Remnant Fellowship 19: Leaning on the Everlasting Gwen

[JermajestyDuggar]

49 minutes ago, TDHuggies said:

this was published today in the LA Times 

"If you like documentaries about self-proclaimed wellness gurus, sketchy religious groups and women with gravity-defying hair, then mark your calendars for Sept. 30, when the first three episodes of “The Way Down” premiere on HBO Max. Directed by Marina Zenovich, the series takes a probing look at Gwen Shamblin Lara, leader of the Remnant Fellowship Church in Tennessee and founder of a controversial faith-based weight-loss program called the Weigh Down Workshop. Lara, who died in a plane crash in May, became a bestselling author and media personality whose program was adopted in thousands of churches worldwide, but she was accused of promoting dangerous ideas and abusive practices. Two additional episodes, which will explore the crash and its aftermath, will be released next year. — Meredith Blake"

So looks like the first three episodes will be ours to watch September 30!

I can’t wait! I’ll try to watch right away and report back if anything new is said. 

[Bob]

On 8/8/2021 at 1:17 PM, shesinsane said:

Not only is he grieving (a time when lots of people comfort eat and gain some weight), but the constant reminder to starve suddenly cease when his mother died. His entire life she was a reminder of the many food rules,

I’ve been watching from the sideline for awhile. I’m finally going to jump in and ask some clarifying questions. My background is, I’ve gone through the weighdown class and read the book. I have some friends in Remnant. I visit periodically.

I’m confused on the food rules statement. Everything I’ve seen from weighdown teaches against the food rules of all the diets out there. Matter of fact it teaches eat anything you want. Just don’t eat until you’re hungry and stop when your full. Am I missing something?

[Bob]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:28 PM, Blue said:

I always thought that was sort of weird - we've had family and friends send us sermons we just "had to listen to" and it was so weird when the camera panned back and there was a bride, groom, and wedding party. 

Sorry if I bounce around. I’m going to be asking questions about comments that don’t seem to add up as I read them.
 

One of the major accusations I’ve read on many post is that when family or friends join remnant they abandon friends and family. I picked this quote to ask the question but I’ve read other people on here stating they also have friends in remnant. I’m confused by these two positions. Do they have friends outside the church or do they turn away from you if your not in the church?

On 8/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, shesinsane said:

As a Hebrew school dropout, I find it hilarious these people think they know more about calendars than a group whose calendar has more than 3000 years on RF's calendar. 
This year, Rosh Hashanah celebrates the start of year 5782 on 9/6 at sundown, 2021 is less than half as long as Jewish people have been tracking the days. 😏

From my understanding from what I’ve seen they make it clear that they are not legalistic about the dates. It’s the symbolism of honoring Gods festivals. Do you think they actually believe they have a new superior calendar?

[formergothardite]

28 minutes ago, Bob said:

I’ve been watching from the sideline for awhile. I’m finally going to jump in and ask some clarifying questions. My background is, I’ve gone through the weighdown class and read the book. I have some friends in Remnant. I visit periodically.

I’m confused on the food rules statement. Everything I’ve seen from weighdown teaches against the food rules of all the diets out there. Matter of fact it teaches eat anything you want. Just don’t eat until you’re hungry and stop when your full. Am I missing something?

Gwen teaches very disordered eating including practically worshiping hunger and eating a tiny bite of food every 36 hours. I would recommend skimming through threads here where her daily diet advice is discussed in detail. Her teachings on food are extremely unhealthy. I will never get over the time she made a video showing what she ate in a day and she ate virtually nothing. Her diet was junk food and trying to fight off hunger pains by gulping down large amounts of Diet Coke. 

[Bob]

On 8/13/2021 at 12:38 AM, Strawbernana said:

The first google result when you search his name is his LinkedIn page, it shows a bachelors degree in education and then he’s worked in healthcare administration roles since graduating. No mention of any religious training but I guess one might not put such things on their LinkedIn. I’d be surprised if someone joined RF after actually going through seminary though, their theology is pretty far out from mainstream Christianity.

