Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I feel bad for Joy and Austin, but something just jars me about the photos. There is the black and white one of him leaning over her in the bed. It is a perfectly composed study in light and shadow, and grief. Who composed that shot? The PEOPLE photographer?

If Joy and Austin want to let the PEOPLE photographer in on their most anguished minutes of life, it's on them to be criticized. Are they helping others by showing this, or are they making money from it? It is possible that a few people are comforted by this, but I remain unconvinced.

And if Joy and Austin are coerced into letting PEOPLE in at this time, but can't deny them, then SHAME on those who coerced them.

Unpopular opinion, I know. I'll see myself to the prayer closet now... and I will pray for them to be comforted.

I share your likely unpopular opinions and more so, concerns. I doubt this is all on Joy and Austin, and that makes me sad for all concerned. We know plenty about who and what controls this group.

It seems crazy that seemingly nothing is above being possibly exploited.

[outtheblue]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

They did not send those to the magazine. The magazine took the photos and information off of their Instagram. I highly doubt they’re sitting around right now thinking about the best way to cash in on their daughter’s death and I find it really disgusting that this is what people are implying by comments like this. 

I keep seeing these comments in the Facebook groups and it's irritating the hell out of me...I don't want to have to defend the Duggars but in this case I feel the need to.

 

5 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I feel bad for Joy and Austin, but something just jars me about the photos. There is the black and white one of him leaning over her in the bed. It is a perfectly composed study in light and shadow, and grief. Who composed that shot? The PEOPLE photographer?

If Joy and Austin want to let the PEOPLE photographer in on their most anguished minutes of life, it's on them to be criticized. Are they helping others by showing this, or are they making money from it? It is possible that a few people are comforted by this, but I remain unconvinced.

And if Joy and Austin are coerced into letting PEOPLE in at this time, but can't deny them, then SHAME on those who coerced them.

Unpopular opinion, I know. I'll see myself to the prayer closet now... and I will pray for them to be comforted.

Those pictures were not exclusive to PEOPLE, so no.

[metheglyn]

2 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

I feel bad for Joy and Austin, but something just jars me about the photos. There is the black and white one of him leaning over her in the bed. It is a perfectly composed study in light and shadow, and grief. Who composed that shot? The PEOPLE photographer?

If Joy and Austin want to let the PEOPLE photographer in on their most anguished minutes of life, it's on them to be criticized. Are they helping others by showing this, or are they making money from it? It is possible that a few people are comforted by this, but I remain unconvinced.

All of the photos in the PEOPLE article are from Joy and Austin's Instagram. The black and white picture was from their initial announcement. Frankly, with as much time as their family has spent around cameras growing up as they have, I'd be surprised if many of them didn't have at least some skill with composition at this point. 

They photographs may be somewhat staged, but I'm pretty sure they're all staged by friends and family to be what they consider appropriate for release on SM rather than staged for earning money for PEOPLE magazine. I mean, it's a hard thing and they understandably want some control over how they're seen when releasing the information, but that doesn't mean they're currently posing for a magazine.

[Four is Enough]

I stand corrected. I certainly would not want my grief out there the way it is for Joy and Austin, but, as has been said, they're much more used to being in front of the cameras than I am.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

3 minutes ago, outtheblue said:

I keep seeing these comments in the Facebook groups and it's irritating the hell out of me...I don't want to have to defend the Duggars but in this case I feel the need to.

 

Those pictures were not exclusive to PEOPLE, so no.

Don't you know that People employs the only photographer in Arkansas? /Sarcasm

Seriously I don't get it. They had a great photographer doing his/her job. So? What does this demonstrate?

[VelociRapture]

As others have already said there is no indication that People sent a photographer. The photos mentioned that the magazine used were all taken by family or by Joy’s best friend, Carlin Bates Stewart, who traveled to Arkansas to be by her side as she said goodbye to her child. They are not making money off of it because the magazine got the photos and information from the Forsyth’s public Instagram account.

People really need to stop. We have no evidence at this point that they are exploiting their legitimately tragic situation for financial gain or to promote their pro-life views. Speculating that they’re somehow profiting off of the loss of their daughter right now, when we have no tangible proof to back that speculation up, is inappropriate. I really thought FJ was better than this. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I get that people always expect the worst from fundies in general and Duggars in particular. But can't we at least wait for them to do something reprehensible BEFORE criticising them for it? The contrary just doesn't make sense and is quite bad taste too.

