Bro Gary Hawkins 19: God Even Uses the Perforated People

[thoughtful]

21 hours ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Wow. Above comments about Gary's Daddy are quite eye opening. I was under the impression that Gary had a conversion story with a dramatic Christ-accepting climax. Am I mistaken or hasn't he referenced his former life riddled with sin and the bim and bam and the boom? Now I find out he was raised by this evil primitive who apparently has child rape fantasies. Can anyone enlighten me about Gary's back story, please?

Gary does have a dramatic salvation story, but only because he makes a big drama of it.

As near as I can tell (it's always hard, because Gary doesn't always make sense), here is the chronology. It's patchy.

His parents were "out of church" when he was born. When he was three, his grandmother persuaded his father to get back "into church." But it was a church with a female pastor (Methodist, I think - Gary never says, but his grandmother's funeral was in a Methodist church with a woman presiding - to Gary's relief, a Baptist preacher was also allowed to speak).

I don't remember hearing any details about his churchgoing for the rest of his childhood.

ETA:

Spoiler

Well, except for his horrible joke - he says he was "one of them kids on drugs - he was drug to this church, and drug to that church." He always says he "grew up in church."

I think he's talked about his father's attempts at ministry, off and on, but I don't know the chronology. I think there was an attempt to start a church near Myrtle Beach SC at one point.

It's also unclear how long he went to school, and whether they were public or Christian schools. I don't know if he graduated high school, dropped out and did nothing educational, or was partly home-schooled.

Gary tells a story about how he wasn't attending church at some point, and his grandmother called and told him she needed a ride to church on Sunday morning, and that got him to start going again. So, Gary was old enough to drive when that happened.

At some point (I don't think he's ever said when - in fact, it could have preceded Gary's grandmother asking for rides), a man whose name I can't remember right now came along and persuaded Gary's father that he had to become a born again Baptist. I guess Gary joined the Baptists, but I don't know when. He never tells us anything about when or why his Mom signed on.

He tells a story about smoking two joints, that didn't make him high because God, and has made vague references to some drinking. He also talks about getting tickets for bad driving, but I don't know if he ever ran with a really wild crowd. And I don't know when all of this happened - my guess is teens and/or early 20s.

At some point, he was very involved in church life, had all the hymns memorized, was a song leader and "preacher's right hand man," but he was "playing church," he says.

Then, after a church service, on July 11, 1999 (so he was a few months shy of his 27th birthday at the time), Gary says he looked at the church doors and saw a vision of himself burning in Hell. Jesus passed by, and spoke to him (but not in actual words). He was told that, if he didn't get it settled that day, God/Jesus would never deal with him again.

Missing from this story is how his first wife fits into the picture, of course. I think Michaela was already born when Gary was born again - I believe she's 23 or 24 now.

And that's all I know.

Edited March 7, 2022 by thoughtful

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

thoughtful, thank you so much for Gary's back story. He's a fascinating specimen. 

[Alisamer]

10 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Gary does have a dramatic salvation story, but only because he makes a big drama of it.

As near as I can tell (it's always hard, because Gary doesn't always make sense), here is the chronology. It's patchy.

His parents were "out of church" when he was born. When he was three, his grandmother persuaded his father to get back "into church." But it was a church with a female pastor (Methodist, I think - Gary never says, but his grandmother's funeral was in a Methodist church with a woman presiding - to Gary's relief, a Baptist preacher was also allowed to speak).

I don't remember hearing any details about his churchgoing for the rest of his childhood.

ETA:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, except for his horrible joke - he says he was "one of them kids on drugs - he was drug to this church, and drug to that church." He always says he "grew up in church."

I think he's talked about his father's attempts at ministry, off and on, but I don't know the chronology. I think there was an attempt to start a church near Myrtle Beach SC at one point.

It's also unclear how long he went to school, and whether they were public or Christian schools. I don't know if he graduated high school, dropped out and did nothing educational, or was partly home-schooled.

Gary tells a story about how he wasn't attending church at some point, and his grandmother called and told him she needed a ride to church on Sunday morning, and that got him to start going again. So, Gary was old enough to drive when that happened.

