Duggar World Tour

[takers401]

Good point! Hever Castle (Ann Boleyn's childhood home) has a water maze that is fantastic fun.

A water maze? Like what was somewhat shown in The Man in the Iron Mask where different 'sprinklers' were turned on to force people to go or not go in certain directions?

Ooh, how I'd love to visit England!

[Renting with Raggles]

Oh my, why won't the Duggars ever see performing arts?

I don't think most would be Gothard approved.

From what I understand, any form of dance is forbidden. That means everything from classical ballet and folk dancing to modern jazz is out. This would obviously extend to musical theatre productions and opera, both of which have dance numbers.

No drama. I suppose they might be more familiar with Early Modern English than most people because of the King James Bible study, but Shakespeare's stories are probably not acceptable. Even the history plays - too many sexual references in Henry V or Richard III. Same with Restoration and 18th C drama. No Oscar Wilde, because they'd have to think of his personal life. Modern plays are right out - can you imagine the Duggars at a production of Equus? Of course, no musical theatre, for storyline as well as reasons above. No panto, which has cross-dressing as well as dancing. Maybe a really crappy children's play.

No music with pronounced rhythm. Recently read about ATI restrictions - don't know enough about music to comment intelligently, but apparently the beat of almost everything composed after the 20th century would be out (jazz, etc thought by Gothard to derive from "demonic" African music). I would think they would avoid classical things like Mozart's Mass in C Minor because it's too Catholic. Opera is out because think of the defrauding stories - think La Traviata or Carmen or The Marriage of Figaro. All about the defraudin'. Don't get me started on Chinese opera. There's not really much left - 19th century hymns and some symphonic music, provided it's not by the evil Catholics.

No dancing. No drama. An extremely narrow range of music styles from about three centuries and one culture (Western Protestant) are acceptable. That's pretty much my definition of 'never seeing any of the performing arts'. Granted, they could watch any of these without participation, but it would make them damned hypocrites, IMO.

Edited to say I think castles with fun gardens are a great idea!

[Nettie]

http://www.hevercastle.co.uk/water-maze-for-kids.aspx

Hope the link works!

[Feberin]

That sounds amazing!

[AnnoDomini]

I don't think most would be Gothard approved.

From what I understand, any form of dance is forbidden. That means everything from classical ballet and folk dancing to modern jazz is out. This would obviously extend to musical theatre productions and opera, both of which have dance numbers.

No drama. I suppose they might be more familiar with Early Modern English than most people because of the King James Bible study, but Shakespeare's stories are probably not acceptable. Even the history plays - too many sexual references in Henry V or Richard III. Same with Restoration and 18th C drama. No Oscar Wilde, because they'd have to think of his personal life. Modern plays are right out - can you imagine the Duggars at a production of Equus? Of course, no musical theatre, for storyline as well as reasons above. No panto, which has cross-dressing as well as dancing. Maybe a really crappy children's play.

No music with pronounced rhythm. Recently read about ATI restrictions - don't know enough about music to comment intelligently, but apparently the beat of almost everything composed after the 20th century would be out (jazz, etc thought by Gothard to derive from "demonic" African music). I would think they would avoid classical things like Mozart's Mass in C Minor because it's too Catholic. Opera is out because think of the defrauding stories - think La Traviata or Carmen or The Marriage of Figaro. All about the defraudin'. Don't get me started on Chinese opera. There's not really much left - 19th century hymns and some symphonic music, provided it's not by the evil Catholics.

No dancing. No drama. An extremely narrow range of music styles from about three centuries and one culture (Western Protestant) are acceptable. That's pretty much my definition of 'never seeing any of the performing arts'. Granted, they could watch any of these without participation, but it would make them damned hypocrites, IMO.

Edited to say I think castles with fun gardens are a great idea!

Ohhh, that is unfortunate. I never thought of forbidden things like dancing, not being allowed to even watch. My family was unofficially forbidden from dancing too, but we still watched musicals and ballet.

