Harry & Meghan 17: St Meghan's Hagiography

[treehugger]

I think it’s pretty well established by now that the BRF can be pretty toxic as far as being a family goes, but I read things about reconciliation with H&M, and it does seem to favour Harry and Meghan’s side.  I’m not so sure that the family wants reconciliation with them, and not just because the BRF is toxic and dysfunctional, but because I haven’t seen any proof that Harry isn’t just as toxic and dysfunctional as the rest. 
 

I was a big fan of Harry and Meghan at first, my daughters and I got all dressed up to watch their wedding at 6 am (time change and all) and I was super sympathetic to their wanting to leave and start their own life away from it all.  But I’ve soured on them a lot over the past couple years.  They’ve squandered a lot of goodwill, and I don’t think I can blame Harry’s family for that. It’s all them now. 
 

There’s talk about going scorched earth, and I think Harry did that with his family.  But he wasn’t a saint in the process, and I think he caused as much hurt as he received, and I don’t actually blame his family for wanting to keep him at a distance now.  I would keep him at a distance also, if only to protect my own privacy and mental health. 

Edited February 8 by treehugger

[tabitha2]

Anyone who sells private family conversations to talk show hosts is shady AF and anyone who thinks he is being clever making fun of his brothers hair loss to the media is a dumb ass. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I think, which matters not at all, that Harry seems to have serious mental health issues. He seems to have done these interviews and the book with the expectation that it would make his family and the BRF as a whole suddenly go "oh man, sorry harry, we didn't realize, come on back, we love you."

I have a hard time imaging a well adjusted person doing something so...foolish? innocent?

He's demonstrated some impulsive behaviors  - but planning an interview, netflix thing, and writing out a whole book. There's many many time he could have said "hmm...is this a good idea?" and at no point apparently did he think that as he has continued to from one to the next. I think we're way past my mom died trauma or I didn't have much choice in my life or whatever. This is somebody so dysfunctional he's running his whole life off the rails, despite many chances to stop, under the idea that his family should be nicer to him or something.

My family is shit. Many of them have individually admitted that as a whole they all treat each other badly. That my parent in particular are very difficult people with severe issues. But none have ever showed any real remorse about it or any intention to change. While I'd like that to magically happen....I don't actually believe for 1 second that they will. And I certainly don't think it would if I was mean about it. I'm pretty sure if I won a lottery they'd be ***real**** friendly all of a sudden though. 

So I dunno about Harry. I really think Harry is more responsible for the situation than Meghan. Meghan didn't write a whole book dissing his family in very specific and petty details that book is where we went from rumors, misunderstandings, things that could be interpreted both ways - to just straight up - Harry wtf you doing man??

[tabitha2]

There are hereditary behavioral and mental issues going back many hundreds of years on both sides of his family. As Charles and Diana are Distant cousins of course it pertains to Harry even more.   It is something to think about anyway. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

Harry has more resources than many of us can even dream of, if he’s mentally ill he is well equips to get help. 

[just_ordinary]

On 2/9/2024 at 1:43 AM, tabitha2 said:

There are hereditary behavioral and mental issues going back many hundreds of years on both sides of his family. As Charles and Diana are Distant cousins of course it pertains to Harry even more.   It is something to think about anyway. 

I think if we look back in our own family trees we would find just as much issues. Frankly, the world has always been cruel to the ones that didn’t adapt well or are faced with not the norm . The only fact we see so much in the RFamilies or Aristocracy is because they were privileged and that, to a certain degree, shielded the mentally or physically struggling individuals in those families. Their privilege is also the reason we know about them at all. Most people simply can’t go back that far. It becomes a guessing game real quick after the 1800 if you even get that far. If you were ordinary you also had to be literate or important to be write or be written about/get painted or mentioned in chronicles. Church records are your best bet. Surnames and first names changed frequently when people moved. Be it spelling mistakes, bad copying from maybe hard to read material or because at one point spoken language overtakes. Horrible handwriting, the evolution of handwriting and language are also part of the equation. As well as the possibility of the real material being destroyed. This source material is a PIA whenever you study those periods. That’s why I always giggle when people are so sure they are related to Comtess XYZ but have never employed a real genealogist. Because having someone to travel to France and actually check those records is crazy expensive. Databases with scans are good by also not free from a lot of errors.
Back to topic: So having such cases in the family will be forgotten or made invisible really easily. Same for babies out of wedlock and whatnot. If anything people with not the norm conditions are treated better and are more visible even if not from a privileged family and I think babies out of wedlock are probably at a much lower rate than 150 years ago. And marrying a distant cousin was also not that unusual. Ordinary people did have the means to travel far if at all.  

