Alyssa and John 7: Laura Ingalls, Something, Something...

[tanba]

3 hours ago, kmachete14 said:

Yeah, I don’t mean to be dismissive of all day morning sickness, obviously I experienced it. But some things are just symptoms of being pregnant. The anti nausea meds didn’t work for me (zofran) so I didn’t bother. When you’re pregnant you have hormones coursing through your body and extreme energy dedicated to growing a life. There are going to be some common effects that are just what happens! Obviously don’t suffer through something extreme and communicate honestly with your doctor, but there isn’t a “cure” for everything nor should there necessarily one. You don’t always need to add drugs to your system. Pregnancy is a hard job. And I still stand by all day morning sickness as being categorized as normal, while HG is something that results in extreme dehydration of mother, malnutrition of fetus, other life threatening side effects. 

But why accept all-day morning sickness as normal? We used to accept people dying from common bacterial infections as normal, and then we found out that antibiotics can actually help with that. We used to accept chemotherapy inducing nausea and vomiting as normal, but now we do everything to prevent nausea and vomiting in chemotherapy, despite those meds also having side effects. We used to accept child-hearth being super painful as normal, and now, you at least get the choice of PDA. 

[TheRadleyPorch]

I cannot with Alyssa's post about "normalizing" postpartum bodies/bellies when she was like, 3 or 4 DAYS postpartum. "Bouncing back" to your exact pre-pregnancy form after 72 hours is not a real expectation that women or even most of society has. The unrealistic expectation comes in at 3 months, 6 months, a year. There's nothing brave about showing that you still have a little bump a few days after delivering. Maybe I'll give her some credit if she shows that she still has some belly convexity a few months down the road, but this just transparently looks like a way to score points for being "real" without actually risking her superficial image in any way.

[kmachete14]

@tanba you could take Tylenol, unisom, and drink a cup of coffee every day you were pregnant and it would be ok. It’s already seen as normal.  But some people choose to see the rising levels of hcg as just good news their baby is healthy and tough it out instead of masking it. There’s a difference between masking symptoms and curing something. The cure for rising hcg levels is ... not being pregnant anymore. Even the epidural has its drawbacks. I used an epidural and as a result have lasting back pain because I couldn’t feel my contractions or how to push and thus strained my entire lower back and spine unnecessarily. it’s kind of like the birth control pill ... people used to accept that women couldn’t prevent pregnancy. Now they can, but there are consequences (look at side effects of BC). Look at prescription painkiller abuse, antibiotic overuse, etc. Sometimes drugs aren’t the answer. This doesn’t negate amazing medical advances, some of which you mentioned. To each their own. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

What exactly pisses you off? The ‘don’t take anything’ approach?- if so I am 100% with you.

Partly that, but mostly the male medical establishment’s total lack of interest in something that affects everyone when they’re a fetus and close to half the population when they’re adults.

[medimus]

As a doctor, there is a massive reason tests aren't done on pregnant women and that is Thalidomide. It caused an enormous amount of damage and pain. The risk of that happening again keeps most researchers away from pregnant women. With good reason.

Of course there is way too little research on things that affect women, way too little. And those should be studied more. It frustrated me no end that all I can't tell women ahead of time which of the many pills might suit them best or what their bleeding might be like on an implant or that I have very few other options for endometriosis than contraception or referring for surgery.

[tanba]

1 hour ago, medimus said:

As a doctor, there is a massive reason tests aren't done on pregnant women and that is Thalidomide. It caused an enormous amount of damage and pain. The risk of that happening again keeps most researchers away from pregnant women. With good reason.

Of course there is way too little research on things that affect women, way too little. And those should be studied more. It frustrated me no end that all I can't tell women ahead of time which of the many pills might suit them best or what their bleeding might be like on an implant or that I have very few other options for endometriosis than contraception or referring for surgery.

I understand that. My understanding, at least in Germany, though, was that Thalidomide was sold over the counter and actually never tested. I’m just not sure what the solution would be. Pregnant women also have health struggles, and not testing on them means when they need medication, they and their doctors are basically going in blind. 
 

So many medical studies basically say women’s cycles are difficult, so we don’t study women. Turns out, that’s one of the reasons for heart attacks not being diagnosed as well in women, and there’s medication that’s efficatious in men, but not women. I really liked the book “Invisible women” regarding this phenomenon, not only in medicine.

[medimus]

36 minutes ago, tanba said:

I understand that. My understanding, at least in Germany, though, was that Thalidomide was sold over the counter and actually never tested. I’m just not sure what the solution would be. Pregnant women also have health struggles, and not testing on them means when they need medication, they and their doctors are basically going in blind. 

