Seewalds 47: Actions have Consequences; Sponsor Backlash Due to Jessa's Homophobia

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Continue from here.

 

 

[SassyPants]

From the last thread:

   On 1/17/2022 at 3:43 PM,  Mama Mia said: 

Interestingly she has a video on her YouTube that’s a tribute to her dad. It was originally done a couple years ago, but had a new upload date of a week or so after the trial. I would love to know what she added or deleted!
Anyway, I didn’t watch the whole thing, but in the intro she talks about how she’s a lot like her dad as in being stubborn, saying things off the cuff that she later regrets, opinionated etc. She also says how she doesn’t always agree with her dad, does some things differently. But she relates to him because of similar personalities.

 

Another Duggar confirming JB’s less than JOYful personality. So JB and M attempted to train what they considered less than stellar personality out of Jessa, at the same time JB role modeled the poor behaviors. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

20 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

So JB and M attempted to train what they considered less than stellar personality out of Jessa, at the same time JB role modeled the poor behaviors. 

Not to defend the Duggars. but this can be said for literally any family.  No parents are perfect and we all struggle with things that we'd rather our kids didn't pick up, but they do.  All we can do is work on ourselves and be honest with our kids when our behavior isn't something we want them to emulate and try to be better.

But if only people with no negative personality traits could have children we'd have died out a long time ago.

[SassyPants]

25 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Not to defend the Duggars. but this can be said for literally any family.  No parents are perfect and we all struggle with things that we'd rather our kids didn't pick up, but they do.  All we can do is work on ourselves and be honest with our kids when our behavior isn't something we want them to emulate and try to be better.

But if only people with no negative personality traits could have children we'd have died out a long time ago.

My Point, why wasn’t JB working on his behaviors? Have we ever seen that or heard about that? Nope.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

My Point, why wasn’t JB working on his behaviors? Have we ever seen that or heard about that? Nope.

Maybe he wasn't, but that they acknowledge it maybe he was to whatever degree.

I try to work on my unpleasant behavior traits, and have made big improvements in some ways but am certainly still chock full of flaws.  Maybe that's just me, but in my family working on stuff doesn't always mean you can eradicate everything.

[SassyPants]

Oh, I never heard that JB, himself, acknowledged his own less than pleasant traits or behaviors. I always got the impression that JB thought he had all the answers and that his ways were best. Of course all humans are imperfect but most of us don’t sell our perfect ways as the answer to the world’s problems, and that’s a huge distinction, IMO-

[neuroticcat]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

My Point, why wasn’t JB working on his behaviors? Have we ever seen that or heard about that? Nope.

I remember him talking about having an anger problem, and when his family members thought he was being angry they could come lay a hand on his arm or something to help him remember.

No idea if he actually worked on his anger problems, but as someone raised by a rageaholic there is absolutely no way I would approach my angry parent and try and help them do better. 

[Mama Mia]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:37 PM, neuroticcat said:

I remember him talking about having an anger problem, and when his family members thought he was being angry they could come lay a hand on his arm or something to help him remember.

No idea if he actually worked on his anger problems, but as someone raised by a rageaholic there is absolutely no way I would approach my angry parent and try and help them do better. 

That is an interesting strategy for slowing down/preventing a blow up. Most of my family, myself included, has explosive anger issues. I’ve heard of this technique, but I think you need to catch it at the right time, and have the angry person aware it’s something that people will do. I’m more of a needing to leave the situation and take a walk to calm down before I lose it, type. 

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

That is an interesting strategy for slowing down/preventing a blow up. Most of my family, myself included, has explosive anger issues. I’ve heard of this technique, but I think you need to catch it at the right time, and have the angry person aware it’s something that people will do. I’m more of a needing to leave the situation and take a walk to calm down before I lose it, type. 

I agree. But maybe with a friend or spouse. Within the ATI context it’s just another way to parentify children - they have to help JB overcome his anger problem. And especially in their context, I find it hard to believe that a child would be listened to in an angry moment.

