Shiny Happy People: A Duggar and IBLP Documentary

[Jackie3]

56 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

Having now watched all episodes, I have to say I think the documentary was poorly constructed. T

I agree. It's disjointed (I've only seen two so far).

I was puzzled by the brief segway into Christian domestic discipline. Out of nowhere, they started talking about "corner time" and "choosing implements". Apparently, fundie women are spanked for forgetting to call their husband's lord? Where did that come from?

I suppose there may be fundie families where this sort of thing is practiced, but I've never heard Kelly Bates call Gil "Lord" or "sir." Or Michelle Duggar for that matter. There's no need to make the fundies crazier than they really are!

 

[mama4cor]

4 hours ago, Lista said:

Is there any former JW here? I swear that religion is so much alike. JW is just wrapped up in a more pretty bow.   I shook after watching the documentary.  All day.  The whole thing could’ve been about any strict religion.  The obey shit even as an adult.  The whole thing.  I recently got dumped by a family member. Because I’m too worldly.  What? Sometimes I feel like I escaped that crap.  Then I get haunted. 

I was raised a JW. Disfellowshipped right around my 18th birthday. I have only watched one and a half episodes so far because I’m struggling with all of the feelings that are coming up. I want to watch all 4 but I have to take it slow for my own mental health. There are differences, sure, but so many similarities. 

[Katzchen24]

19 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I was puzzled by the brief segway into Christian domestic discipline. Out of nowhere, they started talking about "corner time" and "choosing implements". Apparently, fundie women are spanked for forgetting to call their husband's lord? Where did that come from?

 

 

The Spanky Sproul threads are called that for a reason! 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Katzchen24
Changed my mind about adding more about him and his awful wife.

[Coconut Flan]

The Bill Gates/Gil Bates thing is a joke in our house.  My one SIL finally corrected me out loud after several months of thinking I was confused and had some very messed up ideas about Bill Gates.  Then my daughter and I looked at him like he'd lost it and we both went NO it really is Gil Bates.  Thus the SIL bought himself an indoctrination class into the world of fundie.  

[SassyPants]

16 minutes ago, mama4cor said:

I was raised a JW. Disfellowshipped right around my 18th birthday. I have only watched one and a half episodes so far because I’m struggling with all of the feelings that are coming up. I want to watch all 4 but I have to take it slow for my own mental health. There are differences, sure, but so many similarities. 

I was raised in a mainstream religious home. My dad also has a controlling personality. Most of my childhood friends grew up in similar circumstances. I keep thinking how lucky we were that our families did not get sucked into this level of religion. So many children are so easy to mold and to follow along when threatened with fear tactics or physical abuse. 

There but by the grace of God.

[fluffernutter]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

When they were mentioning the old days of discovery health channel, I was so nostalgic. I used to love all the medical shows on discovery health in the late 90s early 2000s. And I liked TLC back then because it wasn’t just a bunch of train wreck reality shows. But I agree that the Duggar shows did bring in a lot of good ratings when the network was still pretty small. They were probably one of the first hit shows the channel had. Nowadays it’s the entire 90 Day Fiancé franchise that makes TLC their money. 

I believe they were the ones that had a show called "A Baby Story" that aired during the day. That was smack dab in the middle of when I was having my babies, and I loved it so much. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

I believe they were the ones that had a show called "A Baby Story" that aired during the day. That was smack dab in the middle of when I was having my babies, and I loved it so much. 

This is what I remember although I could be remembering wrong. Back in the early 2000s, sometimes the same shows would play on both TLC and discovery health. Because they were basically owned by the same company and had similar audiences. Although not all cable companies carried both channels. That way they could get people to watch a certain show on either channel. So I think the Duggar specials may have been aired on both channels at some point. 

[Carol]

It was interesting the way they portrayed Mike Huckabee, taking out after that woman who disagreed with him.  He's such a stud. 😂

Edited June 3, 2023 by Carol

[Cam]

3 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Off topic: I had my teenager watch it with me. At the end, I wondered aloud why Gil Bates hadn’t been mentioned more, along with his IBLP connections and power. 
My kid: “Who?”

Me: “Gil Bates. They had a show, too, United Bates of America.”

My kid: “oh, I thought you meant Bill Gates. I was afraid you were having a stroke.”

I do so love this!!!!!!! 😂 

[Lista]

1 hour ago, mama4cor said:

I was raised a JW. Disfellowshipped right around my 18th birthday. I have only watched one and a half episodes so far because I’m struggling with all of the feelings that are coming up. I want to watch all 4 but I have to take it slow for my own mental health. There are differences, sure, but so many similarities. 

I thought it was just me.  I am truly traumatized.  Only because there’s so much similar crap. 

I talk about some stuff now.  But I didn’t realize how much I held back .  If you think about it   It’s nearly the same. It’s not Gothard. Just the old elders.  If you don’t believe? Bam  

still shocked.  My therapist will get her money worth next month. 

