Remnant Fellowship 19: Leaning on the Everlasting Gwen

[TDHuggies]

5 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

200%agree. What Joe Langsdon said is utter nonsense. It is such a ridiculous claim. It is one of those cognitive dissonance moments when I don’t know if I should laugh or scream at the insanity. 

I think he more meant "when other cults lose their leader they don't usually last even this long!" lol

[AmazonGrace]

L.Ron Hubbard died in 1986 and his alien saga lives on.

[TDHuggies]

1 minute ago, AmazonGrace said:

L.Ron Hubbard died in 1986 and his alien saga lives on.

True, but he had some dynamic and charismatic people ready to lead upon his death. However, things don't appear to be going as well for them any more. 

[AmazonGrace]

Scientology is so nonsensical to me I just can't understand how it ever became a thing.

[ManyGoats]

2 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

and we have objected to Gwen's hair WAY more than her views about trinity

😂 Indeed we have! I can't help but wonder whether anyone ever tried to tell her it was too much and was detrimental to her image. No one copied that look, that's for sure.

9 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

L.Ron Hubbard died in 1986 and his alien saga lives on.

True, David Miscavige had positioned himself to be the new leader. The Scientologists didn't dither around, trying to convince themselves he was the one. He just barged in and took over. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Scientology is so nonsensical to me I just can't understand how it ever became a thing.

Celebrities. Suck in the celebrities and people will come knocking to get in too.

[ManyGoats]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Celebrities. Suck in the celebrities and people will come knocking to get in too.

Too bad Joe Lara didn't have quite the same drawing power as Tom Cruise. 😜

[formergothardite]

29 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

Too bad Joe Lara didn't have quite the same drawing power as Tom Cruise. 😜

It didn’t help that Joe didn’t appear to like Gwen or her teachings. He didn’t exactly have the zeal of a new convert. 

[quiversR4hunting]

Since Joe was brought up, anyone have an updates on the kids orphaned by the plane crash? I know Joe's daughter wasn't orphaned because her mom is alive, I hope she is doing well. 

[TDHuggies]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Bob for reinvigorating our commitment to sharing and showing examples of what an effed up place RF really is. We were slowing down there for a minute. lol

[JermajestyDuggar]

Elizabeth’s house still hasn’t sold. They cut the price by $150,000 on the 23rd.

[My Fam in RF]

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Compared to that why the hell does anyone care about her stance on a confusing theological point?!

Because all the abuse is a product of bad theology. Bad theology is the foundation/root of all the awful that has come out of RF. Same with any normal church.

[cookingbutterchicken]

8 hours ago, RFsurvivor said:

Oh also maybe go look at the previous thread where current church member Rob Day came on here and attacked my experience. Do you really want to be associated with that type of behavior?

I am so sorry you have ever been attacked by anyone much less a remnant person. 
 

I don’t remember this. Can you tell me which thread and page please?  How did you know it was Rob?

Again, I am so sorry. I had a remnant person yelling at me holding her first granddaughter that was about a week old telling me how I wasn’t following “leadership” like I should!🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

[formergothardite]

33 minutes ago, My Fam in RF said:

Because all the abuse is a product of bad theology. Bad theology is the foundation/root of all the awful that has come out of RF. Same with any normal church.

Bad theology is a relative term. When I became Episcopalian the Baptist I knew warned me about how the “bad theology” was going to lead to all sorts of awful things. It didn’t. That people disagree with the theology doesn’t necessarily make it bad or dangerous. 
 

Not believing in the trinity isn’t abusive. People can not believe in the trinity and be perfectly wonderful people who never hurt their children or spiritually/mentally abuse others. RF suddenly teaching the trinity would change absolutely nothing about their abusive, cult like behavior, because that particular belief isn’t the issue. They will still be the same awful cult if you toss in the trinity. 
 

Believing in the trinity wouldn’t have kept that child from being tortured to death. It wouldn’t have changed shit. We sadly know this because FJ has watched entirely too many people who staunchly believe in the trinity abuse their children. 

The foundation of evil in the church is that Gwen was a greedy, uncaring asshole who realized she could save money and get a steady stream of customers by turning her weight loss program into a church. Like mentioned by another poster, Gwen is a scam artist. 
 

 

[My Fam in RF]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

That people disagree with the theology doesn’t necessarily make it bad or dangerous. 

no no no sorry. of course there are plenty of things people disagree on and yet they can still have unity in what they believe. And some people get a little crazy with the hills they're willing to die on. By bad theology I mean ideas that differ from the core tenants of the faith. The trinity is important not for what it is but for what it implies. If Jesus isn't God then you're not saved by grace through faith. Which means you have a works based religion and thats the dangerous part. The part where you're trying to achieve perfection. And you never will. And that causes for shame and secrets.

