Jana Duggar 16: Living in a Tiny House in Daddy's Backyard

[Cam]

Yeah, there’s no way a documentary with “Duggar family secrets” in the title is going to allude Jana’s attention. She could hear about it from so many different sources, via family conversations, word of mouth from others, church, various social media platforms, magazine covers at the store, news outlets, etc. even when you’re not actively seeking it. 

I’d love to know which family members viewed the doc in its entirety. Were they aghast? Did it plant seeds of doubt about the IBLP in any of their minds? Were they outraged at anything? What were the points that they agreed or disagreed with? And how many were good little fundamentalists and turned a blind eye and ear to that which was strongly suggested they not watch? Would any shrug their shoulders and say they didn’t give a rat’s ass about it?

Edited July 2, 2023 by Cam

[Smee]

I expect those that watched it vowed not to spend time with mean backstabbing Jill anymore. Cults use coercive control, and one of the hallmarks of coercive control is what’s been dubbed “perspecticide” where you’re so worn down by gaslighting and self-doubt that you adopt the perspective of the abuser (cult leader, or in this case, Jim Bob) as your own. I have no doubt that Jana firmly believes in the IBLP and if she watched this doco her response would be as defensive as Gothard himself’s. “They misunderstood, they cherry picked the bad things, well of course if you frame it like THAT it sounds much worse than it is”. I still see Jana as a victim though. She’s all in on her parents’ beliefs because that’s what brainwashing does. No need to physically restrain cult members if you can convince them they don’t WANT to leave and anything bad that happens was their own fault/God’s punishment for not being loyal enough.

[Jinder Roles]

On 6/9/2023 at 4:42 PM, Cam said:

Yes, very much so! It feels like it this approach began to get ushered in once Trump was in office. The emphasis was on women looking like the Stepford ones on the air at Fox network and in his cabinet like Ivanka and press secretary Kayleigh Mcenany. Fundies were so enamored of Trump, a shift in appearance to look more like his followers was permitted. 

I think this happened a little before Trump. Essentially, a lot of fundies were getting heat because people were starting to critique purity culture and their general awfulness (remember all those documentaries about purity balls?) that they started a massive rebrand. Even in 19KAC days, the Duggar girls cringed at their former prairie dresses and called their style "modern modest". @JermajestyDuggar is right. Their changes in speech, fashion etc. is to lure folks in and distract people from the horrible beliefs that their former aesthetics are markers of. 

It's not just fundies either. For example; many evangelical churches have changed their talking points from open homophobia and racism to more subtle indicators. They've even rebranded conversion therapy! 

As for Jana, we have no way what she's thinking but it's been well documented that eldest daughters of mega fundie families tend to get married later, if at all. Also, having all that responsibility so young  does a psychological number on you. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Jinder Roles

[Mama Mia]

18 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I think this happened a little before Trump. Essentially, a lot of fundies were getting heat because people were starting to critique purity culture and their general awfulness (remember all those documentaries about purity balls?) that they started a massive rebrand. Even in 19KAC days, the Duggar girls cringed at their former prairie dresses and called their style "modern modest". @JermajestyDuggar is right. Their changes in speech, fashion etc. is to lure folks in and distract people from the horrible beliefs that their former aesthetics are markers of. 

It's not just fundies either. For example; many evangelical churches have changed their talking points from open homophobia and racism to more subtle indicators. They've even rebranded conversion therapy! 

As for Jana, we have no way what she's thinking but it's been well documented that eldest daughters of mega fundie families tend to get married later, if at all. Also, having all that responsibility so young  does a psychological number on you. 

Just speculation but I think the loosening of clothing rules, and sounding a little more mainstream not only helps promote their image, but helps tremendously in keeping their teens and young adults from straying. If they can look and dress more or less like other people their age, and the rhetoric isn’t soooo extreme they feel like freaks every time they talk to an outsider they might keep to the general agenda instead of rebelling and ditching all of it. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Mama Mia

[Kiki03910]

19 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I think this happened a little before Trump. Essentially, a lot of fundies were getting heat because people were starting to critique purity culture and their general awfulness (remember all those documentaries about purity balls?) that they started a massive rebrand. Even in 19KAC days, the Duggar girls cringed at their former prairie dresses and called their style "modern modest". @JermajestyDuggar is right. Their changes in speech, fashion etc. is to lure folks in and distract people from the horrible beliefs that their former aesthetics are markers of. 

