Maxwells 59: On the Road Again

[Xan]

The pro-lifers that I know only seem to care about life before birth.  Once that child is born, it's every baby for himself.  And forget about considering the life of the mother, the health of the other children, or something as common as finally finances, jobs, and other obligations.  According to our fundies, the "needs" of the children have been met if they were allowed to be born.  When and if they get education, food, comfortable beds, etc. doesn't enter into it.

I think it should be illegal to get Viagra in Texas (or any other pro-life state) unless you have the explicit approval of the wife.  And no man over the age of let's say 55 or 60 should be able to buy it at all.  He's too old to be a father then so he doesn't need Viagra.  It's about time we got some equality in these decisions.

[theologygeek]

7 hours ago, Xan said:

And no man over the age of let's say 55 or 60 should be able to buy it at all.  He's too old to be a father then so he doesn't need Viagra. 

Oh boy.  Where to start?  I am speechless and offended for the over 55 crowd.  I will say that Viagra helps a man get it up.  How old are you? 

[SassyPants]

11 hours ago, theologygeek said:

Oh boy.  Where to start?  I am speechless and offended for the over 55 crowd.  I will say that Viagra helps a man get it up.  How old are you? 

I think that comment was highlighting what could be a tit for tat (albeit ridiculous) government intervention that would affect many men, and obviously anger many people who believe that sort of interference in a health care decision, by government, crosses a line.

[theologygeek]

53 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think that comment was highlighting what could be a tit for tat (albeit ridiculous) government intervention that would affect many men, and obviously anger many people who believe that sort of interference in a health care decision, by government, crosses a line.

I understand that, but Viagra affects women too.  The 55 and older crowd, myself included, like sex.  Can't get pregnant any more, so let the fun begin!  Society still, even in this day and age, has stereotypes about women that need to die already.  Women have sex for the men to enjoy, women who sleep around are sluts, women are supposed to shut up and make babies, women aren't supposed to desire sex...  Stereotypes are so ingrained in our heads, that even the most liberal woman will say "Well they should ban Viagra and see how men like it."  Women wouldn't like it either, but people don't think of that.  If a woman wants sex from her man, and he can't get it up without the pill, then he should take the pill for HER.  So SHE can get some.  I'm divorced and have no desire to remarry.  But I do like an occasional roll in the hay.  If a man I want to sleep with can't get it up without the pill, then take the pill-I'll wait for it to kick in.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  We have to kill the stereotypes around that because I know that I am not the only woman my age who wants sex from a man. 

[Xan]

14 minutes ago, theologygeek said:

We have to kill the stereotypes around that because I know that I am not the only woman my age who wants sex from a man. 

I understand that and the reality is that no one will ever outlaw Viagra at any age.  The point that I was making (clumsily) was that the government feels that they can control women's bodies.  Nobody ever says anything about controlling men's bodies.  If women are only to be considered as brood mares, then men should also only be medicated if they can contribute to the population.  Since men are in control, that will never happen.

The purpose of outlawing abortions and possibly eliminating birth control is about trying to control women.  It has very little to do with actual sex.

Edited March 12 by Xan

[Alisamer]

16 minutes ago, theologygeek said:

I understand that, but Viagra affects women too.  The 55 and older crowd, myself included, like sex.  Can't get pregnant any more, so let the fun begin!  Society still, even in this day and age, has stereotypes about women that need to die already.  Women have sex for the men to enjoy, women who sleep around are sluts, women are supposed to shut up and make babies, women aren't supposed to desire sex...  Stereotypes are so ingrained in our heads, that even the most liberal woman will say "Well they should ban Viagra and see how men like it."  Women wouldn't like it either, but people don't think of that.  If a woman wants sex from her man, and he can't get it up without the pill, then he should take the pill for HER.  So SHE can get some.  I'm divorced and have no desire to remarry.  But I do like an occasional roll in the hay.  If a man I want to sleep with can't get it up without the pill, then take the pill-I'll wait for it to kick in.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  We have to kill the stereotypes around that because I know that I am not the only woman my age who wants sex from a man. 

The thing is, the fundies here and many of those who are "pro life" are very, very anti-sex.

They're largely OK with sex within marriage, if procreation is a possibility, but they are also the sort who really really would like to ban birth control as well, they just know that's a teeny step too far so they're having to come at it sideways. Although many of them believe that chemical birth control of any sort IS actually an abortion. At least a potential one. 

