Meghan and Harry 3: Working Towards Financial Independence

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

I don't actually think it was targeted racism--in that she wore the broach as some personal dig at Meghan. I think it was a manifestation of the general insular racism she lives in.

This could well be so in this instance but she's a fucking asshole, too.

Princess Pushy is widely loathed by others in the family, and is a disgusting person, by most accounts.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

This could well be so in this instance but she's a fucking asshole, too.

You guys are kind.  I know nothing about this woman, but I don't think you wear something that fugly unless you're trying to make a nasty point in doing so.

[just_ordinary]

4 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

The media has genuinely been using racist rhetoric to describe her. “Exotic DNA”, “straight out of Compton”, Archie looks like a monkey. Then there are  the microaggressions. Racism is often subtle and coded.
Not to mention there are British articles that demean her for being American-“Brits don’t have baby showers, WE give gifts after the baby is born”. A commentator from the Sun was complaining that Archie would have a North American accent, not the Queen’s. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/10/701987112/inside-the-racist-online-attacks-on-meghan-markle

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/trevor-noah-looks-at-the-extremely-racist-coverage-of-meghan-markle-in-british-media-video/amp/

 

Sorry but your sources don’t cite anything new but the two racist articles about DNA and Compton. I am aware of them. I was looking for the rest of the “tons of racist coverage” in the tabloids. The infamous monkey comparison was made on a private account (and the guy was rightly fired by his employer) not a public article. See, I am not denying the racism but I think people quote the wrong sources. There might have been micro-racism in official reporting but I am not aware of any examples (probably because I might not notice it myself). The private sources and comment sections though- they are truly disgusting. But they are not going after the people that put out that shit.

The anti-american feelings are on a all time high for a couple of years now. I would actually argue that her being American is seen as much worse than her being a WOC. Being an actress is probably in second place because the acting profession coupled with Hollywood makes people think of LA, glitter, leisure life, throwing out money, luxury, embracing publicity... you get it. If she would have been a renowned stage actress the perception would have probably a bit better. Those two points combined make me still think that apart from the smaller group with racist intentions the majority disliked her from a classist point of view. Looking down on the USA has sadly become a bit of the norm (you know, not able to rule in gun rights, health care, bad infrastructure, tons of over religious mindsets, George W. Bush and now Trump, fighting wars for oil).

Therefore I don’t see the president going down too soon. Now, people will feel validated in comparing her to Wallis Simpson.

I wish H&M would have used some of the truly ugly comments to show the depths of the racism she endured. Because compared to that, the two cited sources read really not that bad. Doesn’t make them ok by any means though. I absolutely understand why she quits (even though I am sure it would have blown over). But I also think they need to make a clear cut because the ties will always be under fire.
 

If the BRF wants to survive, they need to put their foot down on several black sheep. Just because Andrew, the Duchesse of Kent and Fergie got away doesn’t mean this should continue this. Those three and Harry and Meghan should loose titles and every financial support. The first three because of their horrendous (Andrew, Kent) or stupid and shady behaviour (Fergie), the other two, to really be free for their own personal endeavours. I think security should be provided for Harry, Meghan and Archie though. Harry, his partner and children would have always been vulnerable due to his family. Maybe if he had stepped away years ago? But the whole Diana drama makes it unlikely. There would have always been massive interest in him. 

[Pleiades_06]

8 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Sorry but your sources don’t cite anything new but the two racist articles about DNA and Compton. I am aware of them. I was looking for the rest of the “tons of racist coverage” in the tabloids. The infamous monkey comparison was made on a private account (and the guy was rightly fired by his employer) not a public article. See, I am not denying the racism but I think people quote the wrong sources. There might have been micro-racism in official reporting but I am not aware of any examples (probably because I might not notice it myself). The private sources and comment sections though- they are truly disgusting. But they are not going after the people that put out that shit.

The anti-american feelings are on a all time high for a couple of years now. I would actually argue that her being American is seen as much worse than her being a WOC. Being an actress is probably in second place because the acting profession coupled with Hollywood makes people think of LA, glitter, leisure life, throwing out money, luxury, embracing publicity... you get it. If she would have been a renowned stage actress the perception would have probably a bit better. Those two points combined make me still think that apart from the smaller group with racist intentions the majority disliked her from a classist point of view. Looking down on the USA has sadly become a bit of the norm (you know, not able to rule in gun rights, health care, bad infrastructure, tons of over religious mindsets, George W. Bush and now Trump, fighting wars for oil).