It's not just fundies either. For example; many evangelical churches have changed their talking points from open homophobia and racism to more subtle indicators. They've even rebranded conversion therapy! 

As for Jana, we have no way what she's thinking but it's been well documented that eldest daughters of mega fundie families tend to get married later, if at all. Also, having all that responsibility so young  does a psychological number on you. 

This came a bit later, but Hulu did a fantastic movie about a purity retreat in 2019. Highly recommended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_(Into_the_Dark)

[Kiki03910]

2 hours ago, Kiki03910 said:

This came a bit later, but Hulu did a fantastic movie about a purity retreat in 2019. Highly recommended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_(Into_the_Dark)

Btw, you guys, this is a horror movie, to be clear! As is appropriate lol.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

5 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

Just speculation but I think the loosening of clothing rules, and sounding a little more mainstream not only helps promote their image, but helps tremendously in keeping their teens and young adults from straying. If they can look and dress more or less like other people their age, and the rhetoric isn’t soooo extreme they feel like freaks every time they talk to an outsider they might keep to the general agenda instead of rebelling and ditching all of it. 

I agree this is what they’re thinking but it’s a losing battle. The kids are going to want cell phones like everyone else and from there the battle is lost. 

[GreenBeans]

1 hour ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I agree this is what they’re thinking but it’s a losing battle. The kids are going to want cell phones like everyone else and from there the battle is lost. 

I don’t know. You can totally live in an online bubble of right-wing rhetoric and evangelical fundie influencers. Social media algorithms tend to suggest content that’s similar to what you’ve viewed previously, and yes, they may be exposed to something different every once in a while, but they are used to ignoring whatever doesn’t fit their narrative as “left wing socialist propaganda” or whatever.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

12 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I don’t know. You can totally live in an online bubble of right-wing rhetoric and evangelical fundie influencers. Social media algorithms tend to suggest content that’s similar to what you’ve viewed previously, and yes, they may be exposed to something different every once in a while, but they are used to ignoring whatever doesn’t fit their narrative as “left wing socialist propaganda” or whatever.

That is true. But if they want more information it’s there. You only need that one tiny crack before the dam fails. 

[neuroticcat]

I also think the Duggars in particular had a lot of experience dismissing general conversation about their family. Wasn't there one episode where they talked about just ignoring tabloids in the grocery store? 

I think it's easy enough to, like Gothard & IBLP's statement, just be like: well, those bad people out there are trying to persecute us and move on to other things. Especially if you are deep into the kind of habits that are like "fix your mind on other things." 

I really loved the documentary. I also think it would be really hard and difficult to watch if it centered your family to examine IBLP. If I were in Jana's shoes, no matter if I was in the cult or secretly out, I don't know if I would've wanted to watch it.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I also think the Duggars in particular had a lot of experience dismissing general conversation about their family. Wasn't there one episode where they talked about just ignoring tabloids in the grocery store? 

I think it's easy enough to, like Gothard & IBLP's statement, just be like: well, those bad people out there are trying to persecute us and move on to other things. Especially if you are deep into the kind of habits that are like "fix your mind on other things." 

I really loved the documentary. I also think it would be really hard and difficult to watch if it centered your family to examine IBLP. If I were in Jana's shoes, no matter if I was in the cult or secretly out, I don't know if I would've wanted to watch it.

My family was quite dysfunctional and I don’t think I would have wanted to watch a documentary about us though I also probably would’ve felt a bit vindicated too. 

[Mostly Catholic]

Sorry I'm coming in a bit late, but I wonder if anyone knows if Jana is an actual paid employee of JB (or some family corporate entity), and that JB pays Social Security taxes on her "salary," etc.

All the times over the years that they've indicated some of the kids are working for "the family business," I wonder if they are actually legally employed or if JB just pays them informally or under the table because they are just "helping out family."

