Gwen Shamblin Lara 12: Gwen says something I can't understand.

[AmazonGrace]

Spoiler

Dear Seekers,
I am praying for all of you, and I know many of you are hurting right now. You are all very much on my heart! I am thankful for this chance to grow closer together and closer to God by the end of this quarantine! We are NOT gaining the “quarantine-15”! No, we are going to be losing weight and laying down anything that stands in the way of our relationship with God! This is exciting!

Let’s all commit to having 20 days of Spirit days! These are days when you do not go after your own ways - it is NOT a day where you are following God in the morning but then indulging yourself at night. We are not going back to that life! This is an hour-by-hour walk with God! And it is going to be a fun 20 days! Let’s do it!

If you haven’t seen our Life with Gwen and Joe that just came out explaining more about this 20-day walk, please watch it here!

Never mind that people are dying right and left: if you didn't eat it's the best day ever!

Forget God, follow only the growl.

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Day 3! Sometimes people have a harder time on the third day so really commit to making it thru the day victorious! Please feel free to post on the Weigh Down Facebook Group if you need help or encouragement! We are all in this together! I guarantee you that going to bed with victory in your heart will make for the happiest day ever! Keep going!

 

Day 3: Start right now with a prayer and a decision to find the growl. Follow only the growl today!

Don't eat in the evening:
 

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Day 4: We all need to spend more time in prayer and planning so we can be prepared for all tests.

Pray now and think about what is wrong with your evening. What does God want. Give your evening eating back over to God!

Make some notes, get a battle plan. Share some of your convictions and ideas here! Let’s all help each other to make it thru these testing evening hours for complete success for the sake of God! For some tips to help you with snacking and nighttime eating, please watch:

 

You will change the world if you don't eat:

Spoiler

Day 5: Wake up everyone who has not started with us and join us now. Together we are going to change...which will change the world!

 

Set hourly reminders not to eat:

Spoiler

Day 10: This is going to be the best week ever! Just keep it hour by hour – you CAN obey this hour! Set pop up reminders and do whatever it takes to pass your tests! Let’s go for it!

 

Gwen today: don't focus on the body. Gwen  yesterday: Listen to the body!!

More starving makes you more godly:

Spoiler

Day 11: Today get on your knees before your Maker and commit to an hour-by-hour Spirit walk. Less food is more Spirit! Listen to the body!!

Did you eat? Repent!

Spoiler

Day 12: Are you making progress? Repeat it again with a warning not to get too confident in self. Did you go backwards? Stop, repent and bow low before God today to do everything right. FOCUS!!

This has been your Pro Ana Newsletter, now printed on thinner paper.

[Blue]

58 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

So much non-Biblical teaching.  Like, she’s making stuff up left and right.  

Do pastors/theologians ever call her out?  Or is she so off in her own world; she’s not taken seriously* enough by non-Remnants to warrant criticism?  

*I’m not sure the grammar here.  “Is she not taken serious/seriously enough”

I think part of it is not being taken seriously. The other part is that her congregation doesn't care. At the end of the debate they fall back on "Well everyone is happy and smiling so we must be right." It's really insane.

[HereComesTreble]

“Less food is more spirit”

!?!?!?!?! Says who?  Says where?  The Book of Gwen?  

The cojones on her.  Sheesh.

Edited May 5, 2020 by HereComesTreble
Autocorrect doesn’t have cojones.

[RFsurvivor]

39 minutes ago, Blue said:

I think part of it is not being taken seriously. The other part is that her congregation doesn't care. At the end of the debate they fall back on "Well everyone is happy and smiling so we must be right." It's really insane.

Yes. They will say “look at the fruit! We clearly have the truth here! It’s undeniable!”

[formergothardite]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:42 AM, usedbicycle said:

An executive producer at Netflix should take one look at this photo and immediately film a docuseries.

A perfect combination of the stranger-than-fiction genre (Tiger King) with the popular cult/guru genre (Wild Wild Country, Bikram, Holy Hell...) Millions would watch and collectively say WTF?!

