(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 46: Counting On - 16 Weeks Until Sentencing

[imokit]

3 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

Just saw this on Reddit.

In the days ahead, aren't they going to be shamelessly on the campaign trail for JBs state senate seat?

[justoneoftwo]

Sounds like they are totally wiping their hands of him or at least saying they could

[noseybutt]

34 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I’m trying to imagine what is going through Jim Bob and Michelle’s heads tonight. JB I’m sure is furious and also terrified. Josh won’t stay quiet about the Duggar family secrets for too long. He will blab everything to people who will spread it about. The Duggar brand is ruined. I bet families like the Bates are also on edge. 
 

 

My guess: disbelief. I would assume they would process every possible alternative theory--including being targeted by the deep state, a satanic attack on his political career, the persecution of true believers--before there is any remote chance that they will consider that he is truly guilty. That may take days, weeks, months, or never.

Then, supposing they do accept that he did the actual behavior, they will then have to process whether his punishment is just. Pretty sure that there is no way for their theology to easily account for a long prison sentence for a father/husband. They will see it as cruel and unnecessary.

More than likely, they will largely skip any sort of self-reflection and move straight to damage control. Focus on the external. Avoid thinking and feeling. It's the Lord testing them a la Job, so might as well get on with it.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by noseybutt

[Lovebug]

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

Actually, it’s better than I ever thought they’d post. I hope they do surround Anna and those kids with love and support, and not just today, but for years to come.

It may be a pipe dream, but I hope she ends up surrounded with love and support from people who can help her gain her freedom. She’s going to be away from Josh for a long time. So many good things can come from that. 

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

2 minutes ago, imokit said:

In the days ahead, aren't they going to be shamelessly on the campaign trail for JBs state senate seat?

I believe JBlob was totally counting on a not guilty verdict (hence they didn’t even bother deleting comments on their page), so he could celebrate tonight and turn it into a huge campaign celebration/event. Duggars redeemed. Or something else along those lines.

[Finduilas]

1 minute ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

I believe JBlob was totally counting on a not guilty verdict (hence they didn’t even bother deleting comments on their page), so he could celebrate tonight and turn it into a huge campaign celebration/event. Duggars redeemed. Or something else along those lines.

But how??

i can understand the siblings being lied to, fed a false story, therefore some of them believing he was innocent. But Jim Bob? He knows. He knows his son is guilty and he has access to all the evidence and reporting. How could he not be prepared?

[FunFunFundie]

2 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

But how??

i can understand the siblings being lied to, fed a false story, therefore some of them believing he was innocent. But Jim Bob? He knows. He knows his son is guilty and he has access to all the evidence and reporting. How could he not be prepared?

Maybe he knows his son is guilty and expected him to be found not guilty. Because that's how things work in his world.

[seraaa]

Now that he has been found guilty, I fear the floodgates will open as the kids realise the extent to which they have been lied to. This could be a very difficult for them to process. And I'm thinking especially of Jinger, who has none of her family who went through the same things around her at this time

[neuroticcat]

So this is an old article, but someone shared it on Twitter as explaining IBLP, and I think it’s full of really spot on insight. I’ll cut and paste one quote here and hide a few others under spoiler since they describe IBLPs casual and evil approach to dealing with sexual abuse within families. You can read the whole thing here though: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/duggars-bill-gothard-iblp

“Robert Norvell, who ran an IBLP training center in Eagle Mountain, Arkansas, for 12 years, said the Duggars had contacted him in 2003 about sending Josh to his facility. Jim Bob “just told me that Josh was having some struggles and just wondered if I could take him for a while,” but he turned them down because his facility was full.

Norvell said he did not know about the sexual abuse until the May 2015 In Touch report. But he dismissed the abuse as insignificant, pointing to Gothard’s teachings. “What you’re hearing about Josh is a stupid thing that a little boy did,” Norvell said. “In the seminar, Bill [Gothard] calls it a natural curiosity. Had it been as traumatic as they make it out to be, the sisters would have been bitter, and the sisters are not bitter. I know the whole family.”

As for Norvell, he hasn’t lost his faith in Gothard, who he considers a friend. His seminars, he said, “changed my life.” 🤬

Spoiler

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by neuroticcat

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

For some lightheartedness, I have done some investigative journalism of my own inspired by the baffling call for 1/4 Cup Green Bell Pepper in the Chicken Etti Recipe. We're still doing corn beef hash but with some red bell pepper and Partner Antimony requested we see how much of a bell pepper is accounted for in 1/4 cup.