It actually wouldn't surprise me to learn down the road that JB is being investigated for illegal employment practices or that the kids find out that they don't quality for much in the way of Social Security when they retire because JB didn't pay their employment (SS) taxes for times when they "worked" for him.

And as for inheritance, I don't believe for one minute that the married daughters will get a penny. JB will leave everything to his sons because of his thinking that they have families to support and the married girls don't need it because their husbands are supposed to support them. Jana and any other unmarried daughters (at least ones who didn't rebel and disengage from the family) may get only a small portion of what the boys get.

[SassyPants]

19 hours ago, Mostly Catholic said:

Sorry I'm coming in a bit late, but I wonder if anyone knows if Jana is an actual paid employee of JB (or some family corporate entity), and that JB pays Social Security taxes on her "salary," etc.

All the times over the years that they've indicated some of the kids are working for "the family business," I wonder if they are actually legally employed or if JB just pays them informally or under the table because they are just "helping out family."

It actually wouldn't surprise me to learn down the road that JB is being investigated for illegal employment practices or that the kids find out that they don't quality for much in the way of Social Security when they retire because JB didn't pay their employment (SS) taxes for times when they "worked" for him.

And as for inheritance, I don't believe for one minute that the married daughters will get a penny. JB will leave everything to his sons because of his thinking that they have families to support and the married girls don't need it because their husbands are supposed to support them. Jana and any other unmarried daughters (at least ones who didn't rebel and disengage from the family) may get only a small portion of what the boys get.

Much like D Trump, I think JB plays footloose and fancy free with the financial aspects of his life and barely skirts legal when it comes to his “business” entities. If there ever comes a day where he faces legal ramifications for any uncovered malfeasance, I, for 1, will not be surprised. I think like many folks, JB “I will not allow that” thinks he is above the law, but unlike some others, he is lazy and I doubt he covers his tracks (or is willing to pay what it truly takes to cover one’s dirty tactics) all that well. 

TL;DR- JB has 2 very bad tendencies/traits: 1) He thinks he is smarter than your average bear. 2) He feels entitled to do whatever the hell he pleases in the financial arena-

[postscript]

I would not be surprised if, whenever JB and Michelle go to wherever they’re headed in the afterlife, there’s a giant inheritance dispute among the kids. He is probably transferring assets to favored kids, changing will and trust provisions based on who’s in at any given moment, and generally playing shell games as to which kid gets what. Josh has already gotten far more than his share, what with Daddy fronting his legal bills and subsidizing Anna and family. Some of the kids have gotten houses, some have gotten businesses. Some of the girls may have received lump-sum payouts. No way has everyone been treated equally. Some of the kids and grandkids may not care, but others are going to contest whatever will or trust is in place at his death. It could turn into an ugly free-for-all. 

I also don’t see him leaving much to charity. 

[Giraffe]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Much like D Trump, I think JB plays footloose and fancy free with the financial aspects of his life and barely skirts legal when it comes to his “business” entities. If there ever comes a day where he faces legal ramifications for any uncovered malfeasance, I, for 1, will not be surprised. I think like many folks, JB “I will not allow that” thinks he is above the law, but unlike some others, he is lazy and I doubt he covers his tracks (or is willing to pay what it truly takes to cover one’s dirty tactics) all that well. 

TL;DR- JB has 2 very bad tendencies/traits: 1) He thinks he is smarter than your average bear. 2) He feels entitled to do whatever the hell he pleases in the financial arena-

Absolutely. Jill the Truthteller got $175,000 and the pedo gets millions*. I hope someday JB eventually makes a mistake that ends up bringing in a forensic accountant that takes him down. Unfortunately it will never happen. 

*Between what JimBob "I will not allow for that" Duggar spent on the pedo's trial and what bare minimum he's shelling out for Anna I'd bet it's over a million at this point. (I did a cursory google search for what JB might've spent. Didn't come up with any numbers. From memory back when the trial was over I think a youtube lawyer estimated it was at least 1 million but possibly as much as 2)

[Father Son Holy Goat]

It would be interesting if Jill says something in her book or an interview and that is what brings down the house of cards. 