Just listen to the "pro-life" arguments about why abortion should be illegal - "she should have kept her legs closed" is a big one that comes up. Sometimes phrased as "they know how to prevent that." or "don't have sex if you don't want a baby." AND they are very often against any exceptions for rape, abuse, etc. *

An unwanted pregnancy, to them, is appropriate punishment for having sex outside of marriage, or without the intention of creating a child. For the woman, of course, the man has a much easier time escaping any responsibility. 

So if they believe sex without the possibility of a child is something deserving of punishment, then of course Viagra should - in their logic - be just as illegal as abortion or birth control, unless it's necessary for the creation of a child. 

I think it's a valuable thing to consider. If sex for pleasure is "sinful" then so is Viagra for those no seeking to conceive. If they think all sex should be open to the possibility of conception, then they are, by their own logic, against sex for people who are unable to conceive. (Of course, they'll say "oh, but God can work miracles..." to get around that.) And if sex for pleasure is NOT sinful, then neither should be birth control to prevent conception.

 

* I like to point out that literally everyone I know in person who is "pro-life" has a very very limited view of what abortion actually is. Despite the law having no such provisions, they somehow believe that if it's medically necessary, it's not an abortion. If it's to save the mother's life, it's not an abortion. If the fetus is non-viable, it's not an abortion. If it's an incomplete but inevitable miscarriage (even if the fetal heart hasn't yet stopped), the procedure to remove the products of conception is not an abortion. Same exact procedure or medications, but somehow that doesn't "count."

To them, an abortion is an elective procedure to end a pregnancy, done by a woman who should have had sense enough to keep her legs closed or just accepted her fate and kept the baby. Anything else "doesn't count" in their minds, and they will not believe that the law is broader than that. Until, of course, it affects them directly. Then they're SHOCKED that hey wait, what they need is, in fact, actually an abortion! 

[SassyPants]

Also not considered in the equation are the BC failures, and they do happen. So, what about those couples who were responsible, but still end up conceiving? This would be similar to denying healthcare to people who participate in some riskier sports and have an accident-

[Bethy]

Maybe news, but probably not. Just did a baby registry search for Sarah Bollinger as I do sometimes when I'm bored. One turned up in Shawnee, KS! But according to a MyLife search, there's a Sarah Bollinger who's 36 and lives in Shawnee. So it's more likely her. Also, when Sarah got engaged, one of her registries was in the name "Sarah Sarah" so even if she was pregnant, she's probably flying under the radar.

In any case, that's the registry I found, and the additional info I was able to turn up about it.

[theologygeek]

41 minutes ago, Bethy said:

Maybe news, but probably not. Just did a baby registry search for Sarah Bollinger as I do sometimes when I'm bored. One turned up in Shawnee, KS! But according to a MyLife search, there's a Sarah Bollinger who's 36 and lives in Shawnee. So it's more likely her. Also, when Sarah got engaged, one of her registries was in the name "Sarah Sarah" so even if she was pregnant, she's probably flying under the radar.

In any case, that's the registry I found, and the additional info I was able to turn up about it.

I don't think it's her.  There's a Sarah Bollinger in KS with a boat load of kids.  I've seen her in my searches.

 

 

Edited March 17 by theologygeek

[theologygeek]

Check this out.  Use the find feature to get down to Elissa's letter.  Seems like she has had some health issues.  http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2022/b2021_22/committees/ctte_s_phw_1/documents/testimony/20220126_22.pdf 

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, theologygeek said:

Check this out.  Use the find feature to get down to Elissa's letter.  Seems like she has had some health issues.  http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2022/b2021_22/committees/ctte_s_phw_1/documents/testimony/20220126_22.pdf 

The file won't open for me. Can you summarize?

[mango_fandango]

1 hour ago, marmalade said:

The file won't open for me. Can you summarize?

She has a thyroid issue and Lyme disease as well as other autoimmune disorders. Two of her pregnancies were difficult and she needed progesterone. 