[Father Son Holy Goat]

In my family I can trace mental illness/abuse on my mom’s side to 1928 and on my dad’s to 1880. In both cases the trail just runs cold but I highly doubt it just sprang up then. We’ve been doing this to ourselves and each other for a long time. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Harry could have gotten therapy all along and maybe he has. Being able to afford it doesn't mean you do it. If he has - seems like he needs more. He seems so clueless about the repercussions of his actions and what is /is not appropriate.  He *knows* that anything he says/does is going to be repeated again and again. Recorded and spread around and yet still says and does these things. It strikes me that he can't not do it.  

[louisa05]

On 2/6/2024 at 7:43 PM, SoSoNosy said:

My personal observations of Meghan:  She seemed to flaunt going against what were supposedly the Queen's wishes.   She never wore hose/tights, she immediately wore off-the-shoulder clothes, she wore wedge heeled shoes, and that's the three that I immediately think of.   She just didn't seem to want to even try to fit.

I'm not a fan of Meghan, but I have to defend her here. There were not and are not rules about clothing. The wedge heeled shoe thing was just the press/internet taking a swipe at Catherine who seems to like that style--particularly when in less formal settings where she's walking on grass, beaches, etc... Tights are not required. And the Queen herself appeared in many strapless and off the shoulder styles in her younger years. 

Years ago, Princess Margaret gave an interview and confirmed that there are not any rules for royal dressing. She did share "unwritten rules" which were all very practical things such as avoiding fabrics that wrinkle or crush easily (granted this one does seem to remain a struggle for Meghan), wearing layers because of often being both inside and outside at engagements, and paying attention to things looking good from all angles. The idea that the late Queen made rules for clothing and monitored it is absolutely absurd. She certainly did not have time to be the wardrobe police. 

[TN-peach]

On 2/10/2024 at 11:20 PM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Harry could have gotten therapy all along and maybe he has. Being able to afford it doesn't mean you do it. If he has - seems like he needs more. He seems so clueless about the repercussions of his actions and what is /is not appropriate.  He *knows* that anything he says/does is going to be repeated again and again. Recorded and spread around and yet still says and does these things. It strikes me that he can't not do it.  

I think what bothers me is that he credited William and Catherine early on with urging him to get therapy for Diana's death and his anger with that. Then, he seemed to deny he ever had therapy or was offered therapy.  Just like the contradiction of having his therapist on speed dial but not doing anything when your wife says she wants to die.  It is all one big contradiction.   

[VGL]

5 hours ago, TN-peach said:

I think what bothers me is that he credited William and Catherine early on with urging him to get therapy for Diana's death and his anger with that. Then, he seemed to deny he ever had therapy or was offered therapy.  Just like the contradiction of having his therapist on speed dial but not doing anything when your wife says she wants to die.  It is all one big contradiction.   

I wonder why he (or she) didn't contact her OB or midwife, whoever was providing her prenatal care.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:20 AM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Harry could have gotten therapy all along and maybe he has. Being able to afford it doesn't mean you do it. If he has - seems like he needs more. He seems so clueless about the repercussions of his actions and what is /is not appropriate.  He *knows* that anything he says/does is going to be repeated again and again. Recorded and spread around and yet still says and does these things. It strikes me that he can't not do it.  

I don’t have a ton of patience with people who have the resources but refuse to work on themselves. I understand it’s uncomfortable and hard, but I am tirelessly bettering myself with very few resources. 

[Mrs Ms]

4 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I don’t have a ton of patience with people who have the resources but refuse to work on themselves. I understand it’s uncomfortable and hard, but I am tirelessly bettering myself with very few resources. 

At this stage I hope he isn’t doing therapy or that he has an utterly useless therapist, because it would be awful if he is where he is today after putting in a tonne of effort with a competent therapist! 

Edited February 13 by Mrs Ms
Riffles

[TN-peach]

18 hours ago, VGL said:

I wonder why he (or she) didn't contact her OB or midwife, whoever was providing her prenatal care.

