Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[ToriAmos]

41 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

CDD (Christian Domestic Discipline) was endorsed and practiced within the gothardite cult I was in almost twenty years ago.

I would awaken to the lady of the house (I was a live-in domestic) lying prostrate at the feet of her husband, saying, "Lord, my Lord..."

Ugh.

Really? My god. I had always assumed the CDD sites were kind of spoof/erotica rather than real. Given everything else that goes on, it shouldn't be a surprise but shit. Way to take the fun out of sex play.

[ladyicantxplain]

29 minutes ago, ToriAmos said:

Really? My god. I had always assumed the CDD sites were kind of spoof/erotica rather than real. Given everything else that goes on, it shouldn't be a surprise but shit. Way to take the fun out of sex play.

The crazy goes deep... Oh, the crazy goes so deep😉
 

[Evil Feminist]

4 hours ago, noseybutt said:

What’s interesting is that I don’t recall there ever being any kind of explicit connection between IBLP and College Plus advertised. It was marketed independently, of course.

From what I remember the Voeller family was shunned to some degree after Jim Voeller ran off with his secretary. I think Brad Voeller started CollegPlus after that happened. They did not advertise the connection, but if you knew, you knew. The Life Purpose Planning workbook was a big part of the program and promoted to help students discover their purpose while deciding on a degree. It was published by IBLP and written by Dewey Novotny. Dave Novotny,  Dewey's son, worked for CollegePlus.

[CanadianMamam]

1 hour ago, ladyicantxplain said:

 

What was the George Floyd comment, please?

 

In November of 2021, Carlin Bates Stewart  posted an Instagram story of family game night. It was being filmed for the show (!) And they were playing charades. She clearly didn't edit her clip well because you could hear one of her brothers (no one can be sure which one) yelling out "George Floyd" as Lawson and one of the youngest boys acted out shooting/being shot. 

Obviously there was fallout from the comment but the family never acknowledged it (I think Carlin apologized to a few people who DMed her but still mostly brushed it off). The show was cancelled about 6 weeks later. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

The weirdest thing about BUB being cancelled was that they had already filmed for another season, but didn’t show it. Why spend all that time and money filming to then just Chuck it. Something was a catalyst. It could have been the George Floyd comment. Or the fact that some of the Bateses went to the rally on Jan 6th but didn’t enter the building. Or it could be something else we don’t know about. 

[CanadianMamam]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The weirdest thing about BUB being cancelled was that they had already filmed for another season, but didn’t show it. Why spend all that time and money filming to then just Chuck it. Something was a catalyst. It could have been the George Floyd comment. Or the fact that some of the Bateses went to the rally on Jan 6th but didn’t enter the building. Or it could be something else we don’t know about. 

I feel like the show being cancelled is an argument that it was Nathan who said it (the debate is him or Trace). He and Esther skipped Carlin's Reveal the next day, but also their wedding was a good part of the season. It would have been really obvious if they had cut that out, plus a ton of wasted footage. 

 

[Giraffe]

I’m very curious why Gil’s current role wasn’t brought up in the documentary. While iblp isn’t the entity it was it’s still very much “alive” today, even with Gothard kicked out. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The weirdest thing about BUB being cancelled was that they had already filmed for another season, but didn’t show it. Why spend all that time and money filming to then just Chuck it. Something was a catalyst. It could have been the George Floyd comment. Or the fact that some of the Bateses went to the rally on Jan 6th but didn’t enter the building. Or it could be something else we don’t know about. 

I have never thought that comment was why it got cancelled. Let's be honest - many of the people who watch these shows are ok with that sort of "joke."  Especially the past few years.

I feel like there has to be something more blatantly disturbing that led UP to shelve a whole season of already filmed content. Or if UP didn't feel it was "ok" to air - why didn't they sell it to another network that is less discerning?

I mean the Bates and their confederate wall of fame was out on the internet all this time and that didn't seem to be a problem. 

I would *really* like to know for sure though. It's so weird that this documentary glossed over the Bates...UP cancelled the Bates for mysterious reasons....I'm not usually a conspiracy person but it seems to me there's something going on behind the scenes that we don't know yet.

[Bad Wolf]

I would have liked to see more in depth on ALERT. 

