Andrea Mills of YouTube infamy Had Cancer and Died

[onlythetruth]

CORE BELIEFS

* Tom and Andrea believe in pretermism.

* That means that all go to heaven. So I must agree with this? That means Hitler will be there. Those who caused 9/11 will be there. Sorry I cannot believe in this core belief

* Tom says his style is preaching and that Andrea did preach but subtly. They upheld that it does not matter what you eat you are still going to die. They eat all the wrong food and put this up on YouTube.  This means we are powerless over anything that happens to us. Is their preaching style right?

* They believe that Jesus is not coming again and that He came in the 1st century. That means that the vast majority of Christians have it wrong and that they are the only ones who are right

* There is no hell and no one will go to such a place as hell. We will all go straight to heaven. I have a huge problem with this because that means we are 'free' to kill, steal, lie and cause havoc; without consequences

I would need to 'let go' of the knowledge of AA, NA, Al-Anon, Grow and the Bible to accept this. It is so easy to simply follow what is said without looking into the true person and what they believe. Not to mention doctors, health professionals and believe that they are wrong and the Mills are right

So tell me is karma also wrong? Are Buddhists wrong too? Is the Bible wrong when it teaches that we reap what we sow? A growing adult takes responsibility and accountability for their actions. Immature adults look to lay blame somewhere. Tom said: God can do what He likes". It seemed he simply laid it on God. Now Andrea is resting in sleep and there is nothing I can do to change that. But I can 'share' knowledge that we are not powerless and that we are asked to make good choices. 

Tom refuses to allow anyone to post on Andrea's site or his site if it does not agree with his worldview. A mature, healthy adult allows for debate and they also know that they have much to learn from others. Dictatorship is not healthy and an attitude of "I'm okay, you're not okay' is not the way to go. The Truth is: I'm okay, you're okay. 

I am so very heartbroken that these precious children of God must believe that Andrea was powerless over her life and that she could do nothing to prevent dying so young. Yes we all will eventually die - this will come after we have 'fallen asleep' in God. A day of account will come for all mankind after this. The Bible is clear that we sleep in the dust of the earth till either the first resurrection or the resurrection of damnation. At least that is what the Bible says of which Tom and Andrea adhere to. That is also open to debate.

The truth is that inflammatory breast cancer has be proven to be caused by obesity among other things. That is fact. I had a wonderful friend who was the best nurse I have ever met. She was 29 years of age and with two small children. She was obese and she said: I did this to myself and I need to take accountability for my poor choices. This she shared with many, many people and said: Don't think that obesity will not kill when the truth is otherwise. She was a very wise young woman. She did not blame herself  which would have caused depression. She took accountability and used this power to teach others.  

 

[thoughtful]

I'll add one more facet to the answers @onlythetruth is getting.

FJ has thousands of members. Anyone over 18 can join, and we vary in beliefs and opinions. So, "you people all believe the same thing" accusations don't hold water.

But I think it's fair to say the majority here have some definite slants. Being concerned about the dangers of fundamentalism is the obvious one. I could be wrong (I don't read every thread -- who can?), but I think the majority here are feminist, against bigotry, in favor of children being treated well and educated - there are a few themes you'll see frequently here.

And one of those themes is being in favor of good science and healthcare. A lot of us get very frustrated with people who use prayer, Plexus, essential oils or black salve instead of real medical care and good nutrition and habits. There is definitely not an anti-medical-care slant to FJ.

I'm not sure why a series of posts about cancer being hard to predict and prevent made you want to come here and post, and why it seems to have made you think those posters, or maybe most of us, are against preventative care. It seems like this is the only thread you've read.

Maybe you've lurked and read for a while, but I'm doubting that you have read the threads about Lori Alexander, Zsu Anderson, Jill Rodrigues, the Pearls, "no epi Seppi," or Emily and Dan (who am I forgetting in the anti-vax, anti-doctor, weird food theories offenders, folks?).

"Stop using woo and get that child/yourself to a doctor!" is a common theme around here, as is "feed those poor children some protein and vegetables" (and, on the flip side "the diet you think is so magical won't cure that condition") and "God may love you, but that alone won't save your life."

Believe me, people on FJ speak up when the isolation or beliefs of the people we discuss keeps them from getting medical care.

