Dillards 81: Volunteering for God

[OHFL2009]

33 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

That all said, I totally get it that having 20 plates on hand is likely unreasonable for most people. I used to host a lot of family dinners and potlucks because I had a big rental house and we had 20+ china plates, all cobbled together from thrift stores and former roommates. Did they match? Nope. Did anyone care? Nope. Was it relatively easy to clean up, especially with a dishwasher and one or two helpful friends? Yes!

My great-grandfather was a jeweler in a town small enough that the jewelry store was also the fine china store. To this day our family holidays are served on the mishmash of sample pieces he collected over the years. Some patterns we have a dinner plate, bread plate, cup, saucer, and bowl, but most we just have a couple random pieces. Everyone has their own favorite pattern that they think of as "their" plate. 

[Aoife]

@OHFL2009 I realise that it wasn't planned, but I love the idea of the mismatched crockery where people can have their own preferred pattern. It's brilliant.

 

 

[Nargus]

9 hours ago, Aoife said:

@OHFL2009 I realise that it wasn't planned, but I love the idea of the mismatched crockery where people can have their own preferred pattern. It's brilliant.

 

 

I'm also thinking that it would make for a beautifully eclectic table setup.

[indianabones]

On 12/16/2019 at 7:47 AM, Exposedknees said:

While Jinger seems at ease outside the Dugbubble;  Jill seems desperate to get back in... look at her constant posts over the most inane things, and commenting on EVERYTHING her siblings post.

To play the devil's advocate, she comments on every Instagram post from everyone she follows. And Anna does the same thing. They seem to use Instagram like most people would use Facebook.

I truly think that Jill has become less enmeshed with her parents for the better. While it was most definitely because of Derick, we know that she still spends time with her (adult) siblings but way less than she used to (she's definitely not at the TTH every day like Jessa or Anna). We also know that she has a good circle of friends who she isn't related to. While I'm sure she wishes that her husband and parents were on better terms, I don't see her pining for the way things used to be- well, apart from the TLC income, that is!

[Pretzel]

5 hours ago, indianabones said:

To play the devil's advocate, she comments on every Instagram post from everyone she follows. And Anna does the same thing. They seem to use Instagram like most people would use Facebook.

Is that a bad thing? I'd assume that most of their acquaintances with public profiles, or even those with private ones but which are friends with Jill, would post stuff and expect people to comment. I thought the whole point of sharing stuff on SM is for other people to see and recognize it? So Jill does exactly what SM is there for, isn't she? She's also one of the few people in their circles who actually comments on stuff like Sierra's desperation posts and has a few words of encouragement left for her. I think it's less Jill desperately wanting back into the spotlight (I think she could easily have that if she wanted to) and more her trying to keep contact with people. I don't think that's a bad thing or especially snarkworthy. Jill is a people person who likes to meet new people and "fellowship" (ugh!) with family and friends. It's okay to be like that as much as it is okay to be an introvert. If it's true that there's a rift between the Duggar HQ and the Dillards, it's understandable that Jill still wants to keep contact with siblings and in-laws. It's her right to make sure she is not forgotten or getting lost in the middle. 

Also, Jill has been seen reading books about relationships and boundaries. Given how she grew up and had to live until she finally married and moved out (for instance, having to forgive her abuser and keep living with him), it's also perfectly understandable that it would take her some time to figure out what she wants out of life and how she wants her relationships to be like, and where her boundaries are. 

Eventually, I guess the Dillards will have another one or two kids but I doubt it'll be more than 3 or 4 total. I hope she'll have a girl after all just for her to see that girls don't have to mean all frilly bows and arts and crafts and homemaking. I know Jill's been getting criticism for trying so heavily to convince everyone that she is a happy #BOYMOM, but I think that's mostly her trying to adapt to the realities of her life and also partly her trying to be who and what the boys need her to be. I think that having a girl will eventually get her to make peace with having been a #BOYMOM first. Her daughter might not be at all what she envisioned and she'll see that one kid might love to do the artsy, crafty, homely things and is more of a follower and the other kids (or all of them, really) might be more active, outgoing, playful and everyone marching to the beat of their own drum. Maybe motherhood has turned out to be completely different from what she imagined. It's okay to say two kids is more than enough, and to get used to being the mom of "just"* two. 

**you know you've spent too much time on FJ if two kids seems like nothing. LOL

Edited December 19, 2019 by Pretzel

[breakfree]

I don't think we have any real basis to speculate on how Jill feels about her current situation. In her belief system she doesn't have a choice. Her husband decides and she must follow. She could well pine for her life before.

 

I do agree that even with Dwreck being as awful as he is she's objectively better off (and her kids will certainly be much better off) away from or at least further from the influence of her parents and her birth family at large and exposed to some of the more secular ideas that Dwreck is clearly comfortable with. But that doesn't have anything to do with how Jill feels. 

 

As just one example it's obvious now that Dwreck is not and has no intention of being QF. It's possible he never had such an intention; it's also possible he was chugging the Kool-Aid and mercifully stopped.

 

It's tempting to think or at least hope Jill has also stopped chugging the Kool-Aid on this particular point. She's had difficult births and obviously really greatly struggles with being a SAHM to 2. You'd hope she's thinking, at least in some level, that she's grateful she hasn't already risked her life twice more to have 4 kids under 5 at this point. But who can say? Unlike Dwreck we know she was at one point genuinely committed to QF. Who could forget her gleefully telling JB on her wedding day she may have more than 19 kids? Who could forget her telling the doctor he has to stitch her up really well after her csection? Who could forget her excitement in pregnancy and her DESPERATE hope for a VBAC? Recently wasn't there a video of D saying she'd not be pregnant by the end of this year and her saying he didn't know that? I think it's at least as likely Jill is at a minimum greatly conflicted about he unexpectedly small family as that she's grateful.

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

18 hours ago, OHFL2009 said:

My great-grandfather was a jeweler in a town small enough that the jewelry store was also the fine china store. To this day our family holidays are served on the mishmash of sample pieces he collected over the years. Some patterns we have a dinner plate, bread plate, cup, saucer, and bowl, but most we just have a couple random pieces. Everyone has their own favorite pattern that they think of as "their" plate. 

I love that! I love the mismatch aesthetic, possibly because I'm cheap and used to volunteer at a thrift store. All the patterns!!

[SassyPants]

In the current moment, I think Jill really struggles with the fact that her husband has to be away from their home for many hours a day, leaving her to care for the boys on her own. This is a very foreign idea for Jill and not the reality for other families within the Duggar fold. No matter how much some talk about jobs ( used car lots, towing services, rental maintenance, volunteer constabulary or firefighter, student, PT homeschool teacher), I don’t believe that any of the other dads are away on a mandated, structured schedule similar to Derick's. 

The Dillards are living a more traditional life. In most families at least 1 adult spends the bulk of the day away from the home, and even if they are at home physically, they are working to earn a living. Again, this is a foreign lifestyle for a Duggar. From her IG postings, Jill presents as someone who really struggles with the realities of flying solo in parenting the boys, caring for the home, providing meals and keeping the boys occupied. She does NOT present as a person who would/could easily deal with a household of kids. Also, no matter how uncomfortable Jill is, the abrupt change in their lifestyle and path, I do think she will be far better off in the long run. We live in a big, interesting world, and there is so much to learn, see and experience beyond having baby after baby that you can not solely support or healthfully nurture. Dillard is an asshat, but separating  his family from Counting On and phasing out JB and M’s limitations and tenets were positive moves for his family, no matter Jill’s initial pains and struggles.

Edited December 19, 2019 by SassyPants

[PennySycamore]

48 minutes ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I love that! I love the mismatch aesthetic, possibly because I'm cheap and used to volunteer at a thrift store. All the patterns!!

And it's very much of the moment and has been for a number of years.  

[Pretzel]

@SassyPants I think keeping two active boys under the age of 5 occupied from early morning till the other parent comes home later in the evening would be exhausting for any stay at home parent. It's not just Jill, or her needing Derick to be there 24/7. I don't even think she is as clingy as people make her out to be. It's just a lot of work, even with "just" two kids and if anything, the reality of two kids being exhausting enough and her family always making it seem as if two was nothing and should be NBD, is a bit hard on Jill these days. 

We have no idea about the Dillards' finances (and frankly, I don't care much) but I think if they had more money, a private Christian school and pre-school for the boys could be a possibility. I don't see Derick as the die-hard home school advocate some of the others might be. He's certainly something else...but I think he likes school and their kids are the most likely to ever go to a real school. Childcare might just be a bit too expensive for them at the moment, but there are several Christian schools in their area. We'll see what happens when and if Derick actually finishes law school and gets himself a real job.

If SamSam and Izzy were out of the house at least a few hours/day, Jill would be more relaxed and could have some time to herself to organize whatever has remained unorganized in her life. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Pretzel

[Glasgowghirl]

I don't think it was just Derick that made Jill realise her parent's way was not the only way. I think she partly came to that realisation herself. Jill was the one who did everything that was asked of her by her parents, seemed to enjoy helping out more than some of the other girls and would tatle on her siblings who did wrong, she believed that if she was the perfect Christian then everything would be perfect. Once she got married and moved to Central America, I think she realised how unprepared for married life and how sheltered she was, she met through Cross Church people who had similar beliefs to her, who didn't get pregnant as soon as the delivered each time, were able to wear jeans and get piercings if they chose and she began to embrace that. 

[ati_escapee]

43 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

@SassyPants I think keeping two active boys under the age of 5 occupied from early morning till the other parent comes home later in the evening would be exhausting for any stay at home parent. It's not just Jill, or her needing Derick to be there 24/7. I don't even think she is as clingy as people make her out to be. It's just a lot of work, even with "just" two kids and if anything, the reality of two kids being exhausting enough and her family always making it seem as if two was nothing and should be NBD, is a bit hard on Jill these days. 

We have no idea about the Dillards' finances (and frankly, I don't care much) but I think if they had more money, a private Christian school and pre-school for the boys could be a possibility. I don't see Derick as the die-hard home school advocate some of the others might be. He's certainly something else...but I think he likes school and their kids are the most likely to ever go to a real school. Childcare might just be a bit too expensive for them at the moment, but there are several Christian schools in their area. We'll see what happens when and if Derick actually finishes law school and gets himself a real job.

If SamSam and Izzy were out of the house at least a few hours/day, Jill would be more relaxed and could have some time to herself to organize whatever has remained unorganized in her life. 

I've been curious about their finances if they are not longer being paid by JB/TLC. 

I know this is wishful thinking, but public school could be a good option for them too. I don't know exactly where they live, but a lot of the public schools in the area are fantastic. 

I feel sorry for Jill because not everyone is cut out to be a stay-at-home parent and that's all she is "supposed" to be. I think it's fine to stay at home if that's what you want, but it's not for everyone. I have three kids and although they're all in school now, the first few years were really hard. I primarily work from home (no, not an MLM lol) so it was REALLY hard taking care of kids and trying to work. I think it must be hard for Jill too, as someone who thinks it's the right thing to do, or their only option. 

[breakfree]

I actually think there's a real possibility her kids could go to public school. I do not see Dwreck allowing her to homeschool them past a certain age. For all his bad qualities I think we have a lot of evidence at this point that he's pro education, at least for boys/men,  and I don't think he's delusional enough to think Jill could adequately educate their kids. I do think they'd prefer a Christian school and even that it's possible one reason he's limiting their family size is to increase their chances of being able to afford one, but I think he'd opt for public school over Jill/nothing. 

[kmachete14]

I think Derick was disgusted by Jill's codependency on her father and her tendency to ask permission for every little thing. He wants a submissive wife, but not to the degree that Jill was brainwashed into believing he would, nor to the degree JB mandated of Jill. Jill has made many posts about not treating your husband like your father, and seemed to have trouble adjusting to the fact that she was, in fact, an adult. I think if they had a daughter, Derick would want to make sure she had *some* independence and education, so she wouldn't be as woefully inept as Jill. 

[SassyPants]

I feel confident in saying that the Dillard boys will be raised more similarly to how he and Dan were raised VS how Jill Duggar was raised. DD does not present as being anti-education or operating from an isolationist mentality. 

Perhaps if Cathy had not been fighting for her life at the exact time that Jill and Derick started courting, maybe she could have steered things in a different direction. I really wonder what Cathy thinks about the Duggars and the decisions that they have made. 

While I do not share DD’s beliefs, I do applaud some of his decisions: furthering his education, limiting his family size to date, eliminating the show and his kids’ media exposure, attending a brick and mortar more moderate church, modeling his parents’ tenets VS JB and M’s, and seemingly exposing Jill to a more moderate style of living,  plus aiding her to make more independent personal decisions ( pants, shorts, tank tops and nose ring to name a few).

[breakfree]

38 minutes ago, kmachete14 said:

I think Derick was disgusted by Jill's codependency on her father and her tendency to ask permission for every little thing. He wants a submissive wife, but not to the degree that Jill was brainwashed into believing he would, nor to the degree JB mandated of Jill. 

Absolutely. He does want a wife who will obey him, without hesitation or question, when he wants to be obeyed but I think he was shocked and indeed probably appalled/disgusted at the reality of Jill's total dependency once they married. I think he was not only prepared to but expected to be able to give her near complete agency over many many aspects of her/their life and really did expect that in day to day living, while she'd submit when told/if they diasgreed, they'd really be operating FAR more like partners in charge of different domains than Jill was/is able to.

There are countless things I think he assumed she'd be able to deal with herself without issue or any interference from him that she obviously wasn't able to and in some cases still isn't, though I do think it seems she's made progress. This includes stuff from simply being alone for periods of time, to making decisions about nearly anything even in the domain of house and home without explicit guidance to even what to watch or listen to it how to dress. In short he thought he was marrying an adult who could do some (critical) thinking even if limited and she thought she was getting someone who would tell her exactly what to do and think every hour of her life.

I do think actually she seems to have come a long way though she obviously had a long way to go. 

I honestly hope you're right about if they have daughters. I sadly would not be surprised if he wants/expects something different from a daughter than he did from a wife, but hopefully he'll at least make sure she can make decisions on her own about trivial matters. Even that would be better than what Jill got.

[LacyMay]

I wonder how much of Jill's (alleged) co-dependency was also just her personality though? We talk about how we think she treated Derick like her father and required a lot of guidance and support in making decisions. But I'm inclined to believe that at least some of that was a product of her individual personality and not just the environment she was brought up in. Certainly the environment had something to do with it but when you look at Jessa she didn't appear to struggle as much with these issues and while I think Ben is definitely the "head" of their household I do think that she has some level of agency. Same with Joy and Austin while I think Austin is very much the token headship I do think he values Joy as a partner. We certainly haven't seen anything indicating that those two struggled with relying on their husband the same way they would a parent. 

Arguably we've even speculated that Michelle has more agency within the home than is publicly let on. 

I think more likely Jill was/is more demure by nature and her upbringing really fed into that creating a vicious cycle (she starts as quiet/demure/submissive -> Sees her father and older brother who appear to like being treated as supreme authorities > becomes more of what she was) 

I do think that getting away from the Duggerborg is a good thing *IF* that's what Jill wants (otherwise I think Derick is a dick for isolating her from her family when she wants or desires that support and connection. Even if he thinks that distance is in her best interest.) And I do think that his value on education will benefit the #littledillards. Both of which are steps in the right direction. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

20 minutes ago, LacyMay said:

Arguably we've even speculated that Michelle has more agency within the home than is publicly let on. 

I know I've said this many times before, but I absolutely believe Michelle wears the metaphorical pants in that family to the degree that JB is headship for the public only.

[mango_fandango]

I feel like Jill would want at least one daughter, like Jessa, that she can give the middle name Michelle to. But I don’t see her having a huge number of kids. 

[acheronbeach]

17 hours ago, breakfree said:

I actually think there's a real possibility her kids could go to public school. I do not see Dwreck allowing her to homeschool them past a certain age. For all his bad qualities I think we have a lot of evidence at this point that he's pro education, at least for boys/men,  

(Snip)

 Derick's mom has a couple degrees and is the most educated one in her family right now IIRC. Derick and Jill both seem quite close to her. Derick also implied Jill had attended college.

I don't think he's opposed to education for girls.   Just the opposite - it looks like he may be a bit embarrassed by Jill's woeful education. 

[Glasgowghirl]

6 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

 Derick's mom has a couple degrees and is the most educated one in her family right now IIRC. Derick and Jill both seem quite close to her. Derick also implied Jill had attended college.

I don't think he's opposed to education for girls.   Just the opposite - it looks like he may be a bit embarrassed by Jill's woeful education. 

Jill seems to turn to Cathy for babysitting and advice before Jim Bob and Michelle, while her parents still have children at home and more grandchildren, I still think it's telling that she will call on her mother in law before her mother. 

I also see the children going to at least a Christian school for later year's education. 

[RainbowSky]

1 hour ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Jill seems to turn to Cathy for babysitting and advice before Jim Bob and Michelle, while her parents still have children at home and more grandchildren, I still think it's telling that she will call on her mother in law before her mother. 

I also see the children going to at least a Christian school for later year's education. 

Could be telling or she could figure that she knows what her own mom would say, maybe seeing what someone else would say would be helpful? Or her mom is busy so as someone without 383 family members traipsing through their house on a given day?

[VBOY9977]

Jill cut her hair. She looks good! Her longer hair really washed her down.

https://www.dillardfamily.com/2019/12/i-got-my-hair-chopped-off/

 

If you don’t want to give them clicks

Before and After: 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by VBOY9977

[lil_secret]

Holy shit Jill cut her hair to a normal length.

[therulesofjinx]

Just now, VBOY9977 said:

Jill cut her hair. She looks good

I was just typing the same thing when you posted! I'm interested to see what organization she chooses to donate to. I've heard some are much better than others, but have never done the actual research myself. I agree- she looks great.