[anniebgood]

I'd have kept them in Edinburgh/Scotland longer. In Edinburgh I'd at least take them to Arthur's seat, if not the Natonal Gallery, National Museum, Camera Obscura, etc. I think they might have been around during the Festival, too; I'm sure there are some Gothard-approved clasical music events on in any given year. They have ceilidhs, too, which I think is a great event for anyone visiting Scotland, but I don't think the Duggars dance.

I'd also take them to see more of the country. Glasgow, St. Andrews, Highlands, Southern Uplands, maybe even Orkney. I'd have loved to have seen them at the Neolithic sites in Orkney.

If they had gone to Orkney they could have met with their fellow American nutjob, Michelle of the Farm - Hijab.

[Eponine]

Btw, most houses here don't actually have bidets. Was that in their hotel? I always thought bidets were more of a French thing, to be honest, though I'm happy to be corrected.

This is from a while back, but just for the record most homes here in France don't have them either, although most hotels do (at least ones I've had experience with). Does anyone know if this European trip included any visits to the continent? I can just imagine the reaction they'd get here. :lol:

If they thought the British food was so weird what on earth are they going to do in Israel?

I am completely loving the study of British swear words. Not to derail the thread but did anyone ever watch the tv show Buffy the Vampire Slayer? It was on from late 90s to the early 2000s. There was a regular vampire character on there that was English and used several English swear words each episode. I always found it funny that they managed to get so much through the censors (bugger was used quite a bit lol). Ok I will stop derailing now :) .

Ahh Spike! One of my earliest crushes. I never liked Angel, he was so mopey. Anyway yes, they did get an awful lot through the censors via Spike's character - not just the English swear words but a lot of sexual stuff too.

[Lillybee]

If the Messiah was being produced, that might be something that they could see.

[MaroonMandy]

I am completely loving the study of British swear words. Not to derail the thread but did anyone ever watch the tv show Buffy the Vampire Slayer? It was on from late 90s to the early 2000s. There was a regular vampire character on there that was English and used several English swear words each episode. I always found it funny that they managed to get so much through the censors (bugger was used quite a bit lol). Ok I will stop derailing now :) .

I was a huge Buffy nerd in that back of the day, but I loved the moody Angel myself. I remember watching an extra on the DVDs where they guy who played Spike said Anthony Head (Giles) actually made fun of his accent because it was all over the place.

[MrsYoungie]

I visited in 1967. I have photos of us sitting on the stones. No one tried chipping off a piece.

I was there in 1967 as well! Maybe we were there at the same time. I was there in July.

[FJismyheadship]

I read somewhere that Jessa and Jinger were making comments and laughing about innuendo's while on a farm drinking milk? Someone wanna help me please? I'm curious to know what went on with that

[PennySycamore]

FMJ,

I think that happened when they were in Ireland. They did get to participate in the milking at the farm they visited. Of course, Boob tried to get a drink and ended up with milk all over his face. I can't recall what Jessa and Jinger said, though.

[OrangeTulips]

I agree, gotta be somewhere else.

The others have mentioned the pain of cuts in the Dead Sea, plus the awful taste and burning in the eyes. What NO ONE warns you about is if you were unfortunate enough to have a bowel movement recently, which creates small tears in that area. THAT's where my tour group itched and burned.

So yeah...not my favorite memory from the trip. Other than the group bonding over "How do I make it stop?!!?!?! AGGGHHHH!" (Answer: bottled water applied directly. Have fun doing that in the group-style changing area because you can't walk the distance to the bathrooms.)

[godlytomatosoup]

If the Messiah was being produced, that might be something that they could see.

Yeah. Or some Bach chorales, or one of the Passions. But the Messiah's in English, so they'd probably relate a lot better.

[darareaksmey]

It's gotta be the Jordan River. I think it's pretty popular to be baptized there, and lots of tour groups to it. My aunt was rebaptized there years ago on of of those Christian tours of Israel, and bought back some bottles of water from the river as souvenirs.

I doubt they'd allow people to get baptized in the Dead Sea, if they could go under, because of all the salt in their eyes and faces. Then again, rules do get bent for the Duggars and other TV show peeps, so who knows.

