Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[Zebedee]

39 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

My husband is leaving in about 10 minutes. He’s going on a business trip (convention) for 5 days. Everyone here knows what’s on my agenda while he is gone. PERFECT TIMING!

Lol, I just dropped mine off at the airport this morning, for a few days jolly in the UK... I'm just settling in with a bottle of wine to watch it all now! Half way through the first episode, I was already so enraged by Michelle's adoring gaze  and Gothard's smarmy bullshit, I had to grab the corkscrew and imagine the cork was Gothard's face. I've never listened to him speak before, he's so... greasy. And so incredibly arrogant.

[Hane]

Tia Leving’s story hit me like a two by four. One of my former students and her young adult daughter were shot to death by her ex-husband while their young sons looked on but managed to flee. A similar event occurred in a nearby town not long afterwards.

I felt for the young woman who mentioned she wound up in jail for shoplifting, obviously oblivious to the fact that she was suffering from PTSD. So much for Gothard’s “guarantees” that he had “the one correct answer” that would “keep kids out of trouble.”

Meanwhile, untold members of the “Joshua Generation” are still out there, waging war against our values in our legislature.

[lumpentheologie]

Just finished the first episode. Nothing I didn’t already know or assume, but I thought it was well put together for an audience that isn’t us. My wife watched with me and was so shocked that this is happening and has been allowed to continue for so long. My fundie forum time that she’s spent years bemusedly tolerating is getting a lot more respect now! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m sitting here thinking about so much stuff in the documentary that was known for years and years on FJ. It’s just crazy to think about. How long has FJ been talking about the letter to the Oprah show. Forever it seems like. It’s funny how you can know as much as a documentary before you even watch the documentary! 

[lumpentheologie]

James just posted this, potentially in reference to the documentary. Not sure what to make of it, maybe it’s directed against Jill? 
 

 

[TN-peach]

7 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

James just posted this, potentially in reference to the documentary. Not sure what to make of it, maybe it’s directed against Jill? 
 

 

I can't keep the younger boys straight - isn't James the one that seemed to be supporting Jill during and after the trial?!  Could he be directing this at his father? It seems to fit JB more than Jill. 

[CanadianMamam]

59 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

 

Thank you. I should’ve said Jim Holt. I understand Bobbye was still steeped in it at the time and yes, I should’ve said Jim. 
 

(I’ve had a rough morning finding out a lifelong family friend is dying from cancer and they can’t get his pain under control. I’m not thinking clearly)

I think Jim Holt basically did it as an FU to Jim Bob. He gets no grace. Bobye does, especially since her testifying meant Jill didn't have too. 

[hoipolloi]

Alex Harris -- son of Gregg, younger brother of Josh & Bret's twin -- has a commentary on the documentary at the Gospel Coalition.

Quote

 

I had a wonderful homeschool experience, for which I’ll always be grateful. At its best, I see in the Christian homeschooling movement a work of genuine educational reform and spiritual renewal for countless families.

But while I remain firmly in the fold, I have peers—including members of my own family—who have left the church, rejecting not just their upbringing but faith itself in response to evils they experienced and false gospels they were taught.

Perhaps more unusual for a reviewer, I also appear in several episodes of Shiny Happy People. A year ago, the filmmakers invited me to sit down for an interview, not to talk about the Duggars or Gothard but to discuss the bigger story of the Christian homeschooling movement and the “Joshua Generation.”

 

Both Alex & Bret, as well as Josh, have publicly expressed regret for their endorsement of purity culture and courtship. Josh has renounced it all as well as his faith. Nonetheless, Alex's commentary sounds more like "Bill Gothard, the Duggars, et al. were doing it wrong" than anything else. Ryan Stollar, major critic of fundie homeschooling & its support network (HSLDA), is absolutely right:

 

[CanadianMamam]

7 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

I can't keep the younger boys straight - isn't James the one that seemed to be supporting Jill during and after the trial?!  Could he be directing this at his father? It seems to fit JB more than Jill. 