Therefore I don’t see the president going down too soon. Now, people will feel validated in comparing her to Wallis Simpson.

I wish H&M would have used some of the truly ugly comments to show the depths of the racism she endured. Because compared to that, the two cited sources read really not that bad. Doesn’t make them ok by any means though. I absolutely understand why she quits (even though I am sure it would have blown over). But I also think they need to make a clear cut because the ties will always be under fire.
 

If the BRF wants to survive, they need to put their foot down on several black sheep. Just because Andrew, the Duchesse of Kent and Fergie got away doesn’t mean this should continue this. Those three and Harry and Meghan should loose titles and every financial support. The first three because of their horrendous (Andrew, Kent) or stupid and shady behaviour (Fergie), the other two, to really be free for their own personal endeavours. I think security should be provided for Harry, Meghan and Archie though. Harry, his partner and children would have always been vulnerable due to his family. Maybe if he had stepped away years ago? But the whole Diana drama makes it unlikely. There would have always been massive interest in him. 

Idk. I’m white, so what I might perceive as racist might not be what a person of color thinks. That’s why I trust them to tell me what they think is racist. I think a lot of it is so micro a white person might miss it. 

I think the British public -and the whole world- has every right to criticize Bush, guns, wars, and Trump. In fact, the world should point out the social and political problems in the US. But cultural differences like language and traditions are subjective and shouldn’t be judged the same way. 

[just_ordinary]

4 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

Idk. I’m white, so what I might perceive as racist might not be what a person of color thinks. That’s why I trust them to tell me what they think is racist. I think a lot of it is so micro a white person might miss it. 

I think the British public -and the whole world- has every right to criticize Bush, guns, wars, and Trump. In fact, the world should point out the social and political problems in the US. But cultural differences like language and traditions are subjective and shouldn’t be judged the same way. 

I agree. That’s why I asked for examples. It‘s never bad to be educated. 
 

Have you never heard the phrase: There is British English and there are mistakes. Make America Great Britain Again. Or read John Cleese letter to Americans? It is funny and pretty mean at the same time because there is obviously an attitude behind it that feels it’s true. 
 

And don’t we judge traditions all the time? Food at weddings for example. Those are not topics judged the same as my examples but they pander to the same mindset. It’s even worse because while you can discuss the serious topics, the soft topics just devalue certain ways of life.

I think it’s complicated to detangle  racism from classism and anti-Americanism (is that a word?) in their case. And sometimes these play together and cannot be properly divided. A lot of (white?) people can identity the last two. But I and many others have a much harder time to identify micro-racism and think they are playing the racism card on completely not racism related criticism because they don’t want to deal with it. So, every example is helping to built up awareness. 
Their wording about press access isn’t unproblematic. Because they basically say they only give access to media outlets they think are presenting things the right way. Now, they can mean they won’t give access to tabloids that write useless smear articles about them but it can also mean they don’t give access to outlets that ask some uncomfortable questions about their actions and business ventures.

It gives an impression as if they would use the racism card to shut down criticism and now they are able to avoid it completely.

[viii]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think security should be provided for Harry, Meghan and Archie though. Harry, his partner and children would have always been vulnerable due to his family. Maybe if he had stepped away years ago? But the whole Diana drama makes it unlikely. There would have always been massive interest in him. 

As much as it doesn't thrill me to think of Canada paying for their security, I do agree that they need it whether it's government funded or personally funded. It would just be too dangerous not to have it, considering how famous they are and how strongly people feel about them. 

As much as Harry has longed for a private life, he was never going to get it. Perhaps if Diana hadn't died then he might have had a shot, but the moment he lost his mother as a young boy he was always going to be a spectacle to the public. I feel sad for him, and I hope that while complex and confusing this decision is, I hope it does lead him to some resemblance of happiness. 

[bird]

I am also neutral on this but my phone thinks I am very interested as it offers me at least 2 Meghan and Harry articles a day. My initial thought is that in reality meghan was actually welcomed openly by the British public. She was given a very expensive and lavish wedding with crowds lining the streets to cheer her and embrace her. The headlines were all about the foursome and I think the mood was one of real optimism and genuine happiness for Harry (who people seem to have a soft spot for despite the Nazi outfits and naked cocaine parties). Before the weirdness around baby Archie's arrival the only negative press she got was coming from her own family. Every single day something new from the dad or sister. Madness. Their biggest mistake was in how they handled that- they surely must have been prepared for the sister!! Anyhow, I think you can't judge how someone has been received based on the comments section of newspapers. Those are filled with extreme views usually. From every day experience of every day English friends I would say most weren't bothered by her- race, nationality or occupation- at all. It's only gone really weird since the tour of South Africa where they seemed so miserable and started getting snippy and lecturing.