It just doesn't seem to apply to this situation.

ETA - onlythetruth - you I were typing at the same time, so I didn't see your latest post.

I advise to you to read other things on this site, especially the basic stuff, or at least the earlier parts of this thread. Some of what you've said sounds like you think we all believe the same things as Tom and Andrea, or that this is some sort of Mills fansite. That is not the case.

Edited September 8, 2019 by thoughtful

[ViolaSebastian]

I have never, in my six years on this site, seen someone even remotely suggest to anyone that any user has to have the same beliefs as the fundies we follow. 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[formergothardite]

16 minutes ago, onlythetruth said:

So I must agree with this?

I'm confused why would you have to believe that? I sure as hell don't and I bet lots of other members don't either. 

16 minutes ago, onlythetruth said:

This means we are powerless over anything that happens to us.

Sometimes we are. It would be nice to think we could control everything, but we can't. Sometimes, you can try your best and get fucked. And sometimes you can not give a shit and end up just fine. That is life. 

19 minutes ago, onlythetruth said:

That means that the vast majority of Christians have it wrong and that they are the only ones who are right

Why? 

19 minutes ago, onlythetruth said:

There is no hell and no one will go to such a place as hell. We will all go straight to heaven. I have a huge problem with this because that means we are 'free' to kill, steal, lie and cause havoc; without consequences

Or we could believe there is no heaven or hell and that we shouldn't kill, steal, lie and cause havoc because that is hurting others. You don't have to but you also don't have to believe Hitler is in heaven. 

21 minutes ago, onlythetruth said:

Is the Bible wrong when it teaches that we reap what we sow?

If this was true then a lot of nasty people would die in jail, not in their mansions. Sadly people can sow evil and get away with it. But if you want to believe that is true then by all means do so. 

So what is your solution for all those women who can't afford the medical care and access to healthy food your privilege provides you? Are they just selfish who aren't taking responsibility for their lives?

[Caroline]

2 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

I haven't clicked on the links provided by @onlythetruth but I'm a scientist and my bet is the link is crap. People like you don't understand probability. Eating healthy reduces the probability you'll get sick but your risk is never zero.

The other thing is cancer is a mindfuck of guilt. My mom got breast cancer and wracked her brain trying to figure out what she did wrong. She breastfed and lost a bunch of weight and she still got it. It took her a long time to accept that she didn't necessarily do anything wrong.

I wonder of @onlythetruth feels the same way about women who have unexplained miscarriage?

When it happened to me my first reaction was that I had probably done something wrong.  Then I came to my senses, did some research, and discovered that miscarriage happens for no obvious reason in 25 percent of cases.

No need to feel guilty about things we can't control.  (I was able to get pregnant again three months later and that baby is 22 years old  now )

 

[feministxtian]

my husband died a week and a half ago. He suffered and conquered a couple of serious diseases before his death at the hands of an incompetent oncologist. He was 57. 

My grandparents: My father's mother died at 80. She essentially starved herself to death because she couldn't bear to live w/o my grandfather who had died 3 years earlier. He was 80-ish. Both drank, smoked, lived life to the fullest...they ate rich foods (Germans don't "eat healthy"). My mother's mother died in her mid-late 80s. From what I know her kidneys failed. My mother's father died in his 90's. They were cuban...also known for smoking, drinking, eating whatever the hell they want and forget that exercise shit. My father was 70. He died due to chemical and metal dust exposure in the days before OSHA. My mother was 78. My aunt was 95. 

"Living healthy" is nice but I am a firm believer in genetics. I'm 55, a bit overweight, don't eat healthy (right now don't eat much at all) and according to my HONEST TO GOD doctor and lab work, I probably have another 25-30 years ahead of me. No signs of type 2 diabetes, low blood pressure, everything else is dead nuts normal. 

So...all this bullshit about "living healthy" is just that...I could get run over by a bus tomorrow. I'd rather go out having enjoyed my ice cream, sodas, occasional booze, doing really stupid shit on a regular basis. I die, I die. I live, I live. Either way I'm going to fucking enjoy myself. 

 

[Caroline]

2 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

my husband died a week and a half ago. He suffered and conquered a couple of serious diseases before his death at the hands of an incompetent oncologist. He was 57. 