I’ve actually met a few ex pastors who have joined remnant. It’s been interesting to me. They say they left main stream church because of the results they saw in remnant vs their churches or the church denomination they belonged to. I know the churches I’ve been around most of the youth leave the church when the grow up. An Unfortunate outcome of whatever is happening in mainstream churches. Seems like most of the youth in Remnant stay after they become Adults. 

[RFfamANON]

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

 

One of the major accusations I’ve read on many post is that when family or friends join remnant they abandon friends and family. I picked this quote to ask the question but I’ve read other people on here stating they also have friends in remnant. I’m confused by these two positions. Do they have friends outside the church or do they turn away from you if your not in the church?

I have family in RF. They have been in for a number of years. The best way I can describe it is that my family members aren’t the same as they used to be. It’s like they are shells of their former selves. No real conversations about anything. It’s only platitudes and Gwen quotes. And “praise GAWD”  I’m in touch with them on a weekly sometimes daily basis but it’s not really them.  I really miss them even though I’m “talking” with them regularly. And I know that at any moment if I say the wrong thing I will be completely cut out.  I have seen several people be disowned for discussions that were deemed disrespectful even though they really weren’t.  The message is clear:   Disagree  and you are OUT  

Aside from just missing my family members as their authentic selves, The theology that Gwen taught was less than stellar and it was all based on conditional love. If your do this God will bless you. If you get under the authority of Gwen and do what she says, God will bless you. If you lose weight God will bless you. That means they never get to rest in His live and grace. They never quite make it to the point where they are accepted because there is always more that they could be doing to get closer to God  they are only one mistake always from Him not blessing them anymore 

RE your question about food: One of my family members has a serious eating disorder. They think if they can’t control their eating then they better control my their weight by doing whatever is needed even if that means purging. Another family member is seriously malnourished. They cant run and play with the kids without being winded. They are not alone. I’ve spent a lot of time with RF folks and eating disorders are common. They say they don’t have food rules. But they have one big one. Lose weight and keep it off or it’s proof that you are not worthy. 

I hope that helps clarify things. 
 

 

[Bob]

3 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Gwen teaches very disordered eating including practically worshiping hunger and eating a tiny bite of food every 36 hours. I would recommend skimming through threads here where her daily diet advice is discussed in detail. Her teachings on food are extremely unhealthy. I will never get over the time she made a video showing what she ate in a day and she ate virtually nothing. Her diet was junk food and trying to fight off hunger pains by gulping down large amounts of Diet Coke. 

I have read most of the posts that are put in this forum. As I said I also read her book and went through the class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting. Curious of people’s thoughts of those teachings. 

[RFfamANON]

5 minutes ago, Bob said:

Seems like most of the youth in Remnant stay after they become Adults. 

Some stay some do not. Those who stay know that if they don’t stay they will have no relationship with the rest of their family. 

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting. Curious of people’s thoughts of those teachings. 

I wish this were true. But it is not. I am all for intuitive eating. I am not for making sure that you stay thin at all costs by licking a potato chip. (Yes that was advice of hers). What is damaging is the control and manipulation. That’s what makes it so terrible. 

[formergothardite]

17 minutes ago, Bob said:

I have read most of the posts that are put in this forum. As I said I also read her book and went through the class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting. Curious of people’s thoughts of those teachings. 

It doesn’t work for everyone. There is no one magic pill for weight loss. It is spiritual abuse for Gwen to act that her way is the only way God wants people to eat. Encouraging to live on junk food and diet drinks is a way to set people up to fail. Saddling people with guilt if they dared to eat before their stomach growled in a shitty thing to do. 
 

