Harry & Meghan 13: Doing the Dance of Deniability

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, AmazonGrace said:

Huh I would be a hopeless royal this is just way too subtle for me.

They could be wearing next level petty colors directed at me all day and I would totally miss it   I'd see someone wearing a red coat and I'd think, oh, so and so has a red coat, and be completely unaware that the subtext says "HRH AmazonGrace is a twit"

So funny.

How much of this is the BRFs relationship with the press? In this instance, maybe the coordinated coats are a coincidence. Or a show of unity for something else or someone else. Or an intentional dig. We will never know. What we do know is what the press (notoriously unreliable) has said. 

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, treehugger said:

Cute that maybe wearing matching clothes as a sign of solitary is next level pettiness but making a documentary dragging everyone in your immediate family through the mud isn’t.  

I've never understood people who protect abusers in their family by remaining silent. In my view, they are almost as guilty as the abusers themselves.

Luckily, H&M have protected Archie and Lili from that type of generational abuse.

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

7 hours ago, Loveday said:

It's very possible, even likely, that wardrobes for this event were chosen ages ago, and have nothing to do with The Two Most Amazing Ex-Working Royals Ever. So that article about all the maroon may well have been some humorous shit-stirring by the media. Not like THAT has never happened before, amirite?😏

That's what my daughter said.  Those outfits were ordered weeks ago not last week or this week and while they may have done a little color coordination, it had zero to do with the claims aired in the six episodes.  

[apandaaries]

49 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

That's what my daughter said.  Those outfits were ordered weeks ago not last week or this week and while they may have done a little color coordination, it had zero to do with the claims aired in the six episodes.  

We’re not discussing a fast-acting institution. They’re living by old rules and standards; one new, loud family member isn’t going to change the machinations of the palace. 
 

Compelled to add that the Murdoch-funded article about MM was abhorrent. Thankfully, there’s been a lot of backlash. I don’t have stats and data about their coverage, but I do recall Catherine being quite persecuted for quite awhile (up to and including topless shots printed!). 
This also makes me curious as to how much control the firm has over the media. Coverage will always be based on selling copies. I don’t think there’s a clear line of power here. There can be some cooperation, but the ultimate goals of the two (media and royals) aren’t aligned necessarily. There will be conflict. 
I suspect in this nebulous area, Harry has blamed his family. But I also suspect the press is doing what it will: following the money. That means scandals or intrigue or making stuff up, so long as it sells. 

[noseybutt]

13 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

We’re not discussing a fast-acting institution. They’re living by old rules and standards; one new, loud family member isn’t going to change the machinations of the palace. 
 

Compelled to add that the Murdoch-funded article about MM was abhorrent. Thankfully, there’s been a lot of backlash. I don’t have stats and data about their coverage, but I do recall Catherine being quite persecuted for quite awhile (up to and including topless shots printed!). 
This also makes me curious as to how much control the firm has over the media. Coverage will always be based on selling copies. I don’t think there’s a clear line of power here. There can be some cooperation, but the ultimate goals of the two (media and royals) aren’t aligned necessarily. There will be conflict. 
I suspect in this nebulous area, Harry has blamed his family. But I also suspect the press is doing what it will: following the money. That means scandals or intrigue or making stuff up, so long as it sells. 

The bolded: 100%. Correct me if I’m wrong on this (since I haven’t managed much of the documentary) but the claim is that the BRF does, at times, offer correction or statements to the made up allegations while, at other times, letting the false allegations stand. I don’t think Harry is under the impression that the BRF has the power to control the narrative. It’s more like they prioritize how they respond to the press and his family wasn’t the priority.

 

[apandaaries]

58 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

The bolded: 100%. Correct me if I’m wrong on this (since I haven’t managed much of the documentary) but the claim is that the BRF does, at times, offer correction or statements to the made up allegations while, at other times, letting the false allegations stand. I don’t think Harry is under the impression that the BRF has the power to control the narrative. It’s more like they prioritize how they respond to the press and his family wasn’t the priority.