My grandparents: My father's mother died at 80. She essentially starved herself to death because she couldn't bear to live w/o my grandfather who had died 3 years earlier. He was 80-ish. Both drank, smoked, lived life to the fullest...they ate rich foods (Germans don't "eat healthy"). My mother's mother died in her mid-late 80s. From what I know her kidneys failed. My mother's father died in his 90's. They were cuban...also known for smoking, drinking, eating whatever the hell they want and forget that exercise shit. My father was 70. He died due to chemical and metal dust exposure in the days before OSHA. My mother was 78. My aunt was 95. 

"Living healthy" is nice but I am a firm believer in genetics. I'm 55, a bit overweight, don't eat healthy (right now don't eat much at all) and according to my HONEST TO GOD doctor and lab work, I probably have another 25-30 years ahead of me. No signs of type 2 diabetes, low blood pressure, everything else is dead nuts normal. 

So...all this bullshit about "living healthy" is just that...I could get run over by a bus tomorrow. I'd rather go out having enjoyed my ice cream, sodas, occasional booze, doing really stupid shit on a regular basis. I die, I die. I live, I live. Either way I'm going to fucking enjoy myself. 

 

I'm so sorry about the loss of your husband.  Take care of yourself right now, and I hope you have friends and family you can lean on.  

[FecundFundieFundus]

Thinking of you & sending internet love, @feministxtian. I'm very sorry. The only thing I can ever think of to say is "that sucks" but it sounds like an understatement. That's how I sum up grief in my head: it all sucks. I hope you have support and love. 

---

I utilized the handy dandy ignore function, but I do gather we've turned to religious beliefs slash religion being the moral basis for humans. I'm an atheist, was raised more or less agnostic/humanist and have not only never killed, raped or stolen from anyone*, I've never considered doing so. Humans are a mixed bag no matter their creed. 

 

*A lapse in high school when I was trying to fit in notwithstanding. I still feel guilty about it even though I loathe and boycott that corporation today. 

[jozina]

Ah, inflammatory breast cancer. It felt mean speculating but from my professional experience I was dubious it was cholangiocarcinoma given how quickly she went from developing jaundice to dying. It is a very aggressive cancer but not that aggressive and jaundice is usually an early sign. I thought it had to be a widespread malignancy with liver mets given how quickly she went downhill.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

So, I did that. And this is what I found, on the Mayo Clinic website. The Mayo Clinic is highly respected in the United States.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/inflammatory-breast-cancer/symptoms-causes/syc-20355413

Maybe I'm missing something here, but wasn't it established that Andrea's mother died of the same, quite rare, cancer? I don't think you need to be Sherlock Jesus Holmes to attribute this to genetic factors.

No, I think her husband is speculating her mother had the same type of cancer, but what he said doesn't really make sense from a medical perspective. He said that her mother had lung cancer which had spread to the bones, brain etc and was found between her lungs. Anatomically your breast tissue is not between your lungs. If it was truly between the lungs it'd be some kind of mediastinal cancer.  Oncologists don't tend to jump from "between the lungs" to "lung cancer". Inflammatory breast cancer also isn't a particularly heritable cancer. Genetic factors like the BRCA genes which increase your risk of breast cancer in general increase your risk of inflammatory breast cancer, but that's just because they increase your risk of breast cancer as a whole. There's no known gene specific for inflammatory breast cancer, and not much in the way of proof of a strong family link either.

Not that it's their job to educate the masses, but I cringed hard at him saying inflammatory breast cancer has no signs. It does - swelling, redness, skin changes. It's more visibly obvious on a casual review than ductal carcinomas/the most common type of breast cancer, which are more felt on examination in the early stages. Inflammatory breast cancer is aggressive and spreads early on, but the median survival is still nearly 2 years for stage 4 cancer.  It's awful seeing videos like the one where she made some kind of balm for her back pain. Such a shame it wasn't identified earlier.  And yes lots of things can make lymph nodes go up, but if they've been up for a while, are big enough to be visible on a You Tube video then it's time for a professional to assess what's going on.

[Curious]

2 hours ago, mollysmom said:

What are the chances that @onlythetruth and @Jody are the same people? 2 ridiculous trolls, very similar to each other both in the same week. Wtf is wrong with these people? 