[SassyPants]

It’s ALL speculation at this point. And I will firmly stand by my point that privacy and lack of boundaries do play a part. The pictures are beautiful and a wonderful memento for Annabelle’s family. I’m sure that Joy, Austin and their close family and friends will forever cherish those photos, as it absolutely should be. Shame on any organization using those photos and family, without their permission, for any gain. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I thought the photos were taken by Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, a photography company that only does infant loss photos, so they were staged by them, they are beautiful photos, and I'm glad couples who lose their babies have such beautiful photos to remember them by, since it is the only photos they have.  

We get it folks, you would NEVER do this, just because you say you wouldn't do it, when it has never happened to you, doesn't mean you would feel that way if it did.  Remember none of us get to tell someone else how to grieve, this is Joy & Austin's loss, they get to make the rules for it. 

[VelociRapture]

10 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I thought the photos were taken by Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, a photography company that only does infant loss photos, so they were staged by them, they are beautiful photos, and I'm glad couples who lose their babies have such beautiful photos to remember them by, since it is the only photos they have.  

We get it folks, you would NEVER do this, just because you say you wouldn't do it, when it has never happened to you, doesn't mean you would feel that way if it did.  Remember none of us get to tell someone else how to grieve, this is Joy & Austin's loss, they get to make the rules for it. 

It’s possible the charity was there to take photos, but that’s just speculation right now. 

And I couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t really matter what anyone else would do in the Forsyth’s position because they aren’t the ones living this exact experience. Joy and Austin are and they get to decide what’s best for them and their family. 

[Melissa1977]

.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Melissa1977
Too personal, sorry

[LiterallyBananas]

I've only seen the photo that was re-posted here, but I thought it was beautiful because of the depth of emotion it conveys. It evokes a deeper, almost unifying empathy that's often missing from anything Duggar-related. 

Sometimes photography captures things that words can't. It reminds me of a candid picture someone took of my grandma - my grandpa passed away this March, and the photo is from his funeral. She's sitting alone inside the chapel, looking at a stained glass window made to look like a cross, with the box of my grandfather's ashes at her side. The composition says so much about her character and experiences, something that's difficult to describe via text. 

Grandma's funeral picture wasn't plastered on social media a la Jill Rodrigues, but I'm thankful it was shared amongst family. I can see why the Duggars/Forsyths chose to post the pic of Joy and Austin, assuming they gave their consent; it's compelling and moving in a way that's meaningful. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by LiterallyBananas

[MathQueen]

A colleague/friend of mine displayed a beautiful family portrait taken of their family, including the parents and their two young children, with their stillborn daughter. It was staged like any other professional portrait. Hair and light make-up were done, and all of them were wearing a coordinated shirt or blouse. It was an immensely evocative and tender photo. They were very open about the loss at the time, but kept the specific details to themselves. I thought that the portrait was beautiful, and it gave other people all they needed to know about the magnitude of their loss.

 

P.S. They had family portraits done this fall in the same color scheme with their now two adult children and their spouses. They are so vibrant and full of life, and they captured the energy and and joy of their family.

[Whipple]

I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for Joy.  There are no words. t know that Michelle must be heart-broken for her daughter, especially after having gone through the same thing with Jubilee. IWith Michelle having so much guilt over her first miscarriage (Caleb), blaming her use of birth control, I wonder if she can let that go and be a support to her daughter. I hope that she as a mother can drink something other than Kool-Aid and come from a place of wisdom. and growth. Grandma Mary is gone. It has been such a hard month for the Duggars.

[Beermeet]

Cell phones can take great pictures.  All the filters and whatnot.  I took a cell phone picture of my friend and her groom they just loved. Random shot of them on the stairs coming down to greet us at reception.  They liked ot better than all the professional ones and used it as the one to hang in their home.  These days, one doesn't have to be a trained photographer.  So, how good the pics technically look is kinda normal these days.  I'm sure there were a few not so good ones. JRod is the only person who can't take one good pic. 

[NorthernGal]

The photos look very much like the website of Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep.  I think they either had them do them or whoever took them referenced infant loss photos.  You can feel the emotion through the photos.  There will always be those who feel this should be private and those who are fine with it being shared.  I think the important thing to remember is that for whatever reason J and A felt like they needed/wanted these.  Personally I think they are beautiful and tasteful and could be put in a frame on a wall to remember their daughter.  