It's not just the trinity. That just maybe is where it started to fall apart. There is so much more that they believe that does not aline with very basic christianity.

What I'm not saying is that if you agree with the "right" belief, then you won't abuse people. What I am saying is the outcome of receiving and understanding grace should produce real fruit where you actually care for and love others and serve the Lord. They don't produce fruit. Just leaves. Really ugly leaves. (Matthew 21:18-22)

[formergothardite]

16 minutes ago, My Fam in RF said:

The trinity is important not for what it is but for what it implies. If Jesus isn't God then you're not saved by grace through faith. Which means you have a works based religion and thats the dangerous part. The part where you're trying to achieve perfection. And you never will. And that causes for shame and secrets.

Spend any time on FJ and you will see how being grace only salvation can also be dangerous. So many of the people we discuss are grace only when it comes to salvation and they take that as meaning they don’t need to try to be nice people at all. And if questioned they will go into rants about how they are saved by grace and don’t believe in works based religion. It isn’t really about theology of grace vs works, it all comes down to the people. Some lovely people will believe in work based salvation, some horrible folks grace based. 

I judge a theology as bad based of it it harms the person or causes them to harm others. Gwen’s diet theology , her support of hitting children, how she cut off members from their family and friends, those caused harm. But saying that she doesn’t believe in the trinity doesn’t appear to cause people to hurt themselves or others. She did still believe Jesus was the son of God and that Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of humanity and that through the blood of Jesus people are saved. This is so close to mainstream theology on salvation it is difficult to see how that is the thing that people get upset over. Especially when her followers tortured a child to death and she defended them. In the grand scheme of her beliefs, the trinity stuff is fairly innocuous.

 

 

[finacial ice]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:59 AM, RFfamANON said:

And then there is “this is satan throwing up roadblocks that you must go over” Or “god must be disciplining you”. Or even worse “what are you holding on to that God wants you to let go of before he can bless you” It all depends of course upon your status within the system. Those in the inner circle get more affirmations from God while those who are not get a lot more discipline from Him. I’m all for trying to follow God s will but in RF it’s really about Leadership’s will, not God’s.  It’s total cognitive dissonance for me. Really disturbing. 

This is correct. Leadership will make into anyone of those those excuses, especially ones that will lead u towards an outcome that would be  benefiting them or the church. 

14 hours ago, Bob said:

This post would be an example of why I finally jumped on to pose some questions to you all. You say that you are not a member nor do you have any ties yet you think that everything being said by ex members should be taken as the gospel. My exposure is different than yours. I was invited to a wedding and was very impressed. Of course I googled the church and saw the negative press and found this forum. I see what is written by ex members Then those who take what they say as fact add to it, many times with this forum being their only source of information. There is also some friends and family members on here who I’ve seen write a lot of negative stuff but again it seems to me like it comes from their families moving a different direction religiously. They seem to regurgitate negative stuff they read. I don’t see a lot of evidence that they really spent any significant amount of time visiting or talking to actual members. Then finally I’ve seen some friends and family who it appears do visit with their family or friends. Based on their posts they still have good relationships and have had glowing things to say about, as one said not long ago 99% of everyone they have ever met or interacted with, though it appears they still have concerns based on all the negative stuff they have read. That’s kind the category I fall into. I’ve read all the negative stuff but I’ve also been a semi regular visitor. I no longer have concerns but I can’t get past some theology differences at this point. I also can’t deny all the positive things I see. That’s why I jumped on here. To dig deeper into some of the accusations thrown around on here by questioning ideas that are taken as fact on this forum. So far most of my questions have been directed at RF members based on negative things I’ve read. Now I’ve decided to question the other side. I actually don’t take a position on what ex members say. You've probably heard the analogy that if you question 20 witnesses to a car accident you’ll get 20 different perspectives of what happened. I don’t really take a position on what ex members have to say. I can’t personally discount the experience they may have gone through. I wasn’t there. Since I have visited quite a few times I also have witnessed what happy members have to say.  I have witnessed some of their lives up close. The conclusion I’ve come to so far is that the vast majority of those who join Remnant seem to stay and and are happy and then there’s a few for one reason or another had a bad experience and left. As I said in another post that’s pretty normal of any organization. You’re always going to have haters for a multitude of reasons. RF is more susceptible to that because they go against the grain of most churches when it comes to their belief in the Trinity and their differences with what I would call the once saved always saved theology that most churches have. From my church background that puts them in the cult category automatically. I guess that’s why they say don’t talk about religion and politics with friends and family if you want to keep friends and family. 
 

by the way, being New to this form I’m assuming that red number next to the notifications at the bottom means There have been a lot of responses to my questions and or comments. I’m just jumping back on from a few days ago because I had a little bit of time this morning. I wanted to address the question of why I’m on here that was posed in this post.  I don’t have time to look at anything else right now. I also don’t know how some of you have as much time as you do spend on this forum but to each their own. I’ll probably jump back on in a few days and try to answer whatever questions that may have been thrown out to me. Just wanted to make it known that I’m not avoiding any responses that have been made to my questions or comments  

 

well, Looks like a RF member was able to slip in......  