I give you The Recommended Amount in Chicken Etti and then The Rest;

It begs the question - what the hell did Anna do with the rest of the bell pepper?

That looks too small to be a 1 American cup measure? 1/4 cup is 60 ml.

[neuroticcat]

17 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Actually, it’s better than I ever thought they’d post. I hope they do surround Anna and those kids with love and support, and not just today, but for years to come.

I don’t. I hope Anna and the others get far, far away from them. The words they use do not mean what we think they mean. I might hyperventilate just thinking about the control cloaked in “love and support.” Also notice how, even though they released a short statement, they may aged to make it about them, how hard it is for them, what they will do, and how much they love all of their children. They also do not admit Josh’s guilt. Saying they care about victims of CSAM does not equal admitting Josh victimized them. I think it is a scrupulous statement, vetted by PR, but is 🤬

Edited December 9, 2021 by neuroticcat

[Jinder Roles]

What's shocking to me about the Dillard's statement is the lies part but also referring to the family as "Josh's family"...especially since it was signed by both Jill and Derick. Sounds like Jill distancing herself even more from her parents. 

 

Edited to say: The Duggar family statement is their attempt to put as much distance between themselves and Josh while not looking like assholes. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Jinder Roles

[FunFunFundie]

"Girls," I said, to my three daughters who are playing together on our living room floor. "I just need you to know - I love you so very much. And I'm proud of each of you. And I'm here for you, always, no matter what."

"Mom," the oldest said. "Why are you crying?" 

Here's to protecting the smallest among us, to ending generational trauma, and to shitbags going to jail.

[waltraute]

Now that Josh has been convicted, could he spill his guts, sell out JB, and receive any money for it? I thought a conviction meant money for his story was off the table. If that's true then his conviction might be in JB's best interest too. 

[backyard sylph]

I think this statement from the Duggar progenitors means they know it's true though they would like to carry on not believing it could be. The way they say they'll keep loving and praying for him indicates this. They pretty much suck at facing reality, but it will keep creeping in; they can't stop it this time, and if they really do keep loving and praying for him even though the truth has begun to hit them, they'll have done something right for once.

Several people in this forum have written of loving their children through some pretty harsh situations. I think these two clowns can do the same, even if their public face is still plastered with sugary veneer. 

I also think that if I needed to make such a statement, my initial attempt would be just as vague and measured. Probably we won't ever get any real depth from them, but some of the siblings might eventually produce some. Maybe not the ones we'd wish for, like Ben, who cannot read a room, or Jana, who travels around in her own personal bubble.

[justoneoftwo]

5 minutes ago, waltraute said:

Now that Josh has been convicted, could he spill his guts, sell out JB, and receive any money for it? I thought a conviction meant money for his story was off the table. If that's true then his conviction might be in JB's best interest too. 

He can't make money from writing about his crimes but that doesn't mean he can't write about others. He hasn't been convicted of molesting children. He hasn't been convicted for anything in his childhood. I could be wrong but I think those are fair game

[Antimony]

7 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

That looks too small to be a 1 American cup measure? 1/4 cup is 60 ml.

It's a 3/4th cup with lines on it so it should be right. I don't have a 1/4th stand alone cup so I went for this, but it's a little smaller than my 1/3rd cup measure, so that tracks to me. That also has mL on it and the 1/4th cup line lives between the 40 and 80 mL lines. 

I did a rough, not fine chop (cause hash) so you might be able to fit a little more bell pepper in the space with finer chopping. The whole pepper was used in the hash, though, and wasn't that much of a feature of the total metal in my cast iron (which is 10 or 12 inches and 3.5 inches deep, but I'm not sure what the volume on it is.)

It's a baffling small amount of bell pepper for a much larger recipe, in any case. It lives rent free in my head, truly, because this goes with a 1 pound velveeta and a whole box of spaghetti in Anna's original recipe. 

[sndral]

15 minutes ago, Lovebug said:

Just saw this on Reddit.

I got news for you JB &M - your ordeal is nothing compared to the ordeal your daughters suffered because you chose to protect that son you’re praying so hard for rather than them. Maybe it’s time to spare a prayer for your daughters.

