Bontragers/Bowers 5: It Is Really not Okay to Date Your Brother

[Giraffe]

Or she’ll end up like Bethany and suddenly decide she needs privacy when her picture perfect facade crumbles.  
 

These people (the fundies I snark on in general) have built their brands on the illusion of #blessed being the result of following the right Jesus formula. When it turns out differently, instead of being open and genuine and offering real encouragement to people who are also struggling, they disappear only to occasionally reappear with their “always happy for Jesus” veneer safely back in place.

They have just as much right to privacy as the rest of us and yet instead of being honest and saying they’re taking a break to reevaluate their life and their channel/branding, they start claiming “privacy” in certain areas while never admitting their formula didn’t lead to the desired results. 

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, SolomonFundy said:

Huh. That little epistle doesn't so much sound smug, as it sounds like a passive-aggressive request for an apology from a certain "not perfect gentleman". 

I agree.

(speculation). Maybe it's me, but I got the feeling that Alison really wanted Mr. Bigfundie and she's getting the first Mr. FundieAverage that has seriously approached her. She was always talking about class, dressing well and wearing nice hairdos, but the minute she knew him she started dressing in a very different style and wearing untidy hair. I think she is sacrifying her style, to fit his family. But will she like the change, once the excitation for the wedding is over?

Her posts sound like she was a survivor of the terrible danger of singleness and was marrying no matter who, as long as he's religious. Not a word about his personality, his hobbies or job or what do they have in common. Just *godly* premade sentences. 

Obviously, the Bontrager-Bowers weddings (or at least, Joshua wedding) was arranged and it's not inusual in fundieland. It wouldn't surprise me if Bons were sooooo fed up with Alison's singleness depression and found a husband for her.

Again, it's speculation. I hope I'm wrong.

[Smash!]

[mention]Giraffe [/mention] What happened to Bethanys (Beasley I suppose) blog?

[ElizaB]

I think Allison's smugness shows how incredibly unfulfilled she is. She is a smart ambitious girl who should have gone to college. She has a lot of drive and nothing she was allowed to work towards except getting a husband. Now she has that and she is getting a fake sense of fulfillment. In a few years she going to realize that this didn't quite satisfy her desire and that deep done she really wanted something more than she was allowed to reach for. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think it’s pretty likely there was another guy (or maybe two!) that came before perfect Jeremiah. My nosey side wants to know who. 

[browngrl]

8 hours ago, Smash! said:

[mention]Giraffe [/mention] What happened to Bethanys (Beasley I suppose) blog?

Bethany does not blog much (?at all) any more but she is active on instagram (today she posted how Plexus stopped her nephew from stuttering ?!? -so you haven't missed much LOL). I'm not on facebook so I don't know if she is still active there or not.

[Caroline]

Why can't people like Allison just let their lives happen organically based on their own personalities and interests?  Oh, I know:  It's because women aren't allowed to have their own personalities or interests in her world. Pathetic and a waste of all the talents they were born with and may never use.  I agree that Allison would have derived a lot of satisfaction and practical skill by getting a college degree in business or whatever else she is interested in.  So many of the things I wanted in my life occurred because I followed my own heart and talents.  I tell my own daughter that the person she meets some day with whom she wants to spend her life she will probably meet doing what she truly loves and values.  But then again my daughter doesn't have parents who are steering her in the direction of one kind of person only.  Godly - sounds horrible and boring to me.  

[deborahlynn1979]

I love how John approached Chesly because she “didn’t have a lot of options.” I wonder if Allison has a similarly romantic story?

[ophelia]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think it’s pretty likely there was another guy (or maybe two!) that came before perfect Jeremiah. My nosey side wants to know who. 

I'm nosey as well and would LOVE to know who was the other guy that approached her.

Didn't Chelsy also have a "relationship" that went south before she met John?

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, ophelia said:

I'm nosey as well and would LOVE to know who was the other guy that approached her.

Didn't Chelsy also have a "relationship" that went south before she met John?

Yes. Chelsy said so. But she didn’t seem as bitter as Allison. 

[fundiefan]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think it’s pretty likely there was another guy (or maybe two!) that came before perfect Jeremiah. My nosey side wants to know who. 

We'll never know. Chelsy said she had just broken up with someone when she met John, but it was left at that. There was someone for her but it's buried. I agree with you & think Allison had a false start or two, but it will never be discussed. 