At some point (I don't think he's ever said when - in fact, it could have preceded Gary's grandmother asking for rides), a man whose name I can't remember right now came along and persuaded Gary's father that he had to become a born again Baptist. I guess Gary joined the Baptists, but I don't know when. He never tells us anything about when or why his Mom signed on.

He tells a story about smoking two joints, that didn't make him high because God, and has made vague references to some drinking. He also talks about getting tickets for bad driving, but I don't know if he ever ran with a really wild crowd. And I don't know when all of this happened - my guess is teens and/or early 20s.

At some point, he was very involved in church life, had all the hymns memorized, was a song leader and "preacher's right hand man," but he was "playing church," he says.

Then, after a church service, on July 11, 1999 (so he was a few months shy of his 27th birthday at the time), Gary says he looked at the church doors and saw a vision of himself burning in Hell. Jesus passed by, and spoke to him (but not in actual words). He was told that, if he didn't get it settled that day, God/Jesus would never deal with him again.

Missing from this story is how his first wife fits into the picture, of course. I think Michaela was already born when Gary was born again - I believe she's 23 or 24 now.

And that's all I know.

Where does Gary's arrest fit in this - didn't we see an arrest in his name (maybe a mug shot even) a while back?

Gary is a mess, his timeline is a mess, and I am continually amazed (and grateful) you can put up with him enough to recap his sermons.

[thoughtful]

18 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Where does Gary's arrest fit in this - didn't we see an arrest in his name (maybe a mug shot even) a while back?

Gary's arrest was for Indecent liberty with a child.

https://webapps.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0174434&searchLastName=Hawkins&searchFirstName=William&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=2

He was 19, and we don't know how old his victim was. NC law:

Quote

 file:///C:/Users/pract/AppData/Local/Temp/p16062coll9_28146.pdf

So we don't really know if he was an adult disgustingly preying on a small child, or Gary being the idiot he is and not having a clue that the girl (I assume) was 14. (no, I'm not excusing it, but the "evil vs. stupid balance" problem may apply).

It is listed as a class H felony on the record, but, from what I can find, it seems to be class F now - no surprise, that, since 1991, there has been some change to take it more seriously.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

17 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Gary's arrest was for Indecent liberty with a child.

😧This shouldn't surprise me, yet it did.

Probably not Gary's fault because the girl's skirt was above her knee s/

[Alisamer]

46 minutes ago, thoughtful said:

Gary's arrest was for Indecent liberty with a child.

https://webapps.doc.state.nc.us/opi/viewoffender.do?method=view&offenderID=0174434&searchLastName=Hawkins&searchFirstName=William&listurl=pagelistoffendersearchresults&listpage=2

He was 19, and we don't know how old his victim was. NC law:

 file:///C:/Users/pract/AppData/Local/Temp/p16062coll9_28146.pdf

So we don't really know if he was an adult disgustingly preying on a small child, or Gary being the idiot he is and not having a clue that the girl (I assume) was 14. (no, I'm not excusing it, but the "evil vs. stupid balance" problem may apply).

It is listed as a class H felony on the record, but, from what I can find, it seems to be class F now - no surprise, that, since 1991, there has been some change to take it more seriously.

I thought it was something like that.

And thanks for the exact wording of the law! My co-worker's grandson is 16, and his girlfriend is apparently 12, so I think they just squeak by which she'll be glad to know. (Though the pics he has of her on his phone could easily get him in other kinds of trouble, I'd bet. The kid seems determined to end up in prison one way or another, sadly.)

I suspect Gary is ashamed of this arrest, or he'd be using it as a dramatic part of his testimony. But like his first marriage, he has kept it totally hush hush. 

[thoughtful]

@Alisamer, when this was first discovered (by @keepercjr ), someone looked up the law in NC. What I didn't know, and just found today, in that doc, is whether the five year age difference was part of the law in 1991.

I don't know if Gary feels ashamed of his crime. I don't know if Gary is capable of shame. It seems to me that a mix of "it's all under the blood" and his "nothing is my fault, I'm a victim" narcissism probably cuts off any feelings of culpability.

I think that using child molestation pre-salvation as a testimony might be a bridge too far for these folks, and he knows it.  They tend more towards drinking, drugs, motorcycles, tattoos and gangs in their stories.

Where divorce fits in is unclear, but it sure seems like he's not volunteering that information.