I sort of agree with you here. One of my pet peeves about modern Baptists (and most credo-baptist churches) is that they baptize very young children, then often point them back to a decision made before the age of 10 as a "see, you're saved & baptized and that's that" sort of thing if/when the person starts questioning their faith later as a teen or an adult. I think it's a little disingenuous to make a big deal about believer's baptist when you are baptizing children too young to really understand what they are doing and agreeing to.

This is one reason the Anabaptist groups do typically wait until real adulthood for baptism, because they want to be sure the person understands the choice and commitment that they are making. Baptists are supposed to be following that same sort of tradition, but I think we get so worried about turning away a young child who really wants to be saved that instead we end up baptizing a lot of kids who don't really get it and are just going along with what they see or what will make people happy. Then again, a lot of family members would throw a fit if the church refused to baptize their little 6 or 7 year old who "loves Jesus and wants to be saved", so it would be hard for a pastor to insist on adulthood or further understanding without offending the congregation. One compromise I have seen is churches requiring membership classes first, but most or more of a new member orientation than something like a confirmation or catechesis where people are expected to understand and affirm the church's beliefs and doctrine.

Not Kitty, but Baptists only except immersion following a profession of faith, so no sprinkling and no infant baptism. It is really common for people to be re-baptized if they feel like their first profession of faith was not genuine and sometimes if they had strayed from the faith for a time. Some fundamentalist Baptist churches will only recognize baptism in another Baptist church, a few to the point of requiring re-baptism for church membership if you do not have a baptismal certificate or letter to transfer membership from another Baptist church.

I guess it depends on your understanding of baptism. My denomination practices infant baptism and looks upon it as God's "adoption" of you, the time at which the Holy Spirit enters your life. Has nothing to do with "making a decision for Christ" or any of that stuff; it's not a believer's baptism. Thus, in my denomination, if you are baptized and never darken the doors of a church again, you still have the Holy Spirit in your life seeking to guide you, like it or not. I remember some of my Baptist friends making a big deal about their baptisms when we were in grade school, whereas I was less than a month old when I was baptized and don't remember anything about it. BUT! some of them had to get re-baptized later after "falling away." In my church once is all it ever takes.

The profession of faith comes later, when you're a teenager (usually) and get confirmed. Therein you make, as an adult, the promises your parents made for you in the Baptism rite. It just means you accept what they did and acknowledge that you're a child of God and that you now have responsibility in the church. But that personal responsibility is all it adds to the original baptism.

[Renting with Raggles]

Lillybee wrote:

If the Messiah was being produced, that might be something that they could see.

Yeah. Or some Bach chorales, or one of the Passions. But the Messiah's in English, so they'd probably relate a lot better.

That makes me sad. I can't imagine choosing my entertainment from some pre-approved list. It's not too different to living in North Korea.

[PennySycamore]

Someone asked a page or so back about the hat shop that the Duggars visited in London. It was some place called the Hectic Hat Hire. It was definitely NOT Philip Treacy's millinery salon.

Just the idea of hiring/renting hats is enough to make my head itch although they probably do something to sanitize the hats in between customers. Well, I hope so anyway. I also wonder how many women who would be going to Ascot or to an investiture at the Palace would really need to rent a hat. I'd think women of that class would buy a hat.

[thoughtful]

http://www.hevercastle.co.uk/water-maze-for-kids.aspx

Hope the link works!

Very cool (literally and figuratively!)

If you Google Hever Castle water maze and then click on videos, there are some adorable ones, full of giggling kids having a blast on the maze.

For adults, the challenge may be getting to the center dry -- for some cute children . . . not so much! :D

[2xx1xy1JD]

Re food:

I'll also admit that I know very little about English food, and my husband wouldn't even have any idea that "bangers and mash" refers to food. It has nothing to do with homeschooling - he wasn't homeschooled and had 13 years of post-secondary education. It's just that he's not English and didn't know that many people who were (and those that we do know tend to be Jewish, Muslim or Hindu, so bangers & mash wouldn't be something that they'd eat). Middle Eastern, Chinese, Japanese, French, Thai, Italian, Indian and Mexican are no problem - even if no one in the restaurant speaks English - but English food would be a challenge.