[indianabones]

I've always thought that the UP Network found out some piece of info about the Bates (on the same level as the Duggar molestations) that made them cut ties immediately. Not necessarily sexual abuse-related, but information that could put the network in a very bad light.

Whatever it is, I think that all the adult Bates children know about it and that's why none of them have ever commented on the show's cancellation. And why it took weeks for Kelly and Gil to release a statement- I think they were waiting to see if there would be a leak.

[Katzchen24]

I wonder if the documentary makers etc are waiting to see what the reception is like for the show and then based on that maybe move forward with another series. There's certainly a lot more material to cover, and if they were thinking of doing a follow up then the deliberate exclusion of the Bates and other themes within IBLP/ATI make sense. 

 

[clueliss]

Beth Moore has entered the conversation on this docuseries.  There's a whole thread of her responding to herself on this one.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by clueliss

[ladyicantxplain]

5 minutes ago, clueliss said:

Beth Moore has entered the conversation on this docuseries.

 

 

Okay, I am not a Christian anymore, but I did love Beth when I was in the SBC: did all her bible studies and I loved her so at the time.  Still love her for hating the patriarchy.

Just read the full conversation on twitter and I completely agree with her last paragraph:

 

Quote

Religious fundamentalism that holds girls & women responsible for protecting the boys & men from sin is a shelter for predators of the worst kind. - Beth Moore, Twitter

 

[eightykatie]

I really enjoyed the series.  Well, sometimes "enjoyed" is not the right word.

I cannot believe Jill & Jessa had their names on a show and WERE NOT PAID for it. That's just so disturbing!  All those birth episodes from all those women!  Craziness.  But yes, they'd get a house to live in while they were under the thumb of JimBob. Not much compensation considering how much he was making off of it.

I was also taken by the brief snipped where Amy said she was proud of Jill for hitting Josh when he was molesting her.  So much for Michelle's "the girls didn't even know it had happened"

[Cam]

I never did Beth Moore’s studies (I’m also no longer Christian) but know her whole story and would like to read all of her comments on the documentary. Do I need a Twitter account?

I finished part 4 of SHP. Some thoughts:

* Jill saying the phrase, “What the what??” It’s the closest we’ll ever hear her say the word fuck, and I am down with it.

* Loved that they showed JB’s walk of shame after the trial.

* Jill called JB out numerous times which I loved. She said the “family dynamic has shifted and not for the better.” I like the confirmation from her on that, the acknowledgment. Derick said he and Jill are “definitely on the outside of the family now.” 

* Amy says there’s a night and day difference in Jill now. I ignore Amy most of the time but that is a reputable statement from someone who’s had a front row seat to the circus.

* Jill doesn’t say the word therapy. She says, someone in IBLP usually “has to go thru help” to sort things out. It sounds like she still feels some stigma for doing so (which she shouldn’t.) I’m proud of and impressed with her for getting the help she needed.

* Jill also said her “parents” signed contracts for the kids even when they became adults, so this included Michelle. But she makes it sound like it was just a matter of TLC updating the kids’ ages and all was smoothed over. She never really calls out Michelle.

* Re: the Holts made very little eye contact with each other. Trouble was brewing but they united for the documentary.

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Cam

[clueliss]

@Cam her posts are public so you should be able to go to Twitter via a web browser at the very least to see the entire thread and what she's saying.

[hoipolloi]

44 minutes ago, Cam said:

Jill doesn’t say the word therapy. She says, someone in IBLP usually “has to go thru help” to sort things out. It sounds like she still feels some stigma for doing so (which she shouldn’t.) I’m proud of and impressed with her for getting the help she needed.

If she is getting therapy, I hope that her therapist is a legitimate & qualified practitioner and not a nouthetic (a.k.a. biblical) counselor.

 

[CTRLZero]

I’m glad Beth Moore also mentioned why she dabbled in various Gothard-adjacent practices - peer pressure.  My fundamentalist neighbors went through all these stages, including the wife looking like Michelle Duggar through her constant pregnancies.  They eventually snapped out of it to a certain degree (it had more to do with annoyance of having long hair, lol), but they then switched churches.  Maybe it was to lessen the peer pressure of that movement.  They are still conservative, but wear pants and limited the childbearing to eight.  

We met some girls wearing purity rings over the past few decades.  It’s crazy how these movements take root and get popularized.  I wish I’d paid more attention at the time and understood what was going on.  

