Harry & Meghan 17: St Meghan's Hagiography

[nokidsmom]

On 1/22/2024 at 9:02 PM, treehugger said:

I haven’t got a lot of good to say about my husband’s family, my husband just doesn’t say much.  But, he has never been rude or disrespectful to his parents.  He has set excellent boundaries and somehow has managed to maintain them, but he it’s always kind about it.  He helps them out when he can. He still call his parents for their birthdays. He visits them for important things.  And I respect the hell out of him for that.  
I can’t help but feel that I wouldn’t have been as attracted to my husband as a person if he had gone scorched earth with his family, even though it would have been warranted, because that kind of angry, volatile character would have made me feel uncomfortable.  How a person treats their family says volumes about their character. You don’t have to put up with crap to be a decent person. 

This is exactly Mr. No and his family.   Over time, he learned to set boundaries that worked for him, he maintained contact on his terms and he was always kind about doing it.   He regularly called but limited his visits as in-person interactions were more problematic.   Both MIL and FIL have now passed and he has no regrets over what he did.   I always tell him that he was a good son, better than they deserved to be quite frank, but had he gone down the "scorched earth" road, it would have had a corrosive effect on his own character.   

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I did scorched earth and really it was the only option. I’m so happy I did, my mental health is so much better as a result. 

[Mrs Ms]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I did scorched earth and really it was the only option. I’m so happy I did, my mental health is so much better as a result. 

Some people can be shitty and still respect other peoples boundaries. Others are just shitty. That makes a big difference on how boundaries can be set. 
Of course there are the ones where anything less than scorched earth won’t work. You do you! Only you know what you needed to do!

[SoSoNosy]

One thing in Harry's book (that I have only read part of) was his story of Charles thanking Diana for 'his heir and his spare'; I have read ever since Harry's birth that Charles wanted a girl and was distressed that Harry was 1) a boy and 2) red haired.

 

[kpmom]

3 hours ago, SoSoNosy said:

One thing in Harry's book (that I have only read part of) was his story of Charles thanking Diana for 'his heir and his spare'; I have read ever since Harry's birth that Charles wanted a girl and was distressed that Harry was 1) a boy and 2) red haired.

 

I read that too. I think it was in that book she secretly co-wrote when she was still married. So, supposedly, it came straight from Diana. 
Although I’m sure she wasn’t interested in showing Charles in the best light, so who knows. 

[viii]

I think it’s well known that Charles wanted a daughter. I believe when Diana was pregnant he was quoted in several interviews wishing for a girl. I’ve never heard the red head thing, though. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

5 hours ago, viii said:

I think it’s well known that Charles wanted a daughter. I believe when Diana was pregnant he was quoted in several interviews wishing for a girl. I’ve never heard the red head thing, though. 

It’s from Diana: Her True Story. Diana said that when Harry was born, he said, “Oh, God, it’s a boy. And he has red hair.” 

[viii]

Is it any wonder that Harry has issues with his family? Like... damn. 

[tabitha2]

Most normal people I know would get a laugh out of their parents saying that. 

[prayawaythefundie]

If Charles said that, he certainly wasn’t the best father.

Diana sharing it in a book doesn‘t make her a great mother either.

[viii]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Most normal people I know would get a laugh out of their parents saying that. 

Most normal people know they're born because their parents wanted a certain amount of kids, or because they were a happy accident. Harry has known his entire life that he was born solely in case something happened to his brother, and was titled as the 'spare' by the media and his family. Harry is not most normal people, none of the royal family are. 

[tabitha2]

He was still loved and indulged by both his parents.  

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I mean who knows what emotion he was having when he said that (if he even said it *that* way) sensitive Diana - just after birth? could have misconstrued.  And I'm sure there's lots of people who are convinced it's one sex and are utterly surprised when it's not their gut feeling or even wish (especially before ultrasounds).  I don't think that makes him a bad dad.  Unfortunately, Diana had an agenda with putting out interviews and books, so it makes everything baseline not very trustworthy. 

I don't think I've encountered any interviews/statements from non-diana people about what charles was/is like as a dad. 

Harry reminds me of my mother a lot in some ways. My mother's father died when she was a young teen and even now 50 plus years later she talks about him like he was a saint. She only ever knew him as the weekend dad (parents divorced) who brought her presents and candy. He had 2 divorces in the 40s and 50s when it was very taboo....I have a feeling there was probably some things he wasn't so sainted about. But I'll never know what he was really like.