[theologygeek]

6 hours ago, marmalade said:

The file won't open for me. Can you summarize?

here you go

January 23, 2022
Dear Chairman Hilderbrand and Distinguished Members of the Senate Public Health and
Welfare Committee:
I am in favor of the bill which will protect Doctors, PAs, NPs, Pharmacists, etc. from having their
hospital privileges revoked, and/or their licenses to practice revoked, and/or their national board
certifications revoked for actions such as treating Covid-19 patients with safe, effective drugs
(Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, etc.) early in the disease to prevent severe disease,
hospitalization, and death.
I have personally benefited from being under the direct care of an MD who treated my thyroid
condition and monitored my progesterone during two pregnancies. During the time she was
treating my thyroid condition, I received T3 thyroid hormone, which took me from languishing on
the couch to being the vibrant mother and caregiver of 3 that I needed to be. My doctor also
personally monitored my progesterone levels throughout my 2 pregnancies. My progesterone
was low, and the lives of my unborn children were at risk. With her prescription of progesterone
and diligent monitoring of my dosage, I had the peace of mind that my pregnancies were more
likely to get to full term without pre-term labor or worse, pre-term babies. I am happy to say both
children were full term!
I also recently received a compounded Ivermectin prescription from the MD that is treating my
Lyme disease and various auto immune diseases. I was then able to start taking a dose of
ivermectin that was directly related to my weight immediately after a positive Covid test. Though
I was quite sick for 2 weeks because of my autoimmune conditions, my blood oxygen never
dipped below 97 percent, and I am recovering well. I am grateful for the level of personal care
that I received from this MD, and the fact that I had access to this drug that has been shown to
prevent severe Covid, hospitalization, and death.
Thank you for listening to my experience, and to the voice of the people of Kansas.
Respectfully,
Elissa Maxwell
Olathe, KS
Senate District 78

[JermajestyDuggar]

59 minutes ago, theologygeek said:

here you go

January 23, 2022
Dear Chairman Hilderbrand and Distinguished Members of the Senate Public Health and
Welfare Committee:
I am in favor of the bill which will protect Doctors, PAs, NPs, Pharmacists, etc. from having their
hospital privileges revoked, and/or their licenses to practice revoked, and/or their national board
certifications revoked for actions such as treating Covid-19 patients with safe, effective drugs
(Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, etc.) early in the disease to prevent severe disease,
hospitalization, and death.
I have personally benefited from being under the direct care of an MD who treated my thyroid
condition and monitored my progesterone during two pregnancies. During the time she was
treating my thyroid condition, I received T3 thyroid hormone, which took me from languishing on
the couch to being the vibrant mother and caregiver of 3 that I needed to be. My doctor also
personally monitored my progesterone levels throughout my 2 pregnancies. My progesterone
was low, and the lives of my unborn children were at risk. With her prescription of progesterone
and diligent monitoring of my dosage, I had the peace of mind that my pregnancies were more
likely to get to full term without pre-term labor or worse, pre-term babies. I am happy to say both
children were full term!
I also recently received a compounded Ivermectin prescription from the MD that is treating my
Lyme disease and various auto immune diseases. I was then able to start taking a dose of
ivermectin that was directly related to my weight immediately after a positive Covid test. Though
I was quite sick for 2 weeks because of my autoimmune conditions, my blood oxygen never
dipped below 97 percent, and I am recovering well. I am grateful for the level of personal care
that I received from this MD, and the fact that I had access to this drug that has been shown to
prevent severe Covid, hospitalization, and death.
Thank you for listening to my experience, and to the voice of the people of Kansas.
Respectfully,
Elissa Maxwell
Olathe, KS
Senate District 78

What is it with these people and ivermectin? They are obsessed with it. When it’s been shown to have zero benefits when given to Covid patients.

[Xan]

The T3 thyroid hormone and progesterone are approved for medical usage for these particular conditions.  Comparing them to Ivermectin is ridiculous.  So the doctor didn't prescribe worm medicine for everything?  Hardly a ringing endorsement.

[hoipolloi]

Did that bill pass? Canʻt tell from the KS leg website. In any case, there sure were a lot of nutwad testimonies in support.

Note to self: avoid getting medical care in KS. 

 

[SPHASH]

So Elissa has Lyme Disease and Autoimmune disease.  That explains why they didn't go to Jesse's wedding in 2020 and possibly why they only have three kids.

Also two of Elissa's pregnancies were difficult yet she still home birthed?  

Edited March 18 by SPHASH

[Bethy]

8 hours ago, SPHASH said:

So Elissa has Lyme Disease and Autoimmune disease.  That explains why they didn't go to Jesse's wedding in 2020 and possibly why they only have three kids.

Also two of Elissa's pregnancies were difficult yet she still home birthed?  

Not really surprising. For a lot of fundies, homebirths are the goal because they're SUPPOSED to suffer in childbirth, and being in a hospital might make them cave and get the evil epidural. (There was a young fundie wife in probably 2010 who wrote a blog post saying God designed suffering in childbirth as part of the curse on women for eating the forbidden fruit in the garden of eden, and that if you shortcut that suffering by getting pain meds in labor, he'll make you have pain and suffering somewhere else in your life to make up for it. She scrubbed it shortly after. No idea who it was.)

