Dillards 81: Volunteering for God

[PennySycamore]

18 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

I mean, we’re known for our GDP, so why not help out our citizens? 
But yeah, this is the US, so... why not have Jeff Bezos build an insane mansion while people starve on the streets or in their homes? Bootstraps, etc... ?

Rick Steves wrote a blog post a couple of years ago about how some of his friends in Switzerland could not understand how a country with so many professing Christians -and loudly professing at that-  could be okay with so many of the people in their country being hungry, homeless, or otherwise poor.  How can they be opposed to having the government help people?

[patsymae]

The food shaming and snobbery and tone deafness here is just staggering.

This week I didn't "put in my mail" for the organic turkey to the butcher; I ate what the food bank gave me to eat. Because I share with some people who help me around my home but are squatters with no electricity (have a grill to heat food but no fridge to store, and no hot water to wash dishes with), I gave them dinners on paper plates.

Defy you snobs to have a lower carbon profile than us.

[Coco]

11 minutes ago, patsymae said:

The food shaming and snobbery and tone deafness here is just staggering.

This week I didn't "put in my mail" for the organic turkey to the butcher; I ate what the food bank gave me to eat. Because I share with some people who help me around my home but are squatters with no electricity (have a grill to heat food but no fridge to store, and no hot water to wash dishes with), I gave them dinners on paper plates.

Defy you snobs to have a lower carbon profile than us.

I've been in similar circumstances. ((Hugs)) its startling to realize how struggle is only one hardship away for 99% of people. 

It makes me thankful to live out in the country where good things are still pretty cheap with the time, tools and the know how. Nothing beats fresh food right from the garden made with just the right spices. I'll never take it for granted, after living without it. $50+ for an organic turkey sounds like a lot but then there's the feed and processing involved in raising and preparing one, helps to look at it like that I guess. 

[Bobology]

I've waded through a few pages of Paper Plates! to be able to say this:

In a post a few pages back @luv2laugh used the phrase, "publicly unruly Derick" and it made my day. Somewhere, somehow it needs to be used. Henceforth, in my wee mind, I'll think of Derick as "Pud."

 

[Maggie Mae]

3 hours ago, patsymae said:

The food shaming and snobbery and tone deafness here is just staggering.

This week I didn't "put in my mail" for the organic turkey to the butcher; I ate what the food bank gave me to eat. Because I share with some people who help me around my home but are squatters with no electricity (have a grill to heat food but no fridge to store, and no hot water to wash dishes with), I gave them dinners on paper plates.

Defy you snobs to have a lower carbon profile than us.

I'm sorry for your personal circumstances. I don't believe that anyone on this forum would want you to not have what you need, and no one is going to choose no food over food on a paper plate. 

That being said, we all still have our preferences. Just because you are in a shitty situation doesn't mean that the rest of us can't work to decrease our single use object consumption and prefer using non disposable plates and cutlery, and yes, talk about it. If that makes me a snob, sorry.

[purjolok84]

Welp. We're nearly four years into the current administration defunding/deregulating the FDA; we can't risk it. Poo lettuce from farmers not being forced to test their irrigation water is bad enough let alone pre-thawed turkeys that might be from another country altogether. I stopped buying hamburger at a grocery store because the package listed three countries of origin lol. I don't eat a lot of red meat but for my hubby and the kids we just buy from a rancher friend who gets his beef processed in town but I don't think the local butcher does anything smaller than pigs by order. Can't just walk in and pick it up. For our chicken I buy whole frozen and trust that when it says no hormones they're only half lying. [emoji20] We're going to have our own chickens asap [emoji173]️️

Just so I’m very sure, we’re talking about human poo?

[apandaaries]

4 hours ago, patsymae said:

The food shaming and snobbery and tone deafness here is just staggering.

This week I didn't "put in my mail" for the organic turkey to the butcher; I ate what the food bank gave me to eat. Because I share with some people who help me around my home but are squatters with no electricity (have a grill to heat food but no fridge to store, and no hot water to wash dishes with), I gave them dinners on paper plates.

Defy you snobs to have a lower carbon profile than us.

No one here is saying your circumstances should be frowned upon nor accepted. There is enough food produced in the world to feed everyone; it’s capitalism that works to keep many people too poor and a few exorbitantly wealthy. We should ALL have access to healthy, hot meals, roofs over our heads,  education, and health care.
That the US could afford all those things, yet gives the Uber-wealthy tax breaks while funding endless wars, isn’t a personal attack.  This is shit that impacts everyone. We deserve better from our economy and political systems. Human beings deserve better. All of our carbon profiles matter; we’re all in this together. 
 

