The Duggar conundrum

[flipflop]

In the event I have left the impression that I am really a wholehearted supporter of the Duggar way of life I will list the things I really do not like/object to:-

Patriarchal society

Inequality of women

Using your children as unpaid domestic help (both boys and girls but especially girls)

Having babies and appearing to lose interest in them once they become toddlers, not resuming any interest until they are a teenager (- Michelle not JB)

Not allowing or encouraging any individual thought or expression and especially not encouraging your grown up children to make their own way in the world

Duggar time- it is just rude to be constantly late

Michelle's shoes- she wear the ugliest foot wear I have ever seen

The girls flip flops (hence my nickname) which they wear in all weathers and even to climb hills, and isn't is immodest to show all those toes?

The ban on dancing thereby writing off the entire art of dance

The ban on listening to anything other than religious or classical music -they are missing so much great music!

Imposing standards neither of you adhered to such as courting as opposed to dating and the no kissing until you are married nonsense. I would understand if it was no sex as that is part of their values but no kissing even when you are engaged to be married is completely ridiculous and makes me very annoyed. There is something uncomfortably voyeuristic about being constantly chaperoned and everyone watching and applauding your first bit of physical intimacy - it is just wrong.

(But I still think they are not all bad!) :)

[JenniferJuniper]

http://tlc.discovery.com/videos/18-kids ... prank.html

I'd never seen that. Unbelievable.

The cops should have busted his ass. Of course the Bates were going to call 911 when they thought their kids had been kidnapped. That's unnecessarily tying up emergency resources. Maybe it’s just where I live, but if someone dials 911, even by accident, a cop is required to come out and investigate.

I think I would have had a stroke if I saw my car speeding away with my kids in it. What stupid pig fucker he is.

[EmmieJ]

When my kids went to daycare, the lead teachers had BAs and the assistants had AAs. There were minimum wage "helpers" who did laundry and gave breaks, I think they were basically untrained like the Duggar girls.

It was the same at my son's preschool. I sat on the board for the two years he attended, so I was aware that all teachers were encouraged to take continuing education classes as well. The school helped pay for those classes. The teachers working there did so because they loved and believed in what they were doing. It certainly wasn't for the money.

[HOTW]

I find it interesting that th eolder girls are the most admament flip flop wearers based on the fact they were the ones in the horrible leather boots in the early specials!

[EmmieJ]

Maybe the flip flops are an unconscious symbolism - freedom from restrictive shoes = wish they were free from their constricted lives?

[emmiedahl]

I think the reason for the odd mixture of flip-flops and boots is that it is removes a step from getting ready to go. Everything the children wear is slip-on. I tend to favor velcro and slip-on shoes for children for the same reason.

[xReems]

Anyone who looks up to the Duggars as an example of a good Christian family needs a major reality check.

-Their children are inconsiderate, disrespectful, and rude. Remember when they went to that Ethiopian restaurant and the children were rolling their eyes? I don't care if you're a 10 years old or 5 years old, JB and Michelle should have taught them to be respectful and make them understand the differences in culture and how certain people live their lives.

-The younger children running around, rolling around, screaming, crying at Kleinfeld when Michelle was picking out a wedding dress for her wedding renewals. I loved how JB and Michelle did nothing to discipline them and allowed them to be children at a wedding dress store.

-Michelle does not teach her children, Jessa does. She's not qualified to be a teacher even though she graduated and I highly doubt Michelle is too. Using "field trips" constantly to teach them is lazy on their parts since their children are not getting an adequate education. I'm not against homeschooling if it's done right. The Duggars rarely teach their children the basics and use homeschooling material that's completely biased and very opinionated.

-I do not think the children are allowed any opinion and free will unless if it's in agreement to their parents. I think JB and Michelle use scare tactics to make them do what they feel is right, even after when their children are adults. Remember Jill bragging about how she prefers living at home since so many parents kick their childen out by the age of 18? I wonder where she got that from? Or when Josh said that 95% of this country have had sex before marriage. Who told him that bogus statistic? Gothard, perhaps? Maybe even JB and Michelle?