I believe James was one of Jill's buddies but it was Jason who issued a statement when Josh was sentenced. 

James and Jill have seemed to be close though. 

37 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sitting here thinking about so much stuff in the documentary that was known for years and years on FJ. It’s just crazy to think about. How long has FJ been talking about the letter to the Oprah show. Forever it seems like. It’s funny how you can know as much as a documentary before you even watch the documentary! 

Yes, I felt like I knew most. I also knew about Recovering Grace and Tia Levings. But seeing it all together was still powerful and my husband had no clue. He knew about Josh's conviction and about Jill leaving the fold and that was it. 

[hoipolloi]

Good summary even if it is from a Christian pastor. He formerly worked at RZIM but resigned over the organization's failure to deal with Zaharias. 

 

[CanadianMamam]

I was  thinking about my earlier comment and realizing there is a major difference between going to church (which my family did) and being raised in a church. We went to church on Sundays/holidays. The church has the occasional potluck. 

But my parents social circle was outsider the church, so was mine. I was in choir and Sunday school but I was also in ballet and baseball and drama lessons and figure skating. I met a variety of people. 

I was raised Christan. I was not raised in a church. The church did not take over every aspect of my life and that is what makes IBLP dangerous. It controlls every element of people's lives. 

[hoipolloi]

Crystal Paine adds these comments:

[HarleyQuinn]

I finished the series. I didn't learn anything new personally but it was nice hearing from IBLP survivors. They had the most compelling part of the story.

I thought they would go a little harder on the Duggars personally. Jill's criticisms are still over money (valid, though I do think her husband deserves a smidge of blame for not thinking about looking at a contract before signing it as an adult that didn't grow up in a cult) I didn't like how they said they found out TLC cut ties with them on social media without the context of Derick bullying a teenage girl that was also on their Network. Nothing about the danger of their religion. Again, Gothard is an easy scapegoat, just like with Jinger's story. 

Amy's husband is completely annoying. I don't see why he had to be there at all.

Jim Holt is still a wet potato. That dude would not have done a thing had Bobye not stepped up.

[TN-peach]

19 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I finished the series. I didn't learn anything new personally but it was nice hearing from IBLP survivors. They had the most compelling part of the story.

I thought they would go a little harder on the Duggars personally. Jill's criticisms are still over money (valid, though I do think her husband deserves a smidge of blame for not thinking about looking at a contract before signing it as an adult that didn't grow up in a cult) I didn't like how they said they found out TLC cut ties with them on social media without the context of Derick bullying a teenage girl that was also on their Network. Nothing about the danger of their religion. Again, Gothard is an easy scapegoat, just like with Jinger's story. 

Amy's husband is completely annoying. I don't see why he had to be there at all.

Jim Holt is still a wet potato. That dude would not have done a thing had Bobye not stepped up.

Question though - Derick ever sign one?  They only talk about Jill signing it and it was right before her wedding. 

[Baxter]

I got the impression that Jill signed the contract not really knowing what it was but Jim Bob had asked her to sign something and of course she obeyed. She still thought he had her best interests at heart. I'm sure she was very busy and distracted the day before her wedding and even if she had been taught to think critically about things (something she was deliberately not taught) she might not have thought about it in that moment. 

[Katzchen24]

I will say that it’s made me think about how I view Anna Duggar based on the stories told by the IBLP survivors. I’ve never held an absolutist “she sucks for not leaving him” view but have flip-flopped on how much agency she has. Now I genuinely think she’s not capable of it. IBLP, the Kellers and then the Duggars have made it impossible for her to be anything other than Pests wife and the mother of a bunch of kids who are now only safe because he’s been locked up. I’m 100% sure not one person in that whole mess thought they even needed protection. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

3 hours ago, ALM7 said:

For those that don't have Amazon Prime, I noticed the documentary is streaming on Freevee, and it is free to view.

[I'm a few pages behind, so may be this was already mentioned]

Thanks! Now I'm watching it on freevee! (I don't have prime). Looks like only 3 spisodes though. So maybe they're trying to hook you in?