On another note that fermented vegetable posting these photos and commenting that she is wants to know if they are thinking about what caused this???  Seriously?  Of course they are wondering, they are wondering that and a million what ifs and if only's  

I think it apt that pickles come out of a crock!

[jillsdopplerofdoom]

The first time I saw the photo of Joy and Austin I just thought someone had taken it whilst they had a moment together. They look to be deep in prayer, probably thanking God for the life of their baby. Maybe Joy was in labour. Maybe they weren't  even aware the photo had been taken until afterwards.

Joy probably wrote the caption and posted the photo. People would've taken the photos off Instagram and there would be no profit made. 

[luv2laugh]

The photo of Joy crying over her lifeless baby/fetus with Austin looking empty along with Jill and Michelle looking over made me tear up. The raw, deep pain depicted in their faces stuck with me and I can’t stop thinking about how they’re suffering right now.

However, did that one specific photo need to be shared? I found it triggering. I’d imagine many followers and fans are feeling triggered from that specific photo.

I found the photo of Joy and Austin looking down at their baby/fetus beautiful yet obviously sad but not as painfully triggering as the other one.

Newly married Carlin is very caring and a great friend. I see her in a completely new light. She was there for Joy at her worst and didn’t have to be. She had nothing to gain, financially nor anything for attention (such as being filmed) and still showed up to support Joy.

Edited July 6, 2019 by luv2laugh

[just_ordinary]

18 hours ago, PurpleCats said:

My only problem with people posting pictures of their stillborn babies is that may be triggering or unsettling to other people. Posting it as not the first pic in the album or not the insta cover photo sufficiently guard against this.  

I have to strongly disagree with this sentiment. People get triggered by all sorts of things and sorry but who decides a miscarriage is worse than other tragedies? This special snowflake mentality is not fit for living in the real world. Can you expect people that know about your tragedy to be sensitive. Definitely! But the rest of the world? Definitely not. 

I had an early miscarriage (missed miscarriage + D&C) but it was still hell. Losing my father unexpectedly when he was just 47 was hell. Those topics and people sharing beautiful stories of their fathers trigger me very very much indeed. I, however, can not expect not to be confronted with those topics. I can choose to leave the conversation though when it gets to much.

Additionally I don’t think there is a taboo about miscarriage/stillbirth in it self. There are taboos about abortions and death in general though. I talked about my miscarriage here because the internet provides anonymity. In my real life I didn’t tell many people. 3 to be exact and I wish I hadn’t told two of them that I was pregnant so I didn’t have to share those news. So I don’t think it’s a taboo but has to do with privacy and pain. Many people react helpless to such news and only few can offer real comfort and even if not many people choose to keep this private. I have never experienced that people expressed even a hint that this topic should have stayed hidden if someone opened up.

And I am completely shocked about the conversation they happened in the last thread. Especially because many posters I generally enjoy to read didn’t show themselves in the best light for me. This was a completely unworthy discussion and I cannot wrap my head around why so many felt they should keep the conversation going. 

On the topic of her being pregnant again in no time: You don’t know that. Even if they try, it might very well be that her body takes quite some time to go back to normal. 

Lastly: I am very sorry for Joy and Austin and feel for them (even though I disagree with almost everything they stand for). Hopefully they can grieve as private or public as THEY want and that their families, friends and believes will be sensitive, helpful and comforting. I also hope they can grieve and heal together and find comfort and strength in one another.

[HarleyQuinn]

 

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

 

People really need to stop. We have no evidence at this point that they are exploiting their legitimately tragic situation for financial gain or to promote their pro-life views. Speculating that they’re somehow profiting off of the loss of their daughter right now, when we have no tangible proof to back that speculation up, is inappropriate. I really thought FJ was better than this. 

I respect your point but stopping speculation is way too much censorship in my opinion. It's not inappropriate to wonder if a family with a history of profiting off of their every move is doing it again. Especially when magazines like People, who have worked with them in the past are featuring their photos. No doubt if there's any type of relationship still, they will be compensated in some way. 

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 

I respect your point but stopping speculation is way too much censorship in my opinion. It's not inappropriate to wonder if a family with a history of profiting off of their every move is doing it again. Especially when magazines like People, who have worked with them in the past are featuring their photos. No doubt if there's any type of relationship still, they will be compensated in some way. 