 

This has been such a long-standing issue. If you examine Shakespeare, his plays focus on the true monarch regaining the throne, despite adversaries and adverse events. (Hey, the first Queen E loved the theatre and funded it accordingly! He played to his paying audience.)

How does a monarchy defend itself, when it exists solely on the basis of birth?

Shakespeare gave favorable coverage (Milton did NOT). Both found audiences, but different venues. 

Since  the printing press, information has been widely dispersed, for better or ill (hello internet and American elections!).  A lot of it is bullshit, but some of it is true.

How much are the public owed by a monarch? What does it mean to dismantle the institution? Where do we go from here?

The Scots chose to stay aligned with the UK. People apparently have investment in the institution. I’m American; this is foreign to me. 
Is Harry‘s ultimate goal to destroy it all? What are his aims? What are he and MM hoping to achieve with this? I’m all for striking against racism, but I’m not sure if that’s what they’re doing. I remain slightly befuddled and welcome explanations. 

 

[prayawaythefundie]

I‘m not sure Harry has a clear aim besides making money to keep the lifestyle he is used to. Other than that I believe him to be lashing out simply out of spite. And of course he is influenced by Meghan but her I can figure out even less. She does want attention though.

Edited December 19, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[noseybutt]

25 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I‘m not sure Harry has a clear aim besides making money to keep the lifestyle he is used to. Other than that I believe him to be lashing out simply out of spite. And of course he is influenced by Meghan but her I can figure out even less. She does want attention though.

Yeah I don’t think they know what they want—other than a wealthy life outside the BRF. 

I do believe Harry is very much a Royalist and would go back the the BRF in a heartbeat if the family met his demands. His beef is with the personalities, not the institution.

IMO part of what makes Meghan complex is how she has morphed on racial identity. She claims that she never encountered racism in SoCal and that her mother never gave her “the talk.” Those claims make sense to me if she was white-identifying and white-passing. It’s more of a head scratcher if she was part of the black community. (And it’s confusing knowing what’s what since her story does change.)

Either way, she seems to have been taken off guard  when she encountered racism in the UK. It seems like she was trying to figure out her identity—something most people have already grappled with at a much younger age.

[Jackie3]

39 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Either way, she seems to have been taken off guard  when she encountered racism in the UK. It seems like she was trying to figure out her identity—something most people have already grappled with at a much younger age.

I think she was trying to figure out why people were calling her ugly names. 

[klein_roeschen]

6 minutes ago, noseybutt said:

Yeah I don’t think they know what they want—other than a wealthy life outside the BRF. 

I do believe Harry is very much a Royalist and would go back the the BRF in a heartbeat if the family met his demands. His beef is with the personalities, not the institution.

IMO part of what makes Meghan complex is how she has morphed on racial identity. She claims that she never encountered racism in SoCal and that her mother never gave her “the talk.” Those claims make sense to me if she was white-identifying and white-passing. It’s more of a head scratcher if she was part of the black community. (And it’s confusing knowing what’s what since her story does change.)

Either way, she seems to have been taken off guard  when she encountered racism in the UK. It seems like she was trying to figure out her identity—something most people have already grappled with at a much younger age.

I think what Harry is now biting in the butt is that for most of his life he hasn't to look for what to do. The staff was responsible for his appointments, provided the background info for said appointments, the transportation to and from it, told him what is proper to wear. The military with his rules and chain of command the same, different flavour of the same dish. And no shame with that, many people, myself included, are happy to have a job where they tell you what to do and where your responsibilities are clear cut. But he is out now and he has to look after that himself and so far he seems failing at that.

And regarding Megan, I think she knows who she is and what she wants as a whole person. But her trouble is building up her public persona. Joining the british royals comes with a build in audiance and lots of public attention. And she seems to want that. But attention is not always positive and she seems to not deal well with backlash and critics.

[Coconut Flan]

9 hours ago, noseybutt said:

Either way, she seems to have been taken off guard  when she encountered racism in the UK. It seems like she was trying to figure out her identity—something most people have already grappled with at a much younger age.

