Harry & Meghan 8: Time's Most Insufferable

[viii]

Agreed; I'd rather be played a thousand times than not take someone seriously one time and lose them. 

I do agree that Meghan is a manipulative person, though, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think anybody who wants to thrive in Hollywood has to be calculating and while Meghan was never A list (I'd say she was D list, C list at best before Harry), I think she learned to adopt that Hollywood attitude and tried to apply it to her royal life. (Which was a massive fail but we all know that)

[HerNameIsBuffy]

35 minutes ago, viii said:

Agreed; I'd rather be played a thousand times than not take someone seriously one time and lose them. 

I do agree that Meghan is a manipulative person, though, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think anybody who wants to thrive in Hollywood has to be calculating and while Meghan was never A list (I'd say she was D list, C list at best before Harry), I think she learned to adopt that Hollywood attitude and tried to apply it to her royal life. (Which was a massive fail but we all know that)

Yes, manipulation can come in handy in the business world when swimming with sharks, especially Hollywood...but it's toxic if used on people you love in your personal life.  

[EmCatlyn]

4 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I tend to take people at their word if they say they're suicidal as I'd rather be played if I'm wrong than add to their despair by accusing them of being manipulative if it's real.  I have no reason to doubt her on this, none of us know her.  That said anyone who uses suicidal ideation as a manipulative tactic is a monster.  It's a terrible position to put your loved ones in and especially if one was pregnant.

For me that's something that if she did do it, no benefit of the doubt on anything ever again since I that's a boundary decent people don't cross, but we'll never know so on that I'm going to assume her recounting is genuine.

I don’t question she had suicidal thoughts.  I am not certain that she really was suicidal because of her history of exaggeration. It doesn’t matter, if someone mentions suicide, you take them seriously.

Telling someone you feel like killing yourself when it isn’t true is definitely the worst sort of manipulation.  I think it’s a little different when you are honestly reporting suicidal thoughts, but you may be doing so only because it will serve your goals/get you the attention you want.

It is hard to tell what really went on with Meghan when she was in the UK because some of her accounts stretch credibility.  In particular, her account of how she sought help and didn’t get it doesn’t ring true.

People have been blaming Harry for not having been there for her, for not getting her help. I think it is possible that she was invested in being “the strong one,” and didn’t show her despair (only her anger) until she decided that they needed to “find freedom.”  It would be no less a power move, but that doesn’t make her feelings less real.

As I said, I agree we can’t know her feelings except for what she tells us.

[just_ordinary]

Well, according to herself she talked about her suicidal thoughts to him on the night before the 19th January 2019. Their exit plan might have started to form there in a more realistic way. That’s still a long way to the SA interview and their exit in January 2020. That’s about a year to figure out, how to get her help even if no one else was willing to lift a finger. I mean, the end result of stepping away might have happened still. But there is really no excuse to not get your wife help after she explicitly told you she would like to kill herself (and you are the only reason she doesn’t- sorry but that’s the part where I think she was manipulative. It put a lot of pressure on his shoulders) over the course of a year.
I really don’t get either of them here. He should have called someone. Maybe even have her placed somewhere or stayed home with her and get treatments for her at home. She was pregnant at the time, they could have just come with some sort of ruse of health issues. He could have easily cancelled the engagement on January 19th by lying and saying she is in pain and needs to get checked or whatever. And she really did a low blow with making him the sole reason she doesn’t kill herself. How do you argue with someone that puts that kind of pressure on you? How can you deal with conflict. Heck how do you sleep? That’s a whole other level. 

And while I would also rather be save than sorry, I get why many don’t buy it. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Well, according to herself she talked about her suicidal thoughts to him on the night before the 19th January 2019. Their exit plan might have started to form there in a more realistic way. That’s still a long way to the SA interview and their exit in January 2020. That’s about a year to figure out, how to get her help even if no one else was willing to lift a finger. I mean, the end result of stepping away might have happened still. But there is really no excuse to not get your wife help after she explicitly told you she would like to kill herself (and you are the only reason she doesn’t- sorry but that’s the part where I think she was manipulative. It put a lot of pressure on his shoulders) over the course of a year.
I really don’t get either of them here. He should have called someone. Maybe even have her placed somewhere or stayed home with her and get treatments for her at home. She was pregnant at the time, they could have just come with some sort of ruse of health issues. He could have easily cancelled the engagement on January 19th by lying and saying she is in pain and needs to get checked or whatever. And she really did a low blow with making him the sole reason she doesn’t kill herself. How do you argue with someone that puts that kind of pressure on you? How can you deal with conflict. Heck how do you sleep? That’s a whole other level. 

