Harry & Meghan 13: Doing the Dance of Deniability

[noseybutt]

4 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I’ve been trying for a while to figure out why H & M are different to me than former fundies coming out and condemning fundamentalism. For me it’s that H&M come across as petty whiners whose words aren’t helping anyone except their own egos. Even with all of the criticism they spew that may have validity, they’re so tone deaf about the privilege they still have that I don’t find their woe-is-us as anything to be sympathetic towards. 

I do think there are parallels except

(1) As you say, the privilege. And the wealth. All tied up in a bow with the privilege.

and

(2) They are not condemning or even critiquing the institution. They are very much royalists/monarchists. So racism is bad and hurtful when directed towards them personally, but no mention of racism perpetuated by the institution. 

It would be the tough equivalent of one of Warren Jeffs sons leaving the FLDS because of bickering within the family, but hovering on the fringes and fully willing to step back into a leadership role if it were ever offered.

 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, mama4cor said:

My personal feelings - (Especially after watching their “documentary”) - You clearly hated it. So let it go. Walk away and mean it. Live your life to the max and show those royals that you’re so angry with that you are just fine without them.
This constant rehashing of the same thing is exhausting and comes across as so entitled and “poor me”. And it seriously looks like one giant money grab all the time. Plus the different versions of the same story do nothing for their credibility at this point.

I wish they would use their notoriety for something positive - go out and really support those causes you say you’re passionate about. Instead we only see them when they are showing up for an award and when they’re telling us another version of the same story.

 

There’s never been a royal who’s done so much for charitable causes. Meghan did this stuff long before the cameras were on her. She didn’t spend her time mooning boys or “working” for her parents.

[tabitha2]

Never in Royal circles? That’s many many hundreds of years and thousands of people. I am willing to bet at least one or two measured up to Meghan Markle

 

Do I really need to pull up Catherine Middletons own charitable work yet again? She did just as much if not more than Markle.  And if she had fun as a young adult and unmarried person as well that’s great! Only young once!  

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, noseybutt said:

They are very much royalists/monarchists.

Yes, they are royalists who chose not to be royal. They are royalists who left the country they could be "ruling." They are royalist who offered to give up their titles.

Harry only cares about media coverage of his wife. He doesn't care at all about what his mother went through. That's why he never mentions his mother's ordeal. He doesn't care.

Good points.

[SoSoNosy]

I haven't watched any of the documentary, just read a few descriptions/comments here and there, so color me pretty  clueless. Now that they have talked their six episodes of whatever they talked about, is there any more?  Have they shot themselves in the foot and spewed all there was to spew?

As to Meghan doing more than anybody in any royal circle, what about Anne?  She consistently does more appearances and meets and greets, and isn't covered by media praise; she just gets it done and goes on to the next.  I have never seen her accused of mooning anybody.

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, SoSoNosy said:

I haven't watched any of the documentary, just read a few descriptions/comments here and there, so color me pretty  clueless. Now that they have talked their six episodes of whatever they talked about, is there any more?  Have they shot themselves in the foot and spewed all there was to spew?

As to Meghan doing more than anybody in any royal circle, what about Anne?  She consistently does more appearances and meets and greets, and isn't covered by media praise; she just gets it done and goes on to the next.  I have never seen her accused of mooning anybody.

Yes, the meet and greet. "

We are so glad you could come, Your Royal Highness". Anne shakes hands and meets some people, who curtsey to her and laugh at her jokes.

That's one way to "help." Anne, after all, is "associated" with 300 charities and "does engagements." I"m not sure who is directly helped, though.

And then there are people, like Meghan, who roll up their sleeves and help the victims of a disaster, cooking, serving, cleaning. Getting her hands dirty. Creating a cookbook to raise funds. 

Go to youtube and google "princess anne charity work" and "meghan markle charity work. You'll see the difference, right away. Although you can't see what you dont' want to see.

[prayawaythefundie]

I‘m sorry but you don‘t even have to pull out hard-working Anne for this. The idea that Meghan, of all royals, worked the most on charitable causes in her very short time as a royal (and she is not doing tons of charitable work right now) is ludicrous. You can be a fan or not without completely losing all sense of reality.

Edited December 16, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[Jackie3]

53 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I‘m sorry but you don‘t even have to pull out hard-working Anne for this. The idea that Meghan, of all royals, worked the most on charitable causes in her very short time as a royal (and she is not doing tons of charitable work right now) is ludicrous. You can be a fan or not without completely losing all sense of reality.

Meghan, worth only $5 million, did more for the world than billionaire Charles and William. She was coming from a far less privileged place--I don't think Wills and Harry attended college on scholarship--but has given so much more. 