ETA: intermittent fasting focuses of nutrient dense foods. Gwen said it was perfectly fine to eat tiny bites of junk food only every 36 hours. There is no world in which that is healthy advice. Also Gwen’s “real” food was highly processed junk food that offered little nutritional value and that also goes against intuitive eating. She was very condescending about Whole Foods that are filling and high in nutrients. For her it was all about hunger. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by formergothardite

[Bob]

6 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

I have family in RF. They have been in for a number of years. The best way I can describe it is that my family members aren’t the same as they used to be. It’s like they are shells of their former selves. No real conversations about anything. It’s only platitudes and Gwen quotes. And “praise GAWD”  I’m in touch with them on a weekly sometimes daily basis but it’s not really them.  I really miss them even though I’m “talking” with them regularly. And I know that at any moment if I say the wrong thing I will be completely cut out.  I have seen several people be disowned for discussions that were deemed disrespectful even though they really weren’t.  The message is clear:   Disagree  and you are OUT  

Aside from just missing my family members as their authentic selves, The theology that Gwen taught was less than stellar and it was all based on conditional love. If your do this God will bless you. If you get under the authority of Gwen and do what she says, God will bless you. If you lose weight God will bless you. That means they never get to rest in His live and grace. They never quite make it to the point where they are accepted because there is always more that they could be doing to get closer to God  they are only one mistake always from Him not blessing them anymore 

RE your question about food: One of my family members has a serious eating disorder. They think if they can’t control their eating then they better control my their weight by doing whatever is needed even if that means purging. Another family member is seriously malnourished. They cant run and play with the kids without being winded. They are not alone. I’ve spent a lot of time with RF folks and eating disorders are common. They say they don’t have food rules. But they have one big one. Lose weight and keep it off or it’s proof that you are not worthy. 

I hope that helps clarify things. 
 

 

I had a similar experience in our family when I was young. I had an aunt who joined What I would call a charismatic church and become a devout Christian. Most of our family really had no church background at the time. I remember my mom literally saying almost Word for Word what you described with your family. Feeling like her sister-in-law and brother had become shells of themselves when they became Christians because their behavior changed so dramatically. Obviously the theology of the Trinity and once saved always saved is different between what Gwen taught and main stream Christianity teaches. Makes me wonder if different beliefs are causing you to feel the same thing my family felt when my aunt joined the church they joined. 
several years later as the rest of my family got more involved in churches and they set differences of theology adide. Baptist versus charismatic etc. the unity of the family came back. Looking back on it I know my mom realizes she was the one who pulled away and alienated them not vice versa. Had she not been so weirded out by their changed lives there would’ve been no disruption in the relationship.

 

On the Eating disorder comment. I guess I just have not run into those people. I have met several who had eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia Who after taking weighdown actually learned how to eat more food. Following the principal that you’re actually supposed to eat when you’re hungry. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

It sounds like you are a member of RF, Bob, and making excuses for their behavior. 

[formergothardite]

6 minutes ago, Bob said:

Following the principal that you’re actually supposed to eat when you’re hungry. 

Except that isn’t her teachings. Her current teachings are to wait for The Growl. She doesn’t take into consideration that some people get extremely hungry way, way before their stomach growls and some don’t get stomach growls often. For those poor souls, they have to be content with junk food every 36 hours. It isn’t about hunger alone, it is about The Growl. 

[Bob]

18 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

Some stay some do not. Those who stay know that if they don’t stay they will have no relationship with the rest of their family. 

I wish this were true. But it is not. I am all for intuitive eating. I am not for making sure that you stay thin at all costs by licking a potato chip. (Yes that was advice of hers). What is damaging is the control and manipulation. That’s what makes it so terrible. 

I guess I have run into different families. I know two specific families who have had children who did leave as young adults that have great relationships with their kids who are not in Remnant. Something I’ll check out more though. 
 

 

i’ve seen the licking the potato chip thing and I looked at it as more of a  lighthearted joking thing. I’ve seen them joke around about cutting a Tic Tac in half etc.  I guess I’ve just focused on the more serious teaching I learned by reading the book and going through the class. Again if I would sum up everything I got out of it, it comes down to eat when you’re hungry which Gwen does define as a growl and stop when your full. That’s why I related it to intuitive eating. To me it’s almost like those who teach intuitive eating have finally come around to what Gwen has been teaching. 