It's just our time I guess.  I find no reason to think they are the same person or they'd both be gone already.

These things tend to ebb and flow.  We are just at high tide right now between these two and the ridiculous subreddit 

[Curious]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I have never, in my six years on this site, seen someone even remotely suggest to anyone that any user has to have the same beliefs as the fundies we follow. 

 

Frankly, it'd be pretty weird if someone did suggest that and I can't imagine the pushback that would get given we exist to speak about the dangers of those beliefs...

[feministxtian]

39 minutes ago, Curious said:

Frankly, it'd be pretty weird if someone did suggest that and I can't imagine the pushback that would get given we exist to speak about the dangers of those beliefs...

There's a whole range of beliefs around here...Why can't these "outsiders" understand that FJ-er's are NOT some monolithic bunch of clones? And, I seriously doubt there are any hard core fundies here...

[FecundFundieFundus]

33 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

 And, I seriously doubt there are any hard core fundies here...

Don't jinx it! I want to experience a Fundie Friday ? Personally hoping for a Rod or Sierra. Or Sierra's husband- oooh DO I HAVE SOME WORDS FOR HIM. 

[feministxtian]

8 minutes ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

Don't jinx it! I want to experience a Fundie Friday ? Personally hoping for a Rod or Sierra. Or Sierra's husband- oooh DO I HAVE SOME WORDS FOR HIM. 

Not as regular, participating members of this wonderful sisterhood. Beliefs range from Atheism to Jews to generic Christian to Orthodox...yet we all get along and don't seem to fight about beliefs. We all manage to find common ground and don't push beliefs on anyone else. The simple RESPECT here is insanely wonderful and peaceful. 

[Aine]

On 8/30/2019 at 9:42 AM, Palimpsest said:

I live in the North East of the US where Lyme has been prevalent for years.  I've had Lyme and so has Mr. P.  Presented with these symptoms, I think most MDs would immediately think of Lyme here.    We are very careful about tick prevention (long pants tucked into socks and Deet) when walking in woody areas.  We also do a careful tick check every single time we come back from a walk in the woods. 

But Lyme occurs all over the US these days and it is the most common TBD.  If you have the symptoms and have been anywhere near an area likely to have tick infestations, tell your  MD that immediately and insist on the test.   You don't always see the classic bulls-eye rash.

However, the Lyme test isn't terribly accurate and you can get false negatives.  The newest test is supposed to be better.  Around here drs are quite likely to give a prophylactic course of antibiotics presented with those symptoms.  MMV on that.  But don't immediately think of Lyme and insist on the test and antibiotics if you have been nowhere near a tick and flu is more likely.

There is a podcast, about 3-4 episodes into the season, called 'Patient Zero' from New Hampshire Public Radio about Lyme Disease and it's so well done. Not alarmist or dismissive, it really looks at how Lyme has become a "catch-all" (I know that has been discussed regarding some SAHDs in the fundie world) but how so many still go undiagnosed due to the testing and various things. I think it still has a way to go but it has been fascinating so far and very fair. 

My first exposure to the reality of Lyme Disease was living in Wisconsin at 18 and teaching horse riding for the girl scouts. I have never seen the amount of ticks that could get on you as there. I grew up in rural areas, I've always been outdoorsy, but I swear I could be out and not even consciously "in the woods" and take my jeans and shirt off to find 15+ ticks on me some days after only a couple of hours. I was instructed to put every tick I found on me on a piece of clear packing tape, fold it over, sharpie a date on it, and 'file it'. In the case I developed symptoms, they could test the ticks? This was 2007-2008 but it seems the testing isn't a hell of a lot better because it's so difficult to culture the syrochete bacteria that causes Lyme.

But check out the podcast- it does a great job of reporting on how Lyme was recognized, the nature of science (good and bad), and how it has become such a 'catch all' but also elusive on its diagnosis and treatment.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Aine
typo

[Aine]

18 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

A healthy diet and lifestyle is no guarantee against cancer. My cousin ate healthy, didn't drink or smoke, and exercised. She died of breast cancer when she was 38. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for living healthy. It does decrease the risk of cancer and other diseases. But, it's no guarantee.

