Harry & Meghan 13: Doing the Dance of Deniability

[tabitha2]

So many many things escape you and We dearly wish we could escape you..

[Cat Damon]

7 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Yes, that is what people in love think about. How to act when you meet your loved one's granny.  

Actually yeah they do? I'm an American, and before my beloved grandma passed away it was a big deal for any of her grandchildren to introduce her to a person they were dating. Meeting important members of anyone's family is a pretty big deal and I always want to know some details ahead of time. It's really not that out of question that Meghan should have asked Harry what to do, what Granny's sense of humor was, what Granny was expecting, and if she didn't, he should have given her a heads up.

I would never bring a person to a family function for the first time without background information, and I'm from a fairly average family in the Midwest. 

I told myself I wouldn't engage trolls but that's showbiz, baby.

[Four is Enough]

15 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Personally, I never felt she was mistreated because "no one told her the rules." As an American, why should she follow British rules anyway?

Well, as a child growing up in America, she should have learned the basic rules of courtesy, which includes the younger person taking the lead from the older person as a sign of respect. Given ERII's general show of reserve, I very much doubt she'd have held out her arms to allow anyone to hug her in public, saving possibly a child.

Personally, I think a lot of her mistreatment has been magnified in her mind. I don't deny she's probably been picked on; the British press is downright mean and the BRF has always been pretty insensitive. But she seems to nurture her anger.

And wasn't she going to have to become a British citizen to marry Harry?

[tabitha2]

She holds on to and even cherishes her anger slights and grievances either supposed or real  like a gold medal won in the Victimization Olympics.  It’s her only claim to fame and way to make  money  in the end. 

[viii]

48 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Personally, I think a lot of her mistreatment has been magnified in her mind. I don't deny she's probably been picked on; the British press is downright mean and the BRF has always been pretty insensitive. But she seems to nurture her anger.

I think this is a really good way of phrasing it. She does seem to nurture her anger and hold on to her pain and eventually it has become a crutch. In her defense, though, it's not like this is a one time event that she's been milking for years. To this day, she is still the target of racist comments so rather than work through the anger and put it behind her, she is continually having to deal with it and I can see how it would have her anger grow and grow. 

6 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

She holds on to and even cherishes her anger slights and grievances either supposed or real  like a gold medal won in the Victimization Olympics.  It’s her only claim to fame and way to make  money  in the end. 

I wouldn't say it's her only claim to fame but it's certainly leading the forefront right now and is help paying their bills. I can see why they'd continue to talk about it since it's financial security for them. Eventually that avenue will dry up, though. People won't be interested much longer, and they'll have to think of something new. 🍿

[AmazonGrace]

16 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

What if British protocol required you to kiss the King's toes (barf!) ? Or kowtow 100 times? Or hop in place till he said stop?

What if it doesn't?

But sure, let's hate on them on all the ridiculous things they could ask that you made up.

 

Anyway, if a hypothetical person wanted to marry into the BRF and get them to finance their lifestyle I think their rules and expectations might become a little more relevant.

Edited December 13, 2022 by AmazonGrace

[rosamundi]

2 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

And wasn't she going to have to become a British citizen to marry Harry?

I think the original plan was for her to follow the process for British citizenship after they married, but there was no requirement for Meghan to be a British citizen in order for the marriage to take place (good job, really, it takes ages and they might not be married yet if that had to happen first). As she hasn't lived in the UK for the 270 days in the last three years, she can't currently apply for citizenship.

She would have come in on a family visa, been able to apply for indefinite leave to remain after five years, and then apply for citizenship.

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, Cat Damon said:

Actually yeah they do? I'm an American, and before my beloved grandma passed away it was a big deal for any of her grandchildren to introduce her to a person they were dating. Meeting important members of anyone's family is a pretty big deal and I always want to know some details ahead of time. It's really not that out of question that Meghan should have asked Harry what to do, what Granny's sense of humor was, what Granny was expecting, and if she didn't, he should have given her a heads up.

 

Couples in the infatuation stage: 

"You want me to. meet your grandma? OK, sure."  [Acts politely to the old lady]  Returns to fixation on partner.

