The Duggar conundrum

[FloraDoraDolly]

About the howlers climbing on tabletops, counters, and furniture... Nobody tells them NOT to do it, so therefore I can't classify this as misbehavior, bad behavior, or bratty behavior. The kids are simply doing what they are allowed to do, like any kids. In some instances (Johannah climbing her brothers' bunk beds and jumping from one to the other), the TV crew seemed to be encouraging her. Can't blame the child for that. It's only misbehavior if a parent (or an older buddy) tells the howler to stop it and they don't stop it. Or if they tell the howler to stop it and the howler gives a sassy reply or starts throwing a tantrum.

The howlers do seem to have more self-control when they're in public. I haven't seen them climbing tables in restaurants, for example, or over at Josh and Anna's house. So I'm guessing that Jim Bob and Michelle aren't very particular about what the kids do in their own home. I'm surprised the furniture has held up so well.

[HOTW]

Jason stealing all the candy at Anna's baby shower

James doing "school" -- my 2-year-old can sit still longer than he can

James throwing Mackynzie's baby doll onto a beam so she couldn't get it

James hiding his school book and saying he couldn't find it

Jeremiah rolling his eyes at the church service they went to in Little Rock

Jackson & Johannah constantly interrupting each other. Good grief, Shirley Phelps doesn't even interrupt people as much as those two do!

Well I am th eyoungest of 5 and I do recall we all did things like this..LOL..it's pretty normal...then there was the tome we tied up the babysitter playing cowboys and indians and left her tied up til our parents got home from th ebusiness dinner! :roll:

[lilah]

Josh saying mean things about disabled kids on his Instagram page

What exactly did he say? I knew you were a total asshole but that's a level of assholerly that's reserved for mustache twirling 1920's villians.

[valsa]

About the howlers climbing on tabletops, counters, and furniture... Nobody tells them NOT to do it, so therefore I can't classify this as misbehavior, bad behavior, or bratty behavior.

While I disagree with you on that, I hope we can both agree that it certainly doesn't make them well-mannered either.

[Luvchild]

I feel bad for these kids. They don't go to school and don't have the same interaction with kids their age that other children do. At school, they would have recesses, breaks, and organized physical education to release their pent-up energy. I watch the show and just see them behaving like normal kids. Josh, on the other hand, he needs more maturity. But he too grew up isolated and is a product of his parents' choices.

[smores]

I actually live at a major university in the Midwest, although I'm sure the Duggars would think it to be Devil's Island. The point is that Josh never had the chance to go to college. He never got the chance to be an adolescent. He went from being a child to an adult, married with kids. He's a little immature for his age. He tweets things and posts comments on pictures that are ignorant, racist, and inconsiderate. Trust me, I am surrounded by young men just like him. He certainly isn't perfect, but I think the ignorance is something he'll grow out of, especially if he leaves the church that he grew up in which pretty much perpetuates ignorance.

On the bright side, he may have his bad husband moments, but he seems to genuinely love his children. That's more than I can say for my own father or millions of fathers in this country. It's a small thing but shouldn't be taken lightly.

And the thing is, except for his parents, he is the worst of the Duggars. His sisters and the younger children seem to be very well behaved. Their parents are giving them a huge disadvantage in life, and it's sad. But it's not their fault they were raised in the craziness that they were and I feel like they are very sincere children and young adults. I can't help but like them. That's just my two cents.

Good Lord, you must be joking!

For the last five years, I lived in a college town - as I went to college and then, for a year after college. It was actually two different towns. I don't know what kind of crowd you attract to see so many 25 year old losers, but most of the people I knew and were friends with in college were well spoken and certainly not racist or very ignorant.