And while I would also rather be save than sorry, I get why many don’t buy it. 

What bothers me the most about this, from both of them, is the narrative that she couldn't have gotten help.

There are so many people in this world who desperately need and want professional mental health treatment and can't get it because of the exorbitant cost.  Even with some low/no income places out there finding them and then all the red tape to prove you can't pay is incredibly daunting.  Our streets are filled with homeless people who desperately need mental health treatment, families under tremendous pressure and/or devastated because of a loved one's untreated psychological issues.  And these two, sit here now, apres crisis and still focus on how they couldn't get help for her.

She was in a better position to get help than 99.9999% of the world.  As you said, they could have made any excuse (I don't believe the public is owed transparency on that) or like you also said they could have gotten her treatments at home.  How many of us can say that?  Someone in our family struggling, let's pay a therapist to come to our homes and treat them privately as often as needed.  And keep going until we find the right therapist, unlike us commoners who, if we're lucky enough to have insurance coverage, have to find one who takes our plan, etc.  

I can't think of anyone who was in a better position to get the help they needed than they were.  Okay, maybe in the throes of it it didn't feel like that to her.  Fair, that's part of anxiety and depression...but he knew better!  And she knows better now and has she said one word about how she did have access to help and they should have handled it differently.

They want to do good in the world, allegedly, working to spread awareness of the dearth of mental health services for people in both the UK and the US who desperately need them would be a great cause.  

I think it would do both of them a world of good to stop naval gazing and actually do something for someone else for a change.  

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

Well, according to herself she talked about her suicidal thoughts to him on the night before the 19th January 2019. Their exit plan might have started to form there in a more realistic way. That’s still a long way to the SA interview and their exit in January 2020. That’s about a year to figure out, how to get her help even if no one else was willing to lift a finger. I mean, the end result of stepping away might have happened still. But there is really no excuse to not get your wife help after she explicitly told you she would like to kill herself (and you are the only reason she doesn’t- sorry but that’s the part where I think she was manipulative. It put a lot of pressure on his shoulders) over the course of a year.
I really don’t get either of them here. He should have called someone. Maybe even have her placed somewhere or stayed home with her and get treatments for her at home. She was pregnant at the time, they could have just come with some sort of ruse of health issues. He could have easily cancelled the engagement on January 19th by lying and saying she is in pain and needs to get checked or whatever. And she really did a low blow with making him the sole reason she doesn’t kill herself. How do you argue with someone that puts that kind of pressure on you? How can you deal with conflict. Heck how do you sleep? That’s a whole other level. 

And while I would also rather be save than sorry, I get why many don’t buy it. 

I just can’t believe that once she told Harry she was having suicidal thoughts, he didn’t move heaven and earth to get her help.  I might believe that she didn’t know how to get help.  I won’t believe that he didn’t because his mother had psychiatric care after she tried to throw herself down the stairs during one of her pregnancies, Harry himself spoke up about getting mental health help, etc.

Something is missing from this narrative, and I am guessing what may be missing is an accurate timeline/chronology.  Another part may be that Meghan did get some help but they don’t count it.🤷‍♀️   Who knows?

As for people telling you that the only reason they are not killing themselves is you, that is quintessentially manipulative, and even if it is true should not be said.  My mom (after my father died) said that regularly to my brother and me, and it was incredibly annoying and painful.

[TN-peach]

17 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I just can’t believe that once she told Harry she was having suicidal thoughts, he didn’t move heaven and earth to get her help.  I might believe that she didn’t know how to get help.  I won’t believe that he didn’t because his mother had psychiatric care after she tried to throw herself down the stairs during one of her pregnancies, Harry himself spoke up about getting mental health help, etc.

Something is missing from this narrative, and I am guessing what may be missing is an accurate timeline/chronology.  Another part may be that Meghan did get some help but they don’t count it.🤷‍♀️   Who knows?

As for people telling you that the only reason they are not killing themselves is you, that is quintessentially manipulative, and even if it is true should not be said.  My mom (after my father died) said that regularly to my brother and me, and it was incredibly annoying and painful.

Harry had the whole "Heads together" program about mental health.  He knew who to talk to.