My initial reaction to the break up was: who would want to be part of the royal family! But then my second reaction was: but they are his actual family, it's not just a job. But not everyone likes their family I suppose...

[meep]

If anyone is look straight for headlines that "prove racism" using a few select words, you are out of luck. Not because the tabloids are not racist, but because racism is absolutely NOT limited to people using a few select words to nastily describe people. If it were, it would be sooooo easy to point out the racists. there wouldn't be discussions. "That person is racist, case closed, not arguing." But it doesn't work that way. You either see the undercurrents and the subtleties, or you don't. 

 

@bird well we don't know for sure the last time they spoke/saw each other but it's alleged Meghan did not speak to her siblings since 2011. That quite a number of years where you hope they leave you alone. But I'm basing that off my own personal feelings, not evidence, as I'm also estranged from my own sister for over 8 years now. 

Double edit: please excuse all my mistakes, i'm literally typing from bed LOL

Edited January 16, 2020 by meep
add in a reply

[ShesCrafty]

I don’t really like this couple, they both strike me as shallow people who crave the spot light. I’m rolling my eyes hard about their plan to be financially independent but also expecting the government to pay for their security and still get an allowance from daddy and of course, they’d still love to live rent free at Frogmore when they happen to be in the neighborhood. Give me a freakin break. 
 

That being said, I’m a bit shocked at the way some people are downplaying the racism Meghan has obviously faced. There have been three concrete examples given is this thread alone but they not overtly racist “enough” for you? You want more examples to determine if she has faced enough racism to be upset about it? 

Racism is not always overt. Micro aggressions are very, very real. Even one instance of racism is one instance too many and she has every right to be goddamn angry about it. 

 

[bird]

4 hours ago, meep said:

If anyone is look straight for headlines that "prove racism" using a few select words, you are out of luck. Not because the tabloids are not racist, but because racism is absolutely NOT limited to people using a few select words to nastily describe people. If it were, it would be sooooo easy to point out the racists. there wouldn't be discussions. "That person is racist, case closed, not arguing." But it doesn't work that way. You either see the undercurrents and the subtleties, or you don't. 

 

@bird well we don't know for sure the last time they spoke/saw each other but it's alleged Meghan did not speak to her siblings since 2011. That quite a number of years where you hope they leave you alone. But I'm basing that off my own personal feelings, not evidence, as I'm also estranged from my own sister for over 8 years now. 

Double edit: please excuse all my mistakes, i'm literally typing from bed LOL

Sure, but the royal family has access to all sorts of PR experts and years of experience so I think something could have and should have been done behind the scenes to contain all that drama. It was too much. I actually felt really sorry for her. 

I'm not denying racism occurred. I don't really read the sort of newspapers that would have that content. My point was that the general public was very open and welcoming. The press is different. What I saw most commonly was headlines about her family so I commented on that drama only. 

 

[meep]

@ShesCrafty I also feel they are probably very shallow in real life! I understand them wanting security for public events but if they want full-time, I feel like they should pay for it out of their own pocket (or Princes Charles' pocket, whatever). As far as I know, it should be expected that they pay rent while staying at Frogmore since all the other minor royals have to do pay rent. I don't think they should be an exception. But those details are still being hammered out. Of course they will be still be hyper-privileged and get Charles' and the Queen's (private) money, he's still a richie rich and that's not going to change. I know people have said $45 million (which apparenly Harry has? think these are just guesstimations) should be enough for them to live off of but they also reportedly spend lavishly so maybe not. 

[Blahblah]

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/meghan-markle-may-never-return-to-live-in-britain-as-staff-are-axed-from-frogmore-cottage/news-story/d06fe700908f3fdfc38370d6e3af6401
 

And now staff are being  relocated  from Frogmore Cottage allegedly. 
Also, more waffle from “close friends” of Meghan.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Blahblah
Typo

[meep]

20 minutes ago, Blahblah said:

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/meghan-markle-may-never-return-to-live-in-britain-as-staff-are-axed-from-frogmore-cottage/news-story/d06fe700908f3fdfc38370d6e3af6401
 

And now staff are being related from Frogmore Cottage allegedly. 
Also, more waffle from “close friends” of Meghan.