[Blue]

Bob's bringing up the trinity makes me even more convinced he's a current member. Whenever we would bring up TRULY bad things about RF... spiritual abuse... eating disorders... abuse of power... etc... rather than address those things, our family would always somehow find a way to prove to us that they're correct about the trinity. It's like that's the only "bad" claim about RF that they seem remotely prepared to discuss.

[finacial ice]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:58 AM, RFfamANON said:

I have eaten with my family members hundreds of times and they do NOT eat a normal amount of food. Taking tiny little bites, lots of smearing food around on the plate, lots of throwing food into the garbage disposal, and some purging if they eat more than a tidbit.  It is not normal eating!

 

“Attacking” is the key word here, Bob.  The word is thrown around at RF whenever anyone has any sort of questions. Sounds like you know a lot of people in RF. Perhaps you might want to ask them about the theology behind if you lose weight God will bless you. Ask them about their definition of grace. FYI- Grace is not something you have to earn from God. If they say otherwise they are manipulating.  
 

You said the proof is in the success of their members.  What is their definition of success? what fruit from the spirit are they exhibiting? How are they serving the poor, the homeless, the impoverished?  How have they provided clothes to the naked, looked after the sick, or visited those in prison- not members but strangers (Matthew 25) That is what God asks for.  And even if we don’t do any of these things he STILL loves and blesses us.   I am not thin and I mess up everyday and I sin and I fall short of the Glory of God (romans 3:23) and I am blessed beyond belief!  I have a full rich rewarding life!  I am filled with the Holy Spirit. I have a wonderful spouse and children! I have a fabulous job that I love and that provides for my family! I don’t need to obey Gwen or anyone else in order for God to bless me and neither do you.  He will bless you regardless of any of that.  I am proof!

I have to admit that it really seems like you are a member and are really not interested in theses responses so this will likely be the last time I engage with you because you discounting my firsthand experience is totally cringe. (I would be very interested in hearing your responses to the questions that have been asked of you in this thread but I doubt that you are brave enough to answer them.)

Before I go I will say this. Gwen Shamblin and the leadership of RF are/were manipulative, are taking advantage of people and causing ALOT of damage. I have seen it and it is disturbing.  

EXACTLY!!!  I have personally seen the damage, and I have lived it.   I will never be the same normal person I was before joining this cult.  So "Bob", all your babble your typing on here is clearing RF babble.  Please don't waste your time on the exhausting rambling .  I was, or maybe i am a member just like u are now. I am all too familiar with what you are dong, and the intentions.......   

[finacial ice]

15 hours ago, treemom said:

I’m not sure how you can claim you are discounting the experiences of some when you specifically say in this post and other posts that the real problem is the ex members or non members here really just don’t like the theology. Despite the fact that almost all of the issues have been illuminated using direct often multi paragraphs quotes from Gwen

 

also it’s poor form and obviously an attempt to shame and judge those by pointing out you just don’t have the time and how do we have all the time we do?  What purpose did you hope that commentary to serve?

"Bob" states he just doesn't have the time?  He sure has the time to type his long and exhausting ramblings. Hmmmm....remind u of anything or anyone? lol 

[finacial ice]

3 minutes ago, finacial ice said:

"Bob" states he just doesn't have the time?  He sure has the time to type his long and exhausting ramblings. Hmmmm....remind u of anything or anyone?  I think he may have given himself away.  I will say  RF members are  highly intelligent and very smart in everything they do, but maybe "BoB" is just under alot of stress right now with all the uncertainty thats going on in the RF cult, looks like he's slipping a bit.

 

[finacial ice]

9 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It didn’t help that Joe didn’t appear to like Gwen or her teachings. He didn’t exactly have the zeal of a new convert. 

Yes, I noticed that as well.  I think he probably seen a lot of disturbing things that he didn't agree with, shortly after they were married.  I'm sure he was very surprised and confused. But that's just my opinion....

