Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, Laura2730 said:

Lori Voeller (ex-wife of Jim Voeller, Head of ATI, who ran off with his secretary leaving his wife and 9 children) is featured in the doc:

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This clip was so cringey. 

[Columbia]

An interesting breakdown of IBLP’s response to the documentary. 
 

 

[griffin]

I have watched episode 3 twice and am not seeing Jill R. Can someone tell me approximently when she appears? Is she in episode 2?

[Evil Feminist]

4 minutes ago, griffin said:

I have watched episode 3 twice and am not seeing Jill R. Can someone tell me approximently when she appears? Is she in episode 2?

I think she was in episode 4. Just a brief clip. But she looked TERRIBLE! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, griffin said:

I have watched episode 3 twice and am not seeing Jill R. Can someone tell me approximently when she appears? Is she in episode 2?

In episode 4, they touch on the next generation of fundies all over social media spreading their horrible beliefs. They show clips of Paul and Morgan, Mrs Midwest, and one short clip of Jill, looking very tired with smudged makeup, saying Christian women should dress modestly. 

[KWLand]

Thanks for the clarification on Paine.

[Caroline]

1 hour ago, Evil Feminist said:

I was not expecting anything about TeenPact.

My husband once worked with a young woman who was heavily into TeenPact and who had been homeschooled in an extreme religious home (highly unusual where we live because there just aren't a lot of hardcore fundamentalist churches). He said she was the most stand-offish and unpleasant person he's ever had to manage. She was positive she was better than everyone else and was probably the least effective worker they had. She's my daughter's age, and he couldn't help but compare this better-than-you-are homeschooled kid with our daughter who was public school educated and eons beyond that young woman in poise and just all around pleasantness and work ethic. The young woman is now working within the TeenPact organization as some kind of youth leader and he's lost touch with her. My husband has always known about my obsession with all things Fundamentalist Christian, but never dreamed he would encounter an example of it in his every day life. 

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, Evil Feminist said:

I was not expecting anything about TeenPact. I finished the last 2 episodes last night. I'm glad I broke it up. It was a pretty hard watch and I didn't grow up in IBLP/ATI. We were sort of fundie adjacent, but very isolated. The "every father a cult leader and every family an island" is very accurate for my family. I really was surprised to see so many clips from TeenPact promos, but it really ties in with the Christian nationalism. TeenPact was a big part of my life for several years and then CollegePlus, which they didn't mention at all. CPlus got a lot of publicity from the Duggar's endorsement and was largely staffed by young people who had grown up in IBLP/ATI or VF. I had been pretty sheltered from the greater fundie homeschool community and joining CPlus was eye opening to me. Part of what triggered my deconstruction. 

Oh goodness I completely forgot about College Plus! I remember hearing about it through a homeschooling support group circa 2008-2010. Would love to hear more of you perspective.

I remember being fascinated that a group could take something so hated (academia/higher education) and mine it for the credential and little else.

[Lista]

Is there any former JW here? I swear that religion is so much alike. JW is just wrapped up in a more pretty bow.   I shook after watching the documentary.  All day.  The whole thing could’ve been about any strict religion.  The obey shit even as an adult.  The whole thing.  I recently got dumped by a family member. Because I’m too worldly.  What? Sometimes I feel like I escaped that crap.  Then I get haunted. 

[feministxtian]

My stepdaughters are x-JW. One is doing well in life, she seems to have things sorted out (they've both been out for a little over 10 years). The other seems to still be floundering a bit in terms of beliefs and just life in general. The one who seems to have things sorted out went mainstream Christian...Baptist but without the bullshit. She's a pro-choice Democrat, is finishing a Master's degree, works in healthcare, and they have one child. I think for her, her faith is more personal, I mean, she and I agree on many political points. The other, she's still trying to figure out exactly who she is. 

Trying to get rid of that brainwashing is HARD! I mean, I was raised/educated nominal RC and there are still things I ponder over. But, a lot of my religious education focused on obeying the rules to avoid going to hell. 