Spoiler

Except the billionaires planning to depart to New Zealand during climate change catastrophes. We should eat them. Kidding. Sort of.

 

8 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

@Granwych,  I've always roasted fresh turkeys and people rave about how delicious the bird is.  If I had the money, I'd get a heritage breed of turkey as they are supposed to be especially flavorfull.

Barbara Kingsolver has an especially hysterical passage in Animal,Vegetable, Miracle about trying to get her heritage turkeys to mate. They had imprinted in humans and would apparently try to seduce her husband. Or water cans left out. Eventually they figured things out, but wow. Domestication of fowl has led to some odd behaviors.

[AliceInFundyland]

17 minutes ago, purjolok84 said:

 

Just so I’m very sure, we’re talking about human poo?

 

https://www.consumerreports.org/food-safety/packaged-salad-recalled-due-to-e-coli-concerns/

This was just last week. I was looking for the ones from 2018.

This article is a good one about why lettuce is rather susceptible to contamination.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4295655002

Cattle poop....

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/08/29/642646707/investigators-track-contaminated-lettuce-outbreak-to-a-cattle-feedlot

[purjolok84]

Thanks for the links,@AliceInFundyland!

Cow poo sounds much more plausible. It sounds like either farm or both may have hinky sanitary practises.

I’ve been trying to grow different types of lettuce from seed this year and so far have not had much success, but I’m going to keep trying after reading your links. Or buy some seedlings.

[Gobbles]

9 hours ago, Granwych said:

Is there a noticeable flavor to the meat?

I'm biased but my Dad who would eat the cheapest meat and doesn't care about quality says there is. He would buy the frozen supermarket stuff any minute, my Mum and I are the ones who aim for better living quality for the animals. The difference between fresh/frozen is not really existent in my opinion, but you notice it if the bird was outside/free range. 

And to the person who wrote about food shaming. My family is able to buy such things and I live with them. I can't work due to my disability and I have the card to buy cheap food at the German version of a food bank. But I don't buy it there because I feel like I would be taking away from those who really need it because my family supports me. I do buy clothes and other non food stuff.

Don't judge without knowing the situation. 

[apandaaries]

49 minutes ago, Gobbles said:

 

And to the person who wrote about food shaming. My family is able to buy such things and I live with them. I can't work due to my disability and I have the card to buy cheap food at the German version of a food bank. But I don't buy it there because I feel like I would be taking away from those who really need it because my family supports me. I do buy clothes and other non food stuff.

Don't judge without knowing the situation. 

Buy it, baby. Let them know the programs are working. 
 

Spoiler

I write this as an adjunct who looks lovingly and longingly at the bags of fresh produce students get every Thursday. I’m working my way towards joining the line, since heaven knows food costs money, and my paycheck doesn’t reflect that. There shouldn’t be shame when things are offered and the system is as ducked up as it is. But it still exists. It’s hard. But it’s not like I deserve less due to circumstances, nor that anyone else should go without due to their circumstances.

This is all capitalism, folks. We’re stronger together as people who deserve the basics. Fuck the billionaires, and bring on the pitchforks!

 

[AliceInFundyland]

@apandaaries

Out of curiosity, what kind of program are you talking about? In the majority of places that I'm aware of, students are shut out of free food programs. Loans and aid counting as income and all that jazz.

[apandaaries]

4 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

@apandaaries

Out of curiosity, what kind of program are you talking about? In the majority of places that I'm aware of, students are shut out of free food programs. Loans and aid counting as income and all that jazz.

At my local community college, folks show up on Thursdays to get bags full of produce and other shelf-stable food items. I’m in CA, centrally and coastally located,  where a lot of Americans’ food is farmed.
We may be leading the way with our programs, but I do know for sure that a lot of the people who cut our produce (or their children) can’t afford to eat it. And I think that is bullshit.

[kmachete14]

The food bank in my hometown, where my mom volunteers, is set up like a grocery store. It has fresh produce and people get “tickets” for items from each section (deli, produce, frozen foods, canned foods, desserts, baby items) and walk around with shopping carts. You don’t even have to prove your income with any documents, you can just sign up and go. I lived in one of the consistently rated top towns to raise a family in the USA, so I think perhaps this is def not the norm!!! But I just wanted to say my mom has commented on how crazy it is that the customers can get so much produce and she is happy to see it! 