[Jigsaw3]

I'm very curious as to who the unsuccessful suitors were, but I'm actually quite glad that we don't know. Failed relationships are upsetting and sometimes embarrassing for both fundies and non-fundies. I rarely have anything good to say about Marlin and Becky, but credit where credit is due: it's good that they let their children meet and break up with men before committing to one. The girls not letting any information get out beyond their families until an engagement is smart, given their quasi-public profiles.

[fundiefan]

i was reading about the Bontragers and realized, to my shock, that I am the same age as Marlin & Becky. They were born a few months before & a few months after me. 

I know life is life and everyone's lives are not the same & experiences shape us & all that. But holy crap. I cannot fathom even the slightest bit of having their lives. 

When I was making my way as a young adult, doing a lot of exploring & trial & error in life, they were getting married & making babies. When I started "settling down" & working a regular full time job & getting an apartment without roommates, they were making babies. When I got married & bought a house & went back to college, they were making babies. When I turned 40, I had a party with all of my friends & family at an outdoor music festival with lots of adult beverages & dancing & yelling to talk above music, they were making babies. When I got divorced, they had toddlers & teenagers.

I am just so stunned that these fundie parents are my peers. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

24 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

i was reading about the Bontragers and realized, to my shock, that I am the same age as Marlin & Becky. They were born a few months before & a few months after me. 

I know life is life and everyone's lives are not the same & experiences shape us & all that. But holy crap. I cannot fathom even the slightest bit of having their lives. 

When I was making my way as a young adult, doing a lot of exploring & trial & error in life, they were getting married & making babies. When I started "settling down" & working a regular full time job & getting an apartment without roommates, they were making babies. When I got married & bought a house & went back to college, they were making babies. When I turned 40, I had a party with all of my friends & family at an outdoor music festival with lots of adult beverages & dancing & yelling to talk above music, they were making babies. When I got divorced, they had toddlers & teenagers.

I am just so stunned that these fundie parents are my peers. 

 

Sarah Maxwell and Braggie were both born in 82 like me. I can’t imagine being either of them. One completely stunted by their parents and still sleeping in the same room as her younger sisters. And the other with soon to be 10 kids and a life she seems to hate 90% of the time. 

[HereticHick]

Fundy maidens & Godly Young Men always proclaim that they are marrying their BEST FRIENDS 4EVER and Allison is no exception,

When does your significant fundy other become your VERY BESTEST FRIEND?? (replacing your siblings of course!)

Upon engagement?  Do you become BFFs before you fall in love? Or is done concurrently? Can you become BFFs before you get engaged??

So many questions.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

@HereticHick it's how you know you've found The One and aren't settling.  Like BFFs at first sight.

[JermajestyDuggar]

My husband and I are definitely friends. But I don’t call him my best friend. I have a best friend already. I knew my best friend long before I met my husband. Am I suddenly supposed to replace my best friend of years because I got married? That’s weird. I thought Allison’s best friend was Chelsy. I guess Chelsy dropped her when she got married to her best friend, John.

[HereticHick]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My husband and I are definitely friends. But I don’t call him my best friend. I have a best friend already. I knew my best friend long before I met my husband. Am I suddenly supposed to replace my best friend of years because I got married? That’s weird. I thought Allison’s best friend was Chelsy. I guess Chelsy dropped her when she got married to her best friend, John.

It does feel like heart pieces are being given away, doesn't it? Or squashed? Or bruised at least.

[Lgirlrocks]

3 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Fundy maidens & Godly Young Men always proclaim that they are marrying their BEST FRIENDS 4EVER and Allison is no exception,

When does your significant fundy other become your VERY BESTEST FRIEND?? (replacing your siblings of course!)

Upon engagement?  Do you become BFFs before you fall in love? Or is done concurrently? Can you become BFFs before you get engaged??

So many questions.

My ex was my best friend. We were friends before we dated. He had been close friends with my older brother for years. He didn’t start out as my best friend l, that took a few years. Sadly he dumped me so we are no longer best friends. 

my mom will tell you my dad was her best friend. They grew very close very quickly. Best friend status doesn’t happen like that. 

[fundiefan]

The entire SAHD "model" is designed to do exactly what it supposedly exists to prevent. 

A girl gives her heart to her father, who she serves in the absence of a husband. She's taught to worship him. 