Plus, homebirths are cheaper. 

[Alisamer]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:19 AM, Xan said:

The T3 thyroid hormone and progesterone are approved for medical usage for these particular conditions.  Comparing them to Ivermectin is ridiculous.  So the doctor didn't prescribe worm medicine for everything?  Hardly a ringing endorsement.

So if I'm reading this letter right, she's saying "since my doctor gave me tested, known to be effective, actual medicines in these cases, then also gave me Ivermectin for Covid, I oppose this bill." Which is dumb. I bet she begged for the Ivermectin, and the doc relunctantly gave in. Or else she doctor shopped until they found one willing to prescribe the stuff.

I would not be the slightest bit surprised to find out that a number of MDs have a code word they put on the Ivermectin prescription that goes to the pharmacy, that the pharmacist understands as "This patient is a loon, give them some sugar pills or something and tell them it's compounded Ivermectin so they'll quit pestering me about it."

[Melissa1977]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:47 AM, SPHASH said:

Also two of Elissa's pregnancies were difficult yet she still home birthed

Did she homebirthed the 3 kids? Joe and Elissa were very private with #1 and #2, and by the time #3 came, they were basically out of social media. Did they posted about homebirths?

[FiveAcres]

19 hours ago, Alisamer said:

So if I'm reading this letter right, she's saying "since my doctor gave me tested, known to be effective, actual medicines in these cases, then also gave me Ivermectin for Covid, I oppose this bill." Which is dumb. I bet she begged for the Ivermectin, and the doc relunctantly gave in. Or else she doctor shopped until they found one willing to prescribe the stuff.

I would not be the slightest bit surprised to find out that a number of MDs have a code word they put on the Ivermectin prescription that goes to the pharmacy, that the pharmacist understands as "This patient is a loon, give them some sugar pills or something and tell them it's compounded Ivermectin so they'll quit pestering me about it."

I think this would be grounds for removing the licenses of the prescribing doctor as well as the pharmacist. Modern medical ethics frowns heavily on not telling patients the truth.

I absolutely believe that doctor shopping was involved. (Colorado Springs has several "clinics" with medical professionals that are willing to prescribe just about anything based on their advertisements.)

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, FiveAcres said:

I think this would be grounds for removing the licenses of the prescribing doctor as well as the pharmacist. Modern medical ethics frowns heavily on not telling patients the truth.

Oh for sure. I bet it's happened, though. Probably someplace smaller and more rural, though. 

I do agree it was most likely doctor shopping until they found one willing to prescribe whatever they asked for. Hopefully the doctor they landed on has just enough ethics to be careful about dosages and such so that the useless medicine at least doesn't cause harm by itself.

[SPHASH]

On 3/20/2024 at 9:25 AM, Alisamer said:

Oh for sure. I bet it's happened, though. Probably someplace smaller and more rural, though. 

I do agree it was most likely doctor shopping until they found one willing to prescribe whatever they asked for. Hopefully the doctor they landed on has just enough ethics to be careful about dosages and such so that the useless medicine at least doesn't cause harm by itself.

I bet Chelsy encouraged her to take worm medicine considering how anti Vax anti mask her family is.

Edited March 23 by SPHASH

[Maggie Mae]

On 3/17/2024 at 11:41 AM, hoipolloi said:

Did that bill pass? Canʻt tell from the KS leg website. In any case, there sure were a lot of nutwad testimonies in support.

Note to self: avoid getting medical care in KS. 

 

It doesn't have the typical name of HB # or SB # - I can't tell either. I even looked for - maybe a resolution? IDK Kansas Leg stuff though. 

[HoneyBunny]

Just popping back on here. I mentioned, when we were discussing Anna Marie’s pregnancy after breast cancer, that popular travel YouTubers Eamon and Bec were pregnant when she had barely started re-growing her hair after chemo for breast cancer. They just posted an update video. Their daughter is five months old and a doll, but Bec was diagnosed with Stage 4 breast cancer before she even delivered the baby (early, via c-section, so she could start treatment ASAP).  It’s not the outcome anyone was hoping for.
 

Anna Marie and Chris are playing with fire, especially if her breast cancer was hormone positive (I’m not sure we ever knew if it was or not). I truly, truly hope they don’t attempt another pregnancy. Her children who are already here need a mother more than a sibling.