(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 47: Serial SM Commenter Anna Silent on Family Posts Lately. I Wonder Why?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I think you could make it out if it was habitual. Like, it's one thing to roll up to somebody at a stop light and be like "Holy shit is that porn??" but if you had to tail that guy everyday, by the third day you'd probably think, "Holy crap that is actually porn." 

It also might be a situation where the app (does PornHub have an app?) looks a certain way. I mean, you can spot that somebody is using Grindr a mile away because no other app on Earth uses such a color scheme. 

This didn't strike me as that unusual. I get why people are suspicious but the two AMAs the Reddit has had recently have been well, slightly boring, and it is their slight boringness that strikes me as realistic. I'm trying to think about the weirdest people I've known -- a few murderers, a former member of the SLA, a guy who kidnapped a woman -- and honestly, if you asked me an AMA about them, most of it would be like, "Uh, they were mostly like how people are, except maybe these three weird things." It's pretty realistic that a summary of working for the Duggars is "boring but suffocating, and kind of bad vibes." 

I agree that the one with Clint was like that, and that verification I believe because even I could do that one!  It's not that it was boring or lacking details, it's that he's been vague posting to twitter for a while some pretty serious allegations and hot tea but when asked about it crickets.  That would make sense if the rumors came from elsewhere, but he was the one starting them.  

For me the CDAN story about Jana is more believable and that may be the silliest thing I've read in weeks.  

43 minutes ago, adidas said:

I don’t have much trust in it. There was an AMA once, from a ‘verified’ ex-fundie, which had holes all through it. No harm done since it was neither here nor there in terms of the person’s importance (likely done for fun or attention), and I think it was at FundieSnark rather than DuggarsSnark so their verification process could be more rigorous.

I hope this guy is the new Alice. I remember when Alice’s posts first happened and there were a lot of people who thought what she said definitely  couldn’t be true, but it turns out she was 100% right about absolutely everything.

Edited to add: this is the AMA I was thinking of. It was at DuggarsSnark.

https://www.freejinger.org/topic/32987-ama-with-former-ati-member/

Some people really need better hobbies.

(Yes, lately that could apply to me too given how much I'm here these days, but at least I'm here as me, not posing as the best friend of the Duggar's furnace filter AMA.

 

[Antimony]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I agree that the one with Clint was like that, and that verification I believe because even I could do that one!  It's not that it was boring or lacking details, it's that he's been vague posting to twitter for a while some pretty serious allegations and hot tea but when asked about it crickets.  That would make sense if the rumors came from elsewhere, but he was the one starting them.  

For me the CDAN story about Jana is more believable and that may be the silliest thing I've read in weeks.  

Some people really need better hobbies.

(Yes, lately that could apply to me too given how much I'm here these days, but at least I'm here as me, not posing as the best friend of the Duggar's furnace filter AMA.

 

I just saw the CDAN (I was not familiar) and I don't find it more believable, but to each their own and all. I think the only "big" items are what he already claimed on Twitter (Did you all know JD is a pilot? Anyway...) and the Driving-While-Porn thing, both of which seem possible to me. Schrodinger's Gossip. Is it true or not? If it's too realistic, it might be a lie but if it's too interesting, it also might be a lie, but if it isn't interesting enough, does that put points in the Truth or Lie column? 

In fact, I was considering breaking out my own Investigative Journalism Skills, a la Chicken Etti, and asking AntiFiance to sit in the drivers seat and put my phone on the dash and see if I could ID some YouTube videos from 5-10 ft behind my own car.

But it's kinda cold.

But then it occurred to me that if the Bodyguard Guy has a truck, especially if lifted, or a vehicle taller than Josh's (which could be any car, given the Duggar business), it would likely have a better vantage point to see into the car than we are imagining in general. And it also seems to me that if I were a security contractor, driving a big ol' pick-em-up truck might also be on brand and could explain some of that vantage point. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Antimony said:

I just saw the CDAN (I was not familiar) and I don't find it more believable, but to each their own and all.