[SassyPants]

The more I hear of JB’s antics, the more I dislike him. It angers me that as a society certain people are given the benefit of the doubt despite mountains of evidence indicative of their poor behaviors and choices. There was plenty of evidence and enough people in the know before JB and M were given what seems to be a lucrative TV contract and public platform to spew their BS. JB, Trump, Gil and so many other politicians and famous people….it’s enough to make just about everyone a cynic- 

[Beermeet]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:37 PM, neuroticcat said:

I remember him talking about having an anger problem, and when his family members thought he was being angry they could come lay a hand on his arm or something to help him remember.

No idea if he actually worked on his anger problems, but as someone raised by a rageaholic there is absolutely no way I would approach my angry parent and try and help them do better. 

I just imagined myself as a kid doing this.  No way!  

[SunnySide]

12 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I just imagined myself as a kid doing this.  No way!  

Same here. My parents are pretty reasonable people. But they are human. Their anger runs on the “the fuse is long, but when it blows watch out” spectrum. So when that fuse did blow on occasion I can’t imagine as a child having the courage to go near my parents and put a hand on their arm. Not because they would have hurt me physically, but because it would have just made them more upset. Somewhere around 12-13 when the critical thinking skills really start to set in the idea that if my parents were angry it was probably very justified was at the forefront of my mind if they were upset. That being said I just kind of let them be upset. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

That is an interesting strategy for slowing down/preventing a blow up. Most of my family, myself included, has explosive anger issues. I’ve heard of this technique, but I think you need to catch it at the right time, and have the angry person aware it’s something that people will do. I’m more of a needing to leave the situation and take a walk to calm down before I lose it, type. 

That’s most people. Leaving the situation tends to help most people. However there are many times in life when we can’t so there should always be a “tools in the toolbox” approach. People should have multiple anger management tools they are able to use. Walking away, counting backwards in your head, picturing something calming, 3 deep slow breaths, etc. I agree that touching may be at the bottom of a lot of tool box lists, but I suppose everyone is different. If it works for someone, I say go ahead. It doesn’t mean it will work for others though. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by JermajestyDuggar

[patsymae]

5 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I agree. But maybe with a friend or spouse. Within the ATI context it’s just another way to parentify children - they have to help JB overcome his anger problem. And especially in their context, I find it hard to believe that a child would be listened to in an angry moment.

I was going to comment along these lines and then saw this. So true. Should not be the child's job to gently remind a parent--of anything.

Got to say that i also have a problem with the term "anger issues." Just like "anger management." JB can control his anger just fine--if he couldn't, he (and other abusers who need "anger management") would be going off on their family in public, before the camera, in the legislature, when CPS shows up to the house, when the cops are around--if you can't control yourself, you can't control yourself even if Jesus Christ is in the room. When your "anger issues" only show up around people who are lower in the pecking order, dependent, or otherwise can't defend themselves, you don't have "anger issues," you are a bully.

[JermajestyDuggar]

34 minutes ago, patsymae said:

I was going to comment along these lines and then saw this. So true. Should not be the child's job to gently remind a parent--of anything.

Got to say that i also have a problem with the term "anger issues." Just like "anger management." JB can control his anger just fine--if he couldn't, he (and other abusers who need "anger management") would be going off on their family in public, before the camera, in the legislature, when CPS shows up to the house, when the cops are around--if you can't control yourself, you can't control yourself even if Jesus Christ is in the room. When your "anger issues" only show up around people who are lower in the pecking order, dependent, or otherwise can't defend themselves, you don't have "anger issues," you are a bully.

I 100% agree most people can control their anger (some people with head injuries and other issues are not counted in this). I think some people just don’t know how to handle it or avoid it because it’s all they’ve ever known. Some people are educated and choose to keep doing all the same destructive things. While others may learn and choose differently. 

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, patsymae said:

I was going to comment along these lines and then saw this. So true. Should not be the child's job to gently remind a parent--of anything.

Got to say that i also have a problem with the term "anger issues." Just like "anger management." JB can control his anger just fine--if he couldn't, he (and other abusers who need "anger management") would be going off on their family in public, before the camera, in the legislature, when CPS shows up to the house, when the cops are around--if you can't control yourself, you can't control yourself even if Jesus Christ is in the room. When your "anger issues" only show up around people who are lower in the pecking order, dependent, or otherwise can't defend themselves, you don't have "anger issues," you are a bully.