YES.

Also, @onlythetruth completely misses the point that the vast majority of cancers in children or younger adults arise from a genetic mutation, either random or inherited but there is usually a mutation present and it interferes with tumor suppressors.

I worked at one of the most famous pediatric cancer centers in the world; a place most have heard of, donated to, and provides care for free to patients and families. We had an alarming amount of parents also being diagnosed between the ages of 20-50 because these childhood or young-mid-adult cancers are so often not about lifestyle but genes.

For the same reason no one should hold up their 89-year-old pack-a-day smoker for 65 years great-aunt as an example of cigarettes not being dangerous, no one should hold a 40-something-year-old woman up as bringing an incredibly rare and almost always fatal cancer upon herself.

[Palimpsest]

16 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I have never, in my six years on this site, seen someone even remotely suggest to anyone that any user has to have the same beliefs as the fundies we follow. 

 

I have, but only on Fundie Fridays when the user is a Fundie.

Oops, someone else got there first.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Palimpsest

[hoipolloi]

Had a good friend who died of inflammatory breast cancer (IBC) about 12 years ago. A healthy & active person in her 40s, the first sign she had that something was wrong was literally waking up one morning with a painful, hard sheet-like mass on one side of her chest. There had been no previous symptoms. She went to her doctor right away but was initially treated for an infection, a not-uncommon first diagnosis. The lack of response to antibiotics led to a more extensive investigation, including a biopsy, which confirmed the presence of IBC. 

Sadly, this is the way IBC is diagnosed in many people and the cancer is at an advanced stage at this point. With treatment (chemo & radiation, IIRC), she lived about 2 years after diagnosis. Unfortunately, most if not all mammograms do not pick IBC up at an earlier point, so it is rare for the disease to be diagnosed before it spreads so much. There was no history of IBC or similar cancers in my friend's family.

So, to recap. My friend's choices, genetics, lifestyle, appearance, and religion (or lack thereof) had fucking nothing to do with her becoming ill, as far as anyone knows. 

[Palimpsest]

Well, @onlythetruth is also wrong about Preterism.  I thought they were on shaky ground so I looked it up to be sure.

I don't know whether Tom is a full Preterist, a partial Preterist, very Preterist, hardly Preterist, rather Preterist, a little bit Preterist, or whatever because I've never sat through his sermons on Daniel and Revelation.   But, as far as I can see, Preterists believe in heaven and hell.  You are either in or you are out here on Earth, but after death you go to either heaven or hell.  There's no Hades or Purgatory, that's all.

Preterists believe that the prophesies in Daniel and Revelation, and Jesus in the Olivet discourse have already happened.   Full Preterists believe that the Second Coming happened in 70AD.   But they can argue about the end times until the cows come home.

Tom seemed angry as well as rather depressed in that "New Normal" video.  I didn't watch the whole thing but I think the comments on the youtube channel are getting to him.  He went on a lot about haters, but he also seemed pissed off at some of the probably quite well meaning advice he was getting.  I still think he should have taken a break.  Some of the comments show pretty bad boundaries and some of them are hateful.

He also says that he and Andrea grew into the "same person," that he knew her better than anyone, and he knows exactly what she would want him to do.  I've been happily married for 40 years, Mr. P and I are not the same person (and I wouldn't want us to be), and I probably could guess what I think he would have wanted if he died.    But I wouldn't be quite as "so there" about it.  Nor would I have to be because I wouldn't be rambling on about it on youtube.

He also got rather aggressive about the older children caring for the little ones.  It is what families do, darn it.  The older boys will be able to leave if they want to, and he won't stop them.  Eh, Tom.  By the looks of it they, and especially the very nurturing Asher, won't want to leave the little kids to your exclusive care.  You did manage to change Hannah's diaper, but peel a damn banana before you hand it to a baby. 

So the older boys will probably be stuck at home for years raising their siblings in Andrea's place.  Tom has committed to staying at home on Thursdays to grade their work though.  Youtube income permitting.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Palimpsest

[sdjp123]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Well, @onlythetruth is also wrong about Preterism.  I thought they were on shaky ground so I looked it up to be sure.