Edited March 7, 2022 by thoughtful
punctuation

[Alisamer]

1 minute ago, thoughtful said:

I don't know if Gary feels ashamed of his crime. I don't know if Gary is capable of shame. It seems to me  mix of "it's all under the blood" and his "nothing is my fault, I'm a victim" narcissism probably cuts off any feelings of culpability.

I think that using child molestation pre-salvation as a testimony might be a bridge too far for these folks, and he knows it.  They tend more towards drinking, drugs, motorcycles, tattoos and gangs in their stories.

Where divorce fits in is unclear, but it sure seems like he's not volunteering that information.

That makes sense. I was thinking that he would spin it as being seduced by a teenage floozy when he was a teen, and put it into his testimony. I guess it depends on the actual age of the victim. I would think that he would not consider "she's turning 15 in three weeks" to be child molestation even though it's against the law. But if the victim was younger... yikes. 

I'm really nosy and would love to know the details and dirty secrets. Who was the victim, and how old were they? Why did Gary end up divorced from his first wife? And how did HE end up with any of the kids?

[thoughtful]

6 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Why did Gary end up divorced from his first wife? And how did HE end up with any of the kids?

I, too, would love to know details about the former. Besides the obvious - he's a shit - I wonder if his increasing religious fervor was part of their growing apart.

I'm pretty sure he has said that both he and Becky were victims of fornicators, so, at some point in there, Stephanie must have had an affair, or started a new relationship while they were separated, or even divorced. Who knows, with Gary?

Your second question is a complete mystery. Someone saw Gary as the better parent, for some weird reason, or she didn't fight for them, or . . . ?

Spoiler

BTW, his ex-wife has another child, whose last name is Hawkins, and who I don't think is that much younger than Jacob.

I don't know if he was a product of a later relationship and that's why Gary didn't claim him, or whether he is biologically Gary's, or if nobody knows but Maury Povitch. I'm just glad he was spared life in the Gary caravan.

 

13 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I was thinking that he would spin it as being seduced by a teenage floozy when he was a teen, and put it into his testimony. I guess it depends on the actual age of the victim. I would think that he would not consider "she's turning 15 in three weeks" to be child molestation even though it's against the law.

Yeah, it's a tough call. In a way, I'm glad if that's not something his fellow IFBers would go for. I hate the stereotype of people in the Southeastern USA being 13-year-old-cousin-marriers, Jerry Lee Lewis aside.

But I can see how Gary would be clueless enough to paint it as her fault, especially considering what we just heard his father say!  Maybe he wanted to include it, and was talked out of it by Becky or someone else in his family with a few more brain cells than Gary and Daddy Danny.

[Joyster]

Gary’s pa, Danny W. Hawkins, answers a little about his own salvation history in his March 6, 9:15 am sermon.  I cannot summarize, spell the phrasing, and provide humorous commentary like @thoughtful. However, there is humor to be found in this sermon if you can get through Bro. Papa Danny’s long windedness. I like to look at sermons like I imagine an anthropologist would examine the sermons and glean a little bit about what made Gary who he is. Someone cleaned up around the sink at the kitchen church, so there is a clear counter for the preaching and singing.  Highlights of the sermon:

• When he was about 12 years old, Bro Papa Danny went to a place where he should not have gone--a fair!  He believes with all his heart he picked up a demon there, not in him but an oppression. He doesn’t say right away what was bad at the fair, but much later we find out that’s where he started to get addicted to smoking cigarettes, although he smoked his first cigarette at age 9.
• Ever since that fair, things were not the same.  He could borrow a vehicle, and everything would work fine.  But if it was his own vehicle, things would fly apart.  About six months after he got his license, his third car he bought, a car of many colors, had four flat tires that very first day.  He goes on to mumble about further woes with cars he owned. His daddy-n-law had a 55 Ford pickup which he borrowed all the time, and it worked great.  He later bought it for $550.  He went visiting the first time he owned it he got out of the house, and the truck got a leak.  The next week the hood flew up when his daughter Tracey was driving it.  The next week while taking someone to church, the truck blew a rod baler, and that was the end of the truck.  God is under control.  He believes on the lumber pile down there (I have no idea what this means, but it’s a fun saying), God had dealt with him about a sin.  19 years later, he quit [smoking] and the next week at church  God called him to preach.  Of course, he doesn't mention is he has better luck with vehicles after this.  