-I think Smuggar is setting a wrong example to his two children on being a good Christian. Good Christians do not judge others for being different nor do they shove their beliefs down someone else's throat and claim "their faith is the right faith" like how he's been doing lately. He's just teaching his kids to be judgmental and disrespectful just like how he is. Hell, it didn't take Anna too long to become the female version of Smuggar.

-I don't think JB and Michelle teach their daughters anything other than to be a housewife, a mother, and to pop out as many children as "God sees fit." Most parents teach their children that they can become anything if they set their mind to it. Sure, JB and Michelle might teach their daughters that they can do anything but I'm sure they use Gothards pre-set list of careers that are appropriate for women.

No, they are not a good Christian family.

[valsa]

(But I still think they are not all bad!) :)

Meh. Even Hilter wasn't all bad.

[JenniferJuniper]

Maybe the flip flops are an unconscious symbolism - freedom from restrictive shoes = wish they were free from their constricted lives?

I think it's because JB buys different sizes in bulk when they are on sale at 10 pairs for a buck at the local Cheapo Depot.

[Witsec7]

In the event I have left the impression that I am really a wholehearted supporter of the Duggar way of life I will list the things I really do not like/object to:-

Patriarchal society

Inequality of women

Using your children as unpaid domestic help (both boys and girls but especially girls)

Having babies and appearing to lose interest in them once they become toddlers, not resuming any interest until they are a teenager (- Michelle not JB)

Not allowing or encouraging any individual thought or expression and especially not encouraging your grown up children to make their own way in the world

Duggar time- it is just rude to be constantly late

Michelle's shoes- she wear the ugliest foot wear I have ever seen

The girls flip flops (hence my nickname) which they wear in all weathers and even to climb hills, and isn't is immodest to show all those toes?

The ban on dancing thereby writing off the entire art of dance

The ban on listening to anything other than religious or classical music -they are missing so much great music!

Imposing standards neither of you adhered to such as courting as opposed to dating and the no kissing until you are married nonsense. I would understand if it was no sex as that is part of their values but no kissing even when you are engaged to be married is completely ridiculous and makes me very annoyed. There is something uncomfortably voyeuristic about being constantly chaperoned and everyone watching and applauding your first bit of physical intimacy - it is just wrong.

(But I still think they are not all bad!) :)

What about:

Kids climbing on furniture, tables and counter tops?

Kids rolling their eyes at people because of their cultural differences?

Sons making rude comments about disabled children?

Kids riding bikes in stores?

Kids acting like howlers in retail stores?

Nah they're not all bad :roll:

[Anxious Girl]

Meh. Even Hilter wasn't all bad.

Godwin's law already, eh Valsa? ;)

[valsa]

Godwin's law already, eh Valsa? ;)

Do I get points for at least waiting until page 6?

I'll go to my prayer closet now :cry:

[flipflop]

As I said earlier I do believe the inappropriate comments, eye rolling etc when facing a situation or circumstance they are unused to is as a result of a very restricted upbringing. They are kept in a very contained environment and are lees likely to appreciate diversity and difference. \it needs to be explained to them.

Riding bikes, climbing- that is jut regular kid stuff and all children are naughty sometimes. The point is they can be extremely well behaved when required.

As for the previous post I am not aware of any redeeming features Hitler had, in any event we would not want to compare the Duggar's to Hitler as that would be like comparing the holocaust to abortion and that would not do at all would it?

[valsa]

As for the previous post I am not aware of any redeeming features Hitler had, in any event we would not want to compare the Duggar's to Hitler as that would be like comparing the holocaust to abortion and that would not do at all would it?

Hilter supposedly loved his dog and niece, and several former employees of his have said he was a good boss.

I'm not comparing the Duggars to Hilter, I'm pointing out the logical fallacy of saying "I still think they are not all bad" as if it were some kind of endorsement. 100% bad people only exist in fairytales and Disney movies- no one is all bad.

[formergothardite]

Basically flipflop, you are saying, sure they do mostly horrible things, but they have a small grain of good?

[valsa]

The point is they can be extremely well behaved when required.