Furthermore, my husband is 24 and we have a child. If he treated me as Josh does Anna - and I don't even mean the fundie parts, I mean the lack of basic respect and any shred of chivalry - we would be done. That's not love. I think you are projecting what you would like to see, the tv image of an always happy family, onto the Duggars, and that is a dangerous mistake to make. Fundamentalism as a lifestyle is not happy and wholesome, and to continually drink the Kool-aid is to be in danger of slipping into a similarly limiting, possibly abusive lifestyle.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

To the original poster: You may want to read more. I suggest you start at my blog in the Right sidebar http://hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/

[AKay]

When my kids went to daycare, the lead teachers had BAs and the assistants had AAs. There were minimum wage "helpers" who did laundry and gave breaks, I think they were basically untrained like the Duggar girls.

Yep, similar experience here. The women in my son's daycare room all have college degrees in related fields (like infant psychology/development, early childhood education, etc), except for a few of the older women who all have like 20+ years of related job experience at day care centers. I wouldn't think it would be super easy for a SAHD with no work experience to just walk in to a place like that and get hired.

[debrand]

QFT.

What is QFT? If it is quite fucking terrific, I agree. The reason that some people give the Duggars a pass is because they look a certain way and belong to the religion that the majority of Americans follow

[valsa]

What is QFT? If it is quite fucking terrific, I agree. The reason that some people give the Duggars a pass is because they look a certain way and belong to the religion that the majority of Americans follow

QFT = Quoted For Truth.

[debrand]

I was shocked when the Duggar parents allowed the kids to make fun of Amy's fear of clowns. That wasn't funny. It was insensitive and cure. Adolescents aren't always sensitive but that is why they have parents.

Although I do not have a clown phobia, they do frighten me a bit. Actually, I have alot of tiny fears that make me anxious. It would anger and hurt me to have my family members mock my fear.

[valsa]

Didn't some of the kids pretend to drop a baby (Mac?) to scare Anna or something similar?

[Jessica]

That was Josiah. He had a baby doll wrapped up in a blanket and asked some photographer if they wanted to get a picture of him with the baby, then "tripped".

[formergothardite]

They get their sick sense of humor from their dad. He was the one who thought it would be funny to kidnap the Bateses kids and scare their parents.

[TheSassyOne]

Totally Off Topic:

emmiedahl, I love your new avatar. We're in the middle of Carnival season (Mardi Gras) down here and it's so colorful, it instantly put me in the mood of the season on this gloomy rainy day!

BACK ON TOPIC:

Eh, the younger kids don't know any better (concerning how to react when meeting different people or other foods). I blame that on the parents. I can't even blame the j-slaves for that, because they were kids themselves trying to raise babies.

But for the older children and the parents, they obviously use technology to know of what's going on in the world. That they choose to not correct rude/impolite behaviors for themselves or the little children....well that's on them, and in particular Michelle and Jim Bob. Of course with the adulation they receive from their fans, I'm sure they think their manners are just spiffy.

[fakepigtails73]

They get their sick sense of humor from their dad. He was the one who thought it would be funny to kidnap the Bateses kids and scare their parents.

WHAT?? :o

When the hell was that?

I knew JB is a tool, but this? American Psycho is more like it...

[2xx1xy1JD]

The Duggar howler monkeys are hyper, but I don't think they're bad kids. They just need more attention, a more structured routine, and more intellectual stimulation. On the whole, I find them more likeable than the spoiled, screaming divas on "Toddlers and Tiaras."

Sure, but that's setting the bar pretty damn low. Kids raised by wolves would be better off than the Toddlers & Tiaras bunch.

I think kids are supposed to be rambunctious, so the howlers don't bother me.

[SpeakNow]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Princess Bride FTW! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[formergothardite]

WHAT?? :o

When the hell was that?

I knew JB is a tool, but this? American Psycho is more like it...

http://tlc.discovery.com/videos/18-kids ... prank.html

[emmiedahl]

Since I discovered the term "howler monkeys", I have started using it to describe my own children on certain days.

I just want to thank freejinger for that contribution to my life.

A certain amount of rowdiness is just being part of a large family. You know how birthday parties can get crazy, the kids running around and screaming and jumping off couches? It is typical behavior for an uncontrolled mob of children. That is daily life at the Duggar's house.