So according to Bro. Papa Danny, he started preaching when he was 31 years old after he quit smoking.  I do not know how old Gary would have been at that time, but Danny had a daughter old enough to drive.  Danny is 73 now. It appears he was attending church services before this great calling to preach.

Some other highlights:

• Most of  what pulls a person out [of the Christian life] is running with the wrong woman.  A lot of preachers would be better if they had better wives, but he can’t say that about his wife.
• He wants to have a revival starting the first full week of April.  Maybe they can get a tent. Hmm, I wonder who has a tent? They will have the revival on Thursday and Friday nights for three weeks with prayer for the meetings on Wednesday nights.  They need a lot of prayer for this.
• There’s no zeros in soul winning. He talks about “that Facebook”  There are 4.6 billion hook ups (I don't think he knows the typical use of the phrase hook up). He tries to do some math to understand how many people are hooking up with Facebook.  There’s 1000 million in a billion. He goes on about the math for a little bit.  Like most of the sermon, I didn't quite comprehend his train of thoughts, but I think it’s to show there are a lot of people on Facebook to be saved.  I just found the math commentary about all the hook ups with Facebook amusing.
• He talks about the people in Afghanistan being abused.  In the UK, they say that Putin is brutally killing the people.  He cut it off [the news?] so he really doesn’t know too much, but they are heading this way.  Putin wants to be just like Hitler and rule the world.  Across from Israel, they chant every day wanting to kill Americans.  Do you think they are going to do it in a nice way? We better pray every day.  Can  you imagine doing this without God?  People are not seeking God because they don’t need him, but in Ukraine, they found a need for God.  They are looking for God.  We better get it to them.  Children, there are seven billion people in the world.  There’s plenty to do.  We need to be praying for our leaders.  We need to be praying for the revival.  I’m not sure if Bro.Papa Danny believes Putin is causing all of this since he’s all over the place with his geography and details, but he gets that Putin is not good, so there’s that.

 

[postscript]

7 minutes ago, Joyster said:

Ever since that fair, things were not the same.  He could borrow a vehicle, and everything would work fine.  But if it was his own vehicle, things would fly apart.  About six months after he got his license, his third car he bought, a car of many colors, had four flat tires that very first day.  He goes on to mumble about further woes with cars he owned. His daddy-n-law had a 55 Ford pickup which he borrowed all the time, and it worked great.  He later bought it for $550.  He went visiting the first time he owned it he got out of the house, and the truck got a leak.  The next week the hood flew up when his daughter Tracey was driving it.  The next week while taking someone to church, the truck blew a rod baler, and that was the end of the truck.  God is under control.  He believes on the lumber pile down there (I have no idea what this means, but it’s a fun saying), God had dealt with him about a sin.  19 years later, he quit [smoking] and the next week at church  God called him to preach.  Of course, he doesn't mention is he has better luck with vehicles after this. 

So Gary's bad luck with vehicles is inherited?  Since they've both driven school buses, you'd think they'd know a bit about vehicle maintenance. Perhaps Satan attacks both Gary and Daddy Danny through their trucks? Or, more likely, they purchase junkers and run them into the ground.

 

10 minutes ago, Joyster said:

Most of  what pulls a person out [of the Christian life] is running with the wrong woman. 

 Blame women for everything, of course. And if this is true, "person" by definition only refers to men. Or does running with the wrong woman also pull women out of a Christian life? 

[Joyster]

Many parts of Bro. Papa Danny's sermon were incomprehensible to me.  One part that was different from Gary was that in two parts of the sermon, he mentions other denominations in a respectful way, although he clearly thinks poorly of Catholics.  He mentions Methodists, Baptists, and what sounds like "wholenists".  Maybe he was trying to say Calvinists?  Anyways, there was a Christian man he liked who was a "wholenist" and said something that stuck with Bro Papa Danny, although I don't think he ever really got to what that was.

Gary is always so rigid with the KJV, independent Baptist stance; I was surprised to hear other denominations spoken of in a neutral, respectful tone.

I can't figure out why Caleb is attending these services and not the services at his fiance's church.  Maybe he is staying with family and is required to be part of the home church.  His guitar playing is the best part of the musical parts of these services.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Joyster

[Xan]

17 minutes ago, Joyster said:

He mentions Methodists, Baptists, and what sounds like "wholenists".