[Mostly Catholic]

Well, speaking of JB's financial shenanigans, the LA Times had an excerpt from Jill's book. Now, originally JB had her sign a contract with his and Meesh's production company (Mad Family LLC) for a lump sum of $80,000, same as all the kids. This is the paper JB pressured her to sign the day before her wedding. In return, Mad Family would get all monies from the shows. Jill had to try for years to get an unredacted copy of the contract. Meesh finally slipped her a copy; seeing how much JB was getting for each episode, Jill and Derrick estimate Mad Family made over $8 million from the shows. Here's the worst part of the article:

"In one of the most explosive allegations--and particularly damning--in the book, Dugger says that she and her husband received a letter from the IRS in 2018 indicating that they had been paid roughly $130,000--more than the one-time $80,000 payment they actually received from Jim Bob. They pushed Jim Bob to pay them the difference. He responded by sending an itemized list of expenses that he considered 'payment,' including utilities, education expenses, family meals for 12 years (#3 per day, for a total of $13,140) and a $15,000 harp,"

Yep, that mofo actually claimed food they fed their family as business expenses for his and Meesh's company. What a total a-hole.

I'm glad Jill and Derrick finally got the $175,000 or whatever.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

2 hours ago, Mostly Catholic said:

Well, speaking of JB's financial shenanigans, the LA Times had an excerpt from Jill's book. Now, originally JB had her sign a contract with his and Meesh's production company (Mad Family LLC) for a lump sum of $80,000, same as all the kids. This is the paper JB pressured her to sign the day before her wedding. In return, Mad Family would get all monies from the shows. Jill had to try for years to get an unredacted copy of the contract. Meesh finally slipped her a copy; seeing how much JB was getting for each episode, Jill and Derrick estimate Mad Family made over $8 million from the shows. Here's the worst part of the article:

"In one of the most explosive allegations--and particularly damning--in the book, Dugger says that she and her husband received a letter from the IRS in 2018 indicating that they had been paid roughly $130,000--more than the one-time $80,000 payment they actually received from Jim Bob. They pushed Jim Bob to pay them the difference. He responded by sending an itemized list of expenses that he considered 'payment,' including utilities, education expenses, family meals for 12 years (#3 per day, for a total of $13,140) and a $15,000 harp,"

Yep, that mofo actually claimed food they fed their family as business expenses for his and Meesh's company. What a total a-hole.

I'm glad Jill and Derrick finally got the $175,000 or whatever.

I would not be shocked if Jim Bob got into hot water with the IRS over this.

[Kiki03910]

2 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I would not be shocked if Jim Bob got into hot water with the IRS over this.

One can only hope. That foul motherfucker.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Kiki03910
needed to swear more

[Cam]

I wonder what other quiverful families would think of the large chunks of cash JB doles out to his children. Sure, a lump sum of $175,000 doesn’t seem fair wages for over ten years of work, but most quiverful families would never see that kind of money thrown around amongst their own broods, especially that much money given to each kid. I wish quiverful cult followers could wise up and see the sham JB was promoting. He was all toothy smiles and shellacked hair acting like he was following God’s will by breeding his wife to give birth over 20 times resulting in 19 kids, then acting like he had their best interests at heart. What a mercenary POS. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Cam

[nolongerIFBx]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:21 PM, Mostly Catholic said:

Well, speaking of JB's financial shenanigans, the LA Times had an excerpt from Jill's book. Now, originally JB had her sign a contract with his and Meesh's production company (Mad Family LLC) for a lump sum of $80,000, same as all the kids. This is the paper JB pressured her to sign the day before her wedding. In return, Mad Family would get all monies from the shows. Jill had to try for years to get an unredacted copy of the contract. Meesh finally slipped her a copy; seeing how much JB was getting for each episode, Jill and Derrick estimate Mad Family made over $8 million from the shows. Here's the worst part of the article:

"In one of the most explosive allegations--and particularly damning--in the book, Dugger says that she and her husband received a letter from the IRS in 2018 indicating that they had been paid roughly $130,000--more than the one-time $80,000 payment they actually received from Jim Bob. They pushed Jim Bob to pay them the difference. He responded by sending an itemized list of expenses that he considered 'payment,' including utilities, education expenses, family meals for 12 years (#3 per day, for a total of $13,140) and a $15,000 harp,"

Yep, that mofo actually claimed food they fed their family as business expenses for his and Meesh's company. What a total a-hole.