To a lesser extent, I see the same in my own home. My 1 yo is a climber, but the older children all know not to be on counters and tables. On the other hand, yesterday I caught the 9 yo and the 7 yo doing somersaults off the top bunk into a pile of laundry they had collected from around the house. They had coordinated this activity in the time it takes for me to tune my 4 yo's violin=a few minutes.

The inherent rudeness of the Duggar children shows that they have not been taught manners, though. My kids all know how to say, "No Thank You" when they don't want something, and they would get The Look followed by a long lecture if they held their noses. But Michelle and JB cannot be bothered to actually teach their children.

[Conuly]

Kids raised by wolves would be better off than the Toddlers & Tiaras bunch.

At least the wolves wouldn't keep them hopped up on energy drinks 24/7.

[ellerigby]

What is QFT? If it is quite fucking terrific, I agree. The reason that some people give the Duggars a pass is because they look a certain way and belong to the religion that the majority of Americans follow

I posted quickly last night because I agreed with FloraPoste 100%, but was too sleepy to make a coherent comment of my own. I know valsa defined QFT for you, but I think "Quite Fucking Terrific" works rather well too.

I don't think this family would be nearly as beloved and defended if they weren't cute, white, decently-groomed, and Christian. If the Duggars belonged to an extremist sect of Islam (or any other religion than Christianity) and had browner skin, there would have been a major public outcry when their first special aired on TLC. Their religious history and financial situation would have been scrutinized by media outlets far more influential than FJ. There is no way a family with a different religion or race would appear on the Today Show to announce every additional child.

I truly despise them. Well, at least JB, Michelle, and Smuggar. I have nothing against the children and hope that some of them are able to escape and lead healthy, productive, happy lives, but I seriously doubt that.

[flipflop]

It has been really interesting to read your replies. I would have joined in the discussion earlier but have been at work and am posting from the UK so different time zones. (shame on me a working mother!)

In one post someone asked was I being sarcastic when I referred to my husband as my headship -hell YES! Equality all the way for me.

You have given some example of brattish behavior by the children (sorry not yet worked out how to quote posts), but I still think on the whole they are very well behaved. It is good they are naughty sometimes as all children are. They do behave on the TV appearances like the early morning show they often feature on and at book signings, in church etc. The older ones are so polite with everyone they meet with and the younger ones are just young. Yes any racist or offensive comments are of course wrong and of concern but perhaps point to a lack of understanding owing to a very narrow and somewhat bigoted upbringing. I do entirely get why you nick name him smuggar!

One post does suggest that any shouting at the children is edited out and I accept that could be the case. Certainly I cannot imagine there not being some shouting with all those kids. But on the whole the parents do remain very calm and they are filmed for long periods of time.

The whole home school thing amazes me, it is not at all common in the UK, in fact I have never met or heard of anyone who home schools. Hats off to those of you who do so, I have neither the patience or the ability. I do worry that the Duggar children are not getting a good educational foundation. Michelle may have the patience but I am not convinced she has the ability. Also school is not necessarily a bad place. Certainly my children's schools have been a safe nurturing environment where they have made friends and received a very high standard of education which I hope will be the foundation for future success. I do not see that with the Duggar kids and wonder if any of them could actually hack it in college given their schooling.

I remain not quite as anti-Duggar as some posters. It is really interesting to read the different takes on things and some of your comments make me laugh so much they are right on the money!

[formergothardite]

I remember on the very first special one of the little boys was crying to go with Michelle and she learned down and whispered something to him that you can't hear and he immediatly stops crying and backs away. My immediate thought was that she threatened him with some sort of punishment. I have been around ATI crowds enough to know that gentle discipline is not encouraged.

[emmiedahl]

I do worry that the Duggar children are not getting a good educational foundation. Michelle may have the patience but I am not convinced she has the ability.

Michelle does not homeschool them. She delegates that to one of the other children.

And, let's face it, on the road with so many appearances? Those kids are not learning jack except how to sit and watch Courageous.