 

 

 

 

This needs to happen. Gwen's starved brain might not realize that inviting millions to have a close look at her church would go badly, but I bet Joe does. He seems to be well aware that Gwen is crazy. 

Can you imagine the world watching him crawl around like a dog chasing her, though?! That would be some quality trashy television right there. 

[AmazonGrace]

Joe Quixotic, the Dieter King.

[Blue]

1 hour ago, RFsurvivor said:

Yes. They will say “look at the fruit! We clearly have the truth here! It’s undeniable!”

It physically hurts because that is the exact phrase they use ?

Nevermind that plenty of atheists have nice houses and happy lives... It's devastating how they direct connect God's love with their material things.

[RFsurvivor]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

This needs to happen. Gwen's starved brain might not realize that inviting millions to have a close look at her church would go badly, but I bet Joe does. He seems to be well aware that Gwen is crazy. 

Can you imagine the world watching him crawl around like a dog chasing her, though?! That would be some quality trashy television right there. 

I am pretty sure Gwen has turned away people who have wanted to interview her and talk about the church in the past. This was talked about at some point while I was a member. I remember it being a very big deal when she went on the Tyra Banks so since it was the first interview she did in a while. 

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

It physically hurts because that is the exact phrase they use ?

Nevermind that plenty of atheists have nice houses and happy lives... It's devastating how they direct connect God's love with their material things.

Sometimes I wonder how they would explain away my life being happy. They would talk about people who left who were sad and addicted to drugs. People who were broke and helpless. They would claim anyone who has left but seems happy is hiding their sadness and that Satan has ahold of them. They will only have curses in their life. 
 

Newsflash to any members reading here: Yes there are people who leave and don’t do well for themselves. Those people were never taught how to function outside of a cult. It takes time to learn how to support yourself and to get past the emotional abuse of a high demand religion/cult. 
 

There are also people who leave and are much happier. We exist. They want you to think that I am eternally sad. This is not true. I am happier than any day I spent not being able to be myself in Remnant. I am happier without the oppressive God and oppressive leadership of Remnant breathing down my back. There is happiness after leaving. It might take a while, but it can happen. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@Hane  In high school I weighed 122 at 5'2" and wore an 11.

Do you remember the "5 , 7 and 9" shops that only carried those sizes?  I got down to 110 after a bout with the flu and still couldn't get into a size 9.  Couldn't zip up the dress all the way. Size 3 was the smallest size there was, although I heard a very few brands carried a size 1. There was no such thing as size 0, 00, 000, or 0000 as I've seen lately

Back in that pre-historic era there were Misses (6, 8, 10 ...) and Junior (5, 7, 9, .....) sizes. I never quite understood the difference, but I was always a junior size -- they went up to 15 I think (maybe 17).

Among my girl friends, the majority of them sizes 5 and 7 (one was a teeny tiny size 3), size 11 was considered huge.  So I thought I was huge.  Looking back at those old pictures I was thin -- not Gwen thin, but definitely really thin.

And no I'm not bitter either (grr arrggghhh) ☺️

[DaisyD]

Dress sizes are fucking dumb. They need to just go to the way men's clothes are sized. Measurements in inches. I can wear anything from a 6 to a 12 depending on the designer. That is stupid. 

[katilac]

11 hours ago, HereComesTreble said:

 

*I’m not sure the grammar here.  “Is she not taken serious/seriously enough”

Seriously, because it is modifying the verb "take." 

 

[AmazonGrace]

There are only three rules.

1. Don't eat

2. Don't diet

3. Don't eat.

Spoiler

 

The Temptation to Diet

May 06, 2020

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

It is tempting to diet because you instinctively know that SELF can control your day instead of God. It is tempting to diet, for instinctively you know that you still do not have to surrender to the internal guiding hand of God—SELF can rule. There are people who, after hearing the truth, return to self-rule because you can chew when you want, and with low calorie foods, you can chew even more. Man’s guidance perishes with use—it is not helpful; God’s rules and the man who lives by them live forever…

Diets do not and will not ever work, no matter how many times you try them. On top of that, the more you employ them as the remedy for your overeating, the more you are going to eat at the end of them and the larger the clothes you will need.