I respect your view as well. When I said that it was after people had already been informed multiple times about the origins of the photos used by People magazine and the fact that the family very likely received no compensation though. So yeah. My point stands. Any continued speculation at this point is obviously allowed, but it’s also pretty inappropriate in my opinion. 

[viii]

32 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

However, did that one specific photo need to be shared? I found it triggering. I’d imagine many followers and fans are feeling triggered from that specific photo.

I would imagine Austin and Joy shared the photos they were comfortable with sharing. If it triggers someone, that’s on that person, not joy and Austin. Life is not accommodating, you have to learn to protect yourself and remove yourself from situations that trigger. Life doesn’t revolve around individual people. 

[luv2laugh]

Why aren’t people able to speculate and give opinions anymore on Freejinger without policing? Have I missed something? I’ve always thought people were able to discuss the Duggars and the harmful views of fundamentalism based off of their own opinions?

Honestly? I do not trust anything the Duggars do. The Duggars have not shown themselves to be trustworthy.

The Duggars are not honest with their audience about their beliefs as they would rather either follow or act as a PR team and profit from the secular public than tell them they’re going to hell.

Edited July 6, 2019 by luv2laugh

[laPapessaGiovanna]

It still works like that. And you can still be told off for being as tacky and inappropriate as a Duggar when you post speculation that is also in bad taste.

ETA not without policing, but with community self policing.

Edited July 6, 2019 by laPapessaGiovanna

[shock928]

It's taken me an embarassingly long amount of time to write this - I will admit. But I've been watching this thread since the news broke - and I've seen many viewpoints on the issue.

I can only speak as someone who had a loss (missed miscarriage 10 weeks.) So I can only come from a place of a similar but different pain. I hesitate to play the "who has less or more grief" game. So I'll just leave it at that. 

When we lose someone close to many people, a child, a toddler, a parent or grandparent, many mourn. And they come together and feel less alone. They all can relate and recall fond memories, cry together. But when you have a miscarriage, stillbirth or an infant loss, nobody loved that baby more than you did. And you have no memories, no mementos, nothing to share with anyone. Because of that you feel devastatingly alone - yes - even if you have a good support system sometimes. I did not have a good support system, but it looks as if Joy does and Michelle has gone through similar. So I truly hope she can offer help. Even so, however, they may be feeling alone anyway. I asked for my baby's remains, even though it wasn't a common practice. I keep it in a box under my bed for now with the newborn baby booties I bought for him or her. The only things I have of him/her. All I had was hopes, wishes, dreams for this person. And it all meant something to me. Anytime I've tried to reach out for support, family doesn't know how to respond. One family member was horrified/disturbed I have the remains and kept them. 

But nobody is feeling sadder and more loss than Joy and Austin, and it pains me to say that. If I had been able to have a photograph of my baby I would have loved it and cherished it. I thought the photos were a respectful way to commemorate their child. When a life is lost too soon - especially a life that nobody else had a relationship with - why should the parent's feel the need not to share and be proud of their baby? It's not as if they had a choice to share a living photograph instead of a dead one.  I certainly would have shared photos of my baby  - I didn't feel ashamed. I knew that my baby was loved, real, wanted and wanted others to know that too, not just sweep it under the rug and "better luck next time." I still count my pregnancy and baby. Hell, my body thought it was pregnant for two entire months after I'd had a D/C. I see no political agenda or financial agenda by their sharing those photos, everybody knew they were pregnant, it's not as if they could just carry on after the baby passed away without an announcement. Joy will be going through a lot emotionally and physically and maybe it comforts her to have people commenting that they are praying for her. I had nobody texting and calling me after my loss, and the silence was deafening. 

And the horrible, terrible thing is that future pregnancies will be riddled with worry and anxiety. I'm 30 weeks now - and not a day goes by without anxiety. I started out with subchorionic hemmorhage and thought I lost this current baby several times. Every ultrasound feeling like I'll puke. Every day trying to make the baby move. Other complications. What I feel the most sick about this whole thing is that Joy will go on to have more pregnancies and this will never leave her, ever. This will always be her second child, just as I will always count mine. I worry for her to have so many more possible pregnancies with that kind of weight, worry, and anxiety on her shoulders every day during subsequent pregnancies. It's will not be easy...