[Meggo]

20 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

In the United States? Surely you jest. These past few weeks have taught me how incredibly expensive it is to get old here and need support and trying to find support without bankrupting...it's so sad and frustrating. 

On the flip side- I'm in Canada - marveling at how I've never paid one penny for my sons eye appointments, his month long stay in the NICU at birth (which would probably have either hit his lifetime cap or given him a pre-existing condition in the US), 98% of his speech therapy (we did pay one therapist for a few weeks on our own - over the summer), his OT (which, okay - is through school). He's about to start therapy to help him with his anger - and that is allllll covered. 

I know a single mom of two kids, one who is about 4 and has had a few heart surgeries, who is about to have surgery herself. And while she's certainly not rolling in dough (although - ha ha - she works at a pizza place so - ha ha!) - she's not thinking "food for my kids, roof over their heads or medical care"). She likely had to wait for her surgery (not clear on what it is - but I didn't get the impression it was at all life threatening). And we DID need to wait a few months for an appointment to see the counselor we're starting with soon. But... what a relief. 

And small business? how nice it is to know that you COULD pay for extra health care for your employees if you start a new business - but that everyone has the basics covered anyway. 

[Iburneddinner]

33 minutes ago, Meggo said:

On the flip side- I'm in Canada - marveling at how I've never paid one penny for my sons eye appointments, his month long stay in the NICU at birth (which would probably have either hit his lifetime cap or given him a pre-existing condition in the US), 98% of his speech therapy (we did pay one therapist for a few weeks on our own - over the summer), his OT (which, okay - is through school). He's about to start therapy to help him with his anger - and that is allllll covered. 

I know a single mom of two kids, one who is about 4 and has had a few heart surgeries, who is about to have surgery herself. And while she's certainly not rolling in dough (although - ha ha - she works at a pizza place so - ha ha!) - she's not thinking "food for my kids, roof over their heads or medical care"). She likely had to wait for her surgery (not clear on what it is - but I didn't get the impression it was at all life threatening). And we DID need to wait a few months for an appointment to see the counselor we're starting with soon. But... what a relief. 

And small business? how nice it is to know that you COULD pay for extra health care for your employees if you start a new business - but that everyone has the basics covered anyway. 

in America here! And our health care system is horrible.  My daughter is recovering from anorexia and our insurance covered NONE of her care?. We paid out of pocket for her therapy, dietician and heavy copays for the Drs appts and tests she had to have plus an ER visit. I had to let bills go past due to make sure she was taken care of.  We got a 2nd mortgage on our house to catch everything up, but another health crisis and we will lose everything. It's a scary feeling

[AliceInFundyland]

The 24 hr ER visit I experienced in October has just come in @$4800. That's a 20 minute ambhlance ride,
a fair amount of saline w/ probably antinausea stuff. They did some ekg. Had a blood and urine panel. I had some tylenol as well as my regular daily meds. They fed me.

I saw one medical doctor for about 30 minutes. One psychiatrist, also about 30 minutes.

3 separate bills

[Iburneddinner]

The billing issue is ridiculous too. For my daughter's procedure the hospital billed, the GI Dr billed us, the anesthesiologist billed us. I couldn't remember who I had already paid

[Cleopatra7]

21 hours ago, PennySycamore said:

Rick Steves wrote a blog post a couple of years ago about how some of his friends in Switzerland could not understand how a country with so many professing Christians -and loudly professing at that-  could be okay with so many of the people in their country being hungry, homeless, or otherwise poor.  How can they be opposed to having the government help people?

White American Christianity, especially in its evangelical and fundamentalist forms, is hyper individualistic. That is to say, it’s all about the individual soul standing naked and alone in front of the wrath of an angry god. In this scheme, what you believe as an individual is of paramount importance, and what you do sort of falls by the wayside (theoretically, as we’ve seen how white Protestant fundies have all kind of rituals to showcase their performative beliefs). Churches become less of a community and more of a place where a bunch of “saved” individuals congregate way individuals. A lot of this stems from the Second Great Awakening, which affected Americans of all stripes, even Catholics and Jews who would ordinarily look sideways at evangelical religion: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Great_Awakening

The result was an American spirituality that was affective and focused on individual conversion experiences.

