Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[CanadianMamam]

22 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

My roommate was interested in watching it so we binged it last night. Both of us were screaming at the tv during the Holts' interviews because while Bobbye gets huge props for testifying against Josh, they still did absolutely nothing to protect the children when they initially heard about the abuse! I really wished they'd held Bobbye accountable and asked her what caused her to finally do something that would help all these years later. 

 

Maybe to spare Jill? Jill ssid she was prepared to testify if she had to but she didn't want to and thankfully they got what they needed from someone else. If Bobye testifying saved Jill that ordeal, then that is a good thing. Doesn't excuse everything else, but it is still a big thing. 

I think Jim Holt's comment of "and we were taken seriously' is also relevant and JB accusing the Holts of being jealous. I absolutely don't think the Holts did enough and Jim Holt is creepy AF but at the same time, I feel like until the cracks started forming, there wasn't much they could do and be taken seriously. I think that is the major message of this documentary, how much predators were protected by the institution.

Edited June 2, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[Columbia]

Did anybody see IBLP’s “response” to the documentary?

 

Spoiler

The most recent “documentary,” about IBLP, is a reflection of today’s culture. Its misleading and untruthful commentary mocks that which is good and moral in the most sensationalized way possible, both for shock value and for profit. Media story makers are anything but fair and balanced. They produce attractively packaged content to push an agenda, increase viewership, and pursue revenue. We do not want to minimize perspectives that individual people have experienced or expressed, but the creators of these types of “documentaries” have a different agenda than perhaps even those interviewed by them. One-sided and manipulative “journalistic” tactics offer no alternative perspectives for the viewers, and many good people are manipulated and used while others are maligned and attacked.

IBLP is neither a church nor a religion but rather a nondenominational Christian ministry that desires to introduce individuals to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and to help them apply Christian principles found in God’s Word. IBLP affirms and teaches historic Christianity.

For more than sixty years, these principles of God’s Word were taught through the Basic Seminar and other ministries. While selected sound bites of the Seminar teaching may be found on the internet, anyone who wants to know the full context of the teaching, can view the Basic Seminar, free of charge, at basicseminar.com. Several million people from around the world and from many different walks of life, churches, denominations, nationalities, and personal Christian experiences have been positively impacted by our ministry. 

Only the Bible can guide us in these and other areas of life, and IBLP exists to help believers on this journey. Our sincere desire is to help families discover the Lord Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, salvation, and sanctification only by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

The founder, Bill Gothard, resigned from IBLP in 2014 and is no longer associated with the IBLP ministry. The focus of this ministry is the Lord Jesus Christ and the practical truths found in Scripture, and not any single person or family. IBLP will always be about helping people find Christ and the timeless values of the Bible that bring hope and stability to each facet of life. Ultimately, every one of us will give an account to God for our lives and choices and those will be evaluated against the perfect standards of His Word. 

These attacks, as salacious and false as they may be, will cause many to search out our ministry and discover the truth for themselves. For this we are grateful because we know that our aim and our efforts are all designed to help people find God’s love, redemption, and their best lives.   

Sadly, we live in a day where this Gospel is not accepted readily but is, even vehemently, rejected. We affirm the Bible as our final authority, and sadly, this life-changing Book is also rejected by the world. Our desire is that the Person of Jesus Christ would be lifted up and that all men would be drawn to Him, as Jesus stated in John 12:32: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

 

[TN-peach]

24 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

My roommate was interested in watching it so we binged it last night. Both of us were screaming at the tv during the Holts' interviews because while Bobbye gets huge props for testifying against Josh, they still did absolutely nothing to protect the children when they initially heard about the abuse! I really wished they'd held Bobbye accountable and asked her what caused her to finally do something that would help all these years later. 

I also want to chime in about the boy on stage. It was horrific to watch! I would love to see an interview now of the boy (who's probably in his 30's now). It was traumatizing to watch! There was nothing to indicate anyone prepped him by telling him it was make-believe or that he wasn't really in trouble and that he was "just" being used as an example. And then when the man made him repeat the hug?!! Absolutely revolting!

 

From Bobbye's perspective - she is in this cult where her husband is the authority.  Once he told her that he and JimBob went to the police what else would she really do when she is in a high control cult? If she were to check with the police or Children's services about the status of the report, they would not comment on because there are minors involved.  She wouldn't know that nothing wasn't being done.  Then a few years later when Josh confesses to her that actual details of the abuse that is when she knows her daughter absolutely cannot marry Josh.  Meantime, Bobbye is still under the authority of her husband and who knows how he asserts that authority.  Bobbye saved her daughter but it did take her years to stand up for Jill.  Who knows the price she had to pay for that?! Bobbye is not perfect by no means but she was in high control cult and she was limited in what she could do.

