Dillards 81: Volunteering for God

[Exposedknees]

I notice that Jill's incredibly mundane Instagram feed with recipes, oddly photographed pix of her boys, or #best hubby,  stories are randomly punctuated with Christian music or a Bible verse only every week or so... It's like all of the sudden she thinks " HOLY CRAP! I need to put something about JESUS!"

[SassyPants]

Another reason why I think the Dillard children are more spaced out is because Jill is an extended breast feeder, or at least BFs until her babies are 2 years of age. I doubt any of the others nurse quite that long, although Jessa has commented that Henry nursed far longer than Spurgeon. I wonder if Kendra nurses at all? 

[mollysmom]

12 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Another reason why I think the Dillard children are more spaced out is because Jill is an extended breast feeder, or at least BFs until her babies are 2 years of age. I doubt any of the others nurse quite that long, although Jessa has commented that Henry nursed far longer than Spurgeon. I wonder if Kendra nurses at all? 

I feel like I've seen her nursing under a cover (of course!) on the show before but I very well could be wrong. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

With no easy show money, a new home, no family supporting job and school tuition, I think the Dillards are edging closer to the realities of life in the real, adult world. Kids and living expenses are expensive.

Oh yeah, I think Jill is, finally, settling into real world and actually enjoying herself. I do think they will have 1 or 2 more kids though, after Derick finishes Law School and has  job. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by allthegoodnamesrgone

[Giraffe]

I’m glad they only have two so far. It sets a precedent for the others that you can still be a “good christian” and not go overboard on having kids.

[SassyPants]

Like the commenters above, I agree with others that it’s good for the Dillards to be  living more in the real world. I hope Jill is not angry or disappointed in her previous life( isolated, no friends, no activities, no freedoms, education or choice).

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I think the idea of them slowing down baby production and taking care of the kids they have is great, but if they're boinking as frequently as they say they do, they're likely preventing pregnancy. If they are in fact using contraception, I hope they're less vocal in their anti-choice crusade (which they have been). It would be amazing if they (even quietly) advocated for subsidized birth control for low income families and students (just the married students because we all know abstinence is the only option for the others).

Yup. I know. It'll never happen.

Edited December 14, 2019 by VeryNikeSeamstress

[marmalade]

In a Twitter post a while back, Derelict said that he never said that he opposes birth control. So, there's that

[grandmadugger]

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Like the commenters above, I agree with others that it’s good for the Dillards to be  living more in the real world. I hope Jill is not angry or disappointed in her previous life( isolated, no friends, no activities, no freedoms, education or choice).

I don’t know how she couldn’t be disappointed in her childhood even if it is just a little. 

[Exposedknees]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:45 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Oh yeah, I think Jill is, finally, settling into real world and actually enjoying herself.

I find Jill to be very, very, conflicted. While she enjoys her different life to some extent- she seems desperate to be involved in her old life too, While Jinger seems at ease outside the Dugbubble;  Jill seems desperate to get back in... look at her constant posts over the most inane things, and commenting on EVERYTHING her siblings post. Being filmed was a huge part of her life, I think she misses it. JimBob's cult ideology was to isolate his precious family from outside influence. Jill was never allowed to pursue friends or network.  She seems desperate to appear okay and happy with her headships choices, but IDK if she is.  

Jinger was desperate to be freed of Dugbubble/NWA/Rural Life, Jill was forced out by Derrick. 

[HereticHick]

Oh Jill, I can't think of a worse place to store my dried wedding bouquet than above a steamy bathtub. Bless your heart.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by HereticHick

[socalrules]

Maybe it’s because I am from California, the whole hanging thing would stress me out. All I see is the object that will come raining down on me when the earthquake comes....also the tub seems small as though I couldn’t stretch my legs out in it. 

[SweetLaurel]

On 12/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, SassyPants said:

. I wonder if Kendra nurses at all? 

Why does it matter?  Kid is obviously fed.  Just curious.   

[freealljs]

When I saw the IG pics of the shelf, I only thought of the steam and dust on the shelf and its belongings. She made a rookie mistake.  If she is intent on that being in the bathroom, she can use a shadow box, so the contents won't become wet over time.  She could also hang the shelf in a different room, like an office or master bedroom.  

Come to think of it, that whole house isn't really decorated in any style.  

 

 

[Bazinga]

1 hour ago, SweetLaurel said:

Why does it matter?  Kid is obviously fed.  Just curious.   