Diana continues to be very popular, I've never "got" it. To me it always seemed like PR/need for attention. It's sad to me that she publicized so much stuff about their family when the boys were very young. Having an all out PR war with their father had to have spilled over into their lives in so many ways that we regular people can't even imagine. I can't imagine checking the newspapers to see what people say about me. I was once interviewed for a very small town newspaper when I started a library job there. It was so embarrassing to me on every level. If it were now, that article would be on google search forever. just...no! no no no! So I realize that these people work on such a different level from me that it's probably hard for me to really understand them.

 

[DalmatianCat]

8 hours ago, viii said:

Most normal people know they're born because their parents wanted a certain amount of kids, or because they were a happy accident. Harry has known his entire life that he was born solely in case something happened to his brother, and was titled as the 'spare' by the media and his family. Harry is not most normal people, none of the royal family are. 

I don’t think it’s fair to say the “only” reason Harry was born was to be the “spare”. People have two children for all sorts of very valid reasons. Harry was also born in the modern era, his father had three siblings who could take over the monarchy if necessary. Harry has two cousins older than both him and William, and two who came along within 10 years of his birth. It’s not like it’s the 1500-1800s when infant mortality rates were high, there wasn’t good medical care, and there weren’t fertility treatments for barren Queen’s etc. Unlike all the twists and turns the English monarchy took for centuries, Elizabeth’s line would have been just fine without Harry being born. Thinking he was *only* born to be the spare sounds like something a 13 year-old would yell at their parents, but not something a reasonable adult would believe.

While I don’t think either Charles or Diana were great parents (loving your kids does not equal being good at parenting) I think they had two kids because they initially wanted multiple children. They may have even wanted three or more at one point but their marriage fell apart before that could happen.

[viii]

There is a whole host of reasons for them having two children but if you think the LoS wasn’t one of them, then I don’t know what to tell you, because it very much was. 

[AmazonGrace]

Harry and Meghan have two kids. 

I really can't see anything wrong with having two kids, even if you're Charles and Diana.

[viii]

Nobody is saying there’s anything wrong with having two kids. I’m sure there were a lot of reasons for Charles and Diana to both want two children. I’m saying, though, that the option to be one and done likely wasn’t on the table for them. I don’t know what’s so hard about that for people to understand. 

[tabitha2]

This is not the Middle Ages and no one half expected William to die in infancy or childhood and even if that had happened there were heirs aplenty. The House of Windsor was and is very secure succession wise. I honestly just think they both wanted a girl and were hoping for one as many many parents do. 

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

This is not the Middle Ages and no one half expected William to die in infancy or childhood and even if that had happened there were heirs aplenty. The House of Windsor was and is very secure succession wise. I honestly just think they both wanted a girl and were hoping for one as many many parents do. 

Did Harry and Meghan every publicly say they were only going to have two children before it was announced that Lilibet was a girl? If they didn’t say anything before then, I’m guessing they might have tried for a third.

[tabitha2]

They said basically want to protect the planet so will only have two children. I guess a third Sussex child will lead to a Mad Max apocalyptic future  in their minds or something.  

[louisa05]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

This is not the Middle Ages and no one half expected William to die in infancy or childhood and even if that had happened there were heirs aplenty. The House of Windsor was and is very secure succession wise. I honestly just think they both wanted a girl and were hoping for one as many many parents do. 

Gender disappointment is not unusual. 

My aunt had six boys. When she died, her husband told us that they had the second three hoping  for a girl. Somehow none of those three is scarred or has needed to write a book about how unwanted they were. 

[tabitha2]

Having a smaller bedroom in a Palace than William was apparently enough to deeply traumatize And Damage Harry. He is a classic grievance collector and nurturer.  

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

They said basically want to protect the planet so will only have two children. I guess a third Sussex child will lead to a Mad Max apocalyptic future  in their minds or something.  

I know that’s what they said, but I can’t remember if they said that before they had kids, after Archie/before Lilibet, or after they were assured they were having one boy and one girl. 

[prayawaythefundie]

Both can be true: The RF was insensitive in making Harry feel he was less wanted than the heir or a sister to the heir and Harry is overly sensitive blaming all his perceived misery on being the spare.
 

And while it may be irrational to hate the favoured person (his brother) more than those who made the decision to favour him (family and monarchy as an institution), it‘s also not uncommon. 

[viii]

14 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I know that’s what they said, but I can’t remember if they said that before they had kids, after Archie/before Lilibet, or after they were assured they were having one boy and one girl. 

I googled it and Harry said in July 2019 they were only having two children max because of the environment. So Archie would have only been a couple months old.