(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 47: Serial SM Commenter Anna Silent on Family Posts Lately. I Wonder Why?

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, imokit said:

I'm not sure JB would have supported this. JB & M believe in abstaining a certain amount of time after the birth of a boy and even longer after a girl.  I could see JB using this as an excuse to ensure one less mouth for him to feed (M8).

I doubt Josh consulted his parents.  And I can’t imagine Anna refusing him, if he insisted it was time.

However, if Josh and Anna did have sex, it was not because Josh wants another child.  He wanted sexual release/gratification before his impending long-term deprivation.  (He may have hoped for a hung jury, if not an acquittal, but I am sure he knew he was likely to be found guilty.)

Honestly, I think we worry far too much about this hypothetical 8th baby.   Although it is possible to conceive a scant 6 weeks after having a baby (my brother is less than 11 months younger than I am), it is not terribly common, especially when the mother is under stress.

 

[Not that josh's mom]

I have cousins that were born 9 months and 7 days apart. The second is not a premie. Glad it wasn't me.

[EmCatlyn]

28 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Like vigourously vetting your daughters husbands and subjecting them to highly embarassing moral lectures amd inquisitions, whilst marrying off your son to some unsuspecting woman in the full knowledge of what he has done and is capable of for example.

I am waiting for the house of cards to fold. Its coming. The next couple of years are going to blow the lid right off JB and Michelle.

In the general Duggars thread, I posted a link to a petition to remove JB from the ballot.  The petition includes a detailed list of some of JBs activities: buying, selling, shifting properties in different names, etc. It definitely suggests some things were not on the up-and-up, and I hope he is held accountable.

[EmCatlyn]

5 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I have cousins that were born 9 months and 7 days apart. The second is not a premie. Glad it wasn't me.

That is really rare because most women don’t ovulate in the first month after giving birth.  Traditionally you are advised to abstain for 6 weeks.  9 months suggests your cousins’ parents didn’t wait that long.  I feel sympathy for their very-fertile mother. 😉  (In my parent’s case, they did wait the 6 weeks, and then the story is they were just using contraceptive gel until my mom got measured for a new diaphragm. The gel was not enough.  When she went to get measured, the doctor joked that the diaphragm was not designed to keep the baby in. 😁)

[Cam]

Rare but does happen, I know some women who had babies very close together like that. But I agree stress could play a part in not getting pregnant and also if she’s breast feeding it can keep a woman from ovulating. 
 

[Not that josh's mom]

49 minutes ago, Not that josh's mom said:

I have cousins that were born 9 months and 7 days apart. The second is not a premie. Glad it wasn't me.

Those were the only two children in that family. Those children are both around 70 now, so I'm not sure what birth control the parents used but surely something.

[waltraute]

3 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Actions I agree with, but they need to see previous footage to get a baseline.  Often times the Behavior Panel will point out something that often means X but has to be disregarded with the person because it's part of their baseline and they do it all the time.  

Good point and I didn't consider this. I'm off now to look up the Behavior Panel. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

That is really rare because most women don’t ovulate in the first month after giving birth.  Traditionally you are advised to abstain for 6 weeks.  9 months suggests your cousins’ parents didn’t wait that long.  I feel sympathy for their very-fertile mother. 😉  (In my parent’s case, they did wait the 6 weeks, and then the story is they were just using contraceptive gel until my mom got measured for a new diaphragm. The gel was not enough.  When she went to get measured, the doctor joked that the diaphragm was not designed to keep the baby in. 😁)

It probably not the majority, but it's not that rare.  Irish cousins Kids born within a year of each other are pretty common thing in larger families.  I lost a baby at 20 weeks and thought we didn't need to use anything and I was pregnant again in less than a month.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[backyard sylph]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It probably not the majority, but it's not that rare.  Irish cousins are pretty common thing in larger families.  I lost a baby at 20 weeks and thought we didn't need to use anything and I was pregnant again in less than a month.  

I'm more interested in than bothered by old-timey terms that stem from cliches because I think context and history are important things, we communicate with people from widely varying backgrounds, and we do want to appreciate intent. But I've seen the term Irish twins (or cousins, which is actually this other thing?) a lot here lately or maybe also on Reddit. And it niggles at me a bit.