In Los Angeles, Meghan was accepted as mixed race and in many situations as white or whitish.  As her agent said, he didn't realize she was mixed race at first. He thought she was SoCal sun kissed.  She was not subjected, more than likely, to things like driving while Black, followed around stores, etc.,  I never have been.  She lived a much closer to white experience.  She certainly wouldn't have had monkey jokes thrown at her.  People thought her mother was a nanny.  She would get that second hand racism, but not directly and personally.   So in fact, she was likely caught off guard to be called Black and treated that way.  Her identity has as far as I can tell has always been as biracial or mixed and acknowledging both parts of her heritage. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Coconut Flan

[Four is Enough]

OMG. There is this thing called fashion. Fashion dictates what the colors are at the moment. Apparently, this years color is maroon, and when rich people buy a new coat, they buy something fashionable, in color, cut, or both. So no conspiracy. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

OMG. There is this thing called fashion. Fashion dictates what the colors are at the moment. Apparently, this years color is maroon, and when rich people buy a new coat, they buy something fashionable, in color, cut, or both. So no conspiracy. 

Some rich people just buy what they like. Some rich people don't even follow fashion. Do you think Steve Jobs followed fashion, or Bill Gates?

I have no idea what happened with the coats. I'd like to think they weren't that petty. I'd hope they wouldn't involve a young child, who might possibly be innocent and pure enough to love her aunt. Perhaps they wore red because it was Xmas. Who knows? 

But the article scheming and supposing about a grand conspiracy seemed quite sad.

[Jackie3]

A new Netflix series is coming for Meghan and Harry. Netflix must be delighted with the documentary viewing results.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/prince-harry-meghan-markle-netflix-docuseries-live-to-lead-1235465192/

It's one success after another for this golden couple. I wonder how many millions they'll make this time.

I imagine they are thrilled.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Jackie3

[noseybutt]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

In Los Angeles, Meghan was accepted as mixed race and in many situations as white or whitish.  As her agent said, he didn't realize she was mixed race at first. He thought she was SoCal sun kissed.  She was not subjected, more than likely, to things like driving while Black, followed around stores, etc.,  I never have been.  She lived a much closer to white experience.  She certainly wouldn't have had monkey jokes thrown at her.  People thought her mother was a nanny.  She would get that second hand racism, but not directly and personally.   So in fact, she was likely caught off guard to be called Black and treated that way.  Her identity has as far as I can tell has always been as biracial or mixed and acknowledging both parts of her heritage. 

Makes sense. The change wasn’t in how she identified but how she was perceived.

[Manda]

https://www.upi.com/Voices/2022/12/19/Meghan-Markle-Prince-Harry-Netflix-royal-victims/9531671456547/

Quote

The Netflix documentary conveys the impression that Harry and Markle have been uniquely victimized. But many of the difficulties they faced are shared by all the royal families of Europe.

It is monarchy which is unique, in the extraordinary demands it makes of close members of the royal family. The public tend to think that royals lead very privileged lives, in glittering palaces with lots of servants. But in truth, it is a gilded cage.

Quote

"It should be possible for minor royals to opt out of the gilded cage if they find the restrictions too great. But opting out would need to be total: giving up not just their public duties, but their public funding, their royal titles, their security -- trying as far as possible to become private people."

 

[louisa05]

17 hours ago, apandaaries said:

We’re not discussing a fast-acting institution. They’re living by old rules and standards; one new, loud family member isn’t going to change the machinations of the palace. 
 

Compelled to add that the Murdoch-funded article about MM was abhorrent. Thankfully, there’s been a lot of backlash. I don’t have stats and data about their coverage, but I do recall Catherine being quite persecuted for quite awhile (up to and including topless shots printed!). 
This also makes me curious as to how much control the firm has over the media. Coverage will always be based on selling copies. I don’t think there’s a clear line of power here. There can be some cooperation, but the ultimate goals of the two (media and royals) aren’t aligned necessarily. There will be conflict. 
I suspect in this nebulous area, Harry has blamed his family. But I also suspect the press is doing what it will: following the money. That means scandals or intrigue or making stuff up, so long as it sells. 

The Hilary Mantel piece was the worst since her marriage. Prior to marriage, there were the billboards on buses mocking her. Not sure when there were billboards mocking M. But I'm sure there were. In her head at least. 

[Jackie3]

18 hours ago, apandaaries said:

We’re not discussing a fast-acting institution. They’re living by old rules and standards; one new, loud family member isn’t going to change the machinations of the palace. 
 

Compelled to add that the Murdoch-funded article about MM was abhorrent. 
 

Protesting racism makes you “loud.”

Protecting yourself and your babies from death threats….also loud.

Trying to protect your family = trying to change an institution before it’s ready.

Well behaved women rarely make history. Loud is good.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Jackie3

[Jackie3]

The Sussexes are doing well indeed. And they have a second Netflix series coming out soon.

 

[DalmatianCat]

18 hours ago, apandaaries said:

Is Harry‘s ultimate goal to destroy it all? What are his aims? What are he and MM hoping to achieve with this? I’m all for striking against racism, but I’m not sure if that’s what they’re doing. I remain slightly befuddled and welcome explanations. 

I doubt Harry’s goal is to destroy it all…I believe he’s still a monarchist at heart. He’s currently just upset for not getting all the same privileges as his older brother (a fair gripe to a degree, but weird that he has still hasn’t come to terms with it at almost 40).

If he really wanted to destroy the monarchy he would have brought up Andrew (talk about special treatment and the palace protecting someone!), Camilla (because that’s a topic that still gets the die-hard Diana fans riled up), and other things that we don’t know about.

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

I doubt Harry’s goal is to destroy it all…I believe he’s still a monarchist at heart. He’s currently just upset for not getting all the same privileges as his older brother (a fair gripe to a degree, but weird that he has still hasn’t come to terms with it at almost 40).

 

Harry has never shown any signs of wanting what his brother has. Where do people come up with this stuff? He'd hate being king. 

He has shown EVERY sign of wanting a private life. 

[Jackie3]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:33 AM, tabitha2 said:

The palace doesn’t need to say anything or issue any statement. The Sussexes by their own foolishness and blatant  lies are just making The Monarchs and the Wales Look that much better. 

I'm not sure how good they are looking now. This Sun piece is like an early Xmas present for Meghan and Harry. It's validating everything they said. On twitter, there are so many people who are newly supporting them. Jeremy's vileness really helped them.

And Netflix is hiring them for another docuseries. The Sussexes are on a roll of good luck and good fortune.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Jackie3

[just_ordinary]

Don’t know if the horrible piece by Jeremy Clarkson made it across the pond yet. Whoever approved that for print is an idiot (and some other not so positive words). If M ever needed proof of how horrible she has been treated- there it is. 
Bad luck for the BRF that Camilla was invited to a Christmas engagement (Fortnum&Mason iIrc) a few days ago where Piers Morgan and Clarkson were also in attendance and on the weekend this dropped.

I think he has apologised by now and I guess it was mainly to shock and get publicity as his second season of the farm is coming out in February. Or he was his drunk and unbearable self. Whatever, the majority of the public is appalled and rightly so.

[Jackie3]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

If M ever needed proof of how horrible she has been treated- there it

I know!

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Bad luck for the BRF that Camilla was invited to a Christmas engagement (Fortnum&Mason iIrc) a few days ago where Piers Morgan and Clarkson were also in attendance and on the weekend this dropped.

It was her party.

 

[prayawaythefundie]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:04 PM, Jackie3 said:

A new Netflix series is coming for Meghan and Harry. Netflix must be delighted with the documentary viewing results.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/prince-harry-meghan-markle-netflix-docuseries-live-to-lead-1235465192/

It's one success after another for this golden couple. I wonder how many millions they'll make this time.

I imagine they are thrilled.

I stopped reading when they were quoted bringing up Mandela again. To be so full of oneself.