I was being sarcastic.  I think they're both utter nonsense.

[SassyPants]

A few things make me think question the BG’s authenticity: he was barely involved with the family, yet he defends Amy? Never mentioned Jana or some of the others at all, but supports Amy. Was Amy on the scene much in those short 2 months? Also, would he expose himself, professionally speaking, by speaking out on a forum? It wouldn’t be hard to figure who he might be from what he has reported. Can’t imagine a genuine person would risk doing that. Much of what was said seemed like someone saying what others might want to hear-

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, EmmieJ said:

Of Irish heritage here as well, and I heard that term used by relatives occasionally when I was growing up - and not in a derogatory way.  It was mostly used by older relatives, and it's not a term that comes easily to my mind when I think about siblings born less than a year apart.  But now I won't use it in the future, as I don't want to accidentally offend.

Although I think we should keep the possible “looking down” aspect of the term in mind, I think everyone who uses it today uses it without any nasty thoughts about Irish hyper-fertility.  The fact that it is used in Ireland suggests that it may be one of those terms that lost their offensiveness because the initial targets were not all that offended.

The term “Dutch treat” (or “going Dutch”) has long been used in the US to indicate that each person pays his/her own way.  In Spanish America, we would say “a la Americana” (American style) if it was a date where the guy didn’t pay for the girl.  Although the origin of these terms was undoubtedly a dig at another culture, I doubt anyone finds them offensive.

(In contrast, I know French people who object to “French fries” and “French toast on American menus as an insult to French gastronomy.😉)

Edited December 13, 2021 by EmCatlyn
Delete merged msg

[EmmieJ]

ArtemisSailor OP·2 hr. ago

We called Tontitown Mars. Michelle didn’t seem all that motherly and Anna is definitely not naive or meek.

Sorry if this comment from the Reddit AMA has already been discussed, but I'm working my way through this thread and the Reddit AMA and it caught my eye.  ArtemisSailor did not elaborate on why he found Anna neither naive or meek.  I feel she definitely enjoyed being featured on the show and has been bitter that once Josh's perverted behavior with his siblings became public, Josh and family were rarely shown on camera.  She may have originally been shocked and hesitant at Josh's proposal, but once she got on the bandwagon, she was all in.  And assuming that the security guard's story is true about flying with Josh, Anna and one of their children out of state for medical treatment to avoid questioning by CPS, then in my opinion, she gets no pity from me for her current situation.  I hope that CPS is now going to be actively involved in evaluating the M kids and their well-being.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

ArtemisSailor OP·2 hr. ago

We called Tontitown Mars. Michelle didn’t seem all that motherly and Anna is definitely not naive or meek.

Sorry if this comment from the Reddit AMA has already been discussed, but I'm working my way through this thread and the Reddit AMA and it caught my eye.  ArtemisSailor did not elaborate on why he found Anna neither naive or meek.  I feel she definitely enjoyed being featured on the show and has been bitter that once Josh's perverted behavior with his siblings became public, Josh and family were rarely shown on camera.  She may have originally been shocked and hesitant at Josh's proposal, but once she got on the bandwagon, she was all in.  And assuming that the security guard's story is true about flying with Josh, Anna and one of their children out of state for medical treatment to avoid questioning by CPS, then in my opinion, she gets no pity from me for her current situation.  I hope that CPS is now going to be actively involved in evaluating the M kids and their well-being.

A poster on another site mentioned how they believe she was all in to be the Heirs apparent to JB and Michelle, taking over the show. 

[BernRul]

28 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

A few things make me think question the BG’s authenticity: he was barely involved with the family, yet he defends Amy? Never mentioned Jana or some of the others at all, but supports Amy. Was Amy on the scene much in those short 2 months? Also, would he expose himself, professionally speaking, by speaking out on a forum? It wouldn’t be hard to figure who he might be from what he has reported. Can’t imagine a genuine person would risk doing that. Much of what was said seemed like someone saying what others might want to hear-

The Amy thing stood out to me as well. How involved was Amy during those two months? She was on the show a lot when she was younger not so much towards the end.