Being well-read also doesn't mean that you really know what a food is like, or how to pronounce it. There are plenty of words that I mispronounced for years, simply because I would read to myself and never had to say the words aloud to others.

I'll try to catch the Israel episode. We'll be happy to explain the food, down to the best location for shawarma.

[kunoichi66]

Of course, Boob tried to get a drink and ended up with milk all over his face.

Please, please, PLEASE tell me that Boob didn't do what I'm thinking he did.......

:crying-yellow: BOO HOO HOO....

[JenniferJuniper]

Re food:

I'll also admit that I know very little about English food, and my husband wouldn't even have any idea that "bangers and mash" refers to food. It has nothing to do with homeschooling - he wasn't homeschooled and had 13 years of post-secondary education.

The snarking on the Bangers and Mash had to do with the fact that the menu board correctly spelled "bangers" while the Duggar reading it prounced it as "bongers". Better than bonkers, I reckon.

I've been to England several times and never personally encountered bangers and mash, although I know about it from watching British TV shows. My 12 year old knew what they were because she's played a Nancy Drew PC game where the menu at Nancy's British hotel included Bangers and Mash, Pinky and Perky (Cockney slang for turkey), A Dog's Eye (Cockney slang for meat pie), and Loop de Loop, which I'm not sure about, but turned out to be soup when Nancy ordered it.

[Triplet3]

The snarking on the Bangers and Mash had to do with the fact that the menu board correctly spelled "bangers" while the Duggar reading it prounced it as "bongers". Better than bonkers, I reckon.

I've been to England several times and never personally encountered bangers and mash, although I know about it from watching British TV shows. My 12 year old knew what they were because she's played a Nancy Drew PC game where the menu at Nancy's British hotel included Bangers and Mash, Pinky and Perky (Cockney slang for turkey), A Dog's Eye (Cockney slang for meat pie), and Loop de Loop, which I'm not sure about, but turned out to be soup when Nancy ordered it.

Bangers and mash isn't very often called that anymore, to be honest; it's usually just called 'sausages and mash' or a variation of that. I've never heard of the cockney food names you list, so they must have passed out of use years ago. Hardly anyone, if any, says many of the stereotypical cockney terms anymore, and even when people do use rhyming slang, it's often in a shortened form. So for example, someone might ask you to 'use your loaf', meaning to use your head, because loaf of bread = head.

By the way, 'bangers' is slang for 'sausages' because of the way they spit when being fried or grilled.

[ladypuglover]

Someone asked a page or so back about the hat shop that the Duggars visited in London. It was some place called the Hectic Hat Hire. It was definitely NOT Philip Treacy's millinery salon.

Just the idea of hiring/renting hats is enough to make my head itch although they probably do something to sanitize the hats in between customers. Well, I hope so anyway. I also wonder how many women who would be going to Ascot or to an investiture at the Palace would really need to rent a hat. I'd think women of that class would buy a hat.

Hyacinth Bucket would rent a hat, you know, to keep up appearances. :lol:

[FuManchu]

Just the idea of hiring/renting hats is enough to make my head itch although they probably do something to sanitize the hats in between customers. Well, I hope so anyway. I also wonder how many women who would be going to Ascot or to an investiture at the Palace would really need to rent a hat. I'd think women of that class would buy a hat.

To be fair, a lot of people who go to Royal Ascot these days are pretty middle-class (and quite a few are verging on the chavesque), so they might well need to rent a hat. And when it comes to awards at the Palace, they hand them out to lots of people who've undertaken worthy causes, and who (like many public servants and charity workers) probably don't have a cupboard full of formal hats.

Whether those two sources are enough to keep a hat hire shop working is a matter for debate; I can never understand how they stay in business, but then I'm not really hat hire material.

[Mythicwings]

Hyacinth Bucket would rent a hat, you know, to keep up appearances. :lol:

:lol: Man, why couldn't the Duggars have been subjected to someone like that??? :lol: