Where in the World is Doug Phillips? Part 13

[Howl]

10 hours ago, marmalade said:

I was wondering if anyone dug up more dirt on his dealings back then.

Thinking back, I'm not remembering any instances of financial skullduggery or embezzlement. Leininger is a hard core business man; possibly that huge donation to Vision Forum came with a mandate for financial oversight with outside auditors. 

HOWEVER, IIRC (and I might not be), Doug absconded from HSLDA with a mailing list that was the seed for the Vision Forum business arm. 

 @hoipolloi, you're better with institutional memory. Could you expand on this? 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Howl

[Bassett Lady]

9 minutes ago, Howl said:

Doug absconded from HSLDA with a mailing list that was the seed for the Vision Forum business arm. 

 

Yes, Doug stole the mailing list from his employer, HSLDA. That list became the seed for his catalog business of overpriced junk. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

 @hoipolloi, you're better with institutional memory. Could you expand on this? 

Yes, the purloined email list *has long been rumored to be* the source of VFʻs customer base.

Obviously, neither Dougie nor HSLDA has ever confirmed this. It seems likely that during VFʻs heyday, HSLDA went along to get along with their erstwhile employee since Dougieʻs antics also made them a lot of money at the various HS conferences & state conventions.

ETA: By the time of Tool OʻWeen, years of raking in the cash from the sheeple had gone by during which both VF & HSLDA profited handsomely so the latter were hardly in a position to do anything.

Edited November 27, 2023 by hoipolloi
Corrected wording & adding comment

[ptm6114]

Sorry if I missed this, was Vision Forum attached to a specific church? I read in the court documents concerning Lourdes, the "elders" were mentioned. Was VF ever officially attached to IFB or IBLP? 

[noseybutt]

6 minutes ago, ptm6114 said:

Sorry if I missed this, was Vision Forum attached to a specific church? I read in the court documents concerning Lourdes, the "elders" were mentioned. Was VF ever officially attached to IFB or IBLP? 

Vision Forum (like IBLP)was a para-church group that had both a non-profit wing and a commercial/for-profit side that sold toys, homeschool curriculum, books, etc. 

AFAIK there was no connection with IBLP. There was some similar beliefs--patriarchy, homeschooling--but also some different beliefs. IBLP was/is very Baptist while Vision Forum is neo-Calvinist. So, for example, the Vision Forum people advocated infant baptism but IBLP did not.

I suspect that there was a lot of overlap at conservative Christian homeschooling conventions where both groups would show up. Same target audience.

[hoipolloi]

49 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Vision Forum (like IBLP)was a para-church group that had both a non-profit wing and a commercial/for-profit side that sold toys, homeschool curriculum, books, etc. 

Doug & his family attended the "church" he founded and ran, Boerne Christian Assembly. IIRC, the BCA were not affiliated with any larger denomination. Doug was sanctioned by those elders in 2013 and forced to resign his position there. The elders then issued a "clarification" of his sins in January 2014.

By summer 2014, the remaining BCA elders became angry that Doug left BCA, completely ignoring the elaborate procedure he had insisted people follow when they joined another church.

ETA: while looking for some of the historical articles on BCA, I turned up this interesting overview of a 2009 attack on CPS & similar agencies by Doug & his cohorts.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by hoipolloi
Added info

[Jasmar]

That whole thing was such a circus! It was Tooloween that led me to FJ, and I’m pretty sure someone here linked to Jen’s Gems, so I spent a couple of weeks down that insane clown poses rabbit hole. Fun times, fun times.

[Howl]

On 11/30/2023 at 2:19 PM, hoipolloi said:

Doug & his family attended the "church" he founded and ran, Boerne Christian Assembly

I never really got how Doug Phillips ended up establishing Boerne Christian Assembly; the church met way the heck out in the country in a little white church building with no plumbing and I don't even know about electricity.  I looked it up at some point in the past.  They had a rudimentary web page; it required you to contact them before they'd divulge the church location.  Presumably they wanted to check out potential congregants for doctrinal purity and to keep out godless miscreants who wanted to see what was going on there. 

Nothing pops up online anymore. 

On 11/30/2023 at 3:33 PM, Jasmar said:

I’m pretty sure someone here linked to Jen’s Gems, so I spent a couple of weeks down that insane clown posse rabbit hole.

Heh!  Jen's Gems is still the rabbit hole to end all rabbit holes. 

Even now, whenever Jen pivots to a new belief, she goes all in. 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I never really got how Doug Phillips ended up establishing Boerne Christian Assembly; the church met way the heck out in the country in a little white church building with no plumbing and I don't even know about electricity. 

According to the first part of Jen's account, the BCA was out in the hill country outside of San Antonio. 

FWIW, longtime FJ poster Palimpsest shared this info, provided by reliable sources:

Quote

 

[Writing in July 2014] 

Boerne Christian Assembly was founded in late 1998 or 1999 and met at a Leininger owned property in Sinking Springs initially. Doug Phillips was in from the beginning, in conjunction with Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler, Norm Wakefield, and Bob Welch. They were all (probably) named Provisional Elders at the beginning. Wheeler, Wakefield and Welch (the 3 Ws) all had their own ministries going already, and DPIAT was starting VFI/VFM.

Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler, Living Waters: lwfchurch.org

Norm Wakefield, Elijah Ministries: spiritofelijah.com

Bob Welch, Bible Teaching Ministries - now in Fredericksburg, TX with Fredericksburg Christian Fellowship: bibleteachingministries.net

 

There is a lot more in that old thread.

[Howl]

15 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

According to the first part of Jen's account, the BCA was out in the hill country outside of San Antonio. 

Yes, in the Hill Country outside of Boerne.  Boerne is a lovely little town that is in the process of becoming a commuter community for San Antonio, due to I-10 and the staggering speed of San Antonio suburban sprawl.   

I tracked down the location of the original church when we were headed to Boerne back in the day.  It's definitely out there.  I'm surprised Leininger didn't have an urban location for the church. 

Quote

Bob Welch, Bible Teaching Ministries - now in Fredericksburg, TX with Fredericksburg Christian Fellowship: 

I wonder if that is the church the Penningtons attended for a bit, commuting from Kerrville to F-burg, because I guess no church in Kerrville had the requisite oppressive doctrinal purity.  If it's the one I'm thinking of, you weren't allowed to join the church if you were divorced, no exceptions. 

Bob Welch was at Trinity Church until 2019, but there is still a  Fredericksburg Christian Fellowship (now branded as One God.info).  The main guy at Fredericksburg Christian Fellowship (Cornett) became the pastor at Trinity when Welch left/retired, but is still listed as the pastor for Fredericksburg Christian Fellowship.  Trinity is not NCFIC. 

Trinity Church believes in the End Times and has this to say about Civil Government in their statement of faith: "XVI. Of Civil Government: We believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society (83); and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored and obeyed (84); except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ (85) who is the only Lord of the conscience, and the Prince of the kings of the earth (86)."

I guess we know who they support and where they were on Jan. 6.  

[Cults-r-us]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:33 PM, Jasmar said:

That whole thing was such a circus! It was Tooloween that led me to FJ, and I’m pretty sure someone here linked to Jen’s Gems, so I spent a couple of weeks down that insane clown poses rabbit hole. Fun times, fun times.

I had heard neither of our dude, the Tool nor Vision Forum, or FJ. But I had discovered NLQ and Patheos and was reading an article by Libby Anne which was interrupted by BIG BREAKING NEWS Tooloween Scandal. In the course of trying to figure out the who and what, I discovered both FJ and Jen's Gems.

      Fundies just aren't as fun to follow these days since casting aside their frumpers and blogging. And that Toolorama was a gift that kept on giving for a long time.

[Antipatriarch]

I miss Libby Anne.

[Columbia]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:23 PM, ptm6114 said:

I have read a few things of Vision Forum being adamantly against social services and child protective services. Do any of you have any credible sources or direct quotes from Vision Forum or the Philips’ family to support this? Or anything related to child abuse/child endangerment? TIA!

This is from the 2014 catalog, printed right before VF went under.  It's pretty par with the fearmongering that you'd find about CPS snatching children away in the middle of the night.

I've always wondered about the connections between Homeschool Legal Defense Association and Heritage Defense. They seem to do basically the same thing

Spoiler

[neuroticcat]

No joke had a dream last night that I went to church and it turned out there was a "guest preacher" and it was Doug. And no one knew who he was. So when he went up to the podium I said "Booooo" Princess Bride style and stood up and listed his crimes. And he silently gathered his notes and exited. And I'm not going to lie, that proud feeling of doing a Good Thing lingered into my morning. 

[Howl]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:52 PM, Columbia said:

I've always wondered about the connections between Homeschool Legal Defense Association and Heritage Defense. They seem to do basically the same thing

Talk about rampant fear mongering.  Heritage Defense is a subscription based service structured as a 501(c)(3)  with access for $190/year, and they do vet the applicants for their services.   The two founders are not slackers - one is a Baylor Law School grad, the other is a  Texas Tech Law School grad.   One guy has 7 kids, the other has 10. 

They are, of course, two Texans way deep into extreme Xtian fundamentalism and are exclusively oriented to defending hardcore Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers and all the legal issues arising from  the usual: child beating, medical treatment issues, homebirths, anti vax, attracting the attention of CPS and whatever else brings these wing nuts  into conflict with civil authorities.    They go way beyond HSLDA.  I suspect that when they take a case, they are in touch with a network of other similar  lawyers in the US; whoever has passed the bar in the state where a case is brought. 

Snippet from the "Who we are and mission" portion of their Web site, which references dominion mandate, Christian home, Christian civilization, enemies of God, Satan, destruction of marriage and the Christian family, God-fearing, Biblical practices,  God's commands and so on: 

Spoiler

"The Christian home is the cradle of the Gospel, the incubator of leadership for the church and Christian civilization, the command center for crafting dominion mandate strategies, the boot camp in which Soldiers of the Cross are made ready, and the seminary in which Believers are equipped to make disciples of all nations. It is small wonder that the enemies of God despise the Christian home; nor is it surprising that Satan wages his most determined wars to destroy marriage, steal the hearts and minds of children, and reduce the Christian family to poverty and ruin. If the enemy succeeds, he destroys not just the family, but the church and the nation as well...

...The Gospel is slandered every time a Christian family is criminalized for obeying God’s word. Christian zeal is chilled whenever a God-fearing family is persecuted or intimidated for honoring God. Christendom is harmed when followers of Christ are threatened and even destroyed for following the direction of Scripture.

Heritage Defense is a non-profit legal advocacy organization dedicated to advancing the Kingdom of Christ by protecting and empowering the biblical family. Our strategy for accomplishing this mission is simple. By uniting Christian families across the country as members of Heritage Defense, we hope to help the Body of Christ join together in protecting one another, defending the Gospel, advancing biblical practices, and championing the causes of those unlawfully persecuted by the state for obeying God’s commands in raising their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."

 

 

https://heritagedefense.org/

Edited December 26, 2023 by Howl

[noseybutt]

15 minutes ago, Howl said:

Talk about rampant fear mongering.  Heritage Defense is a subscription based service structured as a 501(c)(3)  with access for $190/year, and they do vet the applicants for their services.   The two founders are not slackers - one is a Baylor Law School grad, the other is a  Texas Tech Law School grad.   One guy has 7 kids, the other has 10. 

They are, of course, two Texans way deep into extreme Xtian fundamentalism and are exclusively oriented to defending hardcore Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers and all the legal issues arising from  the usual: child beating, medical treatment issues, homebirths, anti vax, attracting the attention of CPS and whatever else brings these wing nuts  into conflict with civil authorities.    They go way beyond HSLDA.  I suspect that when they take a case, they are in touch with a network of other similar  lawyers in the US; whoever has passed the bar in the state where a case is brought. 

Snippet from the "Who we are and mission" portion of their Web site, which references dominion mandate, Christian home, Christian civilization, enemies of God, Satan, destruction of marriage and the Christian family, God-fearing, Biblical practices,  God's commands and so on: 

  Reveal hidden contents

"The Christian home is the cradle of the Gospel, the incubator of leadership for the church and Christian civilization, the command center for crafting dominion mandate strategies, the boot camp in which Soldiers of the Cross are made ready, and the seminary in which Believers are equipped to make disciples of all nations. It is small wonder that the enemies of God despise the Christian home; nor is it surprising that Satan wages his most determined wars to destroy marriage, steal the hearts and minds of children, and reduce the Christian family to poverty and ruin. If the enemy succeeds, he destroys not just the family, but the church and the nation as well...