[Ilovebrownies]

I’d like to know what kind of injury the child had that they flew to TX that made them fear CPS

[Dandruff]

Let me try to get this straight...Josh needed to be protected from the paparazzi so he had a bodyguard in a follow car, but was watching porn visible enough that it might have been seen by paparazzi?  And this was after he had been outed for bad behavior and the show was on the ropes?

Was Josh working at the car lot at the time?  I would think that 8 or so hours a day in and around that nasty little shack would provide ample viewing opportunities.

Am I confused?

[theotherelise]

My take is the bodyguard was actually a bodyguard for a couple months in the summer of 2015. I think the flight to TX sounds like something he might actually know happened, but likely wouldn't have heard all the details of.

Beyond that, I think this is like when someone disappears and their neighbor gets interviewed and starts subconsciously or consciously starts putting themselves into the story. You'll hear them say "well the husband was always snapping at their kids when they left their toys out" or that they woke up that night the disappearance happened but didn't know why and maybe they heard something. 

So bodyguard is staying vague because he actually doesn't have any real inside info. And he's sprinkling in what he has learned over time and it's coloring his memory of two months he spent on one job 6 years ago. 

[Antimony]

9 minutes ago, Ilovebrownies said:

I’d like to know what kind of injury the child had that they flew to TX that made them fear CPS

If this story is true, I think the injury is kind of immaterial. They're paranoid at this point, right? Other insiders have suggested the Jim Bob loves to interpret things as "an attack" on the family. They're super concerned about "parental rights" and while it didn't make sense, they've even got the Defense lawyer pointing to Tor as a "privacy tool" for Josh. It all seems to come from one little seed of paranoia and persecution complex, so the injury could have been anything. It would make sense with all the paranoia. 

I'm not sure how a different ER helps you avoid doctors with sharp eyes who will, with any child with an injury, be a little bit more vigilant than they would be with an adult, but they also claim this flight was for paparazzi's reasons as well, so...maybe? Or maybe they didn't want to create too large of a medical record at one single ER. 

3 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Let me try to get this straight...Josh needed to be protected from the paparazzi so he had a bodyguard in a follow car, but was watching porn visible enough that it might have been seen by paparazzi?  And this was after he had been outed for bad behavior and the show was on the ropes?

Was Josh working at the car lot at the time?  I would think that 8 or so hours a day in and around that nasty little shack would provide ample viewing opportunities.

Am I confused?

They claim this was immediately after InTouch released the report, so Josh would have been just let go from the FRC and may not have been working at the car lot yet. Poster mentions he (Josh and co.) drove around to houses to flip. I don't think the car lot was revived yet and he may not have been working at the time, officially, since he had just left the FRC.

Added Thought: Were I JB, I'd start being paranoid about God himself because it seems to me that every scandal Josh gets caught in is just pure bad luck for him. A data leak from Ashley Madison? It's not super likely. That isn't something you could guard against. An improper filing error leads to InTouch getting a police report that should have been sealed? What are the chances? The shit he downloads gets flagged by the government? He's not very good at hiding but even things that should have been hidden (credit card use at AM, police reports) he's got a bad string of luck with. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Antimony

[Antipatriarch]

16 hours ago, SamanthasMom said:

It is going to be interesting to see what happens with the lost girls now that JB will have some time to evaluate what happened with his oldest daughters. My sense is that he will look at the lessons from the trial not as how he failed his girls, but rather how they were lead astray by more worldly husbands. In general the daughters have married less fundy conservatives. This line of thinking is ridiculous, but I bet JB is stewing about Derick and Jeremy now.

I think on a day to day basis the younger girls will have more freedom

"No, Kitty, I have at last learnt to be cautious, and you will feel the effects of it."

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, Antimony said:

If this story is true, I think the injury is kind of immaterial. They're paranoid at this point, right? Other insiders have suggested the Jim Bob loves to interpret things as "an attack" on the family. They're super concerned about "parental rights" and while it didn't make sense, they've even got the Defense lawyer pointing to Tor as a "privacy tool" for Josh. It all seems to come from one little seed of paranoia and persecution complex, so the injury could have been anything. It would make sense with all the paranoia. 