[FilleMondaine]

One of our best friends* was JW and her family cut her off. We just ache for her, because her mother apparently would have been an excellent and loving grandma.

Gil Bates and Bill Gates…seeing the Bill Gates had an Epstein connection, maybe the two are related after all, due to their links with powerful pedos.

like others, I am sharing myself about ‘there for the grace of god’, because had I been just 3 years younger, with VF and IBLP more powerful, I would have been trapped with my abuser with no public school relief. Those two institutions still had plenty of impact.

*Best friends also means ‘compound friends’, because they are the people you think about when you imagine growing old ona compound with your best friends. The Mondaine Family loves that family.

 

 

[Bad Wolf]

The little boy being spanked was horrifying. It must be ok for a stranger to spank you, then you hug them, because everyone thinks it's funny. Way to set your child up to be molested.

[Lista]

5 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

The little boy being spanked was horrifying. It must be ok for a stranger to spank you, then you hug them, because everyone thinks it's funny. Way to set your child up to be molested.

There was a JW convention. I must’ve been 4? My step mom brought me in the bathroom to spank me.  Someone walked in. I thought I was saved. Instead, I got hit & they both laughed. 
 

I’ll never forget that.  Me watching that kid get “fake spank”  I felt so bad for him.  
 

watching that made me relive stuff that I thought I forgot or hot over. 
 

super super traumatized.   I thought I was over it and strong. 
 

made me wanna give Jill a hug.  I could never do what she did. 

[SisterCupcake]

I agree with some folks that the documentary as a whole could feel disjointed, but each episode felt mostly cohesive - minus the segway into wifely discipline for two seconds - wtf was that??? I appreciated the way in which they used the Duggars to try and frame a larger issue with IBLP, and I think it was done effectively. One example of this was the beginning of the episode where they started with the Duggar children building their house and then transitioned to the IBLP structure.

I consider myself pretty well versed in all things Fundie, and especially IBLP, but some of the things in the Wisdom Booklets were eye opening to me. I did appreciate all the shade the ex-IBLPers threw at them though. How could a young man NOT think about sex all day when the whole teachings are about "don't think about sex...sex...sex...." And I thought the whole framing around why young women (who became young wives) were set up to be victims was spot on. As much as we like to snark on Derrick, Jill dodged a bullet with him. Her life could have been so much worse if her husband had a penchant for abuse. How could she say no?

I also give Jill credit for standing up for herself as much as she did. Clearly she's not done deconstructing, her comments about wanting Josh's initial abuse of her and her sisters to stay buried are proof of that, but she's well on her way.

[mama4cor]

52 minutes ago, Lista said:

There was a JW convention. I must’ve been 4? My step mom brought me in the bathroom to spank me.  Someone walked in. I thought I was saved. Instead, I got hit & they both laughed. 
 

I’ll never forget that.  Me watching that kid get “fake spank”  I felt so bad for him.  
 

watching that made me relive stuff that I thought I forgot or hot over. 
 

super super traumatized.   I thought I was over it and strong. 
 

made me wanna give Jill a hug.  I could never do what she did. 

I feel so much empathy for Jill. I have not shared much with anyone about the things that I experienced as a young JW - I can’t imagine sharing with strangers on tv. That takes a level of strength that I don’t have, even after 25 years and therapy. I know Jill hasn’t come as far as many would like, but the distance she has come is absolutely enormous in my opinion. I too want to hug her and tell her that she’s doing a good and courageous thing by speaking out.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

My cynical side thinks Jill held back in part because Derick wants some soundbites and "bombshells" exclusively for their book. I'm pretty sure he's still 100% the headship. 

[Lista]

1 hour ago, mama4cor said:

I feel so much empathy for Jill. I have not shared much with anyone about the things that I experienced as a young JW - I can’t imagine sharing with strangers on tv. That takes a level of strength that I don’t have, even after 25 years and therapy. I know Jill hasn’t come as far as many would like, but the distance she has come is absolutely enormous in my opinion. I too want to hug her and tell her that she’s doing a good and courageous thing by speaking out.

That’s the thing.  She lives it for everyone to see.  She doesn’t realize how many people she might help.  It has helped.  I’m too old lol. Still in therapy.  Still fighting my past.  It really never ends.  I literally have. Sister that won’t talk to me. Because I’m not a believer. I was basically told I’m not worthy of their work. I’m ok with that.  But it does hurt. 
 

jill has a platform.  Us normal people don’t. 

[formergothardite]

It has been strange watching the documentary, especially spotting people I know in some of the IBLP videos. I feel like they did a good job showing how widespread the teachings of Gothard have become. He really did help change America. I’m glad they brought up Hobby Lobby because those people are awful. 

I still find cousin Amy extremely annoying. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, formergothardite said:

It has been strange watching the documentary, especially spotting people I know in some of the IBLP videos. I feel like they did a good job showing how widespread the teachings of Gothard have become. He really did help change America. I’m glad they brought up Hobby Lobby because those people are awful. 

I still find cousin Amy extremely annoying. 