Girls are taught to worship their penis bearing siblings, to the point of being Allison and having "dates" with them and never daring to damage their prescious manhood. Siblings are taught & forced to be "best friends" with their siblings, mostly because there isn't much choice when outside interaction is limited. Pieces of her heart are spread all over her family, and not necessarily because it's what she's chosen.

Some, like Allison, form actual friendships with actual people outside the family. These friends are "dear" and "sweet" and "a blessing", but none is ever a best friend. They are all time fillers & bridesmaid materail. Bonds may be formed, and hearts can break from ending / drifting friendships. There is research suggesting the end of friendship is harder than the end of a romantic relationship. 

Then, girl meets boy. They have a closely guarded friendship stage. Then, with obscene levels of parental involvement, they "court" - get to know each other WITH THE INTENTION OF MARRIAGE! They don't get to know if they're compatible with each other; they don't get to know how they interact with each other; they don't get to know how he/she reacts to anger/pain/frustration/disappointment. They don't even know if they like the feel of his/her lips on theirs. 

For some, that courtship leads to the ultimate goal of marriage and the girl immediately has to drop her father & brothers as the best. men. to. walk. the. planet and transfer all those emotions to a man she barely knows. A man who is now her best friend, so all those other friends - adios. Not so important anymore. At least not after the wedding & 100 of them have been bridesmaids at your wedding. So, more emotions are transferred. Every piece of your soul you've given to all the place-holders must now be torn away and handed over to this new man. It's ok though, those pieces of your soul (and heart) were never yours to begin with-you were raised to pour yourself into others and to worship your dad & brothers. You shouldn't be too attached to them. 

For others, the courship ends without marriage and now - now you have planned to marry this person you barely know and he/she is gone. You gave everything you had/took from your siblings & father and gave it all to him and he is no longer there. Your entire life is now off the track because this was what you were livng for and now...now...nothing. 

It all makes my head spin.

Normal, healthy relationships (Ideally, I know few are actually ideal, but it is what most healthy people strive for) - with family, with friends, with romantic partners, are ones where people learn about each other, get to know each other - yes, evern our parents & siblings. Where bonds of affection form naturally based on the mutual relationship. Sometimes, we learn that what we thought was not true, or has changed, and we end a relationship. We are hurt, we even cry and feel loss, but it's often for the best. Eventually we heal. We learn about ourselves and our wants and needs and right and wrong. We meet new people-a new friend, a new romantic partner -and we do the dance again. Probably even end up hurt again on some level and for some reason. Eventually, all those lessons we've learned from those relationships make us who we are and when we meet the right person-again, friend or romance-we know it. We know that the term "we just clicked" is not just a turn of phrase. 

It makes me really freaking angry at the patriarchial fathers who claim they're protecting their daughters when all they're doing is completely screwing up their concept of love, romance, friendship and all relationships. Giving them a 'formula' no human being could ever follow completely. 

Sorry. Rant over. This, above all, is my biggest peeve with fundies & courting and all that purity BS. Human beings connect to other human beings, period, end of story. They are not chained to them for life because it was time or he gave the correct answer to 100 questions or because they looked at each other once & now have to marry to prevent impure temptation. 

It's all sick, if I'm honest. 

[Smash!]

@fundiefan So so much this. 

To add further to your post: If a boy and a girl get to know each other with the intent or marriage, it is expected to get married within a year of meeting each other. Don't you dare to really get to know your future spouse because this could lead to sinful temptation. And to be honest, the only thing that is important is that he has to believe in the right brand of Christianity and be best buddies with your dad. Approved! So you get married and know this is your partner for life without any possibility to get divorced. This is so fucked up. Then you have to worship him, have sex even tough you feel disgust at how he smells when he's aroused. Everything that goes wrong in your marriage is your fault. He treats you badly? You squashed his manhood or didn't worship him enough. 

[Tangy Bee]

14 hours ago, fundiefan said:

The entire SAHD "model" is designed to do exactly what it supposedly exists to prevent. 

A girl gives her heart to her father, who she serves in the absence of a husband. She's taught to worship him. 

Girls are taught to worship their penis bearing siblings, to the point of being Allison and having "dates" with them and never daring to damage their prescious manhood. Siblings are taught & forced to be "best friends" with their siblings, mostly because there isn't much choice when outside interaction is limited. Pieces of her heart are spread all over her family, and not necessarily because it's what she's chosen.