I have relatives near there so I think he's talking about "Holiness".  It's sort of a fundamentalist off-shoot of Methodist.

I think Caleb wants to preach like his dad and granddad so he might be sticking close so he can take over Danny's church.  Danny doesn't look all that well to me.  

I don't know whether the Hawkins' men buy junker cars or if they know absolutely nothing about maintenance.  I guess it's a combination of both.  

As far as "believing on the lumber pile down there", that's Danny's nod to the fires of Hell.  I agree that it's preferable to the way Gary describes it.

I love your description of Danny talking about Facebook.  I didn't realize I was hooking up!

[thoughtful]

12 minutes ago, Joyster said:

When he was about 12 years old, Bro Papa Danny went to a place where he should not have gone--a fair!  He believes with all his heart he picked up a demon there,

Bro Danny sings:

Are you going to Stokes County Fair:
Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme.
Remember me to one who lives there.
He once was a demon of mine.

Tell him to go haunt a Camry next,
Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme;
And leave the Fords he so has vexed.
’Cause he ain’t no demon of mine.

Tell him to find someone’s soccer mom van,
Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme;
Drown it in salt water, that’s a good plan,
’Cause he ain’t no demon of mine.

Tell him to gather some old Chryslers together,
Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme;
And pee on the fine, fine Corinthian leather,
’Cause he ain’t no demon of mine.

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

@Joyster, thank you for the recap of Brother Danny's mumbling mess.

On 3/7/2022 at 10:54 PM, Joyster said:

19 years later, he quit [smoking] and the next week at church  God called him to preach.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 10:54 PM, Joyster said:

So according to Bro. Papa Danny, he started preaching when he was 31 years old after he quit smoking.  I do not know how old Gary would have been at that time, but Danny had a daughter old enough to drive.  Danny is 73 now.

So, he meant 19 years after the fair was when he gave up smoking and started to preach? If so, and Danny is 73 now, that was 42 years ago - Gary would have been about seven.

I've never been able to get the number and order of Gary's sisters figured out (and, from what he says sometimes, neither has Gary). I think Kim Wells is a younger sister, but I don't know who the older one is/ones are.

On 3/7/2022 at 10:54 PM, Joyster said:

Ever since that fair, things were not the same.  He could borrow a vehicle, and everything would work fine. But if it was his own vehicle, things would fly apart.  About six months after he got his license, his third car he bought, a car of many colors, had four flat tires that very first day.

But he said he went to the fair when he was 12! How did he know that cars were  behaving worse for him after picking up the demon at the fair? Did he own and drive cars before he was 12? I mean I know rural kids sometimes learn early, but they don't buy cars!

Oh, and @Xan is right - he had to have been talking about the Holiness church.

BTW, while trying to figure out the sisters, I found Gary's grandmother's obituary - looks like she had become a member of a Baptist church at some point, even though she was buried at the Methodist one.

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/winstonsalem/name/dorothy-hawkins-obituary?id=22612862

Quote

Mrs. Dorothy "Dot" Mae Venable Hawkins, 89, died Sunday afternoon, October 30, 2011 at Walnut Cove Health and Rehabilitation. She was born August 25, 1922 in Stokes County to William Dewey and Carrie King Venable. She was retired from R.J Reynolds Tobacco Company with 25 years of service and was a member of Brook Haven Baptist Church. A 2:00 p.m. funeral service will be held on Wednesday, November 2, 2011 at Palmyra United Methodist Church with Rev. Sarah Smith-Pitts and Rev. Mike Manuel officiating.

Interesting that her full name doesn't include her father's surname, Dewey. I wonder if, before she was married, she went by her mother's last name, which was Venable. Now I can only picture her as Katharine Hepburn playing Violet Venable. I can't quite imagine Gary with an ancestor like that, though.

Spoiler

 

ETA - well, I can imagine him with one that warped and in that much denial, just not that classy and well-spoken!

Edited March 10, 2022 by thoughtful

[Joyster]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:54 PM, Xan said:

I have relatives near there so I think he's talking about "Holiness".  It's sort of a fundamentalist off-shoot of Methodist.

