The Duggar conundrum

[Anxious Girl]

Former Gothardite, I agree with you. But on a side note: According to religious people, how do they know what God's plan is? Even though I'm sorta religious, I still don't think that any person, not even the Bible, can understand what God really wants from us.

[flipflop]

I am not leaving FJ it is far too interesting (and quite addictive)! I do not mind being challenged, that is rather the point of FJ. All fascinating stuff and the debates are very thought provoking.

[formerlyfundie]

I am not cheering on the fact that they are having so many children and so many of them don't have proper attention or love- but the fact that they are putting themselves out there in such a way, the fact that they clearly don't care about what people think because all they want to do is what they think pleases God is not so much admirable (wrong word for it)- it is brave of them. They obviously feel they are doing some kind of good with the shows and the books or they wouldn't keep doing it...(or maybe they would since $ talks) but they seriously seem to genuinely not care very much about being criticized.

[formergothardite]

It isn't really that brave to do earn tons of money to follow "God's will". Even if they do feel like they are doing good, the reality of it is that they are doing a lot of harm.

[formerlyfundie]

It isn't really that brave to do earn tons of money to follow "God's will". Even if they do feel like they are doing good, the reality of it is that they are doing a lot of harm.

You have a point. :doh:

[Mama Mia]

I think my baggy pantsed, hoodie wearing, tattooed, piereced, some white some brown some beige rowdy bunch would disagree that I give the Duggar's extra points for the way they look.

Obviously they are not always well behaved - but I think the way they act at home, and in their own yard is pretty common for a large group of children and I would imagine that when they edit them they are going to show the portions where they are moving around more than the portions where they are just sitting there- because that would be boring as hell. It would be like someone filming me sitting her on my computer posting to fj.. who would watch that ?

The staircase concerns me a great deal - and I can't believe how stupid it was to purposefully design it that way in a house made for small kids ..ridiculous.

I find it reassuring that they aren't always sitting still and behaving perfectly ( like they did on the early specials ) .. to me it shows that they probably aren't being physically violent with them.

While I understand some people are more quiet, calm and introverted than others - it would be very odd to have that large a group of children use "indoor voices" and play nicely all the time.

[EmmieJ]

What exactly is admirable about doing what you think is "God's plan" when the end result is having so many children that you pretty much neglect them? Just because someone sticks to a plan that they claim came from God doesn't make it a good thing.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure Jim Jones and David Koresh both thought they were sticking with "God's plan" as well.

[FloraDoraDolly]

As I said earlier I do believe the inappropriate comments, eye rolling etc when facing a situation or circumstance they are unused to is as a result of a very restricted upbringing. They are kept in a very contained environment and are lees likely to appreciate diversity and difference. \it needs to be explained to them.

I blame TLC for some of this. They know very well that the Duggars have a strong religious objection to dancing, yet they set up a situation where the whole family is in the Ethiopian restaurant where there was dancing. Of course the kids felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to react. From their point of view, they were watching something sinful and forbidden, something that would bring about a reprimand (or worse) if they tried it at home.

The wedding dress fitting is another TLC-created situation. That store was not an age appropriate environment for the little kids, but for some reason they all had to be there. In the very first Duggar special, they didn't take the youngest kids to the grocery store and even today we see in Josh's Instagram photos that the whole family doesn't always go everywhere together. So I think it's TLC and not the Duggars themselves who are pushing the notion of "all 19 kids always have to be there".

[valsa]

I blame TLC for some of this. They know very well that the Duggars have a strong religious objection to dancing, yet they set up a situation where the whole family is in the Ethiopian restaurant where there was dancing. Of course the kids felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to react. From their point of view, they were watching something sinful and forbidden, something that would bring about a reprimand (or worse) if they tried it at home.

Oh, if only the Duggar parents were in some kind of position to have a say in what the family does! Wait a second...

[JenniferJuniper]

I blame TLC for some of this. They know very well that the Duggars have a strong religious objection to dancing, yet they set up a situation where the whole family is in the Ethiopian restaurant where there was dancing. Of course the kids felt uncomfortable and didn't know how to react. From their point of view, they were watching something sinful and forbidden, something that would bring about a reprimand (or worse) if they tried it at home.