By that token I could say that people with depression issues aren’t really depressed because they can plaster a smile on at work or in family photos - what’s the difference? 

[patsymae]

40 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

By that token I could say that people with depression issues aren’t really depressed because they can plaster a smile on at work or in family photos - what’s the difference? 

Well, you could, but that would be ignoring that depression is a medical condition, not an "issue." So a person suffering from depression could plaster on a smile for a photo, but they would still suffer from the medical condition known as depression. 

Whereas erupting at people violently, whether verbally or physically, only when the recipients are in a subservient or defenseless position and only when not in the presence of anyone who could hold them accountable, is not a medical condition (when these eruptions are the result of mental illness or brain trauma they occur regardless of who is around) but a calculated act that they can clearly control. Then they create the myth of an "issue" and try to equate that with a medical (including mental health) actual condition. 

The person who beats their spouse or their children but doesn't beat the cop who shows up to take the complaint doesn't have an "anger issue."  The person who berates and humiliates their subordinates but tones it down when their boss is around doesn't have an "anger issue." They're just dicks.

Yes, a person with depression can mask it by smiling for a photo. The person in the early stages of dementia can mask it by, for example, calling you "honey" instead of your name. The person with debilitating arthritis can mask it by taking a pain med before going out for a short occasion.

I don't know how to explain that's not the same thing as claiming clearly controlled aggression against selected targets in clearly defined circumstances that don't involve anyone with more authority than the abuser being around is an "issue" the aggressor presumably suffers from.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by patsymae
typo

[Mlissmartin]

23 hours ago, patsymae said:

Well, you could, but that would be ignoring that depression is a medical condition, not an "issue." So a person suffering from depression could plaster on a smile for a photo, but they would still suffer from the medical condition known as depression. 

Whereas erupting at people violently, whether verbally or physically, only when the recipients are in a subservient or defenseless position and only when not in the presence of anyone who could hold them accountable, is not a medical condition (when these eruptions are the result of mental illness or brain trauma they occur regardless of who is around) but a calculated act that they can clearly control. Then they create the myth of an "issue" and try to equate that with a medical (including mental health) actual condition. 

The person who beats their spouse or their children but doesn't beat the cop who shows up to take the complaint doesn't have an "anger issue."  The person who berates and humiliates their subordinates but tones it down when their boss is around doesn't have an "anger issue." They're just dicks.

Yes, a person with depression can mask it by smiling for a photo. The person in the early stages of dementia can mask it by, for example, calling you "honey" instead of your name. The person with debilitating arthritis can mask it by taking a pain med before going out for a short occasion.

I don't know how to explain that's not the same thing as claiming clearly controlled aggression against selected targets in clearly defined circumstances that don't involve anyone with more authority than the abuser being around is an "issue" the aggressor presumably suffers from.

 

You explained this perfectly!

[SassyPants]

New IG with update on house progress. I like her flooring, cabinet and stone choices. Those bedrooms are nice size, sunny and bright. They certainly will have much more space. The 2 things I don’t like at all: the fireplace right behind the front door, and the master bedroom right off the dining area. I know since the master was an add-on, they had constraints to deal with, but I wouldn’t like that placement. I am happy for the Seewald kids getting a nice home with more space. They’ve worked for it.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

New IG with update on house progress. I like her flooring, cabinet and stone choices. Those bedrooms are nice size, sunny and bright. They certainly will have much more space. The 2 things I don’t like at all: the fireplace right behind the front door, and the master bedroom right off the dining area. I know since the master was an add-on, they had constraints to deal with, but I wouldn’t like that placement. I am happy for the Seewald kids getting a nice home with more space. They’ve worked for it.

I like the master bedroom placement, I, personally, would have had at least a half wall between kitchen and living room, but I know people love that open floorplan, so to each their own. I think the fireplace will probably have a tv above, which seems a common set up now. 

I really like that she sounds happy and this was probably a very nice distraction and thing to look forward to and work on during her skeevy brothers trial and associated family stress.. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Mama Mia

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

I like the master bedroom placement, I, personally, would have had at least a half wall between kitchen and living room, but I know people love that open floorplan, so to each their own. I think the fireplace will probably have a tv above, which seems a common set up now. 