I don't think strolling around a charity party counts as "giving." The royals don't give a lot, compared to what they could. 

[Jackie3]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:47 PM, Manda said:

Article documenting at least five misstatements:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1708852/meghan-markle-prince-harry-netflix-documentary-spt

In six-hours of footage? That's pretty darned good. Thanks for pointing that out, that's a real accomplishment in a long documentary like that. You must be a fan.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jackie3

[prayawaythefundie]

About these constant claims that the palace was feeding negative stories about the Sussexes to the press, here‘s what Rebecca English (an experienced royal correspondant) has to say:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11539383/amp/Claims-negative-stories-fed-media-war-against-Meghan-untrue.html

Summary: Didn‘t happen.

[just_ordinary]

It’s a well known fact that the press offices have been working against each other at times. That’s yesterdays news (or rather 1995 news). Sometimes it doesn’t take more than a raised eyebrow or how you don’t answer but rather sip your tea to give the journalist you are talking to, enough so that they come up with the wildest stories. 
I don’t doubt that the monarchy was protecting the players with the higher rank and didn’t give the same curtesy to them. That’s business. And I can see why CH issuing a statement about the state of Kate’s hair must feel unfair if they didn’t back H&M against certain things. By the way-the statement was incredibly stupid and people still believe she wears extensions. 
What I miss is just one example of a story that was created by the institution and given to the tabloids. They don’t need to say which office they think it came from if they don’t want, but there are so many claims but no examples.

Or the five options for Megxit. H tells one and five. Said he opted for three, which was denied. But what about 2 and 4? And who came up with those options. BP? H&M? A mix, where both sides bring options and no side agreed with the options of the other side? In the end it’s the companies decision and not the employee’s.  
And No H, no one would have gotten you for free. You still wanted protection 24/7 even when not working. Would you have picked the bill to travel to and from royal engagements? I doubt it. Would you have payed back Frogmore in that case? Those bills don’t just disappear because you don’t get money from the SG. Someone had to pay them. 
And if they were so willing to relinquish the title- why didn’t they exactly? 
Also, lots of the claims are a bit stupid. Either the tabloids are making all those royal clothing rules up just to bitch about the women OR there are unwritten rules like -not wearing the same colour as someone higher in rank. What is it now? 
And by the love of god, they need to stop bragging. I don’t know if they don’t realise it? Biggest, bestest love story. Most hated person in the world. Hounded like no one else in the world. Realest. Doing a better job, so others would get jealous. People comparing the wedding to the release of Nelson Mandela. People thanking her on their knees (she did say the person kneeled down next to her seat didn’t she? Of course I know what she meant, but please. Hear yourself talking) for her great service (of 18minths) and that’s the recognition she missed. WTF???? 

It’s a bit sad because they look actually happy in most of their footage. They should really close the royal door and concentrate on their life in California. If they finally could get the money earning part of Archwell going and produce relevant content, I think they could find some contentment. But sadly, I expect much more royal content after SPARE.

[Grandma D]

14 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

There’s never been a royal who’s done so much for charitable causes. Meghan did this stuff long before the cameras were on her. She didn’t spend her time mooning boys or “working” for her parents.

Delusional much? There is a new revelation that shows Meghan in Africa and you can see someone holding a filter for the camera crew she brought with her in her sun glasses as she takes a selfie with African children behind her. It is also said during that "charitable" trip she would disappear for long periods of time and she actually brought her own makeup artist according to people who were there. All for show! She is a very insincere human unfortunately. She knows how to feed Harry's insecurities. Its sad to see. 

[noseybutt]

5 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

It’s a well known fact that the press offices have been working against each other at times. That’s yesterdays news (or rather 1995 news). Sometimes it doesn’t take more than a raised eyebrow or how you don’t answer but rather sip your tea to give the journalist you are talking to, enough so that they come up with the wildest stories. 
I don’t doubt that the monarchy was protecting the players with the higher rank and didn’t give the same curtesy to them. That’s business. And I can see why CH issuing a statement about the state of Kate’s hair must feel unfair if they didn’t back H&M against certain things. By the way-the statement was incredibly stupid and people still believe she wears extensions. 
 

Where I think the BRF royally screwed up—and where history may not treat them kindly—is by not speaking out about the racism. Instead of being so focused on senior people (which I agree is business but also their own self absorption) they could have said: stop the racist tropes. Basically avoided making Meghan the center of attention and instead focusing on a value or idea.

They are really bad at centering values and that’s a lost business opportunity (for the more cynical) and problematic (as heads of state for a diverse population). 

I agree that the spin of living the greatest love story ever is petty and immature.  Most people I know in stable loving relationships wish that for others.