[finacial ice]

14 hours ago, RFsurvivor said:

When I was a member, any “semi regular visitor” like you claim you are would have believed I was happy based on observation. Until I started questioning the church, I was completely sure it was the Truth and I was happy. I believed I knew the Truth and I was special. There was always a small voice in the back of my head that I told NO ONE about. Then when I was starting to deconstruct in my faith, I put on a damn good show that I was still happy while I was spiraling apart at the end. It was a shock to most of my friends and family when I left. 
 

You are only going to see what the current members need show and tell you, whereas people like myself have shared the trauma and harm that we came to in Remnant. Also, when you are brainwashed by a cult, there are things that you think are okay, but when you break that spell many people look back and realize all the abuse they unknowingly endured. 
 

If you are truly seeking answers here @Bob, I would start by addressing the multitude of questions that have been posed to you. 
 

lastly I would recommend a thought experiment to you.  Imagine you were raised in a church that you spent 90%+ of your free time at, that your family is at and all of your friends attend. You are told your church has the Truth in a sea of churches that do not have the Truth. You have seen the fruit for years and years. You are taken care of by your fellow church members and by your family. You don’t need to move out when you are an adult when you’re family loves you. You found your spouse at 17 and got married at 18 because it’s true love in God’s Remnant. You start having kids but since you didn’t get an education, you struggle. The church helps you and are now indebted to the church. You start to question the church. You realize that you don’t agree (for whatever reason, doctrine, the emotional and spiritual abuse, the hypocrisy) but you can’t leave. If you leave, your spouse will divorce you. If you leave they will take your kids. If you leave you have no support system because your whole life is Remnant Fellowship. So you know what you do, you put on a happy face and pretend. You try to go back to before you stopped believing and put on your cult mask (because you’ve realized it’s a cult by now) to protect the life and your family. 
 

 Now @Bob do you really think that the person dealing with this struggle would tell you they are? Or anyone struggling with something similar? They will not because they are trying to convince themselves and if they admit to anyone, the brainwashing and the spell begins to break. 
 

anyways, good luck with being a Remnant Member! Since that seems to be the path you are going. I hope for your sake you don’t join but you are already repeating talking points like a pro and adopted the us vs them mentality that is key cult behavior!

Nailed it!  Thank you.

[AnnaSofia]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Spend any time on FJ and you will see how being grace only salvation can also be dangerous. So many of the people we discuss are grace only when it comes to salvation and they take that as meaning they don’t need to try to be nice people at all. And if questioned they will go into rants about how they are saved by grace and don’t believe in works based religion.

Spanky Sproul is particularly obnoxious about that (of course, what isn't that man obnoxious about?)

I swear his whole argument boils down to "Whatever horrible things I do, and whatever you think of me, I'm saved, so you all can suck it. Neener neener!"

[finacial ice]

10 hours ago, TDHuggies said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Bob for reinvigorating our commitment to sharing and showing examples of what an effed up place RF really is. We were slowing down there for a minute. lol

HA HA HAAAA LOVE IT!!!

11 hours ago, throwaway9988 said:

Exactly! This is exactly how so many people have been tricked into joining Remnant. Because even if they’ve heard a few bad things, the Remnant leaders will tell them “Oh, just ignore the attackers online, Satan is just trying to keep you away from God’s Truth; if you are really seeking God’s Truth, then what you need to do is come to our church and experience Remnant for yourself and look at the fruit of this message.” That is the tactic that Remnant leaders repeatedly use to trick visitors into disregarding warnings from ex-members. More importantly, this tactic is designed to trick visitors into thinking they are performing a legitimate experiment to prove whether Remnant is good or bad, when in reality no such experiment is occurring. So they visit Remnant, and of course they get swept up in all the happy faces and breathlessly excited testimonies. Just like @RFsurvivor said, the visitor only sees good fruit, because all the people in the cult who are hurting are also trapped/browbeaten/guilttripped/etc and are under immense pressure to hide the bad fruit and act happy. The visitor then goes home and thinks that they just proved to themselves that Remnant has so much good fruit so it must be a good message full of Truth…when in reality all the bad fruit was hidden from them by design, and it wasn’t truly a legitimate experiment at all. 
 

That’s why thinking you can visit Remnant in order to judge it with your own eyes and ears is falling into Remnant’s trap and letting yourself be tricked; it is a cult that is literally designed to pressure people into only displaying good fruit for God’s glory while desperately trying to hide all of the bad fruit. How can you judge it correctly when most of the evidence is being withheld from you? Desperately scrambling for weak excuses to ignore the warnings of ex-members is falling into Remnant’s trap and letting yourself be tricked. Desperately scrambling for weak excuses to ignore 18 threads that reveal literal decades’ worth of the Remnant cult’s bad fruit is falling into Remnant’s trap and letting yourself be tricked. 
 

 

 

And this is EXACTLY what happened.