I'm not sure how a different ER helps you avoid doctors with sharp eyes who will, with any child with an injury, be a little bit more vigilant than they would be with an adult, but they also claim this flight was for paparazzi's reasons as well, so...maybe? Or maybe they didn't want to create too large of a medical record at one single ER. 

They claim this was immediately after InTouch released the report, so Josh would have been just let go from the FRC and may not have been working at the car lot yet. Poster mentions he (Josh and co.) drove around to houses to flip. I don't think the car lot was revived yet and he may not have been working at the time, officially, since he had just left the FRC.

Added Thought: Were I JB, I'd start being paranoid about God himself because it seems to me that every scandal Josh gets caught in is just pure bad luck for him. A data leak from Ashley Madison? It's not super likely. That isn't something you could guard against. An improper filing error leads to InTouch getting a police report that should have been sealed? What are the chances? The shit he downloads gets flagged by the government? He's not very good at hiding but even things that should have been hidden (credit card use at AM, police reports) he's got a bad string of luck with. 

Wasn’t the Intouch incident only possible because JB didn’t follow through with instructions to get JJD’s juvenile record sealed? Laziness has consequences-

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn’t the Intouch incident only possible because JB didn’t follow through with instructions to get JJD’s juvenile record sealed? Laziness has consequences-

Or if not laziness, or an over inflated ego that they are untouchable. Or maybe stupidity. 

[käsekuchen]

29 minutes ago, BernRul said:

The Amy thing stood out to me as well. How involved was Amy during those two months? She was on the show a lot when she was younger not so much towards the end.

He said:

Quote

Q: Can you give a brief timeline of your interactions with the Duggars? Summer of 2015 only?

A: Summer mostly. Went back in September to work a wedding.

I think Amy got married during that September.

 

13 minutes ago, Antimony said:

f this story is true, I think the injury is kind of immaterial. They're paranoid at this point, right? Other insiders have suggested the Jim Bob loves to interpret things as "an attack" on the family. They're super concerned about "parental rights" and while it didn't make sense, they've even got the Defense lawyer pointing to Tor as a "privacy tool" for Josh. It all seems to come from one little seed of paranoia and persecution complex, so the injury could have been anything. It would make sense with all the paranoia. 

I'm not sure how a different ER helps you avoid doctors with sharp eyes who will, with any child with an injury, be a little bit more vigilant than they would be with an adult, but they also claim this flight was for paparazzi's reasons as well, so...maybe? Or maybe they didn't want to create too large of a medical record at one single ER. 

On Twitter:

Quote

Q: Why did one of Josh’s brothers fly Josh and his kids — or one? — out of state to a Texas doctor to avoid going to a local ER?

A: Because child protective services was looking at him. A trip to the ER would have caught by them or paparazzi.

 

Just to clarify, I think whoever said that he might have been their bodyguard but is no making stuff up could be correct. Just wanted to add info as to what he's saying about the questions that have come up here.

Edited December 13, 2021 by käsekuchen

[3KidsAndStopped]

Bad luck? Or fully intentional? One possibility in all of this is Josh didnt particularly care about getting caught, either in arrogance thinking he is untouchable, or outright defiance to the life he has been told to comply with. 

His crimes are disgusting. And yet it may well turn out he is more free in federal prison than he ever has been. Mentally and spiritually at least.

[SassyPants]

Just now, libgirl2 said:

Or if not laziness, or an over inflated ego that they are untouchable. Or maybe stupidity. 

I just can’t figure how these folks who can’t seem to get anything done, fill their time. I recently saw a photo of the guard shack and it looks like it needs to be bulldozed. And remember Jessa’s house was moldy because no one had cared for it when J/Anna moved out. The Duggars tend to be slobs-

[Antimony]

4 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn’t the Intouch incident only possible because JB didn’t follow through with instructions to get JJD’s juvenile record sealed? Laziness has consequences-

It's both. If JB had followed it properly, it would have been clearly and obviously sealed but the decision made was also incorrect, according to the daughter's lawsuit and the laws they're pointing out were violated. 