[Antimony]

5 hours ago, Cam said:

I’ve now watched episode 2 and thought it was more hard hitting than the first. I’m still finding Jill’s conversations annoying for some reason. Her constant use of the work “like”, as in “like, we were supposed to, like, read the wisdom books and like, memorize them” bothers me. It’s as if she’s afraid to appear confident in what she says. By that, I mean she may have strong personal convictions but won’t project that in public. She still has to/wants to appear somewhat soft and compliant. She comes across as still very sheltered. But, I guess it’s good to see her as she really is.

These are, just as @JermajestyDuggar says, filler words and their use is perfectly normal. In this context, they might be considered a positive. The dislike of the use of "like" as a filler in society is also pretty well linked to misogyny. Men use different filler words, though not necessarily less, or they use "like" in a different way as a filler word. There are plenty of articles on this (x). They have nothing to do with confidence or compliance or being sheltered or not. 

Spoiler

Additionally, studies have shown that women are unfairly targeted for their use of filler words. While men and women use the same amount of fillers, the words they use differ. Bickford discussed how men commonly used filler words like “uh” and “um,” while women often used “like” and “sorry,” words that are often associated with the stereotype of a “valley girl accent.”  (x)

The issue of "like" specifically aside, filler words are a hallmark for any conversational speech and while they don't belong in prepared speech (because the speaker has thought about their speech ahead of time), Jill is having a conversation with the producer in these clips. The other positive here is that filler words are often used as a marker of authenticity and honesty. They don't make or break that analysis, but that is the cultural use of them for the listener in many cases. 

I think in the show, they've cut this in the new style where you can sometimes hear the producer's question because it helps give the audience-listener (distinct from the producer-listener) full context, but also because it provides a reminder to the audience that this is a conversation, not a prepared statement by Jill. When you get an edit that erases the presence of the producer entirely, those filler words will stand our more. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Antimony

[JermajestyDuggar]

When they were mentioning the old days of discovery health channel, I was so nostalgic. I used to love all the medical shows on discovery health in the late 90s early 2000s. And I liked TLC back then because it wasn’t just a bunch of train wreck reality shows. But I agree that the Duggar shows did bring in a lot of good ratings when the network was still pretty small. They were probably one of the first hit shows the channel had. Nowadays it’s the entire 90 Day Fiancé franchise that makes TLC their money. 

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, Laura2730 said:

Lori Voeller (ex-wife of Jim Voeller, Head of ATI, who ran off with his secretary leaving his wife and 9 children) is featured in the doc:

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So…at least she stopped at nine, given that she was so wildly abusive to #8? 
That info adds another level. Obviously beating a 14 month old for hours on end (then sharing that fact to an audience!) is incredibly fucked up. But now it seems like she was taking out marriage stressors on that little baby. 
Jebus. It’s like you keep waiting for the worst part, and never get there. It’s just so many layers of absolutely awful. 

[feministxtian]

18 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I’m still finding Jill’s conversations annoying for some reason. Her constant use of the work “like”, as in “like, we were supposed to, like, read the wisdom books and like, memorize them” bothers me. It’s as if she’s afraid to appear confident in what she says. By that, I mean she may have strong personal convictions but won’t project that in public. She still has to/wants to appear somewhat soft and compliant. She comes across as still very sheltered. But, I guess it’s good to see her as she really is.

Filler words are often used in conversations...they let your brain catch up to your mouth (or is it your mouth catch up to your brain). I've noticed that I don't use them a whole lot anymore but I think that's by virtue of having taught and presented on various subjects over the years. The best thing I EVER did though was to take a public speaking class. I strongly suggest everyone who does any sort of speaking take the class, you'll learn so much, not just about how to write/format a speech but how to present it. 

Jill never had that opportunity. I think she's probably quite intelligent but her fucking parents stunted that from the beginning, stripped her confidence in herself and tried to turn her into a breathing robot. I hope she eventually gets the opportunity to return to some sort of education. It doesn't matter if she ever makes a career out of any of it, but just for her own gratification. I think she's at the beginning of a journey out of that brainwashing. Let's see where she ends up in another 10 years. 