I disagree. Not only can they can be very rude in public, but there should always be a bare minimum stardard of behavior required at all times. Kids shouldn't be expected to be on their best behavior at all times but there should also be no time (after the age of 3 or 4, at least) when acting like a psychotic mental patient is acceptable, at home or otherwise.

[flipflop]

As I said when I began this topic I am torn on the Duggar's

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs. The rest of me is appalled at their strange often irrational rules, lifestyle, and treatment of the children. I just can't dislike them completely that is different form not being able to see their flaws. I can't be alone in this can I? Maybe FJ is the wrong place to ask that question! :)

[formergothardite]

As I said when I began this topic I am torn on the Duggar's

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs. The rest of me is appalled at their strange often irrational rules, lifestyle, and treatment of the children. I just can't dislike them completely that is different form not being able to see their flaws. I can't be alone in this can I? Maybe FJ is the wrong place to ask that question! :)

Being steadfast in dangerous and harmful beliefs is a good thing?

[flipflop]

Being steadfast in dangerous and harmful beliefs is a good thing?

Perhaps not, I take your point.

[Boogalou]

As I said when I began this topic I am torn on the Duggar's

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs. The rest of me is appalled at their strange often irrational rules, lifestyle, and treatment of the children. I just can't dislike them completely that is different form not being able to see their flaws. I can't be alone in this can I? Maybe FJ is the wrong place to ask that question! :)

I don't dislike the Duggars completely (I don't know if there is anyone that I only dislike and who have no redeeming qualities) I just mainly dislike them. I like that they have a very snarkable show, they keep their lawn mowed, they have a nice dining room table, they make cool slip and slides, their daughter leant her name to this site, and they keep the cream of ____ soup people in business. So no, you are not alone. I just think their bad qualities out weigh the good.

[JenniferJuniper]

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs. The rest of me is appalled at their strange often irrational rules, lifestyle, and treatment of the children. I just can't dislike them completely that is different form not being able to see their flaws. I can't be alone in this can I? Maybe FJ is the wrong place to ask that question! :)

It probably is. We know the Duggars very well out here. You might be happier someplace where posters buy the phony image they try to portray. Where they think it's cool that they have so many children they are unable to educate or control, or that using older daughters as house slaves is a good thing.

[valsa]

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs.

That's the whole point of the show, which they consider their "ministry". They put on a good face so that mainstream people like you will overlook all their harmful beliefs, because they look just so gosh darn wholesome.

You've bought into their publicity, just like you were supposed to.

[formergothardite]

Flipflop, if you don't want your beliefs on the Duggars challenged, then this isn't the place for you.

[formerlyfundie]

As I said when I began this topic I am torn on the Duggar's

Part of my likes them - I know you won't agree, but I do find them very personable and I admire their courage and steadfastness in in their beliefs. The rest of me is appalled at their strange often irrational rules, lifestyle, and treatment of the children. I just can't dislike them completely that is different form not being able to see their flaws. I can't be alone in this can I? Maybe FJ is the wrong place to ask that question! :)

I see what you are saying- I admire that they do decide to go with what they really believe is "God's plan", even if most people disagree. BUT I am not okay with them shunning other people who do not believe as they do and with them making it as if they are superior Christians because they do X,Y,Z- or the fact that a lot of what they do contradicts what they say. (They need to toss the modesty talk out the window- modesty is MORE than clothes.) They may put on a happy, clean, Christian veneer but under that is a hateful, closed minded, ignorant group of people all following a guy who is literally a walking contradiction. They may smile to your face and be all sweet and personable but unless you are EXACTLY like them or are someone they can use to get something done- you are no true friend of theirs. Think about it. I did, and while I am a Christian, I am normal and do normal things like watch TV and dance...oh and wear pants. Jana is my age and I know we would not be friends- mostly because we have completely different beliefs, but also because her parents wouldn't "approve" of me I am sure. I mean forget that we serve the same God and everything :roll: It's all about image with these people.

[formergothardite]

What exactly is admirable about doing what you think is "God's plan" when the end result is having so many children that you pretty much neglect them? Just because someone sticks to a plan that they claim came from God doesn't make it a good thing.