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Remnant Fellowship 19: Leaning on the Everlasting Gwen


Coconut Flan

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2 hours ago, Cults-r-us said:

Who could sit thru this? Rufus bless

By the sound of it STAND through this. 😳

”I know y’all are standing” is mentioned close to the end of her rambling and she starts of whole word-salad with something similar.

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4 hours ago, freefromthin said:

OK, so  I took the liberty of typing out Elizabeth's ENTIRE message.

Omigosh, you deserve an award for this.🏆 Your brain must be scrambled by now!

2 hours ago, RFfamANON said:

Because maybe.. just maybe, she is humble enough to really be listening for Gods lead instead of manufacturing the nonsense that Gwen peddled. 

I hope you're right. To me it sounds like she's trying to get God to show her what Gwen wanted. That's backwards. If she wants to lead, she should be trying to discern what God wants for RF going forward. Of course, she is getting pressure to be Gwen 2.0 so that may be why she's trying to figure out what Gwen was planning.

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On 8/21/2021 at 6:36 PM, NarcissismKills said:

the authoritá

I’ve oft wondered how to spell this, and thus am happily indebted to you! 

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27 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

Omigosh, you deserve an award for this.🏆 Your brain must be scrambled by now!

 

I hope you're right. To me it sounds like she's trying to get God to show her what Gwen wanted. That's backwards. If she wants to lead, she should be trying to discern what God wants for RF going forward. Of course, she is getting pressure to be Gwen 2.0 so that may be why she's trying to figure out what Gwen was planning.

It really WAS! I don't type very well (hunt and peck) so I had to rewind it a lot. It took me a while to get it all down. 

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2 hours ago, SayonaraLara said:

on the day of 8/18 at the same time the church was struck by lightning

Wait, what? Did this really happen? 

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34 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Wait, what? Did this really happen? 

Elizabeth said so: “y'all noticed the webcast flickered during Gwen's webcast on Wednesday night (8/18), there...lightening had struck the steeple.”

But whether that’s true or if there’s proof, etc., I don’t know. She was not there; it’s apparently what she was told. (I don’t necessarily believe her or the yes-people who tell her things.)

Anytime there’s weather or technical issues or any phenomenon, it’s never just what it is — it’s always viewed by Remnant as sign from God or it’s warfare from the enemy, so ...?

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I had a few thoughts reading the "message" from Elizabeth.  

1.  She is in no way, shape or form going to be able to lead this group.  If I were a leader, I would be coming up with a Plan B.  I feel bad for her.  I'm so glad my mom never started a cult and then died and left me to pick up the pieces.  

2.  I wonder how long this can go on before people will start leaving en masse?

3.  I wonder how many have left already?  Did anyone watch it live to see how many people were in the audience?  Does it look like the numbers are dwindling?

4.  Did Gwen's "messages" feel like this?  Rambling and not really saying a whole lot.  Not a real sermon with scripture, just speaking from the hip.  Did Gwen go on and on about signs as much as the two messages I have heard from Elizabeth?

5.  You can tell her state of mind and the things that are really weighing on her.

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1 hour ago, RFFriend said:

  She is in no way, shape or form going to be able to lead this group.

Agreed. It took her 2,720 words to say, "I'm trying to figure out what to do but I still don't know."

I feel sorry for her, too, because I think it's beginning to dawn on her that she isn't up to the task. She's in way over her head and is overwhelmed with this second wave of realization (the first being the sudden loss of her mom and husband).

1 hour ago, RFFriend said:

If I were a leader, I would be coming up with a Plan B. 

I think they depended so heavily and deferred to Gwen so completely that independent thought doesn't come easily or naturally. My guess is that they'll wait a little longer on Elizabeth than they should and will only change course when it's abundantly clear that she isn't Gwen2.

I continue to be fascinated with this group. In a cult of personality, it usually collapses when the leader is taken out -- unless someone else is poised and ready to take over. RF doesn't appear to have anyone like that so it actually might cave in on itself.

They are trying to keep it together, proclaiming their total and complete unity and their unwavering support of the leadership but, like others here, I think that kind of talk reveals what's on their minds and what's happening in their midst.

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I woke up last night thinking about Elizabeth. I remember what it was like for me sitting in my Baptist church listening to testimonies where people would talk about God’s leadings or feeling the spirit of God. I would sit there wondering what was wrong with me that I didn’t get these leadings or emotions. It is a horrible feeling. Elizabeth is dealing with that sort of a thing but on a much larger scale. She just suffered an extremely traumatic life experience, she was a true believer in her mom, she is being expected to suddenly replace her charismatic mother and she can’t understand why God isn’t talking to her like he talked to her mother. It is no wonder she went to the beach and just phoned in.
Someone in a leadership position has to be bright enough to figure out Elizabeth isn’t going to be able to pull this off. If they don’t produce a leader soon, people will leave. There are plenty of churches that promise to tell members The One True Way to live. The sheeple will find a new shepherd. 