I'm sorry, I'm pretty tired, so I hope I am making sense. Anyway. It's one of those expressions that had a really derogatory beginning, implying the poor Irish Catholics were just producing like, well, like Duggars. I imagine it was a rather WASP-y "not our kind, dear" sort of thing back in the day. Possibly we can introduce Duggar twins as a substitute. 🙂

Edited December 13, 2021 by backyard sylph
typo

[Freejin]

5 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

In the general Duggars thread, I posted a link to a petition to remove JB from the ballot.  The petition includes a detailed list of some of JBs activities: buying, selling, shifting properties in different names, etc. It definitely suggests some things were not on the up-and-up, and I hope he is held accountable.

Thank you! Can you add a link to that here as well?

Another quick question - who are the howlers and how did they get their name?

[Bad Wolf]

The younger boys before the great daughter onslaught. The name came from howler monkeys. There may be more to it, but that's what I remember.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

I'm more interested in than bothered by old-timey terms that stem from cliches because I think context and history are important things, we communicate with people from widely varying backgrounds, and we do want to appreciate intent. But I've seen the term Irish twins (or cousins, which is actually this other thing?) a lot here lately or maybe also on Reddit. And it niggles at me a bit.

I'm sorry, I'm pretty tired, so I hope I am making sense. Anyway. It's one of those expressions that had a really derogatory beginning, implying the poor Irish Catholics were just producing like, well, like Duggars. I imagine it was a rather WASP-y "not our kind, dear" sort of thing back in the day. Possibly we can introduce Duggar twins as a substitute. 🙂

I appreciate you pointing this out as I had no idea it was considered a pejorative.  It was actually my first generation Irish grandfather who used the expression and there was no negative connotation to it.  Almost everyone on that side had really big families and wasn't a source of shame at all, but I can see how it could be an insult in other contexts.

If I offended anyone I apologize.  Duggar twins works for me

19 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

(or cousins, which is actually this other thing?)

Why would I have typed cousins?!  Idk what would even mean, except that I clearly don't proof my posts.

[Howl]

30 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Anyway. It's one of those expressions that had a really derogatory beginning, implying the poor Irish Catholics were just producing like, well, like Duggars. I imagine it was a rather WASP-y "not our kind, dear" sort of thing back in the day.

and Protestants

 

[Free Jana Duggar]

I was thinking about the M&Ms. I suppose this is one time the SOTDRT is best. Can you imagine Mac having to go to middle school with "mean girls" after all the publicity about her dad? 

[Cults-r-us]

5 hours ago, Cam said:

Rare but does happen, I know some women who had babies very close together like that. But I agree stress could play a part in not getting pregnant and also if she’s breast feeding it can keep a woman from ovulating. 
 

I worked with an unfortunate fertile girl who showed up pregnant at her 6-week check-up.

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It probably not the majority, but it's not that rare.  Irish cousins are pretty common thing in larger families.  I lost a baby at 20 weeks and thought we didn't need to use anything and I was pregnant again in less than a month.  

Once you ovulate, the chances of getting pregnant are typically around 20%.  It is actually possible (though rare) to ovulate while pregnant, and there are a few rare cases where twins have different gestational ages (twin A was conceived a month or two before twin B).  Most women who are not breastfeeding will ovulate between 2 and 6 weeks after delivery, but you are right, you can get pregnant much sooner.

Children born closer together than 10 or 11 months are slightly more unusual than just ovulation would determine because both cultural practices and medical advice encourage waiting around 6 weeks before resuming relations.  

The term “Irish twins” starts out as slightly pejorative, in fact.  It implies that the Irish families were not waiting “a decent amount of time,” before resuming relations.  It was part of a general looking-down-on the Irish Catholics by WASPs.  The subtext was the hyper-sexed Irish lacked self-restraint and with their rabbit-like fertility resulted in siblings born very close together. 

In any case, let’s continue to hope that Anna is not pregnant with #8.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Freejin said:

Thank you! Can you add a link to that here as well?

Another quick question - who are the howlers and how did they get their name?

Here you are:
Remove JB petition

As for the Howlers, it refers to the younger boys, but others will have to tell you which boys are included because I don’t know. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Once you ovulate, the chances of getting pregnant are typically around 20%.  It is actually possible (though rare) to ovulate while pregnant, and there are a few rare cases where twins have different gestational ages (twin A was conceived a month or two before twin B).  Most women who are not breastfeeding will ovulate between 2 and 6 weeks after delivery, but you are right, you can get pregnant much sooner.