Over the counter depended, I think, on country. And you are right they didn't test it, because up until then it was thought that nothing passed through the placenta to the foetus. Which turned out to be horribly wrong.

Most medication that is deemed safe in pregnancy is deemed safe through long observation. Sometimes giving medication even if you don't know all the possible effects is the right thing to do (dangerous infection needing antibiotics for example which leads to the long observation that amoxicillin is safe during pregnancy). I can't think of an ethical study design which you could do to randomise pregnant women for a rct with a new drug.

[freethemall]

23 hours ago, tanba said:

But why accept all-day morning sickness as normal? We used to accept people dying from common bacterial infections as normal, and then we found out that antibiotics can actually help with that. We used to accept chemotherapy inducing nausea and vomiting as normal, but now we do everything to prevent nausea and vomiting in chemotherapy, despite those meds also having side effects. We used to accept child-hearth being super painful as normal, and now, you at least get the choice of PDA. 

Well I guess in a sense it IS normal - it's common and not a symptom of being sick, just a really uncomfortable condition that can cause other issues like dehydration. Medicines are prescribed as well as vitamin b6 and other ways to relieve it (ginger, small meals, with the understanding it doesnt have to be so miserable and tolerated as a "this is part of your lady troubles" mentality. Unfortunately though it's not as easy to fix as straight up pain with stuff like epidurals.

[Jackie3]

Alyssa's newborn photos show her in a pair of earrings that were "given to her by hear dear friend Tikki." Tikki the stalker apparently sends earrings as well as dresses.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Jackie3

[Mom to Nell]

2 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Alyssa's newborn photos show her in a pair of earrings that were "given to her by hear dear friend Tikki." Tikki the stalker apparently sends earrings as well as dresses.

This will never not be so horrifyingly creepy to me. I can't believe someone in her world doesn't see the danger in accepting so many gifts from a random social media stalker. I know her own family are used to grifting stuff, but you would think John or his family would put a hard stop to this. Maybe she's actually met this person, but people on the internet make up names and personas all the time, do we even know if this is a woman?

[Melissa1977]

8 hours ago, tanba said:

I really liked the book “Invisible women” regarding this phenomenon, not only in medicine

If you are interested in that issue, there is a Catalan doctor called Carme Valls, who writes about it. I think many interviews with her can be translated online, in case you google it.

One of her main points is that women are often offered antidepressants, like if our problems were mosly emotional. Not only it is a huge problem, but also antidepressants have been tested based in men features (weight, hormones etc) so they are not designed for women. 

In short, we are supposed to live in an equal society, but there is still a looong way to erase sexism.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, Mom to Nell said:

This will never not be so horrifyingly creepy to me. I can't believe someone in her world doesn't see the danger in accepting so many gifts from a random social media stalker. I know her own family are used to grifting stuff, but you would think John or his family would put a hard stop to this. Maybe she's actually met this person, but people on the internet make up names and personas all the time, do we even know if this is a woman?

We don't anything about Tiki except she is a friend of Alyssa's, who gives her things. My guess is Tiki is not a real name. 

As for Tiki being a social media stalker, Alyssa is a celebrity grifter.  Tiki could be a creep, but Tiki could also be nice person being played by grifter Alyssa. I hope Tiki is at least a fan of Alyssa's entire family, IBLP, and her father-in-law, so I don't have to feel bad for Tiki.  

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[GreenBeans]

On 2/22/2021 at 11:20 PM, tanba said:

But why accept all-day morning sickness as normal? We used to accept people dying from common bacterial infections as normal, and then we found out that antibiotics can actually help with that. We used to accept chemotherapy inducing nausea and vomiting as normal, but now we do everything to prevent nausea and vomiting in chemotherapy, despite those meds also having side effects. We used to accept child-hearth being super painful as normal, and now, you at least get the choice of PDA. 

It’s not just a matter of “accepting” it. If you have a job where you are required to perform on a high level, it just doesn’t work. I’m a lawyer in a big firm, and I had awful nausea during a huge part of my pregnancy, and there were days when I simply wasn’t able to function. I did try to just power through on most days, but I was miserable and it was hard to concentrate when I was feeling so so so sick constantly. Some medication did help somewhat, and I don’t know what I would have done without it.

“Accepting it” for me would have meant not being able to work for most of my pregnancy. This kind of argument plays into the whole “well, that just shows God doesn’t want women to work” narrative.

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

If you are interested in that issue, there is a Catalan doctor called Carme Valls, who writes about it. I think many interviews with her can be translated online, in case you google it.

One of her main points is that women are often offered antidepressants, like if our problems were mosly emotional. Not only it is a huge problem, but also antidepressants have been tested based in men features (weight, hormones etc) so they are not designed for women. 