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Elizabeth's signs are clearly being shared out of a desperation. Gwen's signs were shared with "certainty".  That can't be lost on the other leaders. I'm not sure the church-cult won't continue on but I don't see how Elizabeth is going to be able to take over.

Fragmented ramblings like she just put forth yesterday won't cut it. Gwen had an assurance in her speaking and I don't remember her ever coming off as a frightened child. I don't know that there is anyone there who has that same confidence. You HAVE to have confidence in order to guide and sway opinion. 

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29 minutes ago, TDHuggies said:

Fragmented ramblings like she just put forth yesterday won't cut it. Gwen had an assurance in her speaking and I don't remember her ever coming off as a frightened child

Gwen for sure rambled, but you are right, she never came off as frightened. My heart was aching for elizabeth as I was reading the transcript.  It seems like she is really trying to be what her mom was faking. That would cripple anyone. No one can legit be what Gwen was because Gwen was all (h)air and no substance. She was a conniving manipulative person who took advantage of so many people.

In the midst of her trauma, Elizabeth must be utterly exhausted 

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3 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

Gwen for sure rambled, but you are right, she never came off as frightened. My heart was aching for elizabeth as I was reading the transcript.  It seems like she is really trying to be what her mom was faking. That would cripple anyone. No one can legit be what Gwen was because Gwen was all (h)air and no substance. She was a conniving manipulative person who took advantage of so many people.

In the midst of her trauma, Elizabeth must be utterly exhausted 

YES she definitely rambled. But she did it with confidence! lol

Elizabeth misses her mother so much...you can see just how much she relied on her mom. Anyone who has lost someone as close as a spouse or parent knows the anguish and I do feel such compassion for her. She's so lost right now.

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Today we learn that God is unhappy with you because you haven't killed enough infants. 

Spoiler

Partial Obedience

August 23, 2021

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

Obedience is tested only when we confront something we do not want to do. In I Samuel 15 it tells of God ordering King Saul to totally annihilate an enemy. Through Samuel, God told Saul:

“Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” I Samuel 15:3

Saul did go to battle. He did most of what God had commanded, yet he spared Agag, the king, and took home some cattle and sheep. Did Saul obey or disobey God? Look at the text: “Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: ‘I am grieved that I have made Saul king, because he has turned away from me and has not carried out my instructions.’ I Samuel 15:10-11a Samuel confronted Saul, asking, “Why did you not obey the Lord?” and Saul tried to pass his actions off as obedience. “But I did obey the Lord,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the Lord assigned me.” I Samuel 15:19a,20a

Saul, you see, had the Cain Syndrome. He did the part of the command that came naturally—going to war—but where Saul’s will differed from God’s command, Saul chose his own way. It is all or nothing. God did not credit Saul with obedience, even though he had been victorious in battle and had carried out a large percentage of the commandment.

In the same way, God did not acknowledge Cain’s offering. God knows our hearts. Even though we give God some of the food—the convenient food we want to give Him—that is not being obedient to Him. He is asking you to go to the next level. Do not hold out. Rather, give Him everything He wants.

 

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Has Elizabeth or what is passing for leadership at RF produced any written messages about the faith since Gwen's death?  At a minimum, they need someone who can at least rehash Gwen's teachings for services and put out some devotionals not directly from Gwen.

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3 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Has Elizabeth or what is passing for leadership at RF produced any written messages about the faith since Gwen's death?  At a minimum, they need someone who can at least rehash Gwen's teachings for services and put out some devotionals not directly from Gwen.

Nope. I think RF needs more of what Elizabeth said and films of Gwen. I think that is the best way for RF to loose members and cease to exist. Rufus bless! 

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Ah, yes.  I was saying what they would need to do to continue which it doesn't look like they are able to arrange.  Their failures make me smile.

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20 hours ago, Strawbernana said:

It sounded like that dream was from 2 days before the crash? The dream that came after the crash was the one where Gwen reassured her. But also she apparently forgot the first dream until she was reminded by Erin about it so ???

Thanks for the clarification. You're right. I found the whole mess very difficult to follow.

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The thing about Erin reminding her about that dream has me thinking, Elizabeth seems to be in such a vulnerable state of mind right now, she’d probably seize on any suggestions that seem to promise guidance if they were presented as RF type vague signs. I hope no one in her circle is Machiavellian enough to start feeding her signs in order to effectively steer the whole ship. Gwen used to twist any old coincidence to “prove” whatever she wanted was God’s will, and through the constant testimonies every long term member is also well practiced in thinking in that way.