But there is plenty about the BRF as a family and institution that promotes immaturity. There’s no expectation of developing a separate identity. No financial independence via a chosen career. It may be the 7th decade of life before you start the job that you’ve been preparing for. Emotional reserve (rather than emotional development) is the goal.
 

 

 

 

[Baba O'Riley]

 

To be honest, I do feel sorry for this couple.  I think she was totally unprepared for what royal life would be like, and I fault Harry for that.  She grew up in the US, and really didn't follow the royals much, like a British girl would. She had no idea about any of the protocols.  Maybe she should have read up on it more, but you don't know what you don't know. I guess she thought she could wing it. That being said, they should have exited the stage quietly and gracefully instead of the slash and burn strategy they employed.  I am struck by the difference between them and Princess Mako of Japan and her new husband.  There was an op-ed in the NY Times a couple of days ago, cleverly written so that you think you are reading about Harry and Megan, until you get to the end of the story.  I don't know if I am allowed to post the entire article, but here are the major parts. It's behind a paywall, but I'm a subscriber.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/opinion/contributors/kei-komuro-princess-mako-japan-love.html?unlocked_article_code=mdQzXii_AprvN-YaX33Z9qJukUJfmAffijoeap6Xf-tPmdz6G01pf5N86USRTknkLYqO9l2nIKx62Fkgpg6w0GLDMOwS4vxE1DQpg79upYhzs80YN_fmCLlhK-FynVbbITkK_4PpY1NqsChNlVl4oK7NLSfkWkRupM_lugKRxVByV9XhrPFcX-0oaMthj6jaK1Qcevs5exptvG2hWPcPy_6CeniuyzK0vQNMmFaXRM4CBZa5Wme1gZXAz2Lpt4yVU1sAfPNhrbepqx_sL0lCsNHM8eEymldIHj3RaKL4HyH4nEKmSlz6X4CfRXLPlBKhC5WXBfvXEqjb6rMmcr1D1q7BW95IskYn4dOS4Fyt9Vtf1aoT7rroSCtj&smid=share-url

 

Quote

Once upon a time, a boy met a girl, and they fell in love. This was no ordinary love, just as this is no ordinary story. They first set eyes on each other in a crowded restaurant. They talked, nothing more. And yet each felt the connection between them. It was the beginning of a profound love that would survive extraordinary trials.
<snip>

This was no fairy tale, however, and it didn’t take long for the couple’s fears to be realized. The media loves a good scandal, and when there’s money involved there is often a family member or two ready to stir up trouble. The couple were horribly embarrassed after a private family quarrel was turned into a kind of national sport, with the public invited to take sides. They felt simultaneously trapped and exposed. She became the target of mockery, criticism, abuse. 
<snip>

The wedding did happen, of course. By then the couple were already plotting their escape. The plan was so audacious, so unprecedented, that they told no one until all the pieces were in place. The announcement brought fresh condemnation. They weren’t just going to opt out of public life — they were going to emigrate to America. It would mean starting afresh, without titles, status or public money to support them.
<snip>

But former Princess Mako of Japan and her husband, Kei Komuro, are finally free and independent.

Ms. Komuro, who had to give up her royal status to marry Mr. Komuro, has a master’s degree in museum studies and several years of experience in the art world. Using this as her entry point, she took a position as an intern at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Mr. Komuro, who already had a Japanese degree in business law, received a scholarship to attend Fordham University’s law school. When he failed the bar exam on the first try, hardly surprising since English is his second language, he kept trying until he passed on his third try, earlier this year. He is working at the law firm Lowenstein Sandler. 

According to People mag, Mako refused " a $1.3 million payout that is traditionally paid to royal women who lose their royal status when they marry."

Edited December 16, 2022 by Baba O'Riley
typos, additional info.

[klein_roeschen]

15 minutes ago, Baba O&#x27;Riley said:

To be honest, I do feel sorry for this couple.  I think she was totally unprepared for what royal life would be like, and I fault Harry for that.  She grew up in the US, and really didn't follow the royals much, like a British girl would. She had no idea about any of the protocols.  Maybe she should have read up on it more, but you don't know what you don't know. I guess she thought she could wing it. That being said, they should have exited the stage quietly and gracefully instead of the slash and burn strategy they employed.  I am struck by the difference between them and Princess Mako of Japan and her new husband.  There was an op-ed in the NY Times a couple of days ago, cleverly written so that you think you are reading about Harry and Megan, until you get to the end of the story.  I don't know if I am allowed to post the entire article, but here are the major parts. It's behind a paywall, but I'm a subscriber.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/opinion/contributors/kei-komuro-princess-mako-japan-love.html?unlocked_article_code=mdQzXii_AprvN-YaX33Z9qJukUJfmAffijoeap6Xf-tPmdz6G01pf5N86USRTknkLYqO9l2nIKx62Fkgpg6w0GLDMOwS4vxE1DQpg79upYhzs80YN_fmCLlhK-FynVbbITkK_4PpY1NqsChNlVl4oK7NLSfkWkRupM_lugKRxVByV9XhrPFcX-0oaMthj6jaK1Qcevs5exptvG2hWPcPy_6CeniuyzK0vQNMmFaXRM4CBZa5Wme1gZXAz2Lpt4yVU1sAfPNhrbepqx_sL0lCsNHM8eEymldIHj3RaKL4HyH4nEKmSlz6X4CfRXLPlBKhC5WXBfvXEqjb6rMmcr1D1q7BW95IskYn4dOS4Fyt9Vtf1aoT7rroSCtj&smid=share-url

What I know of the japanese royal court and royal life, the british royal life is a walk in the park in spring. I wish former princess Mako and her husband all the joy and freedom they deserve. She earned it.

[louisa05]

11 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

I‘m sorry but you don‘t even have to pull out hard-working Anne for this. The idea that Meghan, of all royals, worked the most on charitable causes in her very short time as a royal (and she is not doing tons of charitable work right now) is ludicrous. You can be a fan or not without completely losing all sense of reality.

Hey, now, she sent that political lobbying group a $25 Starbucks card. $25 whole dollars! And she brought a box of chips to a blood drive in Uvalde. Those cost like $14 at Sam’s. That’s $39 right there.  She’s the definition of giving. She also let her internet fan club spread it far and wide that she paid for the funerals in Uvalde. Because she’s so humble and generous. Bo Jackson paid. But it’s their truth that she did. So that’s as good as her doing it. 
 

But never mind that, girlfriend has been through so much trauma. Do you know how small Nottingham Cottage is? And she was forced to live there for FREE while a bigger FREE home was renovated to her liking for millions of pounds. That’s trauma we can all relate to. How are you supposed to even function when your temporary free housing isn’t big enough??? How do you even focus on the renovations for the bigger free home?? 

[tabitha2]

She had made the ultimate sacrifice and suffered greatly .St.Markle of Montecito  indeed.  Eaten  by Lions in the Arena? Burned at the stake for rebellion? Nah. That’s paltry BECAUSE NO ONE TAUGHT HER HOW TO CURTSY! 

[Jackie3]

14 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

She had made the ultimate sacrifice and suffered greatly .St.Markle of Montecito  indeed.  Eaten  by Lions in the Arena? Burned at the stake for rebellion? Nah. That’s paltry BECAUSE NO ONE TAUGHT HER HOW TO CURTSY! 

You are supporting Meghan and Harry, and helping them succeed! You are lining her pockets by watching the show. And Netflix's too. 

Netflix will be likely to offer her another 100 million, for another six shows.

There'll be the usual predictions that it's never going to come out, and then it will. Maybe it'll break viewing records as the show did this time

You support them each time you tune in. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Jackie3

[tabitha2]

How do you know what I am doing? You don’t so Stay in your lane.

[viii]

I will say, the "haters" seem to give them as much attention as the "sugars" do. H&M seem to live rent free in a lot of heads, which only equals more money for them. 

[tabitha2]

I can assure they get nothing but distain and disrespect from me

[Loveday]

33 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

How do you know what I am doing? You don’t so Stay in your lane.

Exactly. I watched one episode of that drivel, and that was it. I've got Gilmore Girls to watch (again! LOL), and tonight I'm going to put the Colin Firth version of Pride and Prejudice (the ONLY version that matters!) into the DVD player and make some popcorn. 

I'm sure our resident H&M stan will more than make up for our not watching the doc. She's probably watched it a dozen times already. They're certainly making bank from HER!

[Coconut Flan]

Still holding at 1:04 of the first episode of melodramatic drivel.  At least that's what the first bit looked like.  

I read a piece this morning that said H&M were doing OK within the firm up until about six months after the wedding.  I was wondering why then and realized that's about the time they announced the pregnancy at Beatrice's wedding and went on the first big tour.  So they were fine raining on someone else's parade and the tour is where Meghan is alleged to have said she should be getting paid for doing it and did have the hissy fit at one stop that the palace tried to pass off as a security problem.  Perhaps she had a case some first time mom's get of having the most specialist pregnancy of all time and had a really hard time getting over it.  

[SoSoNosy]

I still haven't watched any of it, I don't know if I will.  I have decided that Jackie is sitting somewhere cackling at all the attention (s)he is getting from us; I am assuming she because she has so much time on her hands to rifle through various reports and articles.

Whatever.

[tabitha2]

Jackie is just plain creepy in her obsession with Meghan.