Well my completely cynical take is that she didn't want ACTUAL help, she wanted Harry's attention. Also, I think it is such a head game for Harry that he thinks he has to save Meghan because he didn't/couldn't save his mother and Meghan plays right into it.  She was a grown ass woman at this point, she knew how to contact doctors, nurses.  She could have called her mom and her mom could have gotten her name if Meghan didn't want to talk to someone associated with the Royal Family.  Meghan still had contacts in Hollywood - lord knows there are a lot of therapist in Hollywood that can keep secrets - she could have reached out to them.  Not to mention her doctor, nurse, midwife that she personally selected for her pregnancy because she didn't want the "royal" doctor. 

And non-cyncial take -she was serious - if she couldn't do it, then Harry sure as hell should have.  He has NO EXCUSE. NONE.  He should have been on the phone with his therapist to get a referral for his wife.  He should have called her doctor/midwife.  Instead he basically went about business as usual but built up his anger at the Royal Family and the press because they didn't help her.  Neither did he.  If I was Meghan, I would have been pissed at my husband.  I said I needed help and you did nothing but get mad.

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, TN-peach said:

Well my completely cynical take is that she didn't want ACTUAL help, she wanted Harry's attention. Also, I think it is such a head game for Harry that he thinks he has to save Meghan because he didn't/couldn't save his mother and Meghan plays right into it.  She was a grown ass woman at this point, she knew how to contact doctors, nurses.  She could have called her mom and her mom could have gotten her name if Meghan didn't want to talk to someone associated with the Royal Family.  Meghan still had contacts in Hollywood - lord knows there are a lot of therapist in Hollywood that can keep secrets - she could have reached out to them.  Not to mention her doctor, nurse, midwife that she personally selected for her pregnancy because she didn't want the "royal" doctor. 

And non-cyncial take -she was serious - if she couldn't do it, then Harry sure as hell should have.  He has NO EXCUSE. NONE.  He should have been on the phone with his therapist to get a referral for his wife.  He should have called her doctor/midwife.  Instead he basically went about business as usual but built up his anger at the Royal Family and the press because they didn't help her.  Neither did he.  If I was Meghan, I would have been pissed at my husband.  I said I needed help and you did nothing but get mad.

I wondered something similar when the interview from Africa came out when Meghan said “no one” asked how she was doing. It seemed to be a slam against the royal family but I was thinking, “Not your personal friends, not your mom? None of them were asking or checking on you?”

All of her husbands cousins and his SIL had their own busy lives, and Zara, Autumn, and Kate had their own children to care for, and it probably didn’t occur to them that an almost 40 year-old woman didn’t already have her own friend group (and she does have a living mother) to rely on or at least check-in on her.

My husband isn’t particularly close to any of his cousins. Therefore I have never once checked in on any of them after the birth of a child (and they’ve never checked on me). They live in different states, we’re barely acquaintances, and I operate on the assumption they have their own friends and close family just like I do. My own cousins are a different story. Does Meghan have any family she’s close to other than her mum?

[TN-peach]

55 minutes ago, DalmatianCat said:

I wondered something similar when the interview from Africa came out when Meghan said “no one” asked how she was doing. It seemed to be a slam against the royal family but I was thinking, “Not your personal friends, not your mom? None of them were asking or checking on you?”

All of her husbands cousins and his SIL had their own busy lives, and Zara, Autumn, and Kate had their own children to care for, and it probably didn’t occur to them that an almost 40 year-old woman didn’t already have her own friend group (and she does have a living mother) to rely on or at least check-in on her.

My husband isn’t particularly close to any of his cousins. Therefore I have never once checked in on any of them after the birth of a child (and they’ve never checked on me). They live in different states, we’re barely acquaintances, and I operate on the assumption they have their own friends and close family just like I do. My own cousins are a different story. Does Meghan have any family she’s close to other than her mum?

My mom is a retired labor and delivery nurse.  Every time she came over she basically gave me an informal evaluation. She asked me questions, she also double checked my legs (for blood clots).  She told my husband what in general to look for regarding PPD.  I was lucky I had a husband that cared, a mom that cared.  My husband was soooo much better at swaddling than I was, he intently listened to the nurses and their demonstration of how to do it.  I know that everyone is not as lucky as me.