 

Jim Holt on the other hand could have done more without a doubt.  He could have pressed the issue of why there wasn't a real police investigation. 

[CTRLZero]

8 hours ago, flowergirl said:

Jill Rodrigues was shown, too? Was she interviewed for the show or did they take a video she had already shared on social media?

At one point there was a montage of fundies on social media, spewing their various messages.  Jill Rodrigues was among the clips spouting off about something righteous, as she does.  They chose a clip where she looked really rough.  That’s one segment I may watch again.  I didn’t recognize any of the other people in the brief clips.  Does anyone know who the others were?  I’m assuming they weren’t just random, but it went by very quickly. 
PS - I did spot the pecan thief!

Edited June 2, 2023 by CTRLZero
PS fundie spotting.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I love the part where they said Gothard made a degree of no gossip. That Gothard says negative things must be handled privately. And then that’s EXACTLY what JB puts out about the documentary 😂 Way to let us know how thoroughly you still believe in Gothard’s teachings Jim Bob!

[TN-peach]

3 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Did anybody see IBLP’s “response” to the documentary?

 

  Hide contents

The most recent “documentary,” about IBLP, is a reflection of today’s culture. Its misleading and untruthful commentary mocks that which is good and moral in the most sensationalized way possible, both for shock value and for profit. Media story makers are anything but fair and balanced. They produce attractively packaged content to push an agenda, increase viewership, and pursue revenue. We do not want to minimize perspectives that individual people have experienced or expressed, but the creators of these types of “documentaries” have a different agenda than perhaps even those interviewed by them. One-sided and manipulative “journalistic” tactics offer no alternative perspectives for the viewers, and many good people are manipulated and used while others are maligned and attacked.

IBLP is neither a church nor a religion but rather a nondenominational Christian ministry that desires to introduce individuals to the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and to help them apply Christian principles found in God’s Word. IBLP affirms and teaches historic Christianity.

For more than sixty years, these principles of God’s Word were taught through the Basic Seminar and other ministries. While selected sound bites of the Seminar teaching may be found on the internet, anyone who wants to know the full context of the teaching, can view the Basic Seminar, free of charge, at basicseminar.com. Several million people from around the world and from many different walks of life, churches, denominations, nationalities, and personal Christian experiences have been positively impacted by our ministry. 

Only the Bible can guide us in these and other areas of life, and IBLP exists to help believers on this journey. Our sincere desire is to help families discover the Lord Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, salvation, and sanctification only by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

The founder, Bill Gothard, resigned from IBLP in 2014 and is no longer associated with the IBLP ministry. The focus of this ministry is the Lord Jesus Christ and the practical truths found in Scripture, and not any single person or family. IBLP will always be about helping people find Christ and the timeless values of the Bible that bring hope and stability to each facet of life. Ultimately, every one of us will give an account to God for our lives and choices and those will be evaluated against the perfect standards of His Word. 

These attacks, as salacious and false as they may be, will cause many to search out our ministry and discover the truth for themselves. For this we are grateful because we know that our aim and our efforts are all designed to help people find God’s love, redemption, and their best lives.   

Sadly, we live in a day where this Gospel is not accepted readily but is, even vehemently, rejected. We affirm the Bible as our final authority, and sadly, this life-changing Book is also rejected by the world. Our desire is that the Person of Jesus Christ would be lifted up and that all men would be drawn to Him, as Jesus stated in John 12:32: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”

 

Notice that they don't say "hey that's not what we teach.  we don't think victims should have to cry out in order for it be rape or bad things if you step out from under that umbrella. those are fake documents.  we don't believe in 'encouraging' children through rods."

[Zebedee]

5 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Does anyone know who the others were

I know Paul and Morgan Olliges were featured. I haven't seen it yet, but Reddit says they looked like idiots, especially as they were talking themselves up about being featured. Also, I believe Girl Defined (the Bairds) were shown briefly.

[TN-peach]

Just now, Zebedee said:

I know Paul and Morgan Olliges were featured. I haven't seen it yet, but Reddit says they looked like idiots, especially as they were talking themselves up about being featured. Also, I believe Girl Defined (the Bairds) were shown briefly.

I think Mrs. Midwest was briefly shown along with Britany Dawn.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Dutiful Duggar son Jed posted the birth announcement of his newest arrow on the day this documentary is released. You know JB told him to do that. We need a happy distraction Jed! 