I think many threads ago @throwaway9988 broke down the heads I win, tails you lose, un-disprovable nature of their way of thinking really well. I’m on a short break from work right now but I can try to find it and quote it here later, it might help newer people understand what was going on in that epic ramble. Anything can mean anything if you’re not engaging logic and just looking for patterns constantly that you extrapolate into whatever specific thing you already believe or hope for.


I have a lot of hope this will be the end of RF but it seems like they’re at a very precarious state right now where they might go in any direction. I hope they lose membership quickly before they have a chance of going in a harmful direction based on a coincidence or dream or “vision”.

Edited by Strawbernana
Added paragraph breaks for readability
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12 hours ago, TDHuggies said:

YES she definitely rambled. But she did it with confidence! lol

Elizabeth misses her mother so much...you can see just how much she relied on her mom. Anyone who has lost someone as close as a spouse or parent knows the anguish and I do feel such compassion for her. She's so lost right now.

Maybe lost enough to seek God and come to or renew any real faith.

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13 hours ago, TDHuggies said:

Elizabeth's signs are clearly being shared out of a desperation. Gwen's signs were shared with "certainty".  That can't be lost on the other leaders. I'm not sure the church-cult won't continue on but I don't see how Elizabeth is going to be able to take over.

Fragmented ramblings like she just put forth yesterday won't cut it. Gwen had an assurance in her speaking and I don't remember her ever coming off as a frightened child. I don't know that there is anyone there who has that same confidence. You HAVE to have confidence in order to guide and sway opinion. 

i agree. And she in't the person she was years ago.  She's a completely different person now.  She knew this  would come some day. and  I truly believed she dreaded it.  But the leaders will do WHATEVER they can to keep it going.  There would be such financial devastation to the businesses that the members own, and i think Elizabeth feels obligated, they all supported her mother and gave up a lot to move here for her. 

3 hours ago, Strawbernana said:

The thing about Erin reminding her about that dream has me thinking, Elizabeth seems to be in such a vulnerable state of mind right now, she’d probably seize on any suggestions that seem to promise guidance if they were presented as RF type vague signs. I hope no one in her circle is Machiavellian enough to start feeding her signs in order to effectively steer the whole ship. Gwen used to twist any old coincidence to “prove” whatever she wanted was God’s will, and through the constant testimonies every long term member is also well practiced in thinking in that way.

I think many threads ago @throwaway9988 broke down the heads I win, tails you lose, un-disprovable nature of their way of thinking really well. I’m on a short break from work right now but I can try to find it and quote it here later, it might help newer people understand what was going on in that epic ramble. Anything can mean anything if you’re not engaging logic and just looking for patterns constantly that you extrapolate into whatever specific thing you already believe or hope for.


I have a lot of hope this will be the end of RF but it seems like they’re at a very precarious state right now where they might go in any direction. I hope they lose membership quickly before they have a chance of going in a harmful direction based on a coincidence or dream or “vision”.

Both kids were left millions $$, assets, and thriving businesses, from gwen. They wouldn't gain anything by keeping the church going other than exhaustion and headache.

On 8/22/2021 at 6:47 AM, RFfamANON said:

What is the excuse … ahem I mean divine  reasoning … that they are telling everyone? I mean ‘cmon how long has it been. I’m not saying that she doesn’t need time to grieve. Good Lord she DOES need time to grieve. But RF doesn’t grieve. That’s not “the way”.

So I’m curious about why they are ok with her calling in. I’m guessing that there has to be someone in authority saying something about this. Anyone know?  I can’t ask family without raising eyebrows and risking being cut off. 

When your desperate and have your mega income on the line, you will agree and accept whatever u have to!

On 8/22/2021 at 10:01 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I thought that most of them do a co-op or go to a local public school.

yes they do the co-op.  I believe it starts in September 

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7 hours ago, Strawbernana said:

I think many threads ago @throwaway9988 broke down the heads I win, tails you lose, un-disprovable nature of their way of thinking really well. I’m on a short break from work right now but I can try to find it and quote it here later, it might help newer people understand what was going on in that epic ramble. Anything can mean anything if you’re not engaging logic and just looking for patterns constantly that you extrapolate into whatever specific thing you already believe or hope for.

I think you are referring to the concept of confirmation basis.

Basically confirmation bias is a cognitive bias that causes people to search for, favor, interpret, and recall information in a way that confirms their preexisting beliefs.

Everything can and is a sign. If it goes how I prayed, God blessed me. If it doesn’t go how I prayed, must not be God’s will. Praise God for making sure I follow his will! 