As far as Meghan, the only person from her family she is close to is her mom.  At least that is the only one invited to the wedding. Clearly, she is not close to her father or her father's side (lawsuits).  But nothing is every really mentioned about her mom's side other than her mom. 

[tabitha2]

Oh Harry and Meghan! Y’all need to stop! they and their team are answering back to criticism and  are trying to claim Sussex is their surname and family name on  their new Website.

 

It’s actually Mountbatten-Windsor.  

 

 

 

 

 

[DalmatianCat]

5 hours ago, TN-peach said:

As far as Meghan, the only person from her family she is close to is her mom.  At least that is the only one invited to the wedding. Clearly, she is not close to her father or her father's side (lawsuits).  But nothing is every really mentioned about her mom's side other than her mom. 

Yeah, her dad’s side of the family has well-documented issues, but I’ve always been curious about her mom’s side. Was her mom an only child? Are there any cousins? Aunts, uncles? I get wanting privacy, but it is odd that her mom is just *it* as far as family goes. I know not everyone has a big family, but I can see the initial draw to Harry’s family if she thought they were closer than they were.

[tabitha2]

I say this honestly: don’t know if Meghan knows how to act in or react to a real family that is loyal, close and basically do love each other through all the various members scandals and bull  shit and dramatics ,Where it’s not totally about constantly screwing each other over about coming out on top and back biting.  Seems like she never had that at least enough to matter and that’s actually very sad. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I say this honestly: don’t know if Meghan knows how to act in or react to a real family that is loyal, close and basically do love each other through all the various members scandals and bull  shit and dramatics ,Where it’s not totally about constantly screwing each other over about coming out on top and back biting.  Seems like she never had that at least enough to matter and that’s actually very sad. 

And Harry doesn’t know how to act outside the Royal bubble. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Wow. you guys are harsh. I mean I guess it's possible she made up feeling suicidal for attention...but I think it's more likely that she actually felt suicidal and didn't even know what to do about it. She doesn't seem close to any family except - maybe - her mom. We don't really know how close she is with her mom. She had friends in CA but maybe she was well aware that they were superficial go out and party and meet people friends - not necessarily who you call across the globe if you're feeling trapped and hopeless. Also, I think I'd be mighty concerned about taking advantage for a story, particularly if you had friends who aren't friends from years and years ago. Not to mention I think a lot of women lose touch with friends as people move and have babies. Every friend I've had who had kids dropped out of my life and several specifically told me they didn't want to invite me over because I don't have kids. Meghan was/is an older mom. She may have been especially suffering from not having a peer group of women in the same situation and similar age and that's  before considering paparazzi and BRF norms. Also, I think there's an interview where Harry talks about asking within BRF about getting Meghan help and was told no. What exactly he tried and to what extent - who knows. but I really can't fault a family for not knowing what to do with a new baby, extensive travel, BRF bullshit, and some level of suicidal depression mixed together. 

[VGL]

In the Oprah interview, Harry said he was too ashamed to talk to his family about Meghan's suicidal thoughts.

[viii]

I'm not surprised. His family connections were already beginning to break apart by that point. William had already cautioned against marrying Meghan. Harry is paranoid at the best of times (it seems), and I wouldn't be surprised if he doubted that his family would even have Meghan's best interests at heart. 

@WatchingTheTireFireBurn I agree with you - I think people are far too harsh when it comes to Meghan's depression. I'll criticize both Harry and Meghan for a lot of things, but I won't on this one. For one thing, Meghan was severely depressed, to the point she wanted to take her own life. A lot of people who are at that point aren't thinking clearly and aren't reaching out for help. The answer to why she didn't talk to her doctor or a friend is obvious - SHE WAS DEPRESSED. Depressed people don't always seek out help. And again with Harry - he's paranoid and suspicious. Given his mother's mental health history, I'm not surprised he didn't know what to do either. The whole thing was a mess from the beginning. 

[DalmatianCat]

8 hours ago, VGL said:

In the Oprah interview, Harry said he was too ashamed to talk to his family about Meghan's suicidal thoughts.

He didn’t need to talk to his family…he needed to talk to a doctor.

[Mrs Ms]

Her not acting rational during a mental health crisis is a super shitty thing to rag on her for! 

And PLEASE can we agree to not doubt someone who says that they were suicidal depressed?

I really expected better from FJ, even when discussing an unpopular person!