However, anti-black racism also plays a huge role in why white Christians tend to look down on the government helping people. From the era of Bismarck, the welfare state in Europe has traditionally been used to get the working classes to accept a slightly tweaked status quo. In the US, support for the welfare state occurs when blacks are not able to benefit from it. Early twentieth century  Progressive era schemes for urban modernization and civic citizenship were conceived specifically with the idea that blacks would not benefit from them, which is why so many black neighborhoods are in a perpetual state of blight. This is why various presidents going back to Teddy Roosevelt have tried for a national healthcare system and failed, because of widespread concern about “those people” benefitting from it. The communitarian ethic of the Christians Democracy Movement never became a thing here, partly because there was a pre-existing political ideology in place, but partly because so many groups, not just blacks, were defined as being not part of the community or tangential at best to it. 

[neuroticcat]

On 11/29/2019 at 6:17 AM, SassyPants said:

Maybe the meal was filmed for the show and therefore the Dillards weren’t included? 

Could be. I also think it might be Jill and Derick who are staying away. If they are trying to break free and set new patterns, they might need super low contact. 

I remember the Talking Head where Jill talked about scarfing food in the bathroom. The way they looked at each other made me think even then they were realizing the unhealthy dynamics. 

They are involved in a more mainstream church, spacing their kids, engaging with the world outside of fundie connections, and posting about a lot of friends and things outside the typical group and Dericks throwing shade publicly. They’re not doing it perfectly- none of us do when getting out of toxic dynamics- but so think they’re the ones with the boundaries here. At least I hope so!!!

[neuroticcat]

The: paper plates. Love them as long as they’re compostable. I totally get why the Duggars would opt for them.

the styrophome ones in 19k make me cringe though.

[SilverBeach]

On 12/1/2019 at 8:20 PM, patsymae said:

I gave them dinners on paper plates.

No one was criticizing your situation. We have common sense here. The Duggars have four dishwashers and are not poor. FWIW, I have never had a custom ordered fresh turkey in all of my 64 years. Or any fresh turkey for that matter.

3 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

I totally get why the Duggars would opt for them.

Because they are a bunch of lazy fucks, that's why.

Edited December 3, 2019 by SilverBeach

[grandmadugger]

4 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

 

I remember the Talking Head where Jill talked about scarfing food in the bathroom. The way they looked at each other made me think even then they were realizing the unhealthy dynamics. 

Derrick was all WTF in that segment. I always thought that was the moment he knew his wife had a fucked up upbringing. 

[Coco]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:40 PM, purjolok84 said:

 

Just so I’m very sure, we’re talking about human poo?

 

It's runoff, so potentially but more likely cow. Most of the county's winter lettuce comes from the same place. E coli anyway. 

 

"The trails of contaminated lettuce did not converge on any single point. Instead, there were lots of trails, leading to different processing plants and a bunch of different farms in Yuma, miles apart. The FDA even published a chart of the "traceback" pattern, just to show people how complicated it was. It was particularly frustrating, Ostroff says, "because it makes our job infinitely more difficult, in terms of explaining what happened."

"Farmers know that they have to do something different, Alameda says. They're going to make sure lettuce fields are farther away from the cattle. Some farmers will start treating their irrigation water with chlorine to kill the bacteria, like drinking water." 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/08/29/642646707/investigators-track-contaminated-lettuce-outbreak-to-a-cattle-feedlot

 

 

 

[Coco]

11 hours ago, Meggo said:

On the flip side- I'm in Canada - marveling at how I've never paid one penny for my sons eye appointments, his month long stay in the NICU at birth (which would probably have either hit his lifetime cap or given him a pre-existing condition in the US), 98% of his speech therapy (we did pay one therapist for a few weeks on our own - over the summer), his OT (which, okay - is through school). He's about to start therapy to help him with his anger - and that is allllll covered. 

I know a single mom of two kids, one who is about 4 and has had a few heart surgeries, who is about to have surgery herself. And while she's certainly not rolling in dough (although - ha ha - she works at a pizza place so - ha ha!) - she's not thinking "food for my kids, roof over their heads or medical care"). She likely had to wait for her surgery (not clear on what it is - but I didn't get the impression it was at all life threatening). And we DID need to wait a few months for an appointment to see the counselor we're starting with soon. But... what a relief. 

And small business? how nice it is to know that you COULD pay for extra health care for your employees if you start a new business - but that everyone has the basics covered anyway. 

We have to wait for specialist openings too. We just pay out the wazoo while waiting.