Edited June 2, 2023 by WatchingTheTireFireBurn

[JermajestyDuggar]

I have a feeling that there is a lot more tension in the Duggar family besides just Jill and Jim Bob and Josh. I bet there are some kids that are much less close to some family members than they used to be. And some who have gotten closer. 

[Zebedee]

Who is Chad Harris? A random Harris, or a relation to Josh Harris?

[Jackie3]

The documentary made me think even less of Michelle Duggar. Because of what Amy said.

Apparently, she "corrected" those kids often enough that even young Amy noticed. Even if it was once  a day, that's hundreds of times per year and thousands of times over her parenting years.

What kind of person hurts small kids over and over again, for years? Listens to them scream in pain. I'd scream in pain if I were hit with PVC piping or a glue stick. What kind of person sees welts form on their 4 year olds legs, then goes and does it again the next day to her 6-year old?

S had 19 kids and has been a parent for 35 kids. She beat little kids every day, for years. 

She must be a sociopath. I don't use that term lightly, but beating and terrifying little kids is one of the worst thing you can do in my book. And I hope it was just little kids, I hope she didn't "encourage" the ones over 8 or 10 years. It' s possible, though. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Jackie3

[HarleyQuinn]

49 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

Question though - Derick ever sign one?  They only talk about Jill signing it and it was right before her wedding. 

I feel like he would've had to, and that was conveniently left out.  Like how Jill said she didn't have an income for 7 years of her adult life - it left out that her parents gave her a house, and she clearly had a bank card with money in it probably from them. Just a lot of half truths, IMO. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 minute ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I feel like he would've had to, and that was conveniently left out.  Like how Jill said she didn't have an income for 7 years of her adult life - it left out that her parents gave her a house, and she clearly had a bank card with money in it probably from them. Just a lot of half truths, IMO. 

She said she wasn’t paid for the show for 7.5 years of her adult life. Not that she didn’t have an income.

Edited June 2, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Antimony]

1 minute ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I feel like he would've had to, and that was conveniently left out.  Like how Jill said she didn't have an income for 7 years of her adult life - it left out that her parents gave her a house, and she clearly had a bank card with money in it probably from them. Just a lot of half truths, IMO. 

I'm wondering if it's just that they didn't sign the same one, and he did read his but when it comes down to the contract requiring them to film her birthing Izzylike...what is he gonna do? Not be at the birth? Refuse to sign a release? That part of things puts him in a corner where appearances required for like...I dunno, Fundie Conferences or Couch Interviews with Jessa...don't. 

[neuroticcat]

I stayed up super late and watched it all last night.

Still processing. It was a lot & I think they did a really good job. I knew much of it but some things were new to me.

I don’t think I knew how the Duggars made Discovery Health into an empire.

I thought the reality TVs expert’s insights were really interesting. 

Thought the small touches were nice - the peeling photo in the intro, the baby voice reading out the wisdom booklets, the cult like placement of the excerpts as well as repeated use of The Institute (so dystopian).

Lots of places where I thought I might not be able to continue like that horrific clip of little boy being “spanked” on stage by the pastor who then made him hug “right” 

So proud of the survivors. Jill did an amazing job especially considering the training for be-loyal-or-you-go-to-hell. The financial abuse is insane - that Jim Bob never paid anyone a cent and offered them $10/hr

Tia Levings story was heartbreaking. She amazes me.

All the survivors were incredible and I hope they feel heard and are happy with the end result

I wish the doc had called out the Bates and current IBLP leaders.

The Duggars statement was shitty and a big dig at Jill.  

I was also pleasantly surprised by Amy and Deanna. 

I don’t think I knew Amy was that close to all the siblings. I guess I assumed it was played up for the show not that she was there every day. 
 

 

[Bad Wolf]

Years ago a judge had a mother spank her son in court. It hit the national news. I always worried about that poor boy having to go back to school and probably be taunted by his peers. Jill and her sisters have had their trauma splashed all over the media,  thanks to JB and his greed.