I'm not the OP, but based on the rest of their post, it is out of curiosity due to child spacing. While breastfeeding doesn't always work for women as a natural birth control, is does for some people. So if Kendra is nursing, and even potentially extended nursing, maybe they won't pop out another duggarling in the near future. But I don't think the OP was making a comment to shame Kendra if she wasn't breastfeeding. But just assuming here, of course. SassyPants can speak for herself and correct me if I'm wrong. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, SweetLaurel said:

Why does it matter?  Kid is obviously fed.  Just curious.   

It doesn’t matter at all. I was just wondering in terms of spacing of children. We know that JD does nurse for a longer time because she’s mentioned it. Jessa  has also mentioned that Henry nursed much longer than SES, and we know that Jessa fell pregnant much faster with Henry than with Ivy. We know that Michelle nursed. I just didn’t recall Kendra ever mentioning anything about nursing, so I asked the question. Kendra obviously got PG before Garrett’s first birthday.  I was just looking at patterns of how BF for longer periods, or at all, possibly affects these women’s fertility. 

5 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

I'm not the OP, but based on the rest of their post, it is out of curiosity due to child spacing. While breastfeeding doesn't always work for women as a natural birth control, is does for some people. So if Kendra is nursing, and even potentially extended nursing, maybe they won't pop out another duggarling in the near future. But I don't think the OP was making a comment to shame Kendra if she wasn't breastfeeding. But just assuming here, of course. SassyPants can speak for herself and correct me if I'm wrong. 

Thank you. We were obviously posting the same message at the same time. Yes, I was looking at how breast feeding might affect the spacing of pregnancies, and number of babies born. I was in no way trying to shame any mother or question why she might choose to feed a certain way.

[SweetLaurel]

27 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

. While breastfeeding doesn't always work for women as a natural birth control, is does for some people. So if Kendra is nursing, and even potentially extended nursing, maybe they won't pop out another duggarling in the near future.

Oh - I see - I never think of that - my mom had 4 kids in less than five years breastfeeding exclusively and we are all less than 11 months apart.   I don't 'see' breastfeeding as birth control.  Mommy taught me well.   

Edited December 16, 2019 by SweetLaurel

[singsingsing]

I think exclusive breastfeeding is a lot like withdrawal, it’s a very effective form of birth control for some people, but for others, not at all. And the problem is that you won’t know until you try it.

[mollysmom]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

Maybe it’s because I am from California, the whole hanging thing would stress me out. All I see is the object that will come raining down on me when the earthquake comes....also the tub seems small as though I couldn’t stretch my legs out in it. 

Lol I was just thinking that I would love to have that tub!! 

[SweetJuly]

It was in one of the fascinating books by Jared Diamond, probably The World Until Yesterday, that I read about breastfeeding as birth control.

Basically it only works more or less reliably if you breastfeed frequently the way many traditional societies do, which means several times an hour(!), and if you are below a certain body fat percentage.

Given that we in highly developed nations don't often have a sufficiently low body fat percentage - which is a good thing! a nursing mother should be eating healthily and not starving herself - breastfeeding is not a reliable form of birth control at all. It might still work for some women as we're all different, but if you're not yet ready for another baby you should always use an additional method to be on the safe side.

[Melissa1977]

50 minutes ago, SweetJuly said:

It was in one of the fascinating books by Jared Diamond, probably The World Until Yesterday, that I read about breastfeeding as birth control.

Basically it only works more or less reliably if you breastfeed frequently the way many traditional societies do, which means several times an hour(!), and if you are below a certain body fat percentage.

Given that we in highly developed nations don't often have a sufficiently low body fat percentage - which is a good thing! a nursing mother should be eating healthily and not starving herself - breastfeeding is not a reliable form of birth control at all. It might still work for some women as we're all different, but if you're not yet ready for another baby you should always use an additional method to be on the safe side.

Breastfeeding is not a safe method but the reasons in the book are not right. When you breastfeed on demand, periods came back soon or later depending hormones and luck. Not depending on fat. And no need to breasfeed several times during an hour all through the day (no, traditional cultures don't do that).

I'm thin, and my fat level is normal (not high, but not too low). I breastfeed on demand but it meant each 2 hours at the beginning and less and less after.the kids started eating solids. Both my period came back when they turned 1 year old. It means that the shortest gap between kids would be 20-21 months. Exactly the same pattern than our beloved Zsu* (who has very high fat levels I guess). Anna Duggar has the same pattern. 