People not attached to man-made food rules that force your mind onto food and self are free! They have not thought about food almost all day long. God never asked anyone to diet. When man asks you to do something not from God, and you follow it, you are simply developing a trust and a relationship and worship and adoration of man or man’s medicine or man’s science. We are here on Earth to find God and to trust God.

 

 Man made rules are bad, so it's fortunate that Gwen is not a man. 

 

[Hane]

@Red Hair, Black Dress, I wasted so damn many years thinking I was obese because my friends were thinner than I was. I’m sure this came from two things: I was a teen in the era of Twiggy (the Wikipedia article fails to mention that she was venerated for her extreme thinness), and my mom grew up with two extremely thin siblings, while she was slightly heavier than average and made to feel like a manatee. 
Yes, I remember the 5-7-9 shops! I would just stroll by them and shrug. I remember a department store advertising, “We now have size 3s!” and I wondered who the hell was that small.

Oh, and here’s the difference between the old “misses” 6-8-10 and “juniors” 5-7-9 sizing: The “juniors” sizing was more long-waisted, and with a slightly bigger difference between the shoulder and waist measurements, intended to reflect the build of teenagers and younger women. “Junior petites” were a thing, and the size range I wore back then. There was also a very useful size range called “sub-teen,” for tween girls, because girls that age were starting to develop curves  but dresses in the “juniors” range were designed for women with much larger busts. (Because “sub-teen” sizes stopped existing, when my daughter started performing in concerts in middle school, I made her dresses so she could have something that fit her right.)

Edited May 6, 2020 by Hane

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

 Oh yes, junior petites was such a useful sizing. Subteen was perfect -- a little more  sophisticated than girls dresses, but not teenage style, 

Even though I'm not any taller than high school, petite sizes now are too short in the arms and torso. So I make do with Misses sizes and order a short or XS inseam when possible, and hem dresses and skirts.  Misses size mini skirts or above the knee are usually the right length.

Let's clarify that the much larger busts in junior sizes were like 32B, 34B, not the 30A, 32A or 32AA of size 5-7.

My size 3 friend was a 28AA and only wore a bra because "nice" girls didn't go braless.

I have an original dress pattern form the early 1930s, size 12. Bust 30, Waist 22

I read somewhere that Twiggy weighed 95 lbs at 5'6", was naturally very skinny and hated it and her Twiggy nickname.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Red Hair, Black Dress

[SuperNova]

8 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

...because you can chew when you want, and with low calorie foods, you can chew even more.

This is such an unusual way to frame eating that it jumps out at me every time she uses it. Gwen doesn't have an eating disorder, she has a chewing disorder. I think her personal ED has more to do with the act of chewing and swallowing than the food itself. I've personally never considered eating something based solely on how much of it that I get to chew. 

I don't know too much about eating disorders and maybe this is a common discriptive? 

[Xan]

Latest "Life with Gwen and Joe:  Go For It on the 20-Day Challenge"

Spoiler

 

One of the gems:  "We're God's temple and it's sacred.  And if we destroy it, he's going to destroy us.  That is what I call psyching each other up."  (Psyching each other UP??)

She also shows some of Joe's clippings from his high school football glory days.  He was a very cute teenager.  Yeah, Gwen still has lust for Joe.

