Joy & Austin 28: loss and mourning

[JustEnough]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

My mom told me, “At least you know you can get pregnant and next time would be different,” while I was in the middle of miscarrying our first pregnancy. She honestly meant well and I love her dearly, but I wanted to slap her at that moment. I settled for glaring at her and saying something about how I didn’t want another baby, I wanted this one. She never said anything like that to me again about the subject. 

Making “at least” statements, no matter how well intentioned, minimizes the other person's feelings. It’s not helpful at all. If someone doesn’t know what to say then a simple, “I’m so sorry,” and offering to let them cry on your shoulder is a much better option. 

Likewise, telling someone with diagnosed anxiety to just “calm down” or “you need to relax” are equally unhelpful. My mom told me I just needed to relax when we were trying to conceive our second (Yes, because relaxing will fix my PCOS) and told me I need to calm down before a big ultrasound with this pregnancy (Despite knowing my medical history and the fact that I have every reason to be anxious this time around.) I let the first comment slide because I didn’t have the energy to argue it, but I flat out snapped at her over the second comment about how if it was that easy I wouldn’t have anxiety or be in therapy. 

So yeah. No “at least” comments when dealing with grief and no comments about calming down to people struggling with anxiety is a pretty solid rule to follow. 

I agree. "At least____" has to be the least helpful comment someone can make with (possibly) good intentions.

I have heard a lot of them, and a lot of them more than once as I have had more unsuccessful pregnancies than successful ones but the one that made me the most crazy wasn't from a family member, it was from my OB. We had just done 13 vials of bloodwork and other tests to try and determine why I was having "habitual miscarriages" (which is actually what was written in my chart, I was told it was the medical term and I said a man must have come up with it because no woman who had gone through multiple losses would call it that).  I'd had 3 consecutive losses, and at that time I'd had no successful pregnancy. The results came back with no answers which was devastating to me because it meant there was nothing I could do. My doctor, after delivering my test results, said "At least you're young, you have lots of time to keep trying."

Just no. Don't say that.

[Georgiana]

I think it's a good thing that Joy and Austin have beautiful photos to remember Annabell by.  Sometimes when you see images of yourself looking rough or particularly haggard, it can bring with it that gut punch where your body reminds you of exactly how distraught you were in that moment.  It's hard to look at photos where trauma is on clear display, especially when it's you.  

But photos where a person looks put together are easier to look at.  I think Carlin did a very good thing when she encouraged Joy to allow her to make her up.  I think they will someday be very grateful to Carlin for her influence.  Joy and Austin now have nice photos they can use to remember Annabell that don't immediately gut punch them with the trauma of the loss, but instead encourage them to remember her as they mostly knew her: the daughter who was expected with great love and anticipation, but that they never got to meet.  These are photos they can display and share with Gideon and any future children.  These are photos they can share with friends and family.  All of those can be healing experiences, and these are photos that can be used to heal.  

Do I think they needed to be shared?  Yes, actually, I do.  Because Joy and Austin publicly announced a pregnancy, and this is a beautiful and simple way for them to announce the loss that doesn't require them to take time away from their grief.  Because these are lovely photos and appropriate to be used in a public and open discussion about pregnancy loss, which is important.  The ones I have seen are incredibly tasteful, not that taste at all is something that really matters in a moment like this, but for what it is worth, they are.  I think they likely have more of Annabell herself that they have kept private.  But the ones they have shared are honest and beautiful photos of loss.  

I think they have handled the loss of Annabell with more grace and discretion so far than we generally see from Duggars.  I think that's likely to change in the near future, sadly, but so far I can find nothing in anything Joy and Austin have posted to criticize.  

[feministxtian]

A friend of mine lost a dearly wanted and loved baby girl just 6 days after her birth. There are pictures of this baby from birth until the day they stopped life support. I promise you I would beat anyone who would talk shit about these pictures. Some of them are definitely not pretty, they might be triggering to some, but these are the ONLY pictures she has of her baby girl. 

Talking shit about Joy and Austin taking pictures of their baby, of Joy getting "done up" for pictures is totally BEC. Until you hold your dead baby in your arms, STFU

For the record I lost a wanted baby 11 days after his birth at 26 weeks. I wish I had pictures of him. 

[MiddleAgedLady]

The Story and photos are on People now. 

 

https://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-stillborn-baby-photo-miscarriage/

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

I think it's a good thing that Joy and Austin have beautiful photos to remember Annabell by.  Sometimes when you see images of yourself looking rough or particularly haggard, it can bring with it that gut punch where your body reminds you of exactly how distraught you were in that moment.  It's hard to look at photos where trauma is on clear display, especially when it's you.  