In short, we are supposed to live in an equal society, but there is still a looong way to erase sexism.

Studies have shown that women are prescribed AD more often than men, and that they do better on them. There are many, many studies about AD and women. "Not designed for women"? They've helped thousands of women for decades.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:53 PM, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Partly that, but mostly the male medical establishment’s total lack of interest in something that affects everyone when they’re a fetus and close to half the population when they’re adults.

As a currently pregnant person, I am pretty happy with the medical establishment here in Ontario. I'm sure there's more to learn but I'd say my care hasn't suffered because there are large, unstudied gaps. I think the field has expanded since ultrasounds became common. I had a subchorionic hematoma and my doctor did say, "we're not really sure how common these are" because you often have no symptoms but see them on an ultrasound.

I had mild nausea that wasn't worth taking anything for, but my friend who puked 6 times a day while pregnant (poor her!!) of course got some drugs.

It's amazing to me that some fundies have no prenatal care as I have had quite a bit and it all felt pretty important to have done. I get it's not free where they are but still!!

 

[tanba]

56 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Studies have shown that women are prescribed AD more often than men, and that they do better on them. There are many, many studies about AD and women. "Not designed for women"? They've helped thousands of women for decades.

Those statements are not mutually exclusive. Women are often prescribed anti-depressants for all sorts of organic illnesses, because the medical establishment does not take us seriously (gross generalization of course). Stuff like auto-immune disorders are often diagnosed very late, if at all, and they’re more common in women. 
Most ADs were actually only tested in men (like most medication). However, they have actually helped many women, but if the source of your issues is an organic one, they often do not help or rarely help. 
Im currently in the process of getting diagnosed with ADHD, an illness that often presents differently in women, and can have comorbidities/ or even present like depression. Anti-depressants are often given to women with undiagnosed ADHD, and don’t help them (enough).

[mstee]

Does that Tiki lady regularly send gifts to other Bates (that we know of)? It is quite odd how much she sends her. 

[Italiangirl]

I think Tikki gifted something to Carlin too? But she seems to gift almost exclusively Alyssa and fam

[HereticHick]

14 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

We don't anything about Tiki except she is a friend of Alyssa's, who gives her things. My guess is Tiki is not a real name. 

 

Her first name is Pantila, according to her Private instagram https://www.instagram.com/tikky_pantilavillarreal/ I believe she lives in Miami Beach.

And holy sweet Rufus, I think she has a child named Avatar: https://www.youtube.com/user/Pantilanana/videos?view=0

 

[Melissa1977]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

Studies have shown that women are prescribed AD more often than men, and that they do better on them. There are many, many studies about AD and women. "Not designed for women"? They've helped thousands of women for decades.

There are studies about how AD works with women who take it. But AD (and other drugs) were initially designed and tested on men, based on their needs and body. They weight more, have different bone issues, different hormones etc. If work on women, great, but if the lab would have considered women's health, the drugs would have less side effects on them.

there are studies that show how doctors are racist (and diagnose differently depending on the skin colour), and there is also research on how healthcare is sexist. 

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Her first name is Pantila, according to her Private instagram https://www.instagram.com/tikky_pantilavillarreal/ I believe she lives in Miami Beach.

And holy sweet Rufus, I think she has a child named Avatar: https://www.youtube.com/user/Pantilanana/videos?view=0

 

It’s odd and I don’t understand the dynamics behind the clothes presents. Why does Pantila send Alyssa gifts on such a regular basis? Does she want to feel connected to someone “famous”? Does she feel attracted to the wholesome family image the Bates have? Does she actually know Alyssa somehow? 

I only hope she has the financial means to do so without having to spend less money on her son (I checked and he really seems to be called Avatar ?) and herself. 

[Dominionatrix]

Erin once posted a pic (I think on Instagram stories) of Tiki on her own home. You couldn’t really see what she looked like, but she was tagged and I believe the caption says she was visiting. So they do know her. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

5 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Her first name is Pantila, according to her Private instagram https://www.instagram.com/tikky_pantilavillarreal/ I believe she lives in Miami Beach.

And holy sweet Rufus, I think she has a child named Avatar: https://www.youtube.com/user/Pantilanana/videos?view=0

 

Maybe Avatar is web name. Some people's kids have a real name that they use in person and a webname they use on-line for privacy. 

[FluffySnowball]

19 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Maybe Avatar is web name. Some people's kids have a real name that they use in person and a webname they use on-line for privacy. 

I’d say you might very well be right, but Pantila seems quite odd (judging from the frequent gift-giving) that I’m afraid the kid’s name really is Avatar. 

[Dominionatrix]

Alyssa is rude as hell for this/ proof that her “normalize postpartum bodies” post was full of it: