Seewalds 47: Actions have Consequences; Sponsor Backlash Due to Jessa's Homophobia

[AprilQuilt]

oh, so Jessa's commented on her youtube video that "Women have D&C’s for many reasons, not all of which involve killing a living human being." But she seems to be unable to see that the party and culture she votes for is really not making that differentiation.

I 'enjoyed' this comment which really sums up the wilful ignorance present among her fans, ie Jessa didn't have an abortion because an abortion is when the baby's heart is still beating and they rip it limb from limb to get it out. That's what happens in an abortion so therefore Jessa didn't have one.

I want to be delicate about this but a D&C does not differentiate. When it's a wanted foetus that hasn't or won't survive, they don't switch to getting it out in a way that doesn't damage it. They don't save their big slicing knives for real, evil abortions.

[NakedKnees]

I like to think that Jessa still has enough PR assistance to know the implications of going public about this. I also agree that Michelle's C-section with Josie was already evidence that the Duggars' pro-life beliefs do not extend to the point of martyrdom.

I will say that I was under the impression that "praying for a miracle" in the event of a unpassed fetus without a heartbeat was more encouraged in these situations, but I haven't heard that from anyone. I think the reality of Roe v Wade being overturned is turning off a lot of fantasy thinking like that. 

So, on one hand, I don't think the Duggars ever truly encouraged their own to die for pro-life beliefs (if we get race and ethnicity into the picture, I might feel differently). On another hand, now that D&C might be on the chopping block from the perspective of some medical providers in areas with new, restrictive laws, people across the political spectrum are actually talking about it in a realistic way. I think that's what we're seeing here: as far as we know, adult Duggars are as pro life as ever, they just need to be mindful of the details surrounding that much more so than in 2008.

This is not a time for glee or "gotcha" thinking. It was clearly a difficult thing for Jessa and if pro choicers aren't actually listening to women in situations that could be construed as abortion, then wtf? Who are we?

[NachosFlandersStyle]

2 hours ago, nst said:

I'm sorry but I am not really following - are you saying a D & C is an abortion to save the mother ..and if she actually admitted that - well wow 

Medically, it is always an abortion. Legally, it depends on whether a fetal "heartbeat" could be detected at the time of the procedure, which is a somewhat arbitrary standard. Jessa was initially vague about this, which is why a lot of people are speculating that she legally benefitted from a "life of the mother" exception.

[Jackie3]

The Duggars have 19 kids, most of whom won't use birth control. This was only a matter of time. 

With so many young Duggar women having babies, it's possible that one of them could have an ectopic pregnancy at some point. If that happens, I am sure everything will be done to save the mother, which means ending the pregnancy. That will mean that ending the life of the "baby" is OK in such situations.. That will set a good precedent for any Duggar leghumpers who look to them for advice on living.

I am glad that the Seewald/Duggars have given the "OK" to a D&C in such situations. Maybe that'll help some ignorant fundie woman in the same situation.

[Howl]

I looked a bit into medical terminology.  The term "miscarriage" is used when the fetus is no longer alive.   In Jessa's People article, she suffered a miscarriage.  A D&C to remove that fetal tissue is, in medical terminology,  an abortion.  

[Chickenbutt]

22 minutes ago, Howl said:

I looked a bit into medical terminology.  The term "miscarriage" is used when the fetus is no longer alive.   In Jessa's People article, she suffered a miscarriage.  A D&C to remove that fetal tissue is, in medical terminology,  an abortion.  

Back in the day I was taught Spontaneous Abortion and Therapeutic Abortion. One (therapeutic) was elective and spontaneous was not. Sometimes a spontaneous abortion required a D&C to clear out any remaining tissue. 

When we asked about maternity history we noted G3P2. How many pregnancies Gravida (G) and how many live births Para (P) and noted the 3rd pregnancy was either a TAB (Therapeutic AB) or SAB (Spontaneous AB) 

As a side note, we also had Social PrimeEps. A female that was allegedly pregnant for the first time, but had previous pregnancies that she had not disclosed to family and friends so she was a Social PrimeEp so we knew not to mention any previous pregnancies in front of visitors. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Chickenbutt

[JDuggs]

Just posted by Jessa...

Spoiler

 

[JinAndBonnets]

Jessa describes a “missed abortion” which is when the embryo/fetus has demised but the body has not started to expel any tissue. A D&C is surgical management for abortion - either an induced abortion (termination) or for missed or incomplete abortions which are more commonly referred to by lay people as miscarriages. 

[EmiSue]

The procedure is the same, but the circumstances aren't. I feel like people are being deliberately provocative by saying Jessa had an abortion. Yes, I know miscarriages are called "spontaneous abortions" in medical charts a lot of the time, but all the talk about choice surrounding abortions doesn't apply when a wanted baby stopped developing. A huge blind spot for fundies is that an extreme pro-life stance does limit the availability of procedures like d&c's--they say it doesn't, but it totally does. Pointing that out can help bring people into more nuanced thinking about the whole topic. Saying "Jessa Duggar had an abortion!" isn't helpful for anyone.