...The Gospel is slandered every time a Christian family is criminalized for obeying God’s word. Christian zeal is chilled whenever a God-fearing family is persecuted or intimidated for honoring God. Christendom is harmed when followers of Christ are threatened and even destroyed for following the direction of Scripture.

Heritage Defense is a non-profit legal advocacy organization dedicated to advancing the Kingdom of Christ by protecting and empowering the biblical family. Our strategy for accomplishing this mission is simple. By uniting Christian families across the country as members of Heritage Defense, we hope to help the Body of Christ join together in protecting one another, defending the Gospel, advancing biblical practices, and championing the causes of those unlawfully persecuted by the state for obeying God’s commands in raising their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."

 

 

https://heritagedefense.org/

I know zilch about Heritage Defense but do know that over the years HSLDA would “partner” with various “family protection” ministries. These were small nonprofits typically staffed by male attorneys/legal assistants who would step in when someone who paid annual dues to HSLDA needed legal representation. In some cases I think the attorneys would have a regular legal practice and then a nonprofit side. They also would lobby state legislators, since k-12 education is most handled by the states and not the federal government.

[bea]

I've posted gift articles from the Washington Post on this board that are all about the nonsense research and tragic outcomes of homeschooling.  Might be useful to anyone interested in the SOTDRT.

[RulerOfTheQueensNavy]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:09 PM, Howl said:

I never really got how Doug Phillips ended up establishing Boerne Christian Assembly; the church met way the heck out in the country in a little white church building with no plumbing and I don't even know about electricity. 

I thought it met in Doug's (Leininger's) home.  At least it was there when Dad and I visited once in 2004/2005 ish. Can't remember why we were in San Antonio and usually we stayed with the Wakefields, but I had just gone through my first (or second) awful courtship experience so it's a little fuzzy in my head and Dad wanted me to talk to Doug about it.  That experience...was painful.

[hoipolloi]

8 hours ago, RulerOfTheQueensNavy said:

I thought it met in Doug's (Leininger's) home. 

Iʻm sure you remember correctly -- at the least, Doug used that home as a church social center. There were lots of photos on his blog showing various get-togethers, etc. at the house. 

My impression was that country church building was used primarily or only for Sunday services + "pot providence" meals, as those hypocrites liked to call it. 

[Columbia]

If you haven't seen the latest Southern Baptist Convention implosion, it involves Paul Pressler, one of the big hot shots of the SBC's conservative takeover back in the 80s and a bunch of people who apparently knew for decades that he liked to be naked with young men.

Spoiler

And look who was among the people protecting him. None other than Howard Phillips.
 

Spoiler

 

[Hane]

I’m shocked, I tell you—*shocked*.

[ptm6114]

Have you ever looked at a photo of someone and you can just tell they’re an absolute creep?!  
 

And the Phillips’ absolutely worship that man! I mean of course they do 😂

Edited January 25 by ptm6114
Misquoted

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, ptm6114 said:

And the Phillips’ absolutely worship that man!

ESPECIALLY Doug. He frequently wrote admiring posts about his father on Doug's Blog.

Somehow, I suspect that even if he knew that his father covered for sexual predator Paul Pressler, Doug wouldnʻt give a toss. 

[Columbia]

Kevin Swanson's page is up on Cinema of Wonder, and boy is there some wild stuff there.
 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

To whomever is making that page: Did you ever hear his take on what to do with pastors/church leaders who wind up committing heinous atrocities and abuses in the name of Christ "flake out?"

[hoipolloi]

55 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Did you ever hear his take on what to do with pastors/church leaders who wind up committing heinous atrocities and abuses in the name of Christ "flake out?"

Some additional VF trivia: Swanson's co-host, Adam McManus, was a major ass-kisser of Dougieʻs back in the day, as you might tell from his boo-hooing over the fall of the Tool and VF in this radio broadcast.