John Shrader 21: Nine Years in Zambia and Still Failing

[Bluegrin]

It’s very interesting that the Beauchamps post this quote by a George Muller who is a man who sold everything he had and lived day to day. From what I read on Google about this muller that he had over a couple thousand orphans and the money was given by God. Apparently they had no endowments. Regardless Beauchamp quotes this guy over and over relentlessly on his page but the team they are going to has expensive equipment, carriers full of American merchandise that costs several thousand of dollars, motorcycles, only the best way. I am very confused on why this sort of thing is posted yet everything is first class at all costs with this team. 
 

truly I believe that this team will self explode. John is pro Bible college. The Beauchamps are against them. Team Zambia has military guns from America, motorcycles, expensive vehicles, and apparently the Beauchamps are promoting a life of poverty selling all your stuff and living day to day. How will this work amongst the Zambian people unless this has been purposely designed by John to gaslight the people. 

[Giraffe]

4 hours ago, Bluegrin said:

It’s very interesting that the Beauchamps post this quote by a George Muller who is a man who sold everything he had and lived day to day. From what I read on Google about this muller that he had over a couple thousand orphans and the money was given by God. Apparently they had no endowments. Regardless Beauchamp quotes this guy over and over relentlessly on his page but the team they are going to has expensive equipment, carriers full of American merchandise that costs several thousand of dollars, motorcycles, only the best way. I am very confused on why this sort of thing is posted yet everything is first class at all costs with this team. 
 

truly I believe that this team will self explode. John is pro Bible college. The Beauchamps are against them. Team Zambia has military guns from America, motorcycles, expensive vehicles, and apparently the Beauchamps are promoting a life of poverty selling all your stuff and living day to day. How will this work amongst the Zambian people unless this has been purposely designed by John to gaslight the people. 

They have guns there? How'd they manage that one? That's terrifying. 

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Then why go to his church? That's what I find odd. They've been going to John's church for years, but aren't saved? If that's the case, you'd think they'd wonder why. 

I suspect there are people who are in some agreement with doctrine, who go because family/friends do and/or they feel sorry for Esther and the children. John is never going to be certain they're really truly saved because 1. They're Zambian, 2. They may be disagreeing with him in a language he can't speak, 3. They're not immediately and obviously deferring to him. Who knows, maybe they work weekdays and only come once to church on Sundays, or perhaps volunteer at a charity which they regard as part of being Christian (works! The horror!). 

And hey, maybe there are people just there for the social element and the free food, and it's closer than the other churches.

[Pleiades_06]

Did John have this problem in the US? 

[Bluegrin]

The Beauchamps just posted this. They are as crazy about food as John is. Where does John find these people? I pity the Zambian people.

[Xan]

2 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Did John have this problem in the US? 

Oh my, yes.  He started out as an assistant pastor at his dad's church and that didn't go so well.  After that he was an assistant pastor for about a year and a half at some church in Washington state.  Then he did a church plant in Oregon and that went belly up.  That's when he got the idea to go to Africa.  I think the church in Oregon actually closed but may have reopened some time later under new leadership.  (He was doing so badly in, I think, Oregon that he, Esther, and several children lived in a pop-up camper in someone's back yard.)

John does not play well with others and doesn't seem to be able to be managed by senior pastors.  He's bad at organization and lacks the interpersonal skills necessary for a pastor.  

I think Daddy Rick is trying to get him some help to grow the Zambian church before he himself dies or retires and the Katy church pulls funding.  Unfortunately, the sort of people drawn to this type of mission are a bit like John.  I'll give it six months before everything implodes and the support staff either leaves or starts a mission of their own.

[FiveAcres]

I can't imagine that John's approach, which seems to be "you aren't saved until I am satisfied that you have jumped through all of my hoops," would play well with at all with people in the US. Even most devout fundies are pretty sure that their interpretation of the bits of Bible that they bother to read are correct, and will up-sticks and move to another church in the pastor preaches too much that contradicts what they believe.

[Giraffe]

How many people attend John's services for their own amusement at this point? The guy is off the rails! I'd love to be a fly on the wall after a stupid-long service!

[Gobsmacked]

On 10/29/2023 at 5:44 PM, Giraffe said:

How many people attend John's services for their own amusement at this point? The guy is off the rails! I'd love to be a fly on the wall after a stupid-long service!

I’ve thought this for a while. Somewhere to sit, chat and catch up with neighbours. Food afterwards.  Even if John has picked up a few words of the language, I’m betting the locals use local words and dialect to prevent eavesdropping by the big white saviour and his kids - who will act as spies for Daddy no doubt. 

[tankgirl]

On 10/28/2023 at 11:15 PM, Bluegrin said:

It’s very interesting that the Beauchamps post this quote by a George Muller who is a man who sold everything he had and lived day to day. From what I read on Google about this muller that he had over a couple thousand orphans and the money was given by God. Apparently they had no endowments. Regardless Beauchamp quotes this guy over and over relentlessly on his page but the team they are going to has expensive equipment, carriers full of American merchandise that costs several thousand of dollars, motorcycles, only the best way. I am very confused on why this sort of thing is posted yet everything is first class at all costs with this team. 
 

truly I believe that this team will self explode. John is pro Bible college. The Beauchamps are against them. Team Zambia has military guns from America, motorcycles, expensive vehicles, and apparently the Beauchamps are promoting a life of poverty selling all your stuff and living day to day. How will this work amongst the Zambian people unless this has been purposely designed by John to gaslight the people. 

Omg this guy hits close to home.

 

I did research on Muller and the orphanages are all still around though now the last of them has been converted to flats.  I struggled to find any non-church based information on him, outside one lady who was very angry at his decision to not take in children who had been born out of wedlock, even if they were in dire need. This lady ended up adopting two children he refused to help. I forget her name but have seen her grave. Muller would later on take half orphans,  those with one living parent, but never accepted children who through no fault of their own were born to unmarried parents.

