(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

He's also lying about the gentle touching while all the girls were asleep.

The two youngest victims experienced something very different. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Jinderella said:

It is so hurtfull to his daughters. Daddy forgot your brother touched you under your clothes. Was not very important. Daddy forgot about the time one of you came to him to tell about what was happening. So brave of your brother to confess. I’m so mad for them. 

I am sure the girls know Daddy didn’t forget.  They know that Daddy is lying, just as he has lied before and Jessa and Jill had to lie and minimize what happened when interviewed.

What I am wondering is why a couple of the victims haven’t been asked to testify.  JB may not “remember” but Jessa and Jill spoke about it on TV.  
 

35 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

We’ve always known JB is trash. Now maybe a few others will know. Maybe a few voters even.

I was thinking if I were campaigning against JB I would bring this up.  “Poor man, he is going senile before his time, can’t remember things any normal person would remember.” 

[Antimony]

15 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I am sure the girls know Daddy didn’t forget.  They know that Daddy is lying, just as he has lied before and Jessa and Jill had to lie and minimize what happened when interviewed.

What I am wondering is why a couple of the victims haven’t been asked to testify.  JB may not “remember” but Jessa and Jill spoke about it on TV.  
 

I wonder the same thing but I imagine maybe optics, or risk. It looks kind of shit to a jury to be the one to subpoena a direct victim and make them testify in front of their abuser and the public. Plus, it's one thing if Jim Bob lies on the stand or "can't remember" -- it's an entirely other thing if one of the girls can be compelled to lie by JB & Meech. Not worth the risk when the case largely rests on computer evidence. I think introducing this is a kind of bonus for the prosecution -- it doesn't seem they need it as a key part of the case. 

There's also the matter of the age these memories formed. A lot of folks think trauma memories are vibrant and clear and detailed, but they don't have to be.  Plenty of trauma memories are murky and emerge piecewise. Victim testimony could come under fire on that fact alone and not be robust under cross examination. It's a memory made by a child at a time when they didn't have the vocabulary to describe these things and at a time under stress. In general, witness testimony isn't super reliable and I can imagine it'd be really easy for the Defense to grab a detail of victim testimony and milk it for every inconsistency it's worth. 

[RosyDaisy]

JB is a lying, hateful, snug, patriarchal asshole!  He knows what happened and when.

[feministxtian]

JB done fucked up. It can be proven he lied under oath with that "I don't remember" bullshit, just pull the footage from the Megyn Kelly interview (it's on YouTube). I can hear the cell doors slamming. I'll be shocked AF if JB doesn't get hit with at least a contempt charge. Goddamn fucker thinks he's better than a federal judge. Uneducated, ignorant, bible (and baby) beating motherfucking son of a bitch thinks he knows more than the judge. The hubris!

[meee]

6 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

JB done fucked up. It can be proven he lied under oath with that "I don't remember" bullshit, just pull the footage from the Megyn Kelly interview (it's on YouTube). I can hear the cell doors slamming. I'll be shocked AF if JB doesn't get hit with at least a contempt charge. Goddamn fucker thinks he's better than a federal judge. Uneducated, ignorant, bible (and baby) beating motherfucking son of a bitch thinks he knows more than the judge. The hubris!

I really, really hope you’re right. 
 

But I’m watching all of this and I’m terrified that he and Josh both are going to come out of this with slaps on the wrist at most and manage to rebuild their “lovely Christian family” reputation over time. 

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

8 minutes ago, meee said:

I really, really hope you’re right. 
But I’m watching all of this and I’m terrified that he and Josh both are going to come out of this with slaps on the wrist at most and manage to rebuild their “lovely Christian family” reputation over time. 

I don't think there is any chance of Jim Bob being charged with anything, but I don't think Josh is going to walk. 

JB is a piece of human garbage though, and it pleases me to imagine how absolutely enraged he must have been today. 

[Satan'sFortress]

2 hours ago, Idlewild said:

JB sounding like an arrogant tool there. Your eldest child admits to assaulting girls  your own daughters, one of whom was only 5 years old, and you can’t remember?

FTFY.

Well, my turn to beat the dead horse. I have to say, I am astonished.  I don't know what I expected--some kind of watered down re-telling of the Megan Kelly interview maybe.  But WTAF!?  Does he think that the interview magically disappeared after it aired? That no one saw it? Even if no one in the courtroom had seen it (which surely both sets of lawyers have) . . . even then, JB must know that many people out there in TV land did & will know he is a liar and a hypocrite. And God knows you are lying, you giant piece of crap.  Your poor daughters.

Passing the mallet---continue the beatings.

[theotherelise]

Just told my husband about JB’s testimony and he said: “well when you have that many kids, it’s hard to remember who has been molested by who”

what a fcking scumbag 

[Dandruff]

7 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

JB is a piece of human garbage though, and it pleases me to imagine how absolutely enraged he must have been today.

Yeah, MOTY may need to make him a big sandwich tonight.

Can't imagine what the older girls must be thinking.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m thinking this won’t help to repair his relationship with Jill. 

[Not that josh's mom]

Hopefully, the older girls are beginning to undestand their importance to Jim Bob. If I were them. I'd never be able to speak to him again. So sad.i have felt badly for the children in this family, before but "not remembering" is so demoralizing. I cant even be mad any more, I just want to cry.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

"If there is [an] objection to be made, someone will make it but it won't be you," the judge told him. 😂

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Antimony said:

I wonder the same thing but I imagine maybe optics, or risk. It looks kind of shit to a jury to be the one to subpoena a direct victim and make them testify in front of their abuser and the public. Plus, it's one thing if Jim Bob lies on the stand or "can't remember" -- it's an entirely other thing if one of the girls can be compelled to lie by JB & Meech. Not worth the risk when the case largely rests on computer evidence. I think introducing this is a kind of bonus for the prosecution -- it doesn't seem they need it as a key part of the case. 