[lumpentheologie]

My wife and I watched the second episode last night. We had to pause once because she was crying. There was a trigger warning, but it was very rough to watch. Michelle really comes off terribly, as they read from her book in a baby voice from when she’s not only blanket training the kids but forcing them to smile during it. What a psychopath that woman is. 

I think the show is doing a good job of showing that the Duggars and IBLP are pretty depraved. 

I wonder what kind of Bobbye Holt we would have gotten if she were filmed now. Her as one of the former abused wives? I wonder if she’ll write a follow up book — there might be a market for that. 
 

 

[ladyicantxplain]

10 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

What a psychopath that woman is. 

Thank you for saying this.

So many people "feel sorry for Michelle" because, you know, the men.
Yes, there is truth to that statement, but this woman is clearly psychotic.
She weeps crocodile tears while talking about birth control "causing" her miscarriage and "crying out to God" on the floor on her knees...yet she sadistically sing-songs melodically about her "blanket training" and other horrific child-raising practices.

She's vile.
And she's an adult woman with full agency, no matter what kind of malignant narcissist she married.
Perhaps she is also a malignant narcissist.

[Sister Mozz]

1 hour ago, eightykatie said:

I was also taken by the brief snipped where Amy said she was proud of Jill for hitting Josh when he was molesting her.  So much for Michelle's "the girls didn't even know it had happened"

I noticed that too! First time we've heard of it. Even in the Megyn Kelly interview, Jill said that the molestations happened when the girls were sleeping and didn't realize it. We already knew that part was a lie, but we didn't know Jill personally reacted and hit him.

I've seen the first two episodes. The second was harder for me because it reflected more of my personal experience as a parentified child whose own needs were never addressed. Looking forward to watching more.

[Coconut Flan]

10 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

noticed that too! First time we've heard of it. Even in the Megyn Kelly interview, Jill said that the molestations happened when the girls were sleeping and didn't realize it. We already knew that part was a lie, but we didn't know Jill personally reacted and hit him.

Somewhere over the years I'd heard or read that about Jill hitting Josh and telling her parents.  I can't remember if it was in the police reports or an interview one of the other kids gave.  

[noseybutt]

32 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Thank you for saying this.

So many people "feel sorry for Michelle" because, you know, the men.
Yes, there is truth to that statement, but this woman is clearly psychotic.
She weeps crocodile tears while talking about birth control "causing" her miscarriage and "crying out to God" on the floor on her knees...yet she sadistically sing-songs melodically about her "blanket training" and other horrific child-raising practices.

She's vile.
And she's an adult woman with full agency, no matter what kind of malignant narcissist she married.
Perhaps she is also a malignant narcissist.

I think saying IBLF  patriarchy benefits men over simplifies the situation. Because it sure as heck seems to benefit Michelle too. She got a life she seems to enjoy complete with money, power, adulation, and fame.

So yeah. She’s right there in the mix creating hell on earth for so many others.

 

 

 

 

[OHFL2009]

47 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

Thank you for saying this.

So many people "feel sorry for Michelle" because, you know, the men.
Yes, there is truth to that statement, but this woman is clearly psychotic.
She weeps crocodile tears while talking about birth control "causing" her miscarriage and "crying out to God" on the floor on her knees...yet she sadistically sing-songs melodically about her "blanket training" and other horrific child-raising practices.

She's vile.
And she's an adult woman with full agency, no matter what kind of malignant narcissist she married.
Perhaps she is also a malignant narcissist.

Michelle also wasn't raised in it, she actively chose it. I extend some grace to the second generation as they become adults and parents themselves. As we're seeing with Jill, breaking out and deconstructing is not an overnight process when you've been brainwashed since birth to think this way. I will give them a little time to realize that how they were raised was wrong. But Michelle had what sounds like a fairly normal upbringing, and still chose to do this to her children. 

[Laura2730]

19 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Somewhere over the years I'd heard or read that about Jill hitting Josh and telling her parents.  I can't remember if it was in the police reports or an interview one of the other kids gave.  

Bobye at Josh’s trial evidentiary hearing said he confessed to her he tried to X but the V woke up saw what he was trying to do and kicked him, I’m pretty sure Bobye said Josh said that V “snitched” on him. 
 

Amy is the first person to identify the V as Jill.