Joe praises Gwen for her constant ministry work and Gwen says, "... all I know is we're trying to walk in those footsteps of Christ... to pick up that cross and deny ourselves..."  Holy shit, Gwenny.  He was crucified and you think eating a few bites at mealtimes is the same thing?  "He gives us a chance by not only finding that growl every day and denying yourself.  If you don't feel that growl, you can't make a decision to gratify yourself."  She goes on to say that people need to learn to be under "authority" and that is salvation.  You need to practice that "being under authority" of, I guess - Gwen, so you'll understand being under authority in heaven.  If you tear down your earthly spiritual leaders, you'll never make it to heaven.  (Ruh roh.  I wonder who in Remnant is talking smack about Gwen that she feels she needs to throw this in.)  She explain that's she under authority to Joe and that women are "lucky" that they get to practice this so they'll know how to be obedient in heaven. (?)

Screenshots:

Gwen's big, honking diamond.

Gwen's hairdo looks like she's made a hair bandage for some recent brain injury.  Joe is having a sad again.

And the last one looks like a Halloween outfit.

 

 

[Marmion]

On 5/5/2020 at 4:30 PM, RFsurvivor said:

Sometimes I wonder how they would explain away my life being happy. They would talk about people who left who were sad and addicted to drugs. People who were broke and helpless. They would claim anyone who has left but seems happy is hiding their sadness and that Satan has ahold of them. They will only have curses in their life

This falls under phobia indoctrination .  

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7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader’s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group’s perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.

 

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html#four   

3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I read somewhere that Twiggy weighed 95 lbs at 5'6", was naturally very skinny and hated it and her Twiggy nickname.

 

https://www.realitytvworld.com/news/america-next-top-model-judge-twiggy-too-thin-models-terrifying-1010539.php 

On 5/5/2020 at 1:50 PM, Blue said:

I think part of it is not being taken seriously. The other part is that her congregation doesn't care. At the end of the debate they fall back on "Well everyone is happy and smiling so we must be right." It's really insane.

This might help to explain this somewhat .   

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Gaining total control of members is done by assaulting the minds of recruits, an assault meant to control their minds. The mind is located in the brain and in certain hormones and enzymes that travel through the body, affecting our senses. It is through the senses. through seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling and touching. that we know about the world. Think of the body as a giant pharmaceutical factory that manufactures powerful, mind-altering chemicals that we can release by immersing ourselves in mood-altering activities or ingesting mood-altering substances. The medieval Christian mystics who starved and flagellated themselves knew this well. So do Turkey’s Whirling Dervishes, who once a year put on long white robes with full skirts, black cloaks, and tall conical red hats and twirl in unison to the sound of drums and flutes, faster and faster, whirling their way toward God and ecstasy.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mind-body-connection/201407/cults-and-the-mind-body-connection   

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To illustrate what I am saying, I shall introduce you to Jenny, a composite case study of an ex-member. Whilst I have set her story in a Bible-based cult, these issues are applicable to most other “types” of cults....  She had attended her local church as a child but was disenchanted by the sameness of it all. She heard about a new Christian community that had started up a few miles away; and although she heard it was a bit wacky and knew little about it, she was interested in the group’s take on environmental issues and felt there would be no harm in going along and seeing what happened in the community. She was struck by members’ passion, their genuineness, their caring, and their apparent desire to see her join. This touched her deeply because she had never come across such people before, and they were certainly different from those in her local church...  

You might ask how this change takes place. Martin (1993) suggests that the common goal enables the cult to overrule difference: “Cults typically attack an individual’s personality. People differ in their temperaments, interests, talents, and abilities. However, cult groups ignore these differences. Instead, they are focused on a goal or vision to which members must conform…” (p. 122).

Once Jenny had contact with the community, she was groomed and seduced [sometimes called love bombed (Langone, 1993)] into what appeared to be a truly spiritual, loving, exciting, forward-thinking, caring, and trustworthy group of people. But later she came to realise that the community was hiding its true nature. Initially, because she did not have all the information, she idealised them.

https://www.icsahome.com/articles/pseudopersonality   This has been seen in other types of cults as well , such as for instance this one eastern meditation cult .  