Ok I have to talk About something Gothard related. So Jinger did her whole big book tour amongst the fundies. She was interviewed by Allie Beth Stuckey. Then she was interviewed by Girl Defined. What I found completely ridiculous was the Bairds talking major shit about Bill Gothard and basically making fun of him and his weird rules. Yet the Bairds seem to forget their family worshipped a man with very strange rules named Doug Phillips. They love to pretend like they never humped the leg of Doug Phillips and made a cringey video of many of them saying “thank you michelle” at the prompting of Dougie. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[CanadianMamam]

I really, really liked Tia Leving's contribution and what she had to say about Anna and about how hard it is to leave. I was crying as she talked about the night she left and how her ex-husband almost killed her and their children. I really enjoy her videos on instagram, I think they are a great resource for the dangers of IBLP and I think she added a lot here. Just that voice, that perspective from someone who had been on the inside and got out. 

[VooDooChild]

I'm watching the first episode now!

[Columbia]

15 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

Notice that they don't say "hey that's not what we teach.  we don't think victims should have to cry out in order for it be rape or bad things if you step out from under that umbrella. those are fake documents.  we don't believe in 'encouraging' children through rods."

The absolute silence about creepy Bill Gothard preying on the IBLP girls is my favorite part. 

[klein_roeschen]

6 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

I think Mrs. Midwest was briefly shown along with Britany Dawn.

Yes and for us Jill snarkers it's extra delicious. Because you see Mrs. Midwest in her incel wetdream made fully up glory, short talking head and next snipped is the rough looking Jill with sneared eyeliner. 

So, finished everything in almost on binge. While besides what Jill and Derrick told, nothing really new or shocking. But I really like that a lot of what we learned over the years is now put into 4 episodes and that a lot of others suffering under the IBLP and Gothard got a voice. And that the abuse and control going on inside the tth was given context for being shown side by side with the Gothard teachings.

[Laura2730]

The Mckims are featured briefly in the Shiny Happy People Amazon Prime doc! 

Spoiler

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m a bit annoyed that Jim Holt said something very quickly I the first episode that I wish was touched on more. He said TLC finished their huge house which was like $100,000 plus worth of work. I want to talk about how the Duggars would have lived if TLC had never come along. They would have been working on that house for years to come. Living in a half finished work zone. Expecting teenagers to do the work. Just like Bret Alan Smith expected his teenagers to do a shitload of work they had no experience in. And that’s why his 18 year old daughter ended up dead from a tree hitting her when she was helping to cut an entire tree down with little to no experience. 

[CanadianMamam]

I am done. That was super intense. Oof. I am very proud of Jill and of all the survivors who spoke their stories. 

I think the documentary painted a harrowing picture of abuse under the guise of religion but also outlined how terrifying the indoctrination and long-term plan is. 

[Antimony]

I'm mid-Ep 2 and I feel, well, freshly bad for Jill. Always have, but it's clear that she isn't necessarily done deconstructing but she is at some point in the process. 

What is interesting, though, and I wonder if she's here - there is a lot of talk of the "burden" she had and she understands very clearly that she was in a unique position. She even says it, that she was the only one who could fix it. That's a huge burden. It's also, and Jim Bob never wanted her to figure this out, a huge source of power. I think she's starting to recognize that. It's just an interesting dichotomy here. Burden or power.

[TN-peach]

1 minute ago, CanadianMamam said:

I am done. That was super intense. Oof. I am very proud of Jill and of all the survivors who spoke their stories. 

I think the documentary painted a harrowing picture of abuse under the guise of religion but also outlined how terrifying the indoctrination and long-term plan is. 

The parallels between IBLP and other cults like Scientology were so interesting to me.  The confessing. The victim blaming (see Danny Masterson trial and the Leah Remini series).  Cults are going to cult. 

[CanadianMamam]

To

16 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m a bit annoyed that Jim Holt said something very quickly I the first episode that I wish was touched on more. He said TLC finished their huge house which was like $100,000 plus worth of work. I want to talk about how the Duggars would have lived if TLC had never come along. They would have been working on that house for years to come. Living in a half finished work zone. Expecting teenagers to do the work. Just like Bret Alan Smith expected his teenagers to do a shitload of work they had no experience in. And that’s why his 18 year old daughter ended up dead from a tree hitting her when she was helping to cut an entire tree down with little to no experience. 

I do wish they had covered that angle more. 