Quote

Further, Arkansas Code Annotated section 12-18-104 provides that "[a]ny data, records, reports, or documents that are created, collected, or compiled by or on behalf of the Department of Human Services, the Department of Arkansas State Police, or other entity authorized under this chapter to perform investigations or provide services to children, individuals, or families shall not be subject to disclosure under the Freedom of lnformation Act of 1967, § 25-19-101 et seq."

It seems to me that multiple people had to screw up for the InTouch article to happen, and the first of those was Jim Bob but the series of events after that were still unlikely and not very predictable.

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, FleeJanaFree said:

The most interesting tidbit so far from the AMA. This guy has been verified by the Mods, by the way, I assume he had to show pictures of his employment contract. 

 

About the DuggarSnark mods verifying this guy, they can only verify identity and, as you say, his past employment.  They can’t guarantee that he will tell the truth.

A person may be the “real thing” and still make things up. (Imagine an AMA with Jim Bob!)  I think this guy is mixing some fact—-could be he noticed Josh watching what looked like porn on his phone while driving— with  some fiction. And he is clearly exaggerating his knowledge and his reactions.

On the whole, however, I think he is not 100% reliable, but I don’t blame the mods.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

25 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn’t the Intouch incident only possible because JB didn’t follow through with instructions to get JJD’s juvenile record sealed? Laziness has consequences-

It was only a police report. It was never a criminal record. Had it gone through the court there would be a record that could get sealed and we had never found out.

[3KidsAndStopped]

10 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

About the DuggarSnark mods verifying this guy, they can only verify identity and, as you say, his past employment.  They can’t guarantee that he will tell the truth.

A person may be the “real thing” and still make things up. (Imagine an AMA with Jim Bob!)  I think this guy is mixing some fact—-could be he noticed Josh watching what looked like porn on his phone while driving— with  some fiction. And he is clearly exaggerating his knowledge and his reactions.

On the whole, however, I think he is not 100% reliable, but I don’t blame the mods.

I agree. Hindsight is also a wonderful thing. Somethings Josh has said or done in the past may have looked innocent enough but with context of his conviction may be viewed-and recalled-differently

[käsekuchen]

Re: verification: A mod answered this in response to a user asking about how they verified the witness for his AMA a couple of days ago:

Quote

pictures of them around the duggars from the past, pictures of them at IBLP events, contracts, degrees. It depends on the AMA. For this one OP provided court documents.

 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

21 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I just can’t figure how these folks who can’t seem to get anything done, fill their time. I recently saw a photo of the guard shack and it looks like it needs to be bulldozed. And remember Jessa’s house was moldy because no one had cared for it when J/Anna moved out. The Duggars tend to be slobs-

As someone with ADHD that hit hard 😅. The Duggars are just lazy.

[EmCatlyn]

22 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Wasn’t the Intouch incident only possible because JB didn’t follow through with instructions to get JJD’s juvenile record sealed? Laziness has consequences-

I have never heard that before.  Why would a report made while Josh was no longer a juvenile need to be sealed to protect his “juvenile record”?

What I have heard is that if the family had reported things properly and the investigation had happened when Josh was a juvenile, then the whole thing would have been sealed.  

25 minutes ago, Antimony said:

It's both. If JB had followed it properly, it would have been clearly and obviously sealed but the decision made was also incorrect, according to the daughter's lawsuit and the laws they're pointing out were violated. 

It seems to me that multiple people had to screw up for the InTouch article to happen, and the first of those was Jim Bob but the series of events after that were still unlikely and not very predictable.

I think the real issue is that material was not supposed to be open to FIA because it was connected to an investigation for CPS on child abuse.  Such material is sealed to protect the victims regardless of the age of the offender.

This has nothing to do with sealing Josh’s juvenile record.