But photos where a person looks put together are easier to look at.  I think Carlin did a very good thing when she encouraged Joy to allow her to make her up.  I think they will someday be very grateful to Carlin for her influence.  Joy and Austin now have nice photos they can use to remember Annabell that don't immediately gut punch them with the trauma of the loss, but instead encourage them to remember her as they mostly knew her: the daughter who was expected with great love and anticipation, but that they never got to meet.  These are photos they can display and share with Gideon and any future children.  These are photos they can share with friends and family.  All of those can be healing experiences, and these are photos that can be used to heal.  

Do I think they needed to be shared?  Yes, actually, I do.  Because Joy and Austin publicly announced a pregnancy, and this is a beautiful and simple way for them to announce the loss that doesn't require them to take time away from their grief.  Because these are lovely photos and appropriate to be used in a public and open discussion about pregnancy loss, which is important.  The ones I have seen are incredibly tasteful, not that taste at all is something that really matters in a moment like this, but for what it is worth, they are.  I think they likely have more of Annabell herself that they have kept private.  But the ones they have shared are honest and beautiful photos of loss.  

I think they have handled the loss of Annabell with more grace and discretion so far than we generally see from Duggars.  I think that's likely to change in the near future, sadly, but so far I can find nothing in anything Joy and Austin have posted to criticize.  

Well the photos are already in People magazine, so....

[Fluffypaws]

On 7/4/2019 at 11:50 AM, metheglyn said:

Agreed. Per their Instagram, they had an ultrasound at 10 weeks. They shared both a picture (as part of the announcement) and a video. Admittedly it was from a boutique ultrasound location not a doctor's office, but this wasn't the first time they'd had an ultrasound. 

 

[newyorkgirl52]

3 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Krista Gay wrote an excellent piece on Tumblr titled "You Don't Get To Tell Others How To Grieve."  She touches on the infant loss, taking photos, why they are important, and how they help parents grieve and remember among other things. She also gave suggestions of supporting grieving parents who suffered the loss of an infant.  It was well thought out and a very nice supportive piece for Joy and Austin. 

Could you share it or post the link? Thanks. 

[Nikedagain?]

On 7/4/2019 at 3:36 PM, VelociRapture said:

Anxiety during pregnancy is a beast to deal with because it can vary so much from person to person. My first pregnancy ended in a very early miscarriage, which made me extremely anxious for most of my second pregnancy. My second pregnancy ended in the late premature birth of my daughter and I had such bad anxiety during her NICU stay that I had nightly panic attacks. This third pregnancy has been extremely difficult for me emotionally as a result of both those experiences. I’ll get through one milestone fine - like hearing the heartbeat the first time or having a great Nuchal Translucency scan -  and have a bit of relief, but then the anxiety comes back again as we approach the next milestone. That’s even considering I have had four ultrasounds the first trimester and I’ve been having twice weekly appointments starting at 16 weeks to monitor cervical length via ultrasound and get a progesterone injection* this pregnancy. Having a Doppler at home can be legitimately helpful for a lot of people, but it would have stressed me our horribly the first trimester - I would have been tempted to use it all the time and would have panicked if I hadn’t found a heartbeat at some point.

But yeah. I don’t plan on having more kids for a lot of reasons, but the anxiety is definitely one of the biggest ones. My heart goes out to anyone dealing with similar struggles.

*Bonus being able to see baby on the ultrasound and hear his heartbeat when they use the Doppler at the injection appointment.

Ugh. When this first broke, I immediately headed here (I mean, of course?), thought about you and really hoped that you wouldn't see this news. I know that was a silly notion, but I so get the anxiety thing. 

Please take care ❤️

[LacyMay]

I have an acquaintance who volunteers with Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep and she has only ever shared positive things about her experience. Mostly in the vein of it being heartbreaking and challenging but so valuable and worthwhile. It's an incredibly important service. 

I also have another acquaintance who experienced a late term loss who was unable to have those types of photos taken and I know it's something she wishes she had. I've read posts from her talking about how she wished more people would ask to see the photos that they did have because she had a child, she carried that child nearly to term and she so badly wanted to celebrate that childs life however short it was. I think that's what Joy and Austin are doing, celebrating their childs life the best way they know how.

I also think it's possible that TLC may have given them some freedom in how they wanted this to be incorporated into the show. I don't know for sure but with the Little Couple didn't they respect Jen and Bill's wishes to not have crews around during Zoe or Wills first weeks at home to facilitate the bonding process? And I think Up has been pretty low key in covering Whitney and Zach's loss as well as Michaela and Brandon's struggles for the first while. I know it's a different network but I feel like this is such a sensitive topic. 