 

John would have loved Mullers insistence that he never asked for money God just provided. Despite locals knowing he had orphans he was housing and them providing left over milk from their day as a milk man or left over bread as a Baker. It clearly wasn't these neighbours seeing a preacher up to his eyeballs in starving kids, who were stuff in the early days in a few regular houses and trying to help, no it was God. Each time Muller wanted more space it was all God, despite everyone in town knowing his plan and probably a lot of neighbours early on wanting to see the about 100 kids housed over several houses all on one street off the block. 

I will say some history says that he did some good, but I really wish I could find more information not tied to a church.

And this Zambia lot are just like John like to pretend all the people who hear from church or from these people directly about their needs aren't giving money it's all God. They definitely share this delusion with Mueller and each other, it's one of the few things that ties them together.

[Ozlsn]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:19 AM, tankgirl said:

Muller would later on take half orphans,  those with one living parent, but never accepted children who through no fault of their own were born to unmarried parents

What. A. Jerk. "I'll help the innocent children... not those ones".

I'm with the angry lady, what an utter asshole. Was he afraid of being contaminated by original sin or something?

[Xan]

Someone must have said something to John about their child hoarding.  He has a long post up about how blessed he is in his marriage and how wonderful it is to have that many children.  He also wants us to know that it's not because of Bill Gothard and he's not doing for the fame (hint, hint, Duggars) but because it's Biblical and godly.  

Yeah, John.  You aren't thinking about Esther that much here.  Her body is probably about worn out with having all those kids.  It's funny how that discussion never comes up with the fundies.  I've never heard any of them say, "But what about my wife's health?"

Spoiler

 

[Pleiades_06]

2 hours ago, Xan said:

Someone must have said something to John about their child hoarding.  He has a long post up about how blessed he is in his marriage and how wonderful it is to have that many children.  He also wants us to know that it's not because of Bill Gothard and he's not doing for the fame (hint, hint, Duggars) but because it's Biblical and godly.  

Yeah, John.  You aren't thinking about Esther that much here.  Her body is probably about worn out with having all those kids.  It's funny how that discussion never comes up with the fundies.  I've never heard any of them say, "But what about my wife's health?"

  Hide contents

 

He‘s distancing himself from the people“seeking fame for family size“-the Duggars? I wonder what Anna‘s relationship to Esther is like.

Anyone know what the three oldest kids were doing back in the US?

[Giraffe]

30 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Anyone know what the three oldest kids were doing back in the US?

Spouse hunting.

The adult children may have been required to leave Zambia for a time before getting their own visas independent of John & Esther. 

[gustava]

Does anyone know what King John does on Thanksgiving?

[Xan]

28 minutes ago, gustava said:

Does anyone know what King John does on Thanksgiving?

My guess is that he sits around and waits for someone to make the food.  I would suppose that he'll contribute a long-winded blessing before they eat.

[Xan]

John finally put up some new posts on Facebook.  Here they are with translations:

Spoiler

"I don't have to make sure my children have appropriate clothing, enough food, or a decent education.  I made sure their souls were saved!"

Spoiler

"I am much too brilliant to be preaching to people who don't even speak English.  I should be somewhere -- possibly a 17th century monastery -- where I can discuss the finer points of religion."

[Giraffe]

1 hour ago, Xan said:

John finally put up some new posts on Facebook.  Here they are with translations:

  Hide contents

"I don't have to make sure my children have appropriate clothing, enough food, or a decent education.  I made sure their souls were saved!"

  Hide contents

"I am much too brilliant to be preaching to people who don't even speak English.  I should be somewhere -- possibly a 17th century monastery -- where I can discuss the finer points of religion."

"My children are salvation objects and that is all. That I provide food and a roof sets me far above everyone else." 

[gustava]

17 hours ago, Xan said:

John finally put up some new posts on Facebook.  Here they are with translations:

  Hide contents

"I don't have to make sure my children have appropriate clothing, enough food, or a decent education.  I made sure their souls were saved!"

  Hide contents

"I am much too brilliant to be preaching to people who don't even speak English.  I should be somewhere -- possibly a 17th century monastery -- where I can discuss the finer points of religion."

My head is still spinning, trying to wade through King John's gobbledegook.  Yucko!

[Xan]

Uh-oh.  Someone has been peeing in John's Cheerios again.  He seems to have a real bone to pick with anyone who goes to church for the sense of community and doesn't study the Bible as if it is a college course.  I sense that he's getting complaints again from people who are pointing out John's petty legalisms.  I do hope he's getting blowback from Wade.

Spoiler

 

[Xan]

And today we have this:

Is attendance down?  Has the Katy, TX church lost some members?  I guess John has the same beliefs that Bro Gary has.  God can't find you if you're not sitting in a pew.

[Giraffe]

Wow, shit must be going down in Kafue. He's posted a lot more than usual it seems! I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the three families.

[anjulibai]

Maybe Wade has told them church is more than 5 hour long sermons, and suggested more community activities?

[gustava]

"...as ye see the day approaching."

A threat or a promise?

[Xan]

1 hour ago, gustava said:

"...as ye see the day approaching."

A threat or a promise?

Probably both.  The fundamentalists all look forward to End Times and the great tribulation.  They think God will come down and separate the wheat from the chaff.  God will put all those pious Christians who have suffered their entire lives and sacrificed all happiness on one side and put the heathens on the other.  The fundies will go to heaven and sing with the angels, walk on a golden street, and I suppose spend eternity patting themselves on the back.  

I'm going to be on the side with the heathens and I'm okay with that.