[apandaaries]

16 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

 What about the police and prison training!

Police in America are pretty stuck on "obey me or i shoot" did that come from.iblp?! From several places? I want to know more. Scary stuff and they glossed by it so quickly.

Those are some of the areas I’m really interested in: prison materials/visits/religious teachings, and military/local government infiltration.  I’m also intensely curious about the global outreach, who staffs these places, and where the money is coming from.

About American police: they were violent before IBLP. The 13th Amendment allowed slavery vis a vis incarceration, so early police would focus on Black people (crimes included being in public without evidence of a job, walking alongside train tracks, or existing in a public space during evening hours). Then the incarcerated would be “leased” to plantation-like households and forced to work incessantly, sometimes to death. If you were Black, you could kiss a family member goodbye for the day and not see them again for months, if ever. Andrew Jackson, the shitty President admired by another recent shitty President, would volunteer to go “slave-catching” for fun. 
All of this history has contributed to our current police force, along with embedded racism. Rodney King’s beating happened in the 90s, and was noteworthy because someone could record it —- not because it was unusual. We have more evidence with recordings of police brutality now, but it’s existed about as long as the country has. 
TL;DR breakdown— police have always been incentivized to pursue Black people, and we’ve never reworked police forces from the base upward. Their history is entwined with racism and violence, much like the rest of the USA. Sadly.

[Lista]

50 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

My stepdaughters are x-JW. One is doing well in life, she seems to have things sorted out (they've both been out for a little over 10 years). The other seems to still be floundering a bit in terms of beliefs and just life in general. The one who seems to have things sorted out went mainstream Christian...Baptist but without the bullshit. She's a pro-choice Democrat, is finishing a Master's degree, works in healthcare, and they have one child. I think for her, her faith is more personal, I mean, she and I agree on many political points. The other, she's still trying to figure out exactly who she is. 

Trying to get rid of that brainwashing is HARD! I mean, I was raised/educated nominal RC and there are still things I ponder over. But, a lot of my religious education focused on obeying the rules to avoid going to hell. 

Yes! About the going to hell part.  I drank the koolaid for a long time. Even after I left that part  behind me.  The religion follows.  I’ve never been one to please people. Then i find out my door therapist, I’m a major people pleaser? I’ve been in therapy for a long time. I was taught I’d fry if I did something bad.  I was 15 & held a secret birthday party & got busted.  I had to repent.  Tell the elders how wrong I was & would stop being worldly. 

 

I watched the part where people had to burn worldly stuff.  I did the same when I was 15. I felt so shamed for having teen magazines.  I felt shamed for having worldly clothes. 

That’s the kind of stuff not many can’t relate to. I was truly traumatized.  It’s one reason I cane here years ago. To see if there were others like me. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Jasmar]

3 hours ago, Evil Feminist said:

I was not expecting anything about TeenPact. I finished the last 2 episodes last night. I'm glad I broke it up. It was a pretty hard watch and I didn't grow up in IBLP/ATI. We were sort of fundie adjacent, but very isolated. The "every father a cult leader and every family an island" is very accurate for my family. I really was surprised to see so many clips from TeenPact promos, but it really ties in with the Christian nationalism. TeenPact was a big part of my life for several years and then CollegePlus, which they didn't mention at all. CPlus got a lot of publicity from the Duggar's endorsement and was largely staffed by young people who had grown up in IBLP/ATI or VF. I had been pretty sheltered from the greater fundie homeschool community and joining CPlus was eye opening to me. Part of what triggered my deconstruction. 

The teenpact stuff was hard for me, too. I desperately wanted my oldest daughter to do it. And she steadfastly refused, thank god! Something about watching all of that episode, so methodically laid out like that, hit me really hard, made me realize how close we came to, well evil, I guess. We also once went to observe a meeting of the local fundigelical debate team when she was about 12. We were both so creeped out that we ducked out when the dad who was showing us around wasn’t looking!