Thanks for the link! ?

I don't see how it's a sign they will "never return." Their own website says they intend to split their time. I'm guessing they would be at Frogmore at most 6 months out of the year, but probably less. They don't need those 2 full-time live-in staff, it would be wasteful. Everyone else is getting re-assigned jobs. All they'll need is a quick clean and prep before they come back to the U.K. It's just practical. My opinion only. 

Oh, and I don't trust all these "friends" speaking to the press, whether it's good or bad stuff! 

[hoipolloi]

When it comes to the Sussexes, more than one thing can be true at the same time: Meghan has been the target of unrelenting racism, since day one; Harry & Meghan are feckless, entitled dolts, who probably have no idea how they'll achieve "financial independence;" Meghan's father is an asshole and so is her older sister, Samantha. 

Re: moving to Canada. Wonder what their immigration status is. Neither one of them would seem to be a citizen though Meghan may still have permanent resident status from her time living in Toronto while acting in Suits. 

[ViolaSebastian]

 

[meep]

Meghan had a busy day two days ago while in Vancouver. 

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/duchess-meghan-visits-womens-shelter-canada-1st-appearance/story?id=68295128

First, she visited Downtown Eastside Women's Center. 
"The Downtown Eastside Women’s Centre (DEWC) is one of the busiest women’s centres in the country, operating a low-barrier drop-in centre and emergency night shelter in the Downtown Eastside. By connecting members to a continuum of care and a community, we empower them towards positive change. DEWC provides basic needs including nutritious meals, laundry, showers, phone and computer access, and clothing, as well as support services including advocacy, housing outreach, HIV case management, Chinese seniors outreach, victim services, and skills development. Our kitchen program serves up to 500 meals daily, totaling up to 182,500 meals annually. Demand for our services is growing exponentially, and we rely heavily on community support to sustain our ongoing work."

Then, she visited Justice For Girls Canada.
"Justice for Girls was founded in 1999 in response to national and international calls for gender-specific programs and services for teenage girls. Recognizing and addressing the intersecting forms of oppression that young women face, including intergenerational impacts of colonization, is fundamental to our work toward ending violence against girls and young women living in poverty. We believe girls are experts in their own experience and must define solutions to issues that affect their lives."
....Not to be confused with the children's clothing store.

[Pleiades_06]

The Telegraph is comparing her to Wallis Simpson. Absolutely different situations. Very sexist article claiming she is stealing Harry from his beloved land, family, blah blah blah.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/stop-history-repeating-meghan-must-070000696.html

[bird]

Just dropping in to say that I am apparently rather naive and oblivious because when I mentioned the racism issue to my English husband he gave me quite a look and said "duh". When I said I thought people just didn't like her and he said " yes,  because she is black". 

I'm sorry she has been treated so poorly but I still think a lot of average people like her. Or don't care either way. 

[LittleOwl]

News has broken that they will be giving up their HRH titles. 

[Tiny Bubbles]

And also repaying money spent on the refurbishment of Frogmore Cottage. 

[bird]

The radio news referred to it as a hard megxit. Made me chuckled. 

[louisa05]

Aside from loss of HRH status and paying back for the renovations at Frogmore, they will also pay commercial level rent for the house. And have zero royal duties including military appointments. In return, they can make money privately. Clearly, the Queen wasn't having the half in/half out game they were proposing. Their "FAQ" that accompanied the original announcement said they would continue royal duties including occasional tours and keeping patronages. Looks like that is not happening. 

Nothing on the allowance from Charles. I suppose that is his decision.  And nothing on security. I assume that is still to be determined. But it's becoming abundantly clear that if the government of Canada agrees to partially fund it, they will have an angry public on their hands. 

This marriage has been such a circus of crap, that I wouldn't be surprised by a divorce in a few years or less. I wonder what will happen to Harry then. Will he regret this? 

[tabitha2]

Probably he will. He just signed away his birthright and really distanced himself from those who really loved him. Some bridges can’t just be burnt and Thano’s snapped back into place. 

[formergothardite]

25 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

really distanced himself from those who really loved him.

Well if they truly loved him  then their love wasn't conditional on him remaining in the royal circus. 

[WiseGirl]

43 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Clearly, the Queen wasn't having the half in/half out game they were proposing. 

I wonder if they we surprised at that? I also wonder if there is an air tight nondisclosure document they have to sign. (Or whatever it is called.)