I'm glad Jill and Derrick finally got the $175,000 or whatever.

So, I haven't memorized the book, LOL, but I think the story was that JB TRIED to get them to sign a contract with MAD obligating them and their children (even those not yet conceived) to an NDA and participating in the show into perpetuity for a mere $80,000. The Dillards declined to sign and JB ended up "gifting" them with $80,000 anyway. No money was received for the contract Jill signed without Derick's knowledge or consent that obligated them both to filming until summer of 2018. The $175,000 or whatever was what they got after starting legal proceedings against JB/MAD due to the IRS informing them that they owed taxes on reported income they had never actually received. (Disclaimer that I could be remembering this wrongly.)

[LillyP]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:55 PM, Smee said:

I expect those that watched it vowed not to spend time with mean backstabbing Jill anymore. Cults use coercive control, and one of the hallmarks of coercive control is what’s been dubbed “perspecticide” where you’re so worn down by gaslighting and self-doubt that you adopt the perspective of the abuser (cult leader, or in this case, Jim Bob) as your own. I have no doubt that Jana firmly believes in the IBLP and if she watched this doco her response would be as defensive as Gothard himself’s. “They misunderstood, they cherry picked the bad things, well of course if you frame it like THAT it sounds much worse than it is”. I still see Jana as a victim though. She’s all in on her parents’ beliefs because that’s what brainwashing does. No need to physically restrain cult members if you can convince them they don’t WANT to leave and anything bad that happens was their own fault/God’s punishment for not being loyal enough.

For sure! I do feel bad for Jana because it's really easy for "regular" people to say...oh well she's an adult she can choose to leave. No. She has nothing. I guarantee all of her spending money is liked tied up on a JB family credit card, which she gets to use, and probably has little to nothing in her name other than the properties we know she "owns". But really, she's not going to do anything with them. She's also at a disadvantage because she hasn't had a spouse come into her life and plant that seed of "that is wrong and we need to do it differently"...and until that happens she's just stuck drinking the koolaid. It's a catch 22, because she's also way past prime in fundie land so it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. You know her parents are just sitting at the big house using Jill as an example of what happens if you don't toe the line. From the inside looking out she looks like like the black sheep who is ousted from the family (and that probably looks hella scary to them) but from the outside Jill is thriving. 

[Cam]

Not only is Jana past prime, but anyone who’d take her on now would also have to take on the whole shitshow of Duggar-dom. When the other older daughters were courting, a lot of the skeletons in the closet were still hidden. But now them bones is out walkin round making themselves known. Sure, a young fella might come along for one of the younger girls not knowing any better, but a guy Jana’s age is not gonna wanna take on the trainwreck of that extended family.

From reading the book and learning how controlling, domineering and guilt-tripping JB was to Jill, I am certain that he’s used similar tactics on Jana if he thought she ever got out of line. She seems to be content as JB’s gal Friday which gives her a certain amount of power, and she won’t rock that boat. Now that we know JB thinks his married daughters still have to instantly obey him, Jana may have decided she didn’t want to submit to both a husband’s authority and her father’s. And raise more kids.

[dawn9476]

David's sister Sarah Waller is getting married in a few weeks. She's 33. Is 10 months younger than Jana.  How do you think Jana feels when long single fundies around her age finally get married?

[Giraffe]

13 minutes ago, dawn9476 said:

David's sister Sarah Waller is getting married in a few weeks. She's 33. Is 10 months younger than Jana.  How do you think Jana feels when long single fundies around her age finally get married?

Personally I'm not convinced she's unhappy being single. Yes, maybe she's sad and wistful but she may also be happy for the couple without feeling sad to be left out.