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When I had first studied yoga, I had the great fortune of learning from Indian and American teachers who had been at it for 30 years or more. Old-school yoga was taught as a discipline; something you needed to make a commitment to in order to reap the rewards. It was never meant to be a fitness craze. The rewards weren’t buns of steel, a glowing complexion, radical serenity, or even the much-lauded flexibility yoga is renowned for. No, the rewards of yoga were self-mastery and understanding. Put very simply, the purpose of classical yoga was to settle the unruly mind into a place of clear seeing. Nirvana? Sure, it’s a thing, but even that wasn’t the goal. The ultimate goal was being present in the moment and seeing things clearly, without distortion.

The arrival of these magical thinking belief systems changed the American yoga landscape. Teachers with very little life experience to temper their beliefs became obsessed with preaching affirmations during class. When I was running teacher training programs, I noticed apprentice teachers doling out feel-goodisms in class, explicitly telling students how they should feel in the moment: bliss, joy, passion, enlightened, and actively suppressing any other honest expression of frustration, disappointment, fear, or worry.

That was a red flag, full-stop moment for me for several reasons. First off, yoga’s job is to transform, but not to indoctrinate. Secondly, it is patently irresponsible and egotistical for anyone—regardless of profession or training—to tell anyone else how or what to feel in a given moment. Feelings are fluid and changeable and sovereign to each of us, and none are inherently bad. Emotions are signals between our body, brain, and our subconscious and conscious minds. Put another way, feelings are a type of data: they inform. Pathologizing undesirable feelings opens the door to neurosis faster than you can say “namaste”

http://www.pregamemagazine.com/cult-oppressive-positivity/    It's what is known as the pseudo-personality , which cult members are programmed to assume .  

Spoiler

 

P.S. All of this brings to my mind this song .  I know that I could relate to it , while I was still caught up in this one religious sect , as a teenager , that I felt misgivings about , yet didn't feel that I could just break free , or even share my true feelings , as the rest of my family bought into it still .  And I expect that others whom were ever PIMO , no matter the church , or cult , will also be able to identify with the song lyrics .  

Spoiler

 

 

[SilverBeach]

Remnant Fellowship is a CUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!

I've always been heavy, don't want to even talk about what the sizes were for us chubs back in the day. Styles were ugly too. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by SilverBeach

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m sorry but that ring is ridiculous. I could never wear something that big. I actually bought myself a very thin gold band to wear everyday because I just can’t wear my wedding band and engagement ring everyday. And they aren’t even that big!!! I just couldn’t cook, wash dishes, scrub toilets, and do laundry with a big ass ring! It would get caught on everything! But Gwen never does any actual work so I guess it doesn’t matter. 

[Maggie Mae]

On 5/5/2020 at 3:16 PM, DaisyD said:

Dress sizes are fucking dumb. They need to just go to the way men's clothes are sized. Measurements in inches. I can wear anything from a 6 to a 12 depending on the designer. That is stupid. 

Even men's sizes are vanity sized now! Two pairs of 30x32s can fit the Mr in completely different ways, one might be true-to-size, the other is more like a 32x32; it's ridiculous. 

I wish they would standardize all clothing with actual numbers that correspond to measurements. If I need a pair of women's pants, I should be able to order my waist and my inseam; not a 4 short or a 12 tall; those numbers don't mean anything. It's one of my biggest pet peeves. The other being the inability for the US to adapt the metric system. ??

[AmazonGrace]

Paul: dear Colossians,  i am writing to you about being a good and kind, compassionate person

Gwen: here is a verse about not eating

Spoiler

 

Something to Read Daily

May 07, 2020

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

Colossians 2 taught us that man-made rules do not work, and the following passage from Colossians 3 teaches us what God’s rules are and then backs up how quickly we can choose to stop indulging. I recommend—and I have seen it work wonders—to read this chapter every day until you have it memorized in your heart:

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil de- sires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian,Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and for- give whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Colossians 3:1-13

Colossians 3 is filled with action verbs… set your hearts, set your minds, put to death, clothe yourself. Overeating is a misplaced de- sire, and it is sensual indulgence in that it stimulates your senses. You could see how someone who is delighted with a taste, using misdirected thinking, might say, “If one serving was good, then more is better.” The way to reverse this sensual desire is to ignore it and then redirect your desires onto things above—on being with Jesus Christ in Heaven, thinking of forever and ever with God and the Angels and the Saints.