Have to agree with this. Remember when little Jackson was doing a little dance to a musical toy and he was immediately stopped by one of his sisters, who proceeded to lie to the camera and claim he wasn't dancing but just jumping for joy or some such nonsense.

The no-dancing thing bothers me so much. It's such a normal human reaction, as Jackson himself proved. When my kids were little, they danced away half the day. (I still have those damn Wiggles songs burned into my brain.) Suppressing such a natural, healthy reaction in small children under the threat of punishment strikes me as almost criminal.

[JenniferJuniper]

Oh, if only the Duggar parents were in some kind of position to have a say in what the family does! Wait a second...

I suspect they didn't know about the dancing in advance. TLC wanted to spice things up, in more ways than one.

[valsa]

I suspect they didn't know about the dancing in advance. TLC wanted to spice things up, in more ways than one.

Jimbob is a producer on the show. I seriously doubt there's anything the shows plans that they don't know about and okay.

[JenniferJuniper]

Jimbob is a producer on the show. I seriously doubt there's anything the shows plans that they don't know about and okay.

Understood, but there is no question that TLC has to keep the show somewhat interesting, and if they left control of things like this to Boob, they'd never happen. So I suspect Boob plays more of a role in the editing, as opposed to planning the outings. I'm sure he knew and agreed to go to the Ethiopian restaurant, but was never told or asked whether his kids would be subjected to what he no doubt considered "Dirty Dancing".

[FloraDoraDolly]

Oh, if only the Duggar parents were in some kind of position to have a say in what the family does! Wait a second...

I'm only sticking up for the kids here. Jim Bob and Michelle are on their own.

[bananacat]

Riding bikes, climbing- that is jut regular kid stuff and all children are naughty sometimes. The point is they can be extremely well behaved when required.

Read this slowly so you can grasp it. Riding bikes is ok. Nobody here has a problem with that. Riding bikes that don't belong to them inside a store with other people around, however, is not acceptable behavior. There's a big difference there. You think they can be well-behaved when they are required, but if being inside a public store isn't enough to warrant this alleged good behavior, then what is? That was a situation where they should have been better behaved and they weren't. I have to conclude that you are just trolling at this point because there is no way anyone is stupid enough to not see the difference between riding a bike outside and riding one in a store.

And no, not all children ride bikes inside. I never did it. My brothers never did it. We knew better. I was fairly bratty, and even I knew that there was a time and a place for it.

[Boogalou]

It wasn't just the dancing the Duggars were making faces at. It was making faces and comments at the incense while waving it away with their hands and plugging their noses, making faces at the food, making faces while describing the experience later on, calling food "gross looking", saying they were glad they didn't have to eat food like that all the time, etc. Their reactions to the dancing was probably the least offensive, IMO.

[valsa]

It wasn't just the dancing the Duggars were making faces at. It was making faces and comments at the incense while waving it away with their hands and plugging their noses, making faces at the food, making faces while describing the experience later on, calling food "gross looking", saying they were glad they didn't have to eat food like that all the time, etc. Their reactions to the dancing was probably the least offensive, IMO.

Exactly.

If you know you're going somewhere that your child is going to be exposed to a lot of new things, you prep them. And you tell them to be on their best behavior.

[sippin0nsunshine]

I dislike all the Duggars down to Joy (minus Jana, Love her and Jill a little bit). they've shown their asses more and more on the show lately and I just see no hope for them. From Joy on Down there seems a chance that one or more of the kids will leave the cult, since obviously they weren't disciplined as much as their older siblings. I'm holding out hope for Jana, Joy, and the lost girls Hannie, Jenny, and Jordyn.

They're not all "sunshine and rainbows" as TLC portrays them. They actually want to eliminate all those who don't think like them.

And about the climbing being "regular kid stuff", Jenny Climbing on the outside of a staircase bannister, with concrete floors below, and none of the family thinking to do anything about it, is not acceptable. Anna was the only one who reacted to that, Nobody else gave a flying fuck whether that little girl could possibly bust her head open and have to go to the ER.

[valsa]

Nobody else gave a flying fuck whether that little girl could possibly bust her head open and have to go to the ER.

They give a flying fuck. I assure you that Michelle would be right there... recording it on her camera phone. With a beauty pageant smile.