I don't know whether Tom is a full Preterist, a partial Preterist, very Preterist, hardly Preterist, rather Preterist, a little bit Preterist, or whatever because I've never sat through his sermons on Daniel and Revelation.   But, as far as I can see, Preterists believe in heaven and hell.  You are either in or you are out here on Earth, but after death you go to either heaven or hell.  There's no Hades or Purgatory, that's all.

Preterists believe that the prophesies in Daniel and Revelation, and Jesus in the Olivet discourse have already happened.   Full Preterists believe that the Second Coming happened in 70AD.   But they can argue about the end times until the cows come home.

Tom seemed angry as well as rather depressed in that "New Normal" video.  I didn't watch the whole thing but I think the comments on the youtube channel are getting to him.  He went on a lot about haters, but he also seemed pissed off at some of the probably quite well meaning advice he was getting.  I still think he should have taken a break.  Some of the comments show pretty bad boundaries and some of them are hateful.

He also says that he and Andrea grew into the "same person," that he knew her better than anyone, and he knows exactly what she would want him to do.  I've been happily married for 40 years, Mr. P and I are not the same person (and I wouldn't want us to be), and I probably could guess what I think he would have wanted if he died.    But I wouldn't be quite as "so there" about it.  Nor would I have to be because I wouldn't be rambling on about it on youtube.

He also got rather aggressive about the older children caring for the little ones.  It is what families do, darn it.  The older boys will be able to leave if they want to, and he won't stop them.  Eh, Tom.  By the looks of it they, and especially the very nurturing Asher, won't want to leave the little kids to your exclusive care.  You did manage to change Hannah's diaper, but peel a damn banana before you hand it to a baby. 

So the older boys will probably be stuck at home for years raising their siblings in Andrea's place.  Tom has committed to staying at home on Thursdays to grade their work though.  Youtube income permitting.

I've always found Tom to come across as rather arrogant in their videos, with the exception of the ones that he filmed when Andrea was in the hospital and directly after her death, so I don't find his reaction to even well meaning advice surprising.

I find Tom's assertion that it is normal for the older children to take over when a parent dies odd as I don't think that either he or Andrea came from families where they were expected to take on as much responsibility as their kids are. I do believe that Tom is being truthful when he says that he will not hold the older children back from leaving, but that is because he expects that Eden and Justus will be able to take over by that point-not because he plans on doing significantly more himself. I wonder if he will expect the children to get outside jobs once they turn 16 so that they can help contribute to the family financially. I wouldn't be surprised if he does. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by sdjp123

[dairyfreelife]

I don't know Tom's income, but there's a Christian school near Gillette that bases tuition on income and number of people in the home. They also offer scholarships for hardship regarding tuition and use the same ACE curriculum as they use. It appears to be a small school. Doubt Tom would want to pay for the tuition, but 8 of the 9 are of age to attend the school (ages 4-Grade 12). It would allow the older children to receive their education while not being obligated to manage the education of their younger siblings.

If Tom insists on trying to have them homeschool, he should be aware if it's too much on the older ones and hopefully be willing to have another option. It's fine for them to help and great they are willing to help, but it's not okay to put the entire burden of raising the younger children on the older boys and Eden. They are still children themselves. Trying to seemingly keep things "normal" and the way things were may not work. Sometimes, when circumstances change, you have to find a new "normal". That new "normal" should not be pushing all the responsibility of a home and childcare and education of everyone on the oldest children. No one should judge Tom if he decides to put the children in either a Christian school or even a public school. If they do, then those are not the kind of people Tom and the children need in their lives. 

As for health and cancer prevention, yes, taking care of yourself can reduce your risks of certain types of cancers. Eating well is good, exercising in moderation is good, reducing stress is good, and they can make you feel better and be healthier. BUT, reducing risk does not equal elimination of risk. You can do everything right and still find yourself sick. Some things just can't be prevented. Of course that doesn't mean no one should bother taking care of themselves. My uncle has liver problems because of heavy drinking for years. My very soon-to-be FIL has liver problems and he doesn't drink at all and never really has. Both of my grandfathers died of lung cancer. One only smoked an occasional cigar in a social setting, but died of lung cancer at age 60. The other lived to just shy of his 78th birthday before dying of emphysema and lung cancer and was a heavy smoker since he was 12. This doesn't mean you should drink heavy because you may have liver problems anyway or that you should smoke anyway because you may still end up with lung cancer. It just means that sometimes life is an asshole. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, dairyfreelife said:

I don't know Tom's income,

I hope Andrea's faithful watchers will correct me if I am wrong, but I vaguely remember that Tom's computer repair service earned him around $65K a year.  They worried a bit when that amount went down.  By most standards it is a reasonable income, many people live on less, but most people do not have as many children.