[SayonaraLara]

51 minutes ago, Bob said:

I’ve actually met a few ex pastors who have joined remnant. It’s been interesting to me. They say they left main stream church because of the results they saw in remnant vs their churches or the church denomination they belonged to. I know the churches I’ve been around most of the youth leave the church when the grow up. An Unfortunate outcome of whatever is happening in mainstream churches. Seems like most of the youth in Remnant stay after they become Adults. 

Bob, they stay because what choice do they have?

They are isolated from much of the real world, brought up to stay under authority (and take whatever career path they’re told and enter into semi-arranged relationships) and married off very young into other Remnant families. The church is all they know. They stay because Remnant has consumed their lives, and because they’ll be disowned, losing their family and their friends if they leave The One True Church.

Curious, Bob, because you seem to be a big Remnant fan/defender: Why haven’t you joined?

Edited August 24, 2021 by SayonaraLara

[formergothardite]

Again intuitive eating focuses on healthy foods. Gwen focuses on junk food with zero nutritional value, high calorie junk food that will quickly leave you hungry and craving more. No, intuitive eating has not caught up with Gwen because it is an entirely different thing.

And no, she was not joking about licking chips. If you read back through the threads you will find an interview where it is clear she was dead serious with that advice. 

[RFfamANON]

I’m curious @Bob why aren’t you a member?  Or are you?

22 minutes ago, Bob said:

52 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

 I know two specific families who have had children who did leave as young adults that have great relationships with their kids who are not in Remnant. Something I’ll check out more though. 
 

I can name 50 who have been literally burnt out of the list… never spoken of or to again. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by RFfamANON

[formergothardite]

Is this some sort of RF practice run preparing for the documentary to see if they can spin Gwen’s teachings as intuitive eating? 

[Xan]

I thought when Gwen died that it would be an excellent opportunity for the Remnant Fellowship people to step back and think that maybe it wasn't the best idea to follow a "God can't love you if you're fat" religion.  It seemed to be a cult of personality anyway.  Without Gwen patterning anorexia and making up ditzy sermons, there should have been some moments of clarity for a least part of the congregation.

I suppose there's just too many investments and too much business that's tied up in RF.  If they're already crawling the web looking for ways to counteract bad publicity and disbelievers, someone is in it for the long haul.  I don't think this is about religion.  It's about greed.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Xan

[ManyGoats]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

As I said I also read her book and went through the class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting.

That's the public face that's put on it. But when you talk to people who have left the church, you hear a different story about the immense pressure that's put on them to lose weight and the extreme measures that are recommended to achieve that.

Edited August 24, 2021 by ManyGoats

[ManyGoats]

36 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Is this some sort of RF practice run preparing for the documentary to see if they can spin Gwen’s teachings as intuitive eating? 

If so, this is the completely wrong audience!! 😅

[throwaway9988]

5 hours ago, TDHuggies said:

"If you like documentaries about self-proclaimed wellness gurus, sketchy religious groups and women with gravity-defying hair, then mark your calendars for Sept. 30, when the first three episodes of “The Way Down” premiere on HBO Max...Two additional episodes, which will explore the crash and its aftermath, will be released next year..."

So looks like the first three episodes will be ours to watch September 30!

Ugh this means I can't sign up for one free trial and watch the whole thing.  I guess next year I'll have to pay for a week and then immediately cancel the subscription.

 

On the other hand, two premiere dates might even translate into two separate weeks of being featured on the HBO Max homepage...

 

Is anyone else annoyed by the proliferation of streaming services?  It used to be that you could stop paying the cable/satellite company and subscribe to Netflix and Amazon prime and you'd have access to almost everything you might want to watch.  Now every media company has their own streaming service competing for exclusive rights to various movies and shows at any given time.  So one month Peacock has exclusive rights to a movie and every other service has to make that movie unavailable, and then the next month Paramount+ has exclusive rights to the movie and Peacock has to remove it, and so forth.  So now if a random movie pops into your mind and you want to watch it, you either have to sign up with some new streaming service or wait 10-11 months until that movie finally returns to the service you already pay for.  Yes, I am an 85-year-old geezer angrily shaking his fist in the air.