Amy annoys the hell out of me. But I swear with her extremely annoying husband sitting next to her, she seemed so much less annoying in comparison! Maybe that’s why she wanted him to sit with her 😝

[Giraffe]

I didn't feel like Amy or her mom added anything to the documentary. I was also annoyed Paul & Morgan were given an interview. 

[KWLand]

9 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I didn't feel like Amy or her mom added anything to the documentary. I was also annoyed Paul & Morgan were given an interview. 

Oh but without the interview, we wouldn’t have gotten Paul’s reaction 😂. I haven’t even watched the interview but saw a bit of his tantrum that they were portrayed poorly.  

[Smee]

7 hours ago, SisterCupcake said:

Clearly she's not done deconstructing, her comments about wanting Josh's initial abuse of her and her sisters to stay buried are proof of that, but she's well on her way.

Meh, I think for someone who had no choice about her entire life being filmed for public consumption (& the money going elsewhere) her desire to not go public with details of being sexually abused in childhood are perfectly reasonable. They made a statement after the trial; it’s clear they don’t think Josh is a forgive and forget situation. Maybe revisiting it in an interview would be retraumatising rather than healing. A documentary isn’t therapy.

Also, even if she does talk more about all that in her book (I’m not sure she will), she has a lot more control over how the narrative is framed than she does with a documentary directed, edited and produced by other people who are also interviewing a bunch of others. Writing is slow, it involves re-reading and re-phrasing if you don’t feel like your point came out right. In a doco once you’re on the record, you’re on the record.

[Cam]

10 hours ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

My cynical side thinks Jill held back in part because Derick wants some soundbites and "bombshells" exclusively for their book. I'm pretty sure he's still 100% the headship. 

Agree. I think it was possibly a provision of their book contract that Jill and Derik not discuss parts of their story publicly until the book is released. 

 

2 hours ago, Smee said:

Meh, I think for someone who had no choice about her entire life being filmed for public consumption (& the money going elsewhere) her desire to not go public with details of being sexually abused in childhood are perfectly reasonable. They made a statement after the trial; it’s clear they don’t think Josh is a forgive and forget situation. Maybe revisiting it in an interview would be retraumatising rather than healing. A documentary isn’t therapy.

Also, even if she does talk more about all that in her book (I’m not sure she will), she has a lot more control over how the narrative is framed than she does with a documentary directed, edited and produced by other people who are also interviewing a bunch of others. Writing is slow, it involves re-reading and re-phrasing if you don’t feel like your point came out right. In a doco once you’re on the record, you’re on the record.

Very good point. You don’t know how a documentary is going to frame your story. With a book you have more control. I do think the Dillards will be more forthcoming in print. Still probably be certain topics off limits. I’d love to hear her thoughts on what she thought of her dad financed Josh’s trial defense after denying the Dillards money for the child birth bill.
 

Jill also got to see what media coverage it was like for Jinger. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Cam

[JermajestyDuggar]

6 minutes ago, Cam said:

Agree. I think it was possibly a provision of their book contract that Jill and Derik not discuss parts of their story publicly until the book is released. 

 

Very good point. You don’t know how a documentary is going to frame your story. With a book you have more control. I do think the Dillards will be more forthcoming in print. Still probably be certain topics off limits. I’d love to hear her thoughts on what she thought of her dad financed Josh’s trial defense after denying the Dillards money for the child birth bill.
 

Jill also got to see what media coverage it was like for Jinger. 

I have a feeling Jinger was heavily prepped for interviews. She interviews much better now than in the past. I don’t know if Jill will have that. I’m sure MacArthur wanted Jinger to be perfect for interviews so he may have hired someone. Jill’s book interviews may not come off as flawless and easy as Jinger’s. Plus Jinger never talked about her family (the hard stuff) that Jill will be delving into. 

[CanadianMamam]

18 hours ago, Lista said:

Is there any former JW here? I swear that religion is so much alike. JW is just wrapped up in a more pretty bow.   I shook after watching the documentary.  All day.  The whole thing could’ve been about any strict religion.  The obey shit even as an adult.  The whole thing.  I recently got dumped by a family member. Because I’m too worldly.  What? Sometimes I feel like I escaped that crap.  Then I get haunted. 

Not JW myself but my mom's best friend converted when I was a child and I used to occasionally go to Kingdom Hall when I slept over, even as a kid I thought it www creepy (very different than my laid-back church).

The first time I ever heard about headship was at a JW wedding. As the officiant kept droning on about it, I kept exchanging uncomfortable looks with my husband. And then later, I got interested in fundies and it was an "aha" moment. 

My JW friends used to call me their cousin when discussing me with church friends as you aren't supposed to have outside friends. I also remember talking to one of them on the phone for hours because she has to sit in the hall and watch her roommate and her fiance through the open door. She wanted to let them have private conversation, which was why she called me. 

The only big differences was alcohol was fine and there was no modesty dress code that I could see. So more normal packing, but damn is it a weird and controlling "religion".