The GFM is now at $64,657.  It is, and must seem to Tom, a lot of cash.  A year's wages.

Time will tell whether or not Scamaritan refuses to "share" Andrea's medical expenses because Tom put up a GFM.  He may have deniability because he called it a medical and emergency fund.  I rather hope so, but Scamaritan has screwed many people before and may not want to reimburse Tom for Andrea's expenses.

Scamaritan is actually pretty big business.  It seems to work very well for people like the Nathan Maxwells, who have had complicated pregnancies.  It seems to cover expectant moms who want to use midwives (of various levels of competency) very well too.  Babies are big business.

It is not so good on other stuff.  Scamaritan almost certainly has many heartrending medical emergencies and deaths of parents on its books.  It could choose to make an example of Tom.  It could also cave to blackmail from Tom, because he and Andrea are so famous (or notorious) on youtube.

But if it does cave to Tom's fame or notoriety and reimburse after the GFM, why then I hope everyone who has been denied coverage by Scamaritan because they set up a GFM sues the fuck out of Scamaritan.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Palimpsest

[FecundFundieFundus]

Wow, one whole day of teaching a week. Lay off the helicopter parenting, Tom. 

[Briefly]

On 9/7/2019 at 3:01 PM, VVV said:

Anyone who thinks that there is any magic diet, exercise regime, meditation practice, or any other lifestyle modification that will 100% prevent cancer or other serious illness is fucking delusional.

Healthy people get sick. Responsible people get sick. Some smokers live into their 90s.

Good health is not a reward for right choices and disease or death are not punishments for wrong choices. Yes, we can make choices that *affect* us. No, we cannot make choices that *protect* us.

I agree completely VVV.  Healthy people get sick, responsible people get sick.  It happens.  My best friend/sister from other parents lost her 26 year old daughter to a fast moving cancer.  The 26 year old left three young children.  She was a healthy person, she did what she could to stay healthy.  She still got cancer and she still died.  My friend was shattered. We all were.

21 hours ago, Curious said:

It's just our time I guess.  I find no reason to think they are the same person or they'd both be gone already.

These things tend to ebb and flow.  We are just at high tide right now between these two and the ridiculous subreddit 

I wondered about that as well.  Some people have more than one email address and many people have access to more than one computer.  I would think that it could be easily done, and I got some serious same-ness vibes about that.

[Glasgowghirl]

I feel horrible for those children, the older ones are obviously having to do a lot more around the house, the younger ones may not fully comprehend what has happened. 

I watched Teen Mom a couple of weeks ago and it had a scene where Mackenzie and Josh sat down their children and were trying to explain that Mackenzie's mum's cancer had spread and that she wasn't going to get better, their oldest child, Gannon asked what would happen then and his facial expressions suggested that he wanted to know if she would die but couldn't bring himself to say it. Mackenzie and Josh held it together well and told them that their grandmother would go to sleep and be with Jesus and that they should make the most of the time they had left with her. I watched it just when I read about Andrea dying and it set me off thinking of her poor children.

People could have the worst diet and lifestyle and live to old age and some people can have a good lifestyle and diet and die young. Cancer can happen to anyone, a year ago this week my sister's friend lost her 17 year old son to spine cancer, he had it when he was around 12 went into remission and then it came back a few years later and he was told it was terminal he tried every treatment and remedy available, even went to Lourdes, not that he expected to be cured at Lourdes but was willing to try anything. Coming here and telling people that they need to work on their lifestyle to stop cancer, is not going to win you friends, of course people need to work on being healthier but it's not that simple and won't cure all chances of people dying from diseases or illnesses. Phil O'Donnell, a footballer I met a few times, was fit and healthy and captain of Motherwell when he collapsed and died during a game.