*Zsu used to nurse kids on demand longer than 1 year. When she started bottles, it chamged and she's getting pregnant faster than ever.

 

[apandaaries]

4 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

It was in one of the fascinating books by Jared Diamond, probably The World Until Yesterday, that I read about breastfeeding as birth control.

Basically it only works more or less reliably if you breastfeed frequently the way many traditional societies do, which means several times an hour(!), and if you are below a certain body fat percentage.

Given that we in highly developed nations don't often have a sufficiently low body fat percentage - which is a good thing! a nursing mother should be eating healthily and not starving herself - breastfeeding is not a reliable form of birth control at all. It might still work for some women as we're all different, but if you're not yet ready for another baby you should always use an additional method to be on the safe side.

I’d file this under “Shit Men Say and Believe, Without Sufficient Lived Experience.” Lactational amenorrhea exists, but only for some. My period was happy to return very early, and that’s been the experience of the EBF women of my family. And it wasn’t due to fat, as my great-grandmother was still reproducing during the Depression.
“Irish twins” also wouldn’t be a saying if lactational amenorrhea worked as well as some folks say.  It exists for some women, but it’s definitely not a form of birth control not present for every woman.

[SweetJuly]

When you dive into the research regarding LAM, you'll emerge with "many factors impact it", and the realisation that its simply still quite a mystery.

Given that the endocrine system is highly complex, and a critical level of body fat is necessary to ensure fertility, I don't find it that unlikely that the amount of body fat can be one of the factors to impact LAM,

Anecdotal evidence means very little as for every woman who successfully prevented pregnancy with breastfeeding, there is one who conceived a surprise baby at the same time.

[breakfree]

While I agree that breastfeeding isn't effective birth control for all women, and isn't effective for most after 6 months, it is effective for 6 months for MOST (like 98% most) of women who do ALL of the following:

-Breastfeed 100% on demand never ever going over 4 hours without bf

-Never use a pump

-Never use a pacifier

-Never give ANY formula

-Never give ANY solids

As our current (western) society by and large isn't set up to easily allow for this for most women it's very hard to practice it perfectly. 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 12/1/2019 at 7:51 AM, LillyP said:

I'm dying at all this paper plate nonsense. People are really this up in arms over using paper plates on a holiday? Like WTF does it matter what someone else does? 

DH and I host the holidays every year at our home with an all out spread - complete with restaurant style chafing dishes. We're sticklers for properly hosting your guests - and he's even so particular about it he won't even bake the pies the day before...they must be baked fresh that morning. Even still we use the plastic plates & silverware that mimic china. Why? Because who has enough real dishes/china for 20+ people? 

Now on Christmas it's a MUCH smaller crowd of just immediate family and we always use real china. 

 

First, reuseable plastic plates are probably fine. It's the disposable stuff that I personally have a problem with. (Not to say I never bow to convenience and use them, but it's pretty rare.)

Disposable stuff has a non-zero effect on C footprint, landfill space, and energy use (ie the energy used to create the stuff in the factory and move it around the globe). We all contribute to this problem to some extent but the Duggars seem to do this every day. That is a lot of resources.

In general I'm mostly for the "you do you" culture of non-judgemental individualism BUT some personal choices have an environmental or social cost and I find that tension is often ignored.

It doesn't help that I'm a little bit naturally judgy and I'm an environmental scientist. But the "you do you" culture really ignores larger consequences. If I think about it, it's really economic thinking writ large: every consumer should do what they like and the market will reflect that. That's fine except that we as humans are great at ignoring externalized costs to our environment and we're terrible at forseeing complex consequences ("if we all use lots of paper plates, more forest will be cleared, bird diversity will decline, etc.").

That all said, I totally get it that having 20 plates on hand is likely unreasonable for most people. I used to host a lot of family dinners and potlucks because I had a big rental house and we had 20+ china plates, all cobbled together from thrift stores and former roommates. Did they match? Nope. Did anyone care? Nope. Was it relatively easy to clean up, especially with a dishwasher and one or two helpful friends? Yes!

Maybe we should make the "bring your own plate and cutlery to the potluck, and take them home to wash them" idea the norm. It seems reasonable.

 

ETA: Meant to add the usual disclaimer that yes, there are disabled people and others who cannot wash a dish and disposables make sense for them.

Edited December 18, 2019 by PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea
forgot a point!