There's also the matter of the age these memories formed. A lot of folks think trauma memories are vibrant and clear and detailed, but they don't have to be.  Plenty of trauma memories are murky and emerge piecewise. Victim testimony could come under fire on that fact alone and not be robust under cross examination. It's a memory made by a child at a time when they didn't have the vocabulary to describe these things and at a time under stress. In general, witness testimony isn't super reliable and I can imagine it'd be really easy for the Defense to grab a detail of victim testimony and milk it for every inconsistency it's worth. 

I can see that close-examination on the details might trip up the victims, but why would anyone cross-examine them about details?

Surely just having Jill or Jessa repeat more or less what they said in the Megan Kelly interview without so much about forgiveness would be enough.

Basically they just need to confirm that Josh touched them inappropriately and that two younger sisters were also touched inappropriately.  The details are not important because this isn’t so much about what he did as it is about his doing anything at all.

The judge seems to be doing a good job of weighing the evidence so far.  

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

34 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m thinking this won’t help to repair his relationship with Jill. 

"Jill? I don't remember a Jill", replied Slime Bob.

[snickerz]

Jim Bob Duggar is a liar and a pedophile enabler. Disgusting.

[Giraffe]

4 minutes ago, snickerz said:

Jim Bob Duggar is a liar and a pedophile enabler. Disgusting.

"Jim Bob Duggar: Liar and pedophile enabler" should be his campaign slogan. Instead he's proving what a liar he is by pretending he gives a shit about "family values." 🤢

[Mama Mia]

4 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

I can see that close-examination on the details might trip up the victims, but why would anyone cross-examine them about details?

Surely just having Jill or Jessa repeat more or less what they said in the Megan Kelly interview without so much about forgiveness would be enough.

Basically they just need to confirm that Josh touched them inappropriately and that two younger sisters were also touched inappropriately.  The details are not important because this isn’t so much about what he did as it is about his doing anything at all.

The judge seems to be doing a good job of weighing the evidence so far.  

I don’t know. I think it might just look the prosecutors look like a*holes to call any of his victims up to the stand. Plus I really don’t think that’s usually a thing, is it? Also, if they called up Jill or Jessa- according to them they were sleeping and didn’t remember it - so that wouldn’t be very good testimony, and the two younger sisters, who were awake and had the worse assaults - were very young - courts don’t really like to count on the recollections of young children- and almost 20 years later — it would be iffy on how it would go. Jinger, who was 8? at the time, and awake, would probably be the best bet- but still very easy to throw off with details, or putting up questions if she misconstrued something accidental. 
JB’s court demeanor seems not only insulting - but really, really, really stupid. He can’t question “tabloid” rumors when it’s referring to actual police reports FFS. And they did multiple interviews. It just makes anything he says seem like a lie. A really idiotic lie. Not smart JB. He should of just stuck with doing as he was told by the judge, and maybe detailing the steps they took to “fix” Josh. That’s it.

[Giraffe]

Just got notified my last post put me into a new category. Jesus is now my realtor apparently. If that's true he's doing a shit job!

Edited November 30, 2021 by Giraffe

[EmCatlyn]

2 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Just got notified my last post put me into a new category. Jesus is now my realtor apparently. If that's true he's doing a shit job!

Jesus became my realtor a few months ago, and I still haven’t found a house.     I am now a “Protector of Women’s Virtue,” so I guess Jesus (unlike my regular realtor) has given up on me.  Good luck to you.  

[cheeseandrice]

longtime lurker coming out to say this, from the Duggars own statement about Perv

"It is our prayer that the truth, no matter what it is, will come to light"

um jimboob, I can't recall is not helpful to this end...

oh wait, these people don't give a rats *ss about that truth.  Its all about how they appear to the public and his behavior in court today shows him to be a hypocritical fraud. I am beyond disgusted.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Bobbi, Bobye, Bobby testified that Josh was molesting girls when he was 12 and his parents didn't want to hear about it.

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-family-friend-emotional-testimony-court-hearing/?fbclid=IwAR2r8sjUnH40abtIGR_zG-A9seQZOmolQp-6h38n2zVIZSHKkPfIjU1vf-A

[Letgo]

There is no way JB can't remember. He's been thinking about this probably every day since Josh was arrested. I'm sure he thought of what happened when the Ashley Madison scandal occurred. Perjury much?

How on earth could Bobye be considered clergy? They don't allow female clergy. She can't even get a non-clergy job as the only acceptable occupation for women is wife and mother. Women are not allowed to have spiritual authority over men so there should be no possibility of Bobye being a spiritual counselor to Josh.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

4 minutes ago, Letgo said:

There is no way JB can't remember. He's been thinking about this probably every day since Josh was arrested. I'm sure he thought of what happened when the Ashley Madison scandal occurred. Perjury much?

How on earth could Bobye be considered clergy? They don't allow female clergy. She can't even get a non-clergy job as the only acceptable occupation for women is wife and mother. Women are not allowed to have spiritual authority over men so there should be no possibility of Bobye being a spiritual counselor to Josh.

Yes. From the article I linked above:

"As Jim Bob's testimony wound down, he [the judge] addressed what seemed to be a subtext of the argument over priestly protection: that because Bobye Holt said women weren't elders in their church and so wasn't an elder, her presence undercut claims of privilege."

[PinkGreyBrown]

Jim Bob's probably used to the courts acting in his interests vis a vis his real-estate business. Landlords have courts backing them up when they make people homeless, destroying the lives of financially struggling people to enhance the landlord's profiteering. I can totally see why he'd think he gets to tell the judge what to do.