebelJinger, you pretty much said what I wanted to say, lol.

[emmiedahl]

I don't think the Duggar children are demons, but they are not well-behaved. As for this:

polite, well mannered, hard working and respectful

Is it opposite day? I mean, there is not a real job between 21 of them.

[CC3]

I agree. I think we should distinguish between "bad children" and "children who do bad things". If unchecked, children who do bad things can BECOME bad people (Josh) but mostly I see children who suffer from mob mentality and generally have too few authority figures. After all, lots of well adjusted people had occasional bad behavior in their childhood--it's just not preserved on TV.

I remember the staff of Say Yes to the Dress saying that the children were surprisingly well behaved. Maybe it was just because they were out of the home environment where they felt comfortable jumping on the couch and whatnot.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is, we should definitely judge JimBoob and Michelle and Josh for the beliefs they vomit on us, but the kids are more off limits in my mind.

If there IS one thing I admire the Duggars for, it's their efficiency and cleaning ability (having adult daughters as slaves will do that for you). It's hard enough for me and my boyfriend to keep our apartment clean, haha.

I agree. I like the little boys because they haven't learned to spout their parents' beliefs word for word yet. I think Jackson is adorable (my dog's name is Jackson).

[valsa]

Who said acting ill-mannered makes them bad kids?

[AudreyofSnark]

I agree to some extent with flipflop. I am very against the things that their parents teach, but I have grown to adore their children, even the little bratty ones. Compared to children their age that I know, they seem exceedingly well behaved. Even Josh, though he's a little annoying, is a nice guy on the whole. I can't say that for many 25 year old guys I know. I think, especially with their travelling and publicity over the past few years, the majority of them will escape the cult that they were raised in and probably go on to be pretty well adjusted adults.

[gustava]

I agree to some extent with flipflop. I am very against the things that their parents teach, but I have grown to adore their children, even the little bratty ones. Compared to children their age that I know, they seem exceedingly well behaved. Even Josh, though he's a little annoying, is a nice guy on the whole. I can't say that for many 25 year old guys I know. I think, especially with their travelling and publicity over the past few years, the majority of them will escape the cult that they were raised in and probably go on to be pretty well adjusted adults.

I don't think that Josh is a role model for "well adjusted adults."

[AudreyofSnark]

I don't think that Josh is a role model for "well adjusted adults."

No, but I think that he is generally better off than a lot of people I know. I also think that if he broke with the church and distanced himself from Jim Bob, he wouldn't be quite so "smug."

[Witsec7]

Who said acting ill-mannered makes them bad kids?

No one. It was a distraction and a diversion only.