[Jackie3]

Quote

She would definitely support William.  

I'm not sure it matters who Diana would've supported. Couples in love are going to do what they are going to do.

Diana would have been the MIL, not a terribly important player in this scenario.  If she were smart, she'd have been nice Meghan, so she didn't alienate her son And so she could see her grandkids! [Charles didn't seem to care about this, so he hardly see them]

Good men choose their wife and children over carping, nitpicking cruel relatives (and their media contacts).

Edited December 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

Diana  would have always had an important place in his life and had at least some say in his doings and choices . She has three other grandkids a lot closer which you choose to forget of course so I don’t see her placating and begging for Meghan’s hood will if the latter was displeasing her. Diana liked getting her way as well if you recall.

[Alisamer]

18 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Couples in the infatuation stage: 

"You want me to. meet your grandma? OK, sure."  [Acts politely to the old lady]  Returns to fixation on partner.

I think you mean "rude obnoxious people with no common sense in the infatuation stage." Most people have the brains enough to ask a little about the family before meeting them, and to be on good behavior when they do. If you are "infatuated" with someone, you ought to care enough about them to have some of that care be directed toward the people they love and who are important to them. Anyone past like high school age, anyway. If you love someone, the people who matter to them should matter to you.

Look, I don't know where you were raised, but basic common courtesy is all that seems to be expected by the official royal protocol per your own posts, and that's also what is expected in my neck of the woods for basically anyone meeting a new person. 

I get that "etiquette" gets a bad rap for being outdated these days, but rude is rude. And you sound like you are implying that the basic politeness that anyone would expect to show when meeting an older member of their loved one's family is just TOO MUCH to ask and OMG it's terrible anyone might expect such a thing and RULES are not for AMERICANS OMG. 

Surely that can't be what you are saying, right? Because where I come from (in the US!) politeness is expected. Especially when meeting people older than you. You wear appropriate clothing while still being yourself and you are polite and you act like you have some sense. And no one who is not an "edgy" teen considers "don't act like a fool in front of grandma" to be an unreasonable expectation.

[Jackie3]

11 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Diana liked getting her way as well if you recall.

That was one of Diana's most awful qualities. And Meghan's too. Good people HATE  getting their own way.

If Diana had wanted a relationship with Harry, she'd have needed to make nice to his wife. A man who is obeying his mummy at 35 is not a man you want to marry, anyway.

[Four is Enough]

Actually, I think the reverse is in order. Harry idolized his mother. For good or for bad, I think if Meghan wanted to have a relationship with Harry at all, she'd have to measure up to Diana's standard, were she still living. All Diana would have had to do was that famous lip curl thing she did, and Harry would have dropped Meghan like a hot rock.

So now I'll extend the analogy and say that Meghan recognized this and decided to do the other well known Diana role, "poor pathetic me".. and I guess that's where her acting "skills" came in handy. She has that role down well. Harry sees the play, and falls for it.

[tabitha2]

I see as Harry wanted to marry his mother so to speak  and Meghan figured this out and used it among other things. 

[Jackie3]

16 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I see as Harry wanted to marry his mother so to speak  and Meghan figured this out and used it among other things. 

Yes. Using tabloid pictures from the 90's, she exactly replicated Harry and Diana's relationship. It was probably easy.

That's quite a plan Meghan hatched from faraway Toronto.

Hard to imagine she'd have the time, given her work schedule and her friends, travel and successful website.

Hard to imagine why she'd want to have a mother-son relationship with her spouse. But she did!

The first scene from the documentary had me fooled. It seemed she hardly knew or cared who Harry was. She must have faked it in that video, that conniver! So crafty.

 

 

[noseybutt]

Whoa. has Lori entered the thread? Because we are talking about a grown ass man here. 

 

[viii]

43 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I see as Harry wanted to marry his mother so to speak  and Meghan figured this out and used it among other things. 

I'm not sure if Harry wanted to marry his mother's copy, but they do say on average, people marry other people that are very similar to their parents. You tend to marry what you know, or what you lack. Harry married Meghan because she reminded him of his mother, and I personally think William married Kate because she had what he had lacked growing up - a loving, stable, supportive family. 