I think that the makeup and hair could have been a very tangible way for Carlin to serve her friend in her time of need, it was a skill she could share and something she could do. I can very much see it as being a let me do this small thing for you to make these cherished photos as beautiful as possible. I also think there's a level of intimacy in applying someone's hair and makeup that could almost liken it to washing someone's feet, it's a way to care for someone through touch. (I hope this makes sense to someone else except me) 

One headline I saw earlier said something about Joy being "glammed up" and it made me want to reach through my phone and sucker punch the person who wrote it.

Also I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I can't help but feel for Lauren and Josiah, while the loss isn't comparable their is no way this isn't bringing up painful memories for them and I wouldn't be surprised if she was already feeling a level of anxiety over this pregnancy that's being compounded. While the loss and grief "belongs" to Joy and Austin it's going to ripple into the lives of many more of their close friends and family. 

[Pretzel]

8 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I can also see this being Carlin's idea, since people often want to be helpful when around someone in mourning, and makeup and hair is something in her wheelhouse. Joy being laid back, or just numb from everything that's happened, went along with it to please her friend, and now she has to get shit for something that really doesn't matter at all. 

Let's also keep in mind that in Carlin's position, there's not a lot she could do for Joy except for being present, comforting her...and that is just hard when you don't know what to even say. But she could comb Joy's hair and do a bit of make-up to make Joy feel cared for and more put together, which is a nice, physical way Carlin could do something for her best friend. 

I don't get why *this* is what people are giving them a hard time over. I guess it has to do with some people needing drama, they want to see devastated victims rather than someone who is trying to make the best of even the worst situation and move on in some way. It also comes with a bit of misogyny. A woman in labor/post partum is not to have anything on her mind other than her child. People need to see the hard work and exhaustion of labor on them and women need to give up themselves entirely after birth (and even before then), otherwise women don't deserve being valued as mothers. A woman who has make-up on her mind shortly after birth can't possibly be a good mother in the eyes of some, she is not being entirely selfless, so she does not deserve society's approval! OMG, make-up! Most people forget it takes less than a couple of minutes to apply some product, and even if it did take longer...who the hell cares? It makes some people feel more awake, more present, more put together and that is great?! If people don't think make-up is necessary after birth/after surgery/after/during/while whatever, that is okay, but let other people have it if it helps them feel better!? Newsflash: Live and let live and don't blame people who just lost their child for wanting to look a bit better on pictures that reach the public. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Pretzel

[Smee]

10 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I'd imagine it must be pretty hard right now too for the three pregnant sisters-in-law who are expecting girls at the same time Annabell was due. I'd imagine they'd be feeling some extra anxiety about their own pregnancies. Obviously it's not nearly as hard as it will be for Joy but there's got to be some mixed feelings there.

Yes, I agree. When I was pregnant with my second child, my best friend was pregnant with her first, due within a month of each other. Even seeing the positive pregnancy test was a bit bittersweet for me, because I knew she’d been trying 6 months and was struggling emotionally, and at that point I didn’t know she was pregnant too. I visited her the week she had her 20 week scan and discovered a serious health issue, that her baby might not survive, and along with sadness for her and waiting anxiously for my own scan, I felt guilty walking around with my own pregnant belly and healthy toddler. As the weeks passed and we learnt the extent of things, I was both so grateful for my easy experience and acutely aware of how it compared to hers. I thought often about what would happen if her baby died, what could I say when I gave birth and inevitably announced the sex and the name while she mourned? Her baby did survive, but it was very touch and go there at first.

My daughter was born three weeks after her son, but because he went straight to NICU and surgery, I got to hold my baby before she held hers. I went home and for months when I was texting or Skyping her (we lived in different states) I had a newborn with me while she talked about going to the hospital to visit hers. It put a lot into perspective, and it made me so excessively angry when people commented on how I had a girl (my husband is one of three boys and we already had a son) as if the sex of the baby was what mattered.

As far as pictures go, my friend’s son is now five, thriving at school, and they have a second child born without any issues, but in amongst the family photos on display are pictures of her eldest as a newborn with tubes and dressings etc. Those are part of his life, part of their memories, and she has mentioned before how it’s important to her to have them. When he was about 12 months, they visited their families interstate and she told me how she was glad her parents had some of the “hard” pictures in their house too, whereas her in-laws never mentioned his rough start in life or acknowledged it in photographs. She felt like they were trying to erase that part of his history and suggesting that only “perfect” looking grandchildren are worth showing off to friends. Which may have been a little unfair to her in-laws, but still, it’s stuck with me that even though she DOES have more, happier photographs now, she’s still grateful for those first pictures. 