I hope you’re doing well. I know how exhausting deconstruction is.

[Hane]

Going OT to say I’m at my church’s Pride booth and a fundie with a bullhorn has planted himself in the middle of the road near us and is Bibling away at the top of his lungs. He’s surrounded by cops—and Pride folks chanting, “Please go home” and “Jesus loves everyone!”

[fundiewatch]

Watched the whole thing last night and Mr. FundieWatch was as enthralled as I was. He’s a novice, his response was “huh just like the Scientologists.” I think this documentary is going to help a lot of people. 

[kpmom]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When they were mentioning the old days of discovery health channel, I was so nostalgic. I used to love all the medical shows on discovery health in the late 90s early 2000s. And I liked TLC back then because it wasn’t just a bunch of train wreck reality shows. 

Years ago I used to watch A Wedding Story and A Baby Story on TLC. 
I liked those shows because they focused on real people who were going to get married, or have a baby whether TLC was there or not. 
I loved listening to everyone’s background stories of how they met, or how they decided to have a baby.  Couples and families of all cultures and backgrounds. 
It really  was the Learning Channel back then. 
 

Then they hit on the fundie ca$h cow and that was the end of that. 

[apandaaries]

Off topic: I had my teenager watch it with me. At the end, I wondered aloud why Gil Bates hadn’t been mentioned more, along with his IBLP connections and power. 
My kid: “Who?”

Me: “Gil Bates. They had a show, too, United Bates of America.”

My kid: “oh, I thought you meant Bill Gates. I was afraid you were having a stroke.”

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This clip was so cringey. 

Agreed. She was complaining about the behaviors of her 8 MONTH old son. WTF. Any behavior that a baby displays is developmentally appropriate. 

These folks didn’t need child “training” classes, they needed child development classes and maybe some respite care.

[Laura2730]

1 hour ago, apandaaries said:

So…at least she stopped at nine, given that she was so wildly abusive to #8? 
That info adds another level. Obviously beating a 14 month old for hours on end (then sharing that fact to an audience!) is incredibly fucked up. But now it seems like she was taking out marriage stressors on that little baby. 
Jebus. It’s like you keep waiting for the worst part, and never get there. It’s just so many layers of absolutely awful. 

Yeah Jim Voeller ended up marrying his secretary Amy and I believe they now have 5 kids who play in a band (for ref he, Lori and their 9 children also had a family band/orchestra before he cheated).

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Having now watched all episodes, I have to say I think the documentary was poorly constructed. The material, including the interviews, was good, but something seems to have gone wrong during the editing. It was disjointed, and as others have said it was hard to tell what the focus was. I knew 90% of the story and I still found it confusing at times. Had I watched it in one setting as a non-episodic film, I would have found it even more confusing.

I think someone wanted to make a Duggar film, and while that alone is a fascinating subject, they just didn't have enough people willing to talk. Jill didn't want to talk about everything and Amy and Deanna were always just outside the fray. Had just two sons been willing to spill - say more thoughtful ones like Jason and Josiah - it could have been a much more complete story about growing up Duggar. But this is probably not ever going to happen - at least not in their parents' lifetimes. $$$

IBLP and Gothard deserve their own film and this probably would have been a much easier film to make. But brief montages of various fundies (like the "modest", painted Jezebel-ish Jill Rod) just added to the feeling the film was rushed and disjointed.

With that said, any widespread attention these evil cultists get is a good thing. And the fact that Gothard and Jim Bob are furious makes me happy.    

[Loveday]

34 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

Off topic: I had my teenager watch it with me. At the end, I wondered aloud why Gil Bates hadn’t been mentioned more, along with his IBLP connections and power. 
My kid: “Who?”

Me: “Gil Bates. They had a show, too, United Bates of America.”

My kid: “oh, I thought you meant Bill Gates. I was afraid you were having a stroke.”

I have that same reaction every time I read 'Gil Bates.' I always have to read the name twice to make sure the poster isn't referencing that really, really rich guy. 🥴