[AmazonGrace]

Spoiler

You tend to marry what you know, or what you lack.

Certainly  attachment styles and family cultures play a role in who we are looking for, or who we want to avoid marrying, but I think this definition is broad enough that you could find something to fit any relationship with anybody... everyone is going to have  always something that's similar to your parents, or if not, they are different enough to say your parents lacked some of their features

Edited December 13, 2022 by AmazonGrace

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I'm not sure if Harry wanted to marry his mother's copy, but they do say on average, people marry other people that are very similar to their parents. You tend to marry what you know, or what you lack. Harry married Meghan because she reminded him of his mother, and I personally think William married Kate because she had what he had lacked growing up - a loving, stable, supportive family. 

Diana and Meghan are different in lots of ways, too.

• Diana didn't really have a career (she was a kindergarten assistant at 19). Meghan had a very successful one.
• Diana had never earned her own money. Meghan had.
• Physically, they are quite different. 
• Diana was an aristocrat. Meghan barely knew what an aristocrat was.
• Diana's mother walked out on her when she was 5. She lost custody of her kids and remarried. Doria doesn't seem like she'd ever abandon Diana. She and TM had a more conventional divorce arrangement.
• Diana's parents both remarried. Meghan's did not.
• Diana appeared quite shy, at least initially. Meghan seems to have been outgoing from childhood.
• Diana grew up on a vast estate. Meghan grew up living over a garage--she wasn't poor, but she was hardly wealthy.
• Diana described her childhood as "unhappy." Meghan seemed to be quite a happy kid.
• Diana did not seem intellectually curious, while Meghan clearly was smart and inquisitive.
• Diana didn't seem to be particularly loved or important in her family. She was not the wanted boy, and she had other sisters. Meghan seems to have been deeply loved.
• Diana's childhood home had 31 bedrooms. Meghan's had 2.
• Diana had grown up with the royal family, knowing them personally. Meghan had not, to say the least.
• Diana did not attend university. Meghan attended a top-tier university (which had a 30% admission rate in 1999)
• Diana was a certified virgin. Meghan was a divorcee.
• Diana was 19. Meghan was 20 years older.
• Diana had siblings, Meghan was (pretty much) an only child.

I think it would be hard to make a equally long list of similarities, actually!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Jackie3

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Doria doesn't seem like she'd ever abandon Diana.

I love typos.  

[viii]

2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I think it would be hard to make an equally long list of similarities, actually!

As the person in love with her, I’m sure Harry could make a list twice as long about their similarities. I’m sure he sees a lot of personality traits in Meghan that remind him of his mother. Not everything has to be so literal (besides you being so literally annoying). 

[Jackie3]

37 minutes ago, viii said:

As the person in love with her, I’m sure Harry could make a list twice as long about their similarities. I’m sure he sees a lot of personality traits in Meghan that remind him of his mother. Not everything has to be so literal (besides you being so literally annoying). 

Tabitha felt they were so similar, it was like Harry was marrying his mother.

What are those similarities?

 

[viii]

Ask @tabitha2 if you want to know so badly, Jesus. 

[Jackie3]

7 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Diana  would have always had an important place in his life and had at least some say in his doings and choices . She has three other grandkids a lot closer which you choose to forget of course so I don’t see her placating and begging for Meghan’s hood will if the latter was displeasing her. Diana liked getting her way as well if you recall.

Perhaps Diana would have left London. You never know. She seemed pretty unhappy there. Wasn't she is Paris when she died?  I can see her enjoying the California beaches in Montecito.

In any event, I imagine both women would've gotten along, if only for Harry's sake, since they both loved him. Why imagine a conflict that doesn't exist (particularly since one party has passed)? There are enough conflicts among the living without inventing imaginary ones.

Unless you just enjoying announcing Diana's (imaginary) disapproval of Harry's choice. Because you feel that makes Meghan look bad. If that's the case, go for it!

[Jackie3]

Diana is 29 bedrooms in the lead, for one thing.