[kiwi]

My sister in law and I were pregnant at the same time and she was due after me. Sadly her baby was stillborn at 24 weeks, I ended up having our baby 6 weeks early two weeks after their loss. I felt so incredibly guilty that our baby lived and theirs didnt. We cried together, we laughed together and i do believe our newborn was a comfort to her (as odd as that sounds).

My mother in law on the hand did not deal with things very well at all, every time we go together as a family she made it her “job” to put our baby somewhere her daughter wouldn’t see it. In its capsule under a table, in a corner of a room, in a bedroom, etc. The first time she moved our baby who was sleeping in a capsule into another room only minutes after we arrived at their house - i freaked out when i noticed our baby was missing, MIL didn’t appear to think it was a problem. Even now it’s something thats just so odd and bugs the crap out of me!

[Pretzel]

11 minutes ago, kiwi said:

My sister in law and I were pregnant at the same time and she was due after me. Sadly her baby was stillborn at 24 weeks, I ended up having our baby 6 weeks early two weeks after their loss. I felt so incredibly guilty that our baby lived and theirs didnt. We cried together, we laughed together and i do believe our newborn was a comfort to her (as odd as that sounds).

My mother in law on the hand did not deal with things very well at all, every time we go together as a family she made it her “job” to put our baby somewhere her daughter wouldn’t see it. In its capsule under a table, in a corner of a room, in a bedroom, etc. The first time she moved our baby who was sleeping in a capsule into another room only minutes after we arrived at their house - i freaked out when i noticed our baby was missing, MIL didn’t appear to think it was a problem. Even now it’s something thats just so odd and bugs the crap out of me!

I think the only way to "cure" your MiL from these habits is if your SiL (is she your MiL's daughter? If so there might be some protective instincts at work in your MiL which are equally weird and touching) had a heart-to-heart with your MiL to tell her it's ok. She does not need to hide your baby from your SiL any longer. 

Most people who've had a loss (or are struggling to even get pregnant) are (painfully) aware that other people do get pregnant and have children that will be healthy and alive. I get being considerate around the time when the loss is still new and people first need to figure out a way to move on before they can join in celebrating other people's happiness. Yet, hiding a family member's very much alive child in a different room for as long as your MiL has done really does not sound healthy at all. As hard as it sounds, we all live in the here and now and your child is as real as their loss. It sounds like your SiL is much stronger than your MiL assumes, so I'd definitely have a talk with her if it was me.

[kiwi]

I think the only way to "cure" your MiL from these habits is if your SiL (is she your MiL's daughter? If so there might be some protective instincts at work in your MiL which are equally weird and touching) had a heart-to-heart with your MiL to tell her it's ok. She does not need to hide your baby from your SiL any longer. 
Most people who've had a loss (or are struggling to even get pregnant) are (painfully) aware that other people do get pregnant and have children that will be healthy and alive. I get being considerate around the time when the loss is still new and people first need to figure out a way to move on before they can join in celebrating other people's happiness. Yet, hiding a family member's very much alive child in a different room for as long as your MiL has done really does not sound healthy at all. As hard as it sounds, we all live in the here and now and your child is as real as their loss. It sounds like your SiL is much stronger than your MiL assumes, so I'd definitely have a talk with her if it was me.

Our baby is now 8yrs old so it’s already been and done. SIL at the time did comment to her mother that it was really odd behaviour and that she was fine and how seeing our baby made her happy, etc. Lets just say my mil is a very odd fish [emoji51]

[VelociRapture]

9 hours ago, Georgiana said:

I think it's a good thing that Joy and Austin have beautiful photos to remember Annabell by.  Sometimes when you see images of yourself looking rough or particularly haggard, it can bring with it that gut punch where your body reminds you of exactly how distraught you were in that moment.  It's hard to look at photos where trauma is on clear display, especially when it's you.  

But photos where a person looks put together are easier to look at.  I think Carlin did a very good thing when she encouraged Joy to allow her to make her up.  I think they will someday be very grateful to Carlin for her influence.  Joy and Austin now have nice photos they can use to remember Annabell that don't immediately gut punch them with the trauma of the loss, but instead encourage them to remember her as they mostly knew her: the daughter who was expected with great love and anticipation, but that they never got to meet.  These are photos they can display and share with Gideon and any future children.  These are photos they can share with friends and family.  All of those can be healing experiences, and these are photos that can be used to heal.  