And as for Anna & her children, last time you extended your ‘love & support’ to them it was to let Anna sleep in the girls dorm at the TTC like some kind of child rather than an adult and later you offered them a windowless warehouse to live in. 
As for your so called ‘love’ for Anna & the children - I assume it’ll be conditional just like your love for Jill - remember her, your daughter you’ve basically shunned - if Anna does what she’s told & accepts that she’s to blame for Josh’s sins then she & her children get to keep living in the warehouse.

[Free Jana Duggar]

I saw a pic of Anna leaving the courthouse. I was glad to see her walking with BIL David instead of JB.  One thing that struck me was David opened the car door for her. I know he's no prize, however he was at least showing some kindness that we never saw Josh give.

I hope she leans on her blood family through this instead of the Duggars.  Well, maybe Jill and Derrick can be of help.  I have a feeling they are the only ones who would have any hope of talking sense into her.  I really liked their statement. They said they had been lied to so much they wanted to go to court and hear the truth for themselves. Ouch!

[LilMissMetaphor]

2 hours ago, AuntKrazy said:

I wish that CPS didn't need to find some sort of cause to intervene for the M children. 

Having a parent go to prison should be enough to prompt mandated psychotherapy for children of prisoners.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6061120/

I mean it is an ACE, no doubt about it.  I don't know if I agree with mandated though, having had the experience myself.

[Magenta]

25 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

But how??

i can understand the siblings being lied to, fed a false story, therefore some of them believing he was innocent. But Jim Bob? He knows. He knows his son is guilty and he has access to all the evidence and reporting. How could he not be prepared?

I mean, even *we* weren't confident he would be convicted.  

36 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Actually, it’s better than I ever thought they’d post. I hope they do surround Anna and those kids with love and support, and not just today, but for years to come.

OMG the idea of being surrounded by their brand of "love and support" makes me want to hyperventilate.  How in the world could anyone who knows anything about these sick assholes not think the best thing for any women or children is for them to stay as far  away as possible forever?! 

[noseybutt]

15 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

But how??

i can understand the siblings being lied to, fed a false story, therefore some of them believing he was innocent. But Jim Bob? He knows. He knows his son is guilty and he has access to all the evidence and reporting. How could he not be prepared?

This is a great question.

I typed out a response and then I deleted the post because it was too graphic.

The shorter, cleaner version: JB knows the facts.

But, what does JB not know?

He does not know (or fully understand) the motivations of his son. Or the impact of his son's behaviors on the victims. He does not want to know the extent of Josh's fantasies, limited capacity for intimacy, and web of dishonesty. He does not know why the Dugger family is hated (beyond generic "persecution"). He does not know basic risk assessment, as in the probability of Josh reoffending. He does not know why most of the world is horrified at the thought of reoffending. He does not know basic child and adolescent development.  He does not know the pain of being a victim. He does not know what it is like not to be believed (except, you know, that one time he lied to a judge). 

But he does know that this makes him look very bad. And that this has all been very expensive and will cost the family much money. And that his political career will be an uphill battle.

That, he knows.

And that will be his focus.

 

[SassyPants]

Does anyone here think that JB and M knew/know how to love, nurture and raise children in a manner that would/could lead to healthy adults, and functioning, successful members of society at large?  Do any of these people have the skills needed to live independently from the mothership? Why did the Duggars join the cult in the first place?

I don’t know if I’ve asked this already, but is Anna her own headship, or is JB now in charge? Do JB and M now get to claim that they have 28 kids? 
 

Where were Anna’s parents? All those people expected Anna to honor her vows and the system, but no one thought they needed to help her do that the last 2 weeks, especially today? They sent David? Eff her parents.
 

Yes, Anna should have bailed 4 kids ago. Her choices are really coming around to bite her in the ass-

[freealljs]

I think that JB should focus on his family instead of running for Senate. Maybe he thought that Josh would be found not guilty, because of the Duggar name. Boy was JB wrong! 
 

I found Derick’s statement more personal than JB and Michelle’s. It looks like Derick wrote from his heart and JB and Michelle picked a statement from a PR website. 

[mydoggoskeeper]

26 minutes ago, waltraute said:

Now that Josh has been convicted, could he spill his guts, sell out JB, and receive any money for it? I thought a conviction meant money for his story was off the table. If that's true then his conviction might be in JB's best interest too. 

Criminals cannot make money off the notoriety of their crimes.  E.g. a serial killer cannot write a tell all book for $.    Josh could still make money off exposing his family but it would need to be narrowly tailored.