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6 hours ago, RFsurvivor said:

Everything can and is a sign. If it goes how I prayed, God blessed me. If it doesn’t go how I prayed, must not be God’s will. Praise God for making sure I follow his will! 

And then there is “this is satan throwing up roadblocks that you must go over” Or “god must be disciplining you”. Or even worse “what are you holding on to that God wants you to let go of before he can bless you” It all depends of course upon your status within the system. Those in the inner circle get more affirmations from God while those who are not get a lot more discipline from Him. I’m all for trying to follow God s will but in RF it’s really about Leadership’s will, not God’s.  It’s total cognitive dissonance for me. Really disturbing. 

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Producing Gwennish content isn't that difficult. If they put any effort into it, they could whip up new devotionals easy as a pie.  Gwen had a few fairly predictable patterns. Here is a simple primer.
 

Spoiler

Examining Our Own Heart

August 24, 2021

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

It is the heart we should examine.

Rule 1. Talk about fixing the heart. There are several benefits. It's vague enough that people can never be sure if their heart is properly fixed so you can use it to make anybody feel guilty about anything. (Maybe they did the right thing but in their heart they did it for the wrong reasons,  shame on them... ) Also, people don't see what's in your heart and it's vague enough so they can never judge you.  You may have done the wrong thing but your heart was in the right place.

 

Spoiler

The person devoted to cleaning up what is outside their own heart is not doing what Christ did.

See Rule 1. They may have done the right thing but their heart still sucks, so here's your  free guilt trip card.  They're not Jesus so we can beat them up. (Nobody is ever Jesus.)

 

Spoiler

Christ loved and obeyed the Father and taught others to do the same.

Rule 2. Talk about obedience. You must obey what God wants. Of course, what God wants is what Remnant leaders tell you God wants.

Spoiler

Staying focused on loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself will make you a magnet and will help others.

Rule 3. Talk about love. Loving people are more loving.

 

Spoiler

The key is ending your relationship with food, overeating, binge eating, and binge drinking by a transfer of a relationship—

Rule 4. The key is always "don't eat", even when it's not the key. Nobody in real life is going to think that you're more loving and helpful  because you didn't overeat at dinner. Nobody's going to think you're a people magnet because you're skinny and starving and hangry all the time. Well, maybe at Remnant they do, but that's only because they make fat people pariahs.

 

Spoiler

a transfer away from the food and onto God Almighty.

Rule 5. Pretend that your eating disorder is a love affair with the Divine.

Spoiler

Another way to say it is it is a choice of lifestyle, but you need to know a secret so that you do not waste your time… It is all or nothing.

Rule 6. Make it black or white  so people are either completely devoted to doing whatever you're telling them to, or they're the devil and can be shunned as pariahs.

This has been an episode of the Gwen Shamblin Lara Style Guide.  Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.

Edited by AmazonGrace
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@AmazonGrace, I stand (sit) in awe!

About Elizabeth. She lost her husband and her children lost their dad. No idea how good the marriage was (mine looked GREAT when the ex- behaved in public), but the fact remains:

She’s left suddenly widowed with 4 fairly young children who must deal with the loss of their dad. 
 

If RF leadership - what’s left of it - had any sense, they’d be doing everything to support the bereaved Hannah family. The other families whose parents died too, of course, deserve all support available !


But they’re stretching Elizabeth awfully thin (unintended) to expect her to be New Gwen while she and her kiddoes  have a huge loss at home.

 

Which prompts the Q: Who are the leaders, after Gwen, the late Martins, and the other lost couple?

AND: totally tragic hindsight, but how much hubris (or lack of foresight), did they show in loading the plane with ALL 3 leader-couples AND the spouse of the heiress-apparent?

I’d love to see a quiet takeover of the congregation by a savvy cabal of liberal Presbyterians or liberal Lutherans.  Heck, UU’s!!!  
 

A beautiful campus, a well-heeled and reasonably well educated membership already exists.  In the right hands, that place could really do some good.  But, oh well. 

Edited by MamaJunebug
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this was published today in the LA Times 

"If you like documentaries about self-proclaimed wellness gurus, sketchy religious groups and women with gravity-defying hair, then mark your calendars for Sept. 30, when the first three episodes of “The Way Down” premiere on HBO Max. Directed by Marina Zenovich, the series takes a probing look at Gwen Shamblin Lara, leader of the Remnant Fellowship Church in Tennessee and founder of a controversial faith-based weight-loss program called the Weigh Down Workshop. Lara, who died in a plane crash in May, became a bestselling author and media personality whose program was adopted in thousands of churches worldwide, but she was accused of promoting dangerous ideas and abusive practices. Two additional episodes, which will explore the crash and its aftermath, will be released next year. — Meredith Blake"

So looks like the first three episodes will be ours to watch September 30!

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