The Bates aren't mentioned by name but when they talked about the outing of Gothard and made the comment wondering who is in charge of that $90 million or so now, my mind immediately went to Gil and the fact that the Bates live a life that is very different than it was before the first time they appeared on the Duggars show. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[Cheetah]

39 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

At one point there was a montage of fundies on social media, spewing their various messages.  Jill Rodrigues was among the clips spouting off about something righteous, as she does.  They chose a clip where she looked really rough.  That’s one segment I may watch again.  I didn’t recognize any of the other people in the brief clips.  Does anyone know who the others were?  I’m assuming they weren’t just random, but it went by very quickly. 
PS - I did spot the pecan thief!

I recognized Bethany and Kristen Baird (Girl Defined).  

Jill's quote:  "Christian women should dress *modestly*"  (of course she's wearing her usual 10 day supply of eyeliner).

[SassyPants]

My husband is leaving in about 10 minutes. He’s going on a business trip (convention) for 5 days. Everyone here knows what’s on my agenda while he is gone. PERFECT TIMING!

[Jackie3]

What Josh did was horrific and there is understandably a lot of focus on it.

However, it surprises me that there is little attention on what Amy revealed. She confirmed that the Duggar kids were being beaten (probably with PVC piping) on a regular basis. That's a crime, too!

If Michelle "encouraged" 2-3 kids per day, that's over 1000 beatings per year, beatings where a small child is whipped with a rod.

Michelle's been a parent for 35 years, let's say this has been going on for 30 years. That means the Duggar parents have administered 30,000 beatings. Call it 20,000 to be conservative (she's probably not doing it much nowadays). 

And how many of the 2nd gen Duggar parents are buying PVC pipe at the store? Are Mackynzie and Michael living with a mom who does these things? It's possible

What Josh did was evil but it happened maybe a couple dozen times. The physical abuse of those children was an ongoing, daily event that affected every one of them, every day. It deserves more attention in the documentary (admittedly, I have only seen the first episode and bits of the second).

Edited June 2, 2023 by Jackie3

[ALM7]

For those that don't have Amazon Prime, I noticed the documentary is streaming on Freevee, and it is free to view.

[I'm a few pages behind, so may be this was already mentioned]

[Giraffe]

2 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

Maybe to spare Jill? Jill ssid she was prepared to testify if she had to but she didn't want to and thankfully they got what they needed from someone else. If Bobye testifying saved Jill that ordeal, then that is a good thing. Doesn't excuse everything else, but it is still a big thing. 

I think Jim Holt's comment of "and we were taken seriously' is also relevant and JB accusing the Holts of being jealous. I absolutely don't think the Holts did enough and Jim Holt is creepy AF but at the same time, I feel like until the cracks started forming, there wasn't much they could do and be taken seriously. I think that is the major message of this documentary, how much predators were protected by the institution.

 

2 hours ago, TN-peach said:

From Bobbye's perspective - she is in this cult where her husband is the authority.  Once he told her that he and JimBob went to the police what else would she really do when she is in a high control cult? If she were to check with the police or Children's services about the status of the report, they would not comment on because there are minors involved.  She wouldn't know that nothing wasn't being done.  Then a few years later when Josh confesses to her that actual details of the abuse that is when she knows her daughter absolutely cannot marry Josh.  Meantime, Bobbye is still under the authority of her husband and who knows how he asserts that authority.  Bobbye saved her daughter but it did take her years to stand up for Jill.  Who knows the price she had to pay for that?! Bobbye is not perfect by no means but she was in high control cult and she was limited in what she could do.

 

Jim Holt on the other hand could have done more without a doubt.  He could have pressed the issue of why there wasn't a real police investigation. 

Thank you. I should’ve said Jim Holt. I understand Bobbye was still steeped in it at the time and yes, I should’ve said Jim. 
 

(I’ve had a rough morning finding out a lifelong family friend is dying from cancer and they can’t get his pain under control. I’m not thinking clearly)

Edited June 2, 2023 by Giraffe

[Antimony]

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

I'm mid-Ep 2 and I feel, well, freshly bad for Jill. Always have, but it's clear that she isn't necessarily done deconstructing but she is at some point in the process. 

What is interesting, though, and I wonder if she's here - there is a lot of talk of the "burden" she had and she understands very clearly that she was in a unique position. She even says it, that she was the only one who could fix it. That's a huge burden. It's also, and Jim Bob never wanted her to figure this out, a huge source of power. I think she's starting to recognize that. It's just an interesting dichotomy here. Burden or power.

Well, now I'm done, and it seems the documentarians and I agree that this dichotomy of burden and power is the theme, or, at least the theme they chose to end on as a variation on a "call to action" ending.