[Smee]

18 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

It makes me so sad reading all the women that have been in the same or very similar situation and been denied medical care.

I would love to see/hear her thoughts and or feelings on her good fortune to not currently be one of those women.

the mental gymnastics they must have to do...

I am sure her thoughts are along the lines of “it didn’t happen to me so it doesn’t happen”

[OldFadedStar]

There is a lady in my due date group... 

Her baby has implanted into her C section scar... chance of survival for both mom and baby are low. Doctors are suggesting medicine to end the pregnancy. The baby still has a heartbeat (Lets say she is 10 weeks, I cant remember exactly... between 8-10 weeks). She was encouraged by both her doctor and the second opinion MFM to terminate. 

Mississippi laws state that Abortion is prohibited except for rape/preservation of mothers life. Also, that anyone who performs an abortion will be charged with a felony. Based off those two laws, if this mother was in my state I do not believe she could do anything. I believe many doctors would be terrified of being charged with performing an abortion since the baby and mother are currently fine and healthy. We've already seen lawmakers say an ectopic can be moved and retransplanted. 

[AussieKrissy]

2 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Just posted by Jessa...

  Hide contents

 

here we go with the mental gymnastic persecuted Christian crap.

Shut up Jessa your ignorance is showing (again). 

Looks like this will be the new "abortion is the holocaust"  vitriol. 

I am ashamed and embarrassed of/for you Jessa.

Not one ounce of nuance of understanding and compassion was put in.

They will make anything fit their agenda.

Fuck you Fundies. 

Add 

I do agree with the above poster that  states that stating Jessa Duggar had an abortion is not helpful

By showing their inability to see her point of view (that a wanted baby without a heartbeat) is a miscarriage and therefore the procedure to remove it is not an "abortion".  Is lacking compassion for a Mother trying to get through her difficult time. problems  with Jessa is her inability to place herself in anyone else's position and attacking wont get her there. 

I am not as eloquent as @EmiSue but I think she is right.

On my non nuanced point of view I still stand by Fuck fundies cause they she/Jessa piss me off 

Edited February 27, 2023 by AussieKrissy
add stuff

[CanadianMamam]

5 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

 

I hope that she learns from this situation, but I know she won't, instead she will likely just feel persecuted and think that people are attacking her at her most vulnerable without pausing to consider why. 

 

 

I was right. 

Statement from Jessa:

 

Spoiler

Second spoil box is blank, I couldn't remove it 

Spoiler

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by CanadianMamam

[Jackie3]

I think the answer to this is simple. Abortions are done for many reasons. Fundies object to one kind of abortion but not to another. 

However, I think this solution requires too much critical thinking for Jessa. Plus "abortion" is such a trigger word that she'd never see the logic of it.

[SassyPants]

Now I wonder how Jessa would feel if she had to jump through government hoops to prove what just happened to her was not because of something she had done, or in the absence of a “believable” story be subject to prosecution? Especially because who knows what kind of routine GYN care that Jessa receives. In the early days of unassisted home births, she would have been sunk-

Jessa’s reply…she has learned nothing. This is what happens when you lack education, critical thinking and nuance. Plus Jessa’s approach is to lash out.

[boston2495]

As expected, Jessa, in her recent statement, appears to be completely missing the point.

It doesn’t matter why she needed or had a D&C (which I’m glad she was able to have). It’s the fact that, in her own country, women who need this procedure (for whatever private reason, which is between the woman and her doctor) are at great risk of being denied it because this procedure has now been thrust into a legal “gray area.” Many doctors either already are declining D&C’s or are in fear of performing them - for any reason, be it fetal death or anything else - lest they be subject of an investigation to prove that the fetus was no longer developing/alive/however you want to phrase it. She’s lucky that her doctor didn’t have such reservations. Many women right now aren’t so lucky. 

And of course, the reason why this routine and necessary medical procedure is so controversial is because of the work that she and her family, friends, and countless others in the US have done to chip away at women’s (aka human) rights in the US. 

So, it’s ridiculous of her to say that she had this procedure at all (the reason notwithstanding) and then in the same breath fight for laws that will effectively make this very same procedure inaccessible to others. Hypocrisy at its finest. I can’t say I expected much else from the Duggars, but hey. 

I wonder how she would feel if the burden were now on her to prove that this was indeed a miscarriage. Not that I would ever wish that on anyone, including her, but that is the possibility that she herself fought for.

[Smee]

She literally posted about her miscarriage in a weird 2-part click-baity video thing so it’s hard to sympathise with her now being all “don’t use my d&c to talk about other d&cs that I don’t approve of”. 

I don’t know if it’s the same in the US (probably) but here we have had conservative politicians use d&c stats to argue “x thousand women have abortions each year!!” and I wouldn’t be surprised if surgeries like Jessa’s were included in whatever numbers were used to make those “it’s the new holocaust” videos. People use data without understanding it all the time.

[nelliebelle1197]

4 hours ago, CanadianMamam said:

I was right. 

Statement from Jessa:

 

  Hide contents

Second spoil box is blank, I couldn't remove it 

  Hide contents

 

She is just awful.

Ugh.