Thank you!  I've been trying to research Holiness. I can find things about the American Holiness Movement.  I was raised in a denomination that formed from the movement.  I also learned a lot about the Wesleyan-Holiness origins of a christian college that I attended; the top three denominations of the students make a little more sense now.

I never heard of "Holiness" phrased like a denomination, however. Churches that describe themselves as "holiness" seem to have some strict dress codes, so I can see Bro. Danny appreciating that.   

[thoughtful]

Danny (and Gary, when he refers to them) might be talking about the Pentecostal Holiness Church sometimes, as well as the Wesleyans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Pentecostal_Holiness_Church

I know Gary refers to the teen boys in South Dakota, who argued that one could lose their salvation if they died during a "bad dream" as "Wesleyans," and said his father used to debate with "a Wesleyan" he knew from bus driving.

But he also insults people who speak in tongues (which is Pentecostal, and I think a Pentecostal Holiness belief, as well) and believe that "living holy" is what gets them into Heaven. He had a whole riff he repeated a few times about a "Holiness" guy who said the latter, when he was in New York.

And again, I'm at a loss for details, because these guys are not ecumenical scholars. Their knowledge of other denominations and religions consists of a few fragmented stereotypes, so it's hard to tell who they are dissing sometimes.

Edited March 10, 2022 by thoughtful
clarity

[whitney37354]

16 hours ago, thoughtful said:

@Joyster, thank you for the recap of Brother Danny's mumbling mess.

 

So, he meant 19 years after the fair was when he gave up smoking and started to preach? If so, and Danny is 73 now, that was 42 years ago - Gary would have been about seven.

I've never been able to get the number and order of Gary's sisters figured out (and, from what he says sometimes, neither has Gary). I think Kim Wells is a younger sister, but I don't know who the older one is/ones are.

But he said he went to the fair when he was 12! How did he know that cars were  behaving worse for him after picking up the demon at the fair? Did he own and drive cars before he was 12? I mean I know rural kids sometimes learn early, but they don't buy cars!

Oh, and @Xan is right - he had to have been talking about the Holiness church.

BTW, while trying to figure out the sisters, I found Gary's grandmother's obituary - looks like she had become a member of a Baptist church at some point, even though she was buried at the Methodist one.

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/winstonsalem/name/dorothy-hawkins-obituary?id=22612862

Interesting that her full name doesn't include her father's surname, Dewey. I wonder if, before she was married, she went by her mother's last name, which was Venable. Now I can only picture her as Katharine Hepburn playing Violet Venable. I can't quite imagine Gary with an ancestor like that, though.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

ETA - well, I can imagine him with one that warped and in that much denial, just not that classy and well-spoken!

I think Dewey is her father's middle name, not his surname, which would be Venable.

[thoughtful]

2 hours ago, whitney37354 said:

I think Dewey is her father's middle name, not his surname, which would be Venable.

Oh, right! I should have realized that. Thank you.

Spoiler

Hey, look what else I found:

Spoiler

A Noyes who married a Venable. Could Gary and Jill be distantly related?

 

[Joyster]

Whoever was filming Gary's latest sermon rant seemed to be on a mission to make Gary look as small as possible.  Mission accomplished!

ETA:  If there was a bad filming techniques bingo, I think we would win with Gary posts.  Categories such as filmed sideways, filmed focusing on a body part we don't want to see, and filmed mostly focusing at the ceiling would quickly be covered. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Joyster

[postscript]

1 hour ago, Joyster said:

Whoever was filming Gary's latest sermon rant seemed to be on a mission to make Gary look as small as possible.  Mission accomplished!

ETA:  If there was a bad filming techniques bingo, I think we would win with Gary posts.  Categories such as filmed sideways, filmed focusing on a body part we don't want to see, and filmed mostly focusing at the ceiling would quickly be covered. 

Does Jacob film these or is Gary at the mercy of the churches he visits?  Many of them seem to be technology-challenged. I'm also invariably amused at how many random inanimate objects make guest appearances. 

Jill's videos might give him a run for his money. She manages to stay away from filming sideways or focusing on the ceiling, but she's a master of the shaky-cam and panning from some vaguely interesting activity to some dull scenery or surprise! Jill waving at us.  She also somehow invariably manages to capture David at his most unflattering angles. True, that's a low bar, but her videography does nothing for him. 