Edited August 25, 2021 by throwaway9988

[Blue]

3 hours ago, Bob said:

Sorry if I bounce around. I’m going to be asking questions about comments that don’t seem to add up as I read them.
 

One of the major accusations I’ve read on many post is that when family or friends join remnant they abandon friends and family. I picked this quote to ask the question but I’ve read other people on here stating they also have friends in remnant. I’m confused by these two positions. Do they have friends outside the church or do they turn away from you if your not in the church?

From my understanding from what I’ve seen they make it clear that they are not legalistic about the dates. It’s the symbolism of honoring Gods festivals. Do you think they actually believe they have a new superior calendar?

If you go through the threads (and I know, there are A LOT of them) you'll find where former members explained being told that yes, Gwen's calendar IS superior and the traditional Jewish dates are inaccurate. 

[freefromthin]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

I have read most of the posts that are put in this forum. As I said I also read her book and went through the class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting. Curious of people’s thoughts of those teachings. 

I have also taken just about ALL of the classes that Gwen offered. I couldn't quite get into Weigh Down Advanced, though. It was obvious to me that she created that to pull people out of their current churches.

A HUGE difference between Weigh Down (WD) and intuitive eating (IE) is that IE is not tied to religion. People are not told that they are in sin if they "eat one bite past full" or that learning to deny themselves food will be their "salvation". Simply put, there's no need for guilt on condemnation with IE. Sure, some people may turn it into a hunger and fullness diet, but that's not the intention of IE. With IE, people are not told to "wait for the growl", nor are they told to make the growl their sole focus. There are MANY You Can Overcome Shows on YouTube that will back up what I am saying. If you are here to SINCERELY see if there is any error in what she taught, I suggest you watch some of them. Her advice has gone WAY beyond the "eat when you're hungry stop when you're full" that she tried to hide behind. She has talked about bypassing hunger to "wait" to eat and just drinking a diet soda. Sure, there were times when she would say that bypassing hunger was WRONG, but then she'd turn around and say that it was OK to bypass hunger in a effort to wait for a lunch or dinner that might be HOURS away. She has encouraged people to eat off of demitasse saucers. She has suggested pushing food around on the plate while other people are actually eating. She has suggested making food and then giving it away in an effort to prove that one can cook without eating outside of the growl. I have personally been in classes where people boasted about waiting for a loud growl. I have waited for the growl to the point of being lightheaded, all in an effort to lose weight "God's way". I DID lose weight, too, but it came at a cost. The cost was my health.

Lastly (though I could certainly go on and on) Gwen states that she has found THE WAY to PERMANENT weight loss, yet MANY PEOPLE have regained. Even people that she has paraded about on national TV shows have regained a LOT of weight. However, her program has a built-in failsafe...if you cannot lose weight, then you haven't "transferred a relationship with the food over to a relationship with God". What a way to shift the blame and cause lasting emotional, psychological, and spiritual damage to an individual when they realize that they can't subsist on tiny amounts of high calorie foods.

[Blue]

2 hours ago, Bob said:

I have read most of the posts that are put in this forum. As I said I also read her book and went through the class. It’s very similar to intuitive eating or even as Gwen would probably say, a more spirit lead version of intermittent fasting. Curious of people’s thoughts of those teachings. 

I've also read many of her books, done some of her Bible studies, and have family and friends in - it is NOT intermittent fasting.

Yes, eating when hungry and stopping when full is common sense. Eating only when your stomach audibly growls, and then only eating a few bites, is not healthy. I have a course relative who gets lightheaded doing a short walk around the block - probably because she eats no more than a few bites a few times a day. 

Also - while many may disagree, I don't think anyone will convince me that tying the amount of food you eat and the number of pounds you weigh to your salvation and relationship with God is anything other than spiritual abuse. It's devastating and disgusting.

[WeirdHarold]

3 hours ago, Bob said:

I’m confused on the food rules statement. Everything I’ve seen from weighdown teaches against the food rules of all the diets out there. Matter of fact it teaches eat anything you want. Just don’t eat until you’re hungry and stop when your full. Am I missing something?

I haven't done weigh down, but that's my understanding too.