 

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Wrong thread, sorry.

Edited May 7, 2020 by AmazonGrace

[Blue]

18 hours ago, Marmion said:

This falls under phobia indoctrination .  

 

http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html#four   

 

https://www.realitytvworld.com/news/america-next-top-model-judge-twiggy-too-thin-models-terrifying-1010539.php 

This might help to explain this somewhat .   

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mind-body-connection/201407/cults-and-the-mind-body-connection   

https://www.icsahome.com/articles/pseudopersonality   This has been seen in other types of cults as well , such as for instance this one eastern meditation cult .  

http://www.pregamemagazine.com/cult-oppressive-positivity/    It's what is known as the pseudo-personality , which cult members are programmed to assume .  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

P.S. All of this brings to my mind this song .  I know that I could relate to it , while I was still caught up in this one religious sect , as a teenager , that I felt misgivings about , yet didn't feel that I could just break free , or even share my true feelings , as the rest of my family bought into it still .  And I expect that others whom were ever PIMO , no matter the church , or cult , will also be able to identify with the song lyrics .  

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yep.. there's definitely a lot of ways to understand the thinking of people in RF... but to be honest, as a relative and friend of people in RF, it's hard to read it brought down to almost a scientific level with academic explainations and all of that. Yes, there are a lot of studies to show why and how people fall into these cults and stay, but when people you love are in it, it's so much more personal than that. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from spending time with their family without supervision. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from going to family weddings. It's a cult that means I have to sit there while my daughters talk to relatives because I'm paranoid that the cult could influence their faith.

[Marmion]

6 hours ago, Blue said:

Yep.. there's definitely a lot of ways to understand the thinking of people in RF... but to be honest, as a relative and friend of people in RF, it's hard to read it brought down to almost a scientific level with academic explainations and all of that. Yes, there are a lot of studies to show why and how people fall into these cults and stay, but when people you love are in it, it's so much more personal than that. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from spending time with their family without supervision. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from going to family weddings. It's a cult that means I have to sit there while my daughters talk to relatives because I'm paranoid that the cult could influence their faith.

The group that put out the conference , in the video I linked to , was first established by the concerned family members , of members of various cults .  { http://www.apologeticsindex.org/134-international-cultic-studies-association-icsa  ,  https://www.icsahome.com/aboutus/1979-2019 }  But I do acknowledge that the intended audience of the talk was former members , and researchers .  The family of people recruited into cults , and current cult members might not get as much out of it .  

 

21 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Even men's sizes are vanity sized now! Two pairs of 30x32s can fit the Mr in completely different ways, one might be true-to-size, the other is more like a 32x32; it's ridiculous. 

I wish they would standardize all clothing with actual numbers that correspond to measurements. If I need a pair of women's pants, I should be able to order my waist and my inseam; not a 4 short or a 12 tall; those numbers don't mean anything. It's one of my biggest pet peeves. The other being the inability for the US to adapt the metric system. ??

Oh , I agree , and can relate so much to this . I remember buying a pair of shorts from a Kmart , years ago , without first having tried it on . It was sized a large , 40-42 , but when I got it home and tried it on , it floated on me .  My mother found it hard to believe that I needed a medium , 36-38 , but sure enough , with the way that Kmart sized it , a medium was what fit .  In most any other case though , I have taken a large .  

[RFsurvivor]

7 hours ago, Blue said:

. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from spending time with their family without supervision. It's a cult that prevents my daughters from going to family weddings. It's a cult that means I have to sit there while my daughters talk to relatives because I'm paranoid that the cult could influence their faith.

Please keep this up because I know of cases where they try to convert the kids as a way to work on the parents