[bananacat]

I think out of the older boys, John and Joseph are hardworking. Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger are hard workers at home, but they don't any have work experience or even a few job skills. If they had to work outside the home they might encounter problems trying to enter the workforce. Childcare jobs would be a possibility, but I can see them having various problems in different workplaces because they are extremely sheltered.

As others have said, they wouldn't be as well-suited for childcare as a lot of people seem to think. It's not even just about having some education in childcare. They might be able to get jobs helping to do the gruntwork of caring for infants, because they have the technical skills to change diapers and give baths. But I wouldn't expect them to handle discipline well. Plenty of nannies don't have any kind of degree, but the parents will at least ask them about discipline methods and I don't think any of them would get past that part of the interview. I think Jill has the potential to discipline kids in an appropriate way, but she has never experienced it being done.

[Lillian]

I used to think the Duggars were a good, honest, Christian family, back when I first saw the show on TV. The I started googling, then I found FJ, and I questioned it. The gender roles, SOTDRT, etc etc, things that I totally disagree with, made me think ok- they are not all that good. THEN James fell into the orchestra pit, and I couldn't believe any human being would treat their child they way the Duggars treated James. And the entire Jubilee fiasco happened. And Josh's instagram and twitter were made public.

And now I know that really, they are horrible. They are hypocrites and famewhores.

I place all the blame on Boob and Jchelle, though. I think the howler monkeys are really just behaving as most kids in their environment would behave most of the time. When they don't have structure, enough attention from parents, not enough interesting school work to keep them occupied (and don't forget an exceptionally crappy diet full of sugar and fat), I think most children would turn into howler monkeys. The J'slaves can't be responsible for the upbringing of their siblings. It is ridiculous.

Also I think it's a normal kid thing to ride bikes in stores, climb on furniture, and swing dangerously high. I remember doing all of those things and I was a freakishly quiet, shy child.

[JenniferJuniper]

Also I think it's a normal kid thing to ride bikes in stores, climb on furniture, and swing dangerously high.

My parents would never have allowed us to do any of those things. Nor would I allow my children to ride bikes in stores, crawl on kitchen counters, hang off of open staircases, or walk around barefoot in March mud at 2 years old.

I suspect it's in large part because we had a manageable number of kids.

As my mother used to say about a family of neglected kids in our neighborhood who somehow managed to avoid serious accidents and injuries, “there must be angels watching over them†.

[EmmieJ]

My parents would never have allowed us to do any of those things. Nor would I allow my children to ride bikes in stores, crawl on kitchen counters, hang off of open staircases, or walk around barefoot in March mud at 2 years old.

...

Exactly. My parents had 8 kids. Granted, it's not the ginormous amount the Duggars have, but still rather a large family. But we had rules and discipline and two parents who were actively involved in our lives. We were not allowed to climb in the furniture, roughhouse indoors, run around yelling and shouting inside, etc. We were taught from an early age what was appropriate and what was not. The Duggars claim they can manage to have all these children, and stay out of debt. But apparently they cannot manage to find the time or energy to teach them appropriate behavior.

And most amazingly, none of us older kids had to raise our younger siblings. My mom and dad didn't walk hand in hand ahead of us all when we went out somewhere, and leave the older sisters to manage the rest of us. That Michelle is a lazy cow.

[Lillian]

Exactly. My parents had 8 kids. Granted, it's not the ginormous amount the Duggars have, but still rather a large family. But we had rules and discipline and two parents who were actively involved in our lives. We were not allowed to climb in the furniture, roughhouse indoors, run around yelling and shouting inside, etc. We were taught from an early age what was appropriate and what was not. The Duggars claim they can manage to have all these children, and stay out of debt. But apparently they cannot manage to find the time or energy to teach them appropriate behavior.

And most amazingly, none of us older kids had to raise our younger siblings. My mom and dad didn't walk hand in hand ahead of us all when we went out somewhere, and leave the older sisters to manage the rest of us. That Michelle is a lazy cow.

Well, I guess I have really irresponsible parents, because they didn't mind us running around a bit. Though there were only 2 of us. And usually Mum would ride around in stores with us. It actually made some really happy childhood memories, for me.

[valsa]

Well, I guess I have really irresponsible parents, because they didn't mind us running around a bit. Though there were only 2 of us. And usually Mum would ride around in stores with us. It actually made some really happy childhood memories, for me.

That is pretty appalling and irresponsible.