[Joyster]

Like all fundies, Becky needs to fact check and do her own research.  Becky, a friend on Facebook is not a reliable source.  St. Patrick was British, it is mostly believed he was a slave in Ireland during his late teen years (some small controversy on whether this is true), and he did go back to Ireland to minister to Christians and convert Irish pagans to Christianity.  He was also not a snake charmer. However, there is no record of him trying to set the Irish free from "beer, superstition, and debauchery".  In fact,  the stories tell of him incorporating  pagan rituals (what Becky thinks of as superstitions) to share Christianity.  I can't find anything about him freeing people from beer, but I did find an article from the BBC stating that he might have been fond of a pint:  The patron saint who "liked a drink" .  

Am I passionate about St. Patrick and do I really care?  No. I don't even like beer.  I'm just tired of fundies manipulating "truth" to fit their agendas.

 

 

[Black Aliss]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:16 PM, Joyster said:

Like all fundies, Becky needs to fact check and do her own research.  Becky, a friend on Facebook is not a reliable source.  St. Patrick was British, it is mostly believed he was a slave in Ireland during his late teen years (some small controversy on whether this is true), and he did go back to Ireland to minister to Christians and convert Irish pagans to Christianity.  He was also not a snake charmer. However, there is no record of him trying to set the Irish free from "beer, superstition, and debauchery".  In fact,  the stories tell of him incorporating  pagan rituals (what Becky thinks of as superstitions) to share Christianity.  I can't find anything about him freeing people from beer, but I did find an article from the BBC stating that he might have been fond of a pint:  The patron saint who "liked a drink" .  

Am I passionate about St. Patrick and do I really care?  No. I don't even like beer.  I'm just tired of fundies manipulating "truth" to fit their agendas.

 

 

St. Patrick's Day only got its reputation for drinking and debauchery in the US. In Ireland, it was a solemn day and everybody went to mass. Until sometime in the 1970's the pubs remained closed on March 17. Probably it changed because American tourists would come to Ireland to celebrate a real St. Patrick's Day and be upset to find all the bars closed for the day.

[PumaLover]

Ok folks-today I got to witness a full-on, screaming, yelling street preacher, and I instantly thought of Bro Gary. My husband and I came up to the city for the weekend and were walking around when we could hear someone yelling. I could see people looking around and I thought there was a fight or something. We finally realized there was a guy out in the middle of the street, screaming and preaching to the beat of rap music which was coming from a tiny speaker he was holding.  He was talking about how he was now free of drugs and alcohol and I guess it was because of Jesus? Anyway it was the closest I’ve come to any extremely religious people in awhile.

I need to catch up on Bro, btw. The Jill threads move so fast that they’re a full time job.

[zee_four]

The poor in England/Ireland/Britain/the UK got a good amount of their vitamins and calories from beer and ale, including low alcohol small ale for children and breakfast, all the way through the 19th century. Uppity middle class social reformers who pushed for temperance had an inadvertent negative impact on the health of the poor substituting tea and sugar in place of beer and ale. That combined with industrial era additives to bread that was now eaten with marg instead of butter led to the horrifically poor health of 19th and early 20th century urban poor. Not that the rural poor were doing better, most had become the urban poor due to being replaced by machines on farms as well as the upper class enclosures that began in the 18th century.

So getting rid of beer and ale led to the malnutrition, deformity and eventual deaths of millions in the 19th century. But at least the middle class Protestants felt better about themselves. 

The evil of alcohol didn't enter Christian theology until a combination of distillation that led to the insane gun and other hard spirit drinking of the 18th century poor, not that you could blame them since the wealthy had really made their lives the most miserable pretty much ever up until then, but the rich would rather blame to booze than themselves combined with Great Awakening Protestantism. 

For people who think the Bible is written by God, who happens to be a 16th century English speaker I guess they have no problem changing historical facts to their liking like Jesus only drinking grape juice which didn't exist until 1869 when Thomas Welch invited pasteurization to stop the fermentation process, but that's probably just fake news. On that note I wonder if God speaks to them in 16th century English... I mean he would have to right, because God's word isn't in heathen modern language. Oh wait he doesn't?? Because fundies struggle with modern vernacular let alone a 500 year old literary dialect? Color me shocked!