I really like that she sounds happy and this was probably a very nice distraction and thing to look forward to and work on during her skeevy brothers trial and associated family stress.. 

The fireplace is directly behind the front door which is so weird, but to put the tv over it would be even more strange.  

Agree with you that a half wall would have been better, but I really hate floor plans this open and that's definitely just a matter of preference.  I do think it's a bad idea for someone who keeps such a messy house to go this open, but if she doesn't care then good, I guess?

I think only 2 bathrooms is very short sighted as is the lack of storage space.  That she's continuing the Duggar communal closet is really sad to me, I think having things that are theirs is important for kids and that she's just Michelle 2.0 in this regard is pathetic.  Yes, it's more work to sort and put away clothes individually, so don't have more kids than you can handle and it won't be an issue...TTH always felt less like a home and more like a impersonal orphanage where the kids happen to be related to the people who run the joint and the communal closet is a big part of that.

If you're going to have enough kids where you need a communal closet then you're going to have enough kids where you sure as hell need more than 2 bathrooms.

 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

The fireplace is directly behind the front door which is so weird, but to put the tv over it would be even more strange.  

Agree with you that a half wall would have been better, but I really hate floor plans this open and that's definitely just a matter of preference.  I do think it's a bad idea for someone who keeps such a messy house to go this open, but if she doesn't care then good, I guess?

I think only 2 bathrooms is very short sighted as is the lack of storage space.  That she's continuing the Duggar communal closet is really sad to me, I think having things that are theirs is important for kids and that she's just Michelle 2.0 in this regard is pathetic.  Yes, it's more work to sort and put away clothes individually, so don't have more kids than you can handle and it won't be an issue...TTH always felt less like a home and more like a impersonal orphanage where the kids happen to be related to the people who run the joint and the communal closet is a big part of that.

If you're going to have enough kids where you need a communal closet then you're going to have enough kids where you sure as hell need more than 2 bathrooms.

 

When my kids were little and had to get to preschool and elementary school where they wore uniforms, we had a community closet downstairs for the uniform clothes. It made it easier for my husband who had to get them out of the house by 6:30. I do not see such a need in a one story home, especially one in which one parent is always home and the kids are home much of the time too.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

When my kids were little and had to get to preschool and elementary school where they wore uniforms, we had a community closet downstairs for the uniform clothes. It made it easier for my husband who had to get them out of the house by 6:30. I do not see such a need in a one story home, especially one in which one parent is always home and the kids are home much of the time too.

That's a reasonable use as your children also had clothing that was just theirs.  As you said these kids almost always have at least one parent home, and they don't go to school.   I see her doing it as just one more way of stripping them of their autonomy.  Idk if that's intentional or she doesn't see it that way since it's how she was raised.

[SassyPants]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's a reasonable use as your children also had clothing that was just theirs.  As you said these kids almost always have at least one parent home, and they don't go to school.   I see her doing it as just one more way of stripping them of their autonomy.  Idk if that's intentional or she doesn't see it that way since it's how she was raised.

It’s always the easy, lazy way out for this family. And, yes, I get it when you have 10 young kids in a home, it’s hard to be exacting in every task, but Jessa doesn’t have 10 little kids, and she and Ben are mostly home all the time, and if she gets overwhelmed, I’m sure a sister fairy (or 2) is dispensed from the TTH to help out. I also wanted to mentioned I agree with your notion that an open floor plan is a nightmare for a less than enthusiastic housekeeper. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

8 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

It’s always the easy, lazy way out for this family. And, yes, I get it when you have 10 young kids in a home, it’s hard to be exacting in every task, but Jessa doesn’t have 10 little kids, and she and Ben are mostly home all the time, and if she gets overwhelmed, I’m sure a sister fairy (or 2) is dispensed from the TTH to help out. I also wanted to mentioned I agree with your notion that an open floor plan is a nightmare for a less than enthusiastic housekeeper. 

That's what bothers me, it's like she's planning for when she has too many kids to manage instead of saying hey, maybe I'll stop before it's an unmanageable number so we can give the kids we have what they need.