Some, like Allison, form actual friendships with actual people outside the family. These friends are "dear" and "sweet" and "a blessing", but none is ever a best friend. They are all time fillers & bridesmaid materail. Bonds may be formed, and hearts can break from ending / drifting friendships. There is research suggesting the end of friendship is harder than the end of a romantic relationship. 

Then, girl meets boy. They have a closely guarded friendship stage. Then, with obscene levels of parental involvement, they "court" - get to know each other WITH THE INTENTION OF MARRIAGE! They don't get to know if they're compatible with each other; they don't get to know how they interact with each other; they don't get to know how he/she reacts to anger/pain/frustration/disappointment. They don't even know if they like the feel of his/her lips on theirs. 

For some, that courtship leads to the ultimate goal of marriage and the girl immediately has to drop her father & brothers as the best. men. to. walk. the. planet and transfer all those emotions to a man she barely knows. A man who is now her best friend, so all those other friends - adios. Not so important anymore. At least not after the wedding & 100 of them have been bridesmaids at your wedding. So, more emotions are transferred. Every piece of your soul you've given to all the place-holders must now be torn away and handed over to this new man. It's ok though, those pieces of your soul (and heart) were never yours to begin with-you were raised to pour yourself into others and to worship your dad & brothers. You shouldn't be too attached to them. 

For others, the courship ends without marriage and now - now you have planned to marry this person you barely know and he/she is gone. You gave everything you had/took from your siblings & father and gave it all to him and he is no longer there. Your entire life is now off the track because this was what you were livng for and now...now...nothing. 

It all makes my head spin.

Normal, healthy relationships (Ideally, I know few are actually ideal, but it is what most healthy people strive for) - with family, with friends, with romantic partners, are ones where people learn about each other, get to know each other - yes, evern our parents & siblings. Where bonds of affection form naturally based on the mutual relationship. Sometimes, we learn that what we thought was not true, or has changed, and we end a relationship. We are hurt, we even cry and feel loss, but it's often for the best. Eventually we heal. We learn about ourselves and our wants and needs and right and wrong. We meet new people-a new friend, a new romantic partner -and we do the dance again. Probably even end up hurt again on some level and for some reason. Eventually, all those lessons we've learned from those relationships make us who we are and when we meet the right person-again, friend or romance-we know it. We know that the term "we just clicked" is not just a turn of phrase. 

It makes me really freaking angry at the patriarchial fathers who claim they're protecting their daughters when all they're doing is completely screwing up their concept of love, romance, friendship and all relationships. Giving them a 'formula' no human being could ever follow completely. 

Sorry. Rant over. This, above all, is my biggest peeve with fundies & courting and all that purity BS. Human beings connect to other human beings, period, end of story. They are not chained to them for life because it was time or he gave the correct answer to 100 questions or because they looked at each other once & now have to marry to prevent impure temptation. 

It's all sick, if I'm honest. 

Not a rant, but good research info?Somebody needs to do a thesis on these people.

[Lgirlrocks]

This was on alisons latest blog post about waiting for the right man. 
I'm surprised she posted it. While I don’t think she meant to be rude she was very rude. I would never comment on someone’s style OT hair unless they personally asked me. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, Lgirlrocks said:

This was on alisons latest blog post about waiting for the right man. 
I'm surprised she posted it. While I don’t think she meant to be rude she was very rude. I would never comment on someone’s style OT hair unless they personally asked me. 

It was rude and I wouldn’t have posted that inher comments. However I will say that it’s a great example of why modest fashion is bullshit. It’s all opinions and many seem to disagree on what is modest/classy/feminine.

[Jigsaw3]

Ladies... you've got to wait til you've got yourself a REAL man, like Allison. Then you can conduct your relationship passive-aggressively through public posts on Instagram and your blog.

Quote

Girls, I know you’ve heard it a hundred times, but PLEASE DON’T SETTLE. I am not talking about a perfect man, but one that is good, Godly, and a true gentleman. He will make mistakes, but when he does, he will have the character to admit he’s wrong. A good man will fail, but try again.

(bolding mine.)

Why is she repeating what she put on Instagram on her blog? And does she really think this is an adult way of conducting a relationship? This is not how to communicate in a functional partnership, and will lead to huge problems down the road.

And following up my post last week about how Marlin and Becky's inflexible touring schedule prevented Allison from supporting Chelsey at Axton's birth or meeting her nephew right away: looks like I was probably right. Allison has posted on her Instagram about missing Axton and being impatient to meet Elliot. I do feel bad for her on this one.