Meghan would have been seeing a medical professional regularly during her pregnancy.  She could have talked her doctor, midwife, nurse about this during her appointments.  I know when I was pregnant they would ask about sleeping habits, eating habits, overall how was I feeling.   My doctor talked about how crazy hormones can make you feel so let her know if anything was out of ordinary.  I cannot imagine that a doctor seeing a member of the Royal Family is not going to their due diligence to make sure that everything is going well with the pregnancy. 

[Coconut Flan]

14 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

Harry had the whole "Heads together" program about mental health.  He knew who to talk to.

Meghan would have been seeing a medical professional regularly during her pregnancy.  She could have talked her doctor, midwife, nurse about this during her appointments.  I know when I was pregnant they would ask about sleeping habits, eating habits, overall how was I feeling.   My doctor talked about how crazy hormones can make you feel so let her know if anything was out of ordinary.  I cannot imagine that a doctor seeing a member of the Royal Family is not going to their due diligence to make sure that everything is going well with the pregnancy. 

All of this is why I can't accept Meghan's story as told to Oprah.  There are far too many holes.  

[viii]

You guys are looking at it through your lenses though, a by-stander on a message board. It's much different when you're in the situation and you're actually suffering a mental health crisis. I'm not going to speculate on whether or not I think Meghan was lying about her mental health. Someone who was suffering wouldn't have the logical and reasonable thoughts that you suggest like, "Oh, I should talk to my doctor about my thoughts while I'm here." Instead, they may feel more paranoia or fear about broaching such matters, especially in the royal family where there is such pressure to present a strong front. 

There may be holes in Meghan's story but given what I know about mental health from personal experience and from close friends/family, logic and reason rarely comes into play and so of course there are going to be "holes" to those sitting on the outside looking in. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, viii said:

You guys are looking at it through your lenses though, a by-stander on a message board. It's much different when you're in the situation and you're actually suffering a mental health crisis. I'm not going to speculate on whether or not I think Meghan was lying about her mental health. Someone who was suffering wouldn't have the logical and reasonable thoughts that you suggest like, "Oh, I should talk to my doctor about my thoughts while I'm here." Instead, they may feel more paranoia or fear about broaching such matters, especially in the royal family where there is such pressure to present a strong front. 

There may be holes in Meghan's story but given what I know about mental health from personal experience and from close friends/family, logic and reason rarely comes into play and so of course there are going to be "holes" to those sitting on the outside looking in. 

I absolutely agree, that's why in my post I said it was fair that she didn't have the presence of mind at the time to figure this out, but he absolutely should have.  

Also, the people I know who have gone through a mental health crisis sometimes don't recall the events the way others who were around them at the time do.  If they felt lost and alone that's their recall, even if a lot of people were trying to help at the time.  The trying doesn't leave an emotional imprint if it's overshadowed by the intensity of their own feelings, but that doesn't excuse them from trying to look back realistically before they publicly accuse people of not helping.

Another thing from personal experience, sometimes it's easier to blame an outsiders for not helping rather than the one you love.   Life is messy, more so with mental health crisis and sometimes it's tidier to pin the blame on someone even if it's far more complicated than that.

 

[viii]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I absolutely agree, that's why in my post I said it was fair that she didn't have the presence of mind at the time to figure this out, but he absolutely should have. 

This is true, but I don't think his mental health was much better. 

They both need help. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, viii said:

You guys are looking at it through your lenses though, a by-stander on a message board. It's much different when you're in the situation and you're actually suffering a mental health crisis. I'm not going to speculate on whether or not I think Meghan was lying about her mental health. Someone who was suffering wouldn't have the logical and reasonable thoughts that you suggest like, "Oh, I should talk to my doctor about my thoughts while I'm here." Instead, they may feel more paranoia or fear about broaching such matters, especially in the royal family where there is such pressure to present a strong front. 

There may be holes in Meghan's story but given what I know about mental health from personal experience and from close friends/family, logic and reason rarely comes into play and so of course there are going to be "holes" to those sitting on the outside looking in. 

What you say does sound quite likely. That’s the problems, isn’t it - when you need it most, it’s the hardest to seek adequate help and support for your mental health. 

The whole issue makes me think of Diana. Granted, Diana’s struggle with bulimia and depression started in the 1980s and the awareness about mental health has significantly increased over the last few decades. Still, the 80s aren’t that far back and I’ve often heard that the doctors treating her were mainly concerned that her illness would be somehow genetic and might affect William, the next hair to the throne (after Charles). Instead of getting Diana the medical support she needed, her issues were misunderstood and portrayed as a threat to the royal lineage. In a way, I could imagine that this made things worse for her. 

All that is to say that doctors treating the royal family can make mistakes and come to wrong conclusions, too. That’s unfortunate, but it’s the truth. I’m sure Meghan wouldn’t have encountered the very same prejudice against mental illnesses as Diana did, all I want to say is that just cause the BRF is rich and privileged, their members might still draw the short end of the stick in some ways. 

[Sarcastically spinster]

There's also the reality that sometimes people think they're offering help, and what they're offering is ultimately damaging, even though well-meant.  I've certainly experienced this, with reaching out to friends and the response being dismissive of the real issues, people trying to equate my struggles with their own and telling me to do the things that were helpful for them (trauma from CSA is not the same as anxiety, folks), not listening to me when I tried to give feedback to help them direct their support, etc.  

She may well have received responses that were meant helpfully, but that were ultimately dismissive/minimizing, and so recollections could legitimately vary.  It's not unusual to reach out to test the waters with something that's less than the full truth to see whether the full truth will be received well.  In her mind, she may have reached out for help and been blown off.  To others, she may have expressed some struggle that they genuinely tried to help her with.  

This is one where I can see how both versions could easily be true.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

There's also the reality that sometimes people think they're offering help, and what they're offering is ultimately damaging, even though well-meant.  I've certainly experienced this, with reaching out to friends and the response being dismissive of the real issues, people trying to equate my struggles with their own and telling me to do the things that were helpful for them (trauma from CSA is not the same as anxiety, folks), not listening to me when I tried to give feedback to help them direct their support, etc.  

She may well have received responses that were meant helpfully, but that were ultimately dismissive/minimizing, and so recollections could legitimately vary.  It's not unusual to reach out to test the waters with something that's less than the full truth to see whether the full truth will be received well.  In her mind, she may have reached out for help and been blown off.  To others, she may have expressed some struggle that they genuinely tried to help her with.  

This is one where I can see how both versions could easily be true.  

I'm really sorry that happened to you.  

[MomJeans]

I've been clinically depressed, and I know first-hand that it's incredibly hard to articulate what is wrong to others, or ask for help in a way that they can truly understand.  We also, as a society, don't really have the proper vocabulary to discuss depression.  There is a very real difference between "I'm sad" and "I'm depressed" but the average layperson doesn't understand that.

So, I don't in any way not believe that Meghan wasn't depressed or suicidal.  Also, though it's not discussed as much, prenatal depression is a serious issue.  It has affected many women in my family.

But, through therapy, part of growing is learning that you cannot blame other people for not knowing your personal thoughts and feelings.  People can only know what you tell them, and most people in your life do not witness your actions and feelings from the moment you wake up to the moment to fall asleep.  Most people in your life have no training in recognizing mental illness.  

So while I absolutely believe Meghan when she discussed her depression and suicidal thoughts, what I have issue with is using a world-wide platform, as a public figure, to place blame on Harry's family for a situation that they very likely lacked reasonable information about, or any necessary training to understand.  There is a massive difference from voicing these thoughts to friends privately, and choosing to do so on an international broadcast.  (And yes, I have seen other royals do this, and I criticize them as well for it!)  

Now as for being denied care:  She says she went to HR and was denied.  Yes. She was not employed.  HR is for employees, as I'm very sure they explained.  This makes absolute sense.  What does not make sense is:  her husband was a millionaire, and was further supported by his millionaire father at the time.  I really think the Royals have private insurance, but if not, they simply must pay cash for their healthcare.  Mental healthcare would be no different. However she obtained and paid for her ob/gyn --> that's how she could have obtained mental health care.  Or, just call any of your doctors, and they will tell you how to obtain mental health care.  In most of the U.K., GPs are required to provide emergency consultations if a patient says they are having suicidal thoughts. 

I'm sorry, but from what Meghan said, the person who actually failed her was Harry.  He presumably obtained therapy while living in the U.K. (he said in the past he did), not to mention I assume he has seen a doctor since leaving the military- so why suddenly was he completely unable to assist her in this?  And normally, this would be private and between them, but they chose to use an international broadcast to blame others.  

 

[Smash!]

Even tough I get Meghan couldn‘t ask for help or articulate herself, Harry being the person closest to her would have realized something was wrong with her. So why didn‘t he get help? He has access to the best doctors. 

[rosamundi]

I don't know how the Royals access medical treatment. The options are

• Private treatment, paying cash
• Private treatment, paid for with insurance
• "Blended" access, using the NHS for routine care and private treatment for follow-up
• NHS only (unlikely)

I know there are various medical appointments to the Royal Household, but I have no clue how access works and if anyone in the Royal Family can use them. If Meghan was feeling that the whole organisation of the Palace was against her, she may also have been reluctant to go down this route in case it caused her more problems.

I have medical insurance through work. Accessing mental health support recently was incredibly easy (which I am extremely grateful for). I realised that bursting into tears because the milk was off was not a normal reaction for me, so I phoned the insurer and got a referral to the mental health pathway, and was speaking to a triage nurse within five minutes.

This may not be the norm (and it's definitely not the norm for access via the NHS), but, frankly, I am struggling to imagine that I, a commoner, have better access to mental health services than the sixth in line to the throne and his wife, especially when they have done so much work to raise awareness of mental health issues. Harry, at least, would have known how to get help.

[EmCatlyn]

15 hours ago, viii said:

You guys are looking at it through your lenses though, a by-stander on a message board. It's much different when you're in the situation and you're actually suffering a mental health crisis. I'm not going to speculate on whether or not I think Meghan was lying about her mental health. Someone who was suffering wouldn't have the logical and reasonable thoughts that you suggest like, "Oh, I should talk to my doctor about my thoughts while I'm here." Instead, they may feel more paranoia or fear about broaching such matters, especially in the royal family where there is such pressure to present a strong front. 

There may be holes in Meghan's story but given what I know about mental health from personal experience and from close friends/family, logic and reason rarely comes into play and so of course there are going to be "holes" to those sitting on the outside looking in. 

The issue here is not whether or not Meghan was “really suicidal.”  The issue is that she says she tried to get help and was discouraged from doing so.

No one can know how she felt, but we can realistically speculate that she may not be telling the whole story when she claims that she couldn’t get help.

9 hours ago, Smash! said:

Even tough I get Meghan couldn‘t ask for help or articulate herself, Harry being the person closest to her would have realized something was wrong with her. So why didn‘t he get help? He has access to the best doctors. 

According to Meghan, she didn’t tell him anything until she had tried to get help in other ways.  At least, I think that was what she claimed.  What remains unclear is what he did when she told him she had been having “suicidal thoughts.”

Did he freak out and go see his own therapist?  Did he insist she get a therapist?  Did he say, “Oh my darling, we must escape?”

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Did he say, “Oh my darling, we must escape?”

I'm not making light of the topic, but can I just say that would be the most romantic response to a crisis ever.

[Smash!]

5 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

According to Meghan, she didn’t tell him anything until she had tried to get help in other ways.  At least, I think that was what she claimed.  What remains unclear is what he did when she told him she had been having “suicidal thoughts.”

But Harry had to realize something was different/wrong tough. If someone has depression the behavior and body language changes. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

But Harry had to realize something was different/wrong tough. If someone has depression the behavior and body language changes. 

It’s easy to attribute that to pregnancy, especially since it was their first. Unfortunately that’s likely what’s going on with Carlin Bates Stewart at the moment.

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, Smash! said:

But Harry had to realize something was different/wrong tough. If someone has depression the behavior and body language changes. 

Not always.  My daughter and I are both good at “acting normal” when depressed.  In my daughter’s case, I thought it was adolescent moodiness until she told me how awful she was feeling (and I got her help).  Harry could easily have thought that changes in Meghan were caused by pregnancy.

In fact, they probably were.  Pregnancy and post-pregnancy hormones do funny things to our moods.  (I remember crying about the stupidest things, and I am not generally a weeper.)  The thing with Meghan could very well have been a temporary effect of pregnancy hormones.  If her medical people (mid-wife or obgyn) were not asking about her moods and feelings, they weren’t doing their job.  If she was hiding her depression from them, it’s not surprising she concealed it from Harry.

I do not question that Meghan felt trapped and in despair and thought that the only way out might be suicide.  I have been there myself.  I do question the narrative that people who “should” have helped her didn’t. 

[just_ordinary]

10 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

The issue here is not whether or not Meghan was “really suicidal.”  The issue is that she says she tried to get help and was discouraged from doing so.

No one can know how she felt, but we can realistically speculate that she may not be telling the whole story when she claims that she couldn’t get help.

According to Meghan, she didn’t tell him anything until she had tried to get help in other ways.  At least, I think that was what she claimed.  What remains unclear is what he did when she told him she had been having “suicidal thoughts.”

Did he freak out and go see his own therapist?  Did he insist she get a therapist?  Did he say, “Oh my darling, we must escape?”

 

Well, part of the response was, „ok, let’s go to the Royal Albert Hall engagement“. I mean, if he, himself was in a bad place, that might have been his knee jerk reaction till both had time to talk about it. They might both have felt that they were trapped and no one helped them. Recollections may vary indeed.  But there is a massive difference to say, „I was struggling so badly and wasn’t able to stand up for me or articulate properly what was going on. In hindsight I should have x and y. Depressionen really fucks you over and it’s hard to ask for help. I really wasn’t able to do the logic thing: call my doctor- ask Harry to call my doctor. And sadly the people around me didn’t realise how bad it really was.“ VS „I was suicidal and they refused to get me any help“ which translates to „they were happy to have me die“. One is shining a light on how you cannot just rationalise in such a phase. Just like you cannot just snap out of an anxiety attack. The other is making others feeling sorry for you and antagonising others.

And regarding Harry: he spearheaded a mental health campaign and had several years of therapy on his back. So either he was completely overwhelmed in that moment, and/or his therapy didn’t work as well as he let everyone publicly believe. Whatever it might be, he should have had the courage to say that even after years of education and his own experiences in that area he wasn’t able to do the right thing. Cancel the engagement and call medical help. 
This would have been a great moment to showcase how helpless everyone involved can be in such moments (just like if you are in an accident and are supposed CPR. You know it by heart sitting comfortably in your couch, but with the shock, adrenaline and what not that’s a very different situation).

But the way they conducted the interview it was done with the goal to create maximum damage. And then some more in his other tv gig. And all of this only AFTER they didn’t get the exit they wanted. Their first five exit statements were worded VERY differently.

I absolutely believe they were unhappy. And that Meghan was deeply unhappy and can totally see her getting depressed and suicidal. But the way they told the story months afterwards, being briefed and having prepared for this, what came out of their mouths was inconsistent, muddied, making no sense and sometimes just wrong. They are their own worst enemy when it’s about appearing trustworthy, professional or relatable. 
I mean, you would think after such a phase that actually became as bad as being suicidal, she would have mentioned that she is still working through it. Instead, it sounded as if with leaving the RF all her mental health problems just disappeared into thin air. If it only were as easy as that. 
Now, they don’t owe us any insight into their physical or mental health. But if you bring it up on public stage in such a way than you cannot be angry if people talk about it and question you. It was their decision to tell those stories. Maybe they should have someone to read it first and point out inconsistencies. This happens to them all the time (how they would handle information about the birth, exit statements, announcements of what they are going do do - like when they wanted to provide truthful and scientific information about Covid, create a platform for unheard voices- no Elton John does NOT cut it, the title drama, the wedding date…). But I digress. 
Her (and his) mental health crisis could have been dealt better with and it’s sad if both feel they didn’t get any help. But most people realise that often enough recollections of the same event are different and can accept that everyone did what they thought was the best thing to do. And not, letting them drown. Because I am pretty sure no one was out to have her, the baby or him die. But maybe that’s what he/they actually believe?

Edited January 22, 2022 by just_ordinary

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

 ….
Because I am pretty sure no one was out to have her, the baby or him die. But maybe that’s what he/they actually believe?

I agree with everything you said.  I just want to reply to the above.

I don’t think they meant that anyone was “out to have her, the baby or him die.”  I think they just meant to emphasize that “no one cared and no one listened.”  They may believe that “no one cared” or they may be just suggesting this to justify why they had to get away from the cold, indifferent world of the Royal Family.

The whole Oprah interview was about airing their grievances and making clear that they had not “deserted” but had “escaped” an environment where they were not valued.  For this reason, the details of what really happened and how they handled (or didn’t handle) things are muddled.  As you say, they could have presented their experiences differently and in a way that helped others, but they chose not to.

Whether it is self-delusion or manipulativeness, the Sussexes don’t come across as credible even they are telling the truth as they see it.  We just can’t know.

The latest bit about how they can’t visit the UK without Royal Police Protection is another example of how they may or may not believe the story they are telling.  Is Harry really so paranoid about the dangers of not having police protection while in Britain, or is this a ploy to try to get police protection during their visits?

[clueliss]

The more technical term for pretending that everything is fine, is “masking” - and I do that all the danged time.  It’s quite easy to put on a fake smile and fake it.  Because my base reaction is “no no, help not needed here, move along”