Children born closer together than 10 or 11 months are slightly more unusual than just ovulation would determine because both cultural practices and medical advice encourage waiting around 6 weeks before resuming relations.  

The term “Irish twins” starts out as slightly pejorative, in fact.  It implies that the Irish families were not waiting “a decent amount of time,” before resuming relations.  It was part of a general looking-down-on the Irish Catholics by WASPs.  The subtext was the hyper-sexed Irish lacked self-restraint and with their rabbit-like fertility resulted in siblings born very close together. 

In any case, let’s continue to hope that Anna is not pregnant with #8.

 

 

Here you are:
Remove JB petition

As for the Howlers, it refers to the younger boys, but others will have to tell you which boys are included because I don’t know. 

Jed, Jer, Jason, Justin, James, Jackson.  I hate myself for knowing that.

[Nutella Ace]

Joy just posted a brief statement on her Instagram stories. 

[SolomonFundy]

"Duggar Twins" may not be ideal as new slang. They have two actual sets of twins, which confuses the issue, and only one birth that occurred within 12 months of another, if memory serves. (Or is there another close group besides Jordyn and Josie?) Plus, why give them any more attention than they already demand? Maybe let's call it Nollkampering? Clara is the most prolific producer of same-year singletons that I am aware of. 

An entry into the discussion of Nollkampering: I work with a man (A, who was a leap-day baby) whose brother (B) is 10 months younger than he, and whose sister (C) is just under 11 months younger than B. The gap between A and C is a little over 20 months. All three kids were born between February of 1956- November 1957. They were their parents only children, so presumably, preventative measures were discovered. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

18 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Jed, Jer, Jason, Justin, James, Jackson.  I hate myself for knowing that.

It’s Jed, Jer, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson. I hate myself for knowing that.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

It’s Jed, Jer, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson. I hate myself for knowing that.

Is that age order?  That's a level of difficulty above my skills.

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

Ok, so the older (now mostly married) children grew up very much with the outward appearance of the Gothard doctrine. Now that Jim Blob and Me-chelle appear to have given up on raising their younger children and the fact that they’re not on tv anymore…. Are they still being raised as fundies in their daily lives? Do they still get homeschooled and have to follow all these rules or are they fully feral and only dress/act the part for the outside world?

[Mama Mia]

29 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

It’s Jed, Jer, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson. I hate myself for knowing that.

Although Jackson is technically a howler he was almost always thrown in with the lost girls by the family themselves until very recently. Although presumably the Duggar’s presumably don’t use either of those terms lol. But as far as activities, play, sleeping arrangements etc - the family - oddly, for them - seemed to group the 5 youngest ( Jackson, Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie) as one set. 

[SamanthasMom]

15 minutes ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

Ok, so the older (now mostly married) children grew up very much with the outward appearance of the Gothard doctrine. Now that Jim Blob and Me-chelle appear to have given up on raising their younger children and the fact that they’re not on tv anymore…. Are they still being raised as fundies in their daily lives? Do they still get homeschooled and have to follow all these rules or are they fully feral and only dress/act the part for the outside world?

It is going to be interesting to see what happens with the lost girls now that JB will have some time to evaluate what happened with his oldest daughters. My sense is that he will look at the lessons from the trial not as how he failed his girls, but rather how they were lead astray by more worldly husbands. In general the daughters have married less fundy conservatives. This line of thinking is ridiculous, but I bet JB is stewing about Derick and Jeremy now.

 

I think on a day to day basis the younger girls will have more freedom and there will be less money for their weddings and less pressure for cutesy engagements etc. for television. I don’t think Michelle has taught for a long time so probably nothing will change on that front. I could, however, see JB doubling down and insisting on very fundy husbands for the lost girls.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

9 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

Although Jackson is technically a howler he was almost always thrown in with the lost girls by the family themselves until very recently. Although presumably the Duggar’s presumably don’t use either of those terms lol. But as far as activities, play, sleeping arrangements etc - the family - oddly, for them - seemed to group the 5 youngest ( Jackson, Johanna, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie) as one set. 

That was definitely true in the past, but after Tyler joined the family and Jackson went through puberty, it seems like they hung out together and spent less time with the girls. I seriously doubt that Jackson sleeps in the girls’ room.