Do I think they needed to be shared?  Yes, actually, I do.  Because Joy and Austin publicly announced a pregnancy, and this is a beautiful and simple way for them to announce the loss that doesn't require them to take time away from their grief.  Because these are lovely photos and appropriate to be used in a public and open discussion about pregnancy loss, which is important.  The ones I have seen are incredibly tasteful, not that taste at all is something that really matters in a moment like this, but for what it is worth, they are.  I think they likely have more of Annabell herself that they have kept private.  But the ones they have shared are honest and beautiful photos of loss.  

I think they have handled the loss of Annabell with more grace and discretion so far than we generally see from Duggars.  I think that's likely to change in the near future, sadly, but so far I can find nothing in anything Joy and Austin have posted to criticize.  

I can confirm this. I have a bunch of photos from my daughter’s short NICU stay. In some I look completely run down, exhausted, and scared. In others I’m cleaned up, wearing a bit of makeup*, and look far more relaxed. Both types of photos are necessary to help show our journey, but I find looking at the ones where I’m wearing makeup a far easier thing to do. There’s one photo I’m thinking of in particular where I’m holding my baby up to my face and chest. Our eyes are closed, my hair is a mess, I look beyond exhausted, and there’s just a sadness to the photo. I tear up and almost cry looking at it every single time because it just reminds me of how difficult that period of time was for us - the shock of having an unexpected premature birth, the fear of something going wrong, the nightly panic attacks that lasted all night, the inability to sleep or eat because of the severe anxiety, not knowing if our daughter would be discharged quickly or kept for weeks... it’s a lot of powerful emotions to handle all at once when it hits me and that was from a pretty much best case scenario premature birth and NICU stay. 

I’m really glad Carlin took time to care for Joy specifically by doing her hair and makeup. Those photos could bring Joy and Austin a huge amount of comfort the rest of their lives. 

*At my mom’s suggestion. She very rarely wears any makeup herself, but she thought it’d help me feel more like a human being again. I was too anxious and worn down to realize it at the time, but she was right about that. Little things like a shower or putting on some makeup can do absolute wonders for some people in stressful or scary situations.

6 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Ugh. When this first broke, I immediately headed here (I mean, of course?), thought about you and really hoped that you wouldn't see this news. I know that was a silly notion, but I so get the anxiety thing. 

Please take care ❤️

Thank you. This was a pretty difficult thing to read about (is it ever easy for anyone though?), especially since I hit 20 weeks and had the anatomy scan yesterday. Thankfully everything looks good, but I know this is going to be something I think and worry about a bit for the rest of my pregnancy. 

 

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Well the photos are already in People magazine, so....

They did not send those to the magazine. The magazine took the photos and information off of their Instagram. I highly doubt they’re sitting around right now thinking about the best way to cash in on their daughter’s death and I find it really disgusting that this is what people are implying by comments like this. 

[LilMissMetaphor]

Did we already know that Grandma Mary died of drowning, per the bottom of that People article above?

[Glasgowghirl]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

I can confirm this. I have a bunch of photos from my daughter’s short NICU stay. In some I look completely run down, exhausted, and scared. In others I’m cleaned up, wearing a bit of makeup*, and look far more relaxed. Both types of photos are necessary to help show our journey, but I find looking at the ones where I’m wearing makeup a far easier thing to do. There’s one photo I’m thinking of in particular where I’m holding my baby up to my face and chest. Our eyes are closed, my hair is a mess, I look beyond exhausted, and there’s just a sadness to the photo. I tear up and almost cry looking at it every single time because it just reminds me of how difficult that period of time was for us - the shock of having an unexpected premature birth, the fear of something going wrong, the nightly panic attacks that lasted all night, the inability to sleep or eat because of the severe anxiety, not knowing if our daughter would be discharged quickly or kept for weeks... it’s a lot of powerful emotions to handle all at once when it hits me and that was from a pretty much best case scenario premature birth and NICU stay. 

I’m really glad Carlin took time to care for Joy specifically by doing her hair and makeup. Those photos could bring Joy and Austin a huge amount of comfort the rest of their lives. 

*At my mom’s suggestion. She very rarely wears any makeup herself, but she thought it’d help me feel more like a human being again. I was too anxious and worn down to realize it at the time, but she was right about that. Little things like a shower or putting on some makeup can do absolute wonders for some people in stressful or scary situations.

Thank you. This was a pretty difficult thing to read about (is it ever easy for anyone though?), especially since I hit 20 weeks and had the anatomy scan yesterday. Thankfully everything looks good, but I know this is going to be something I think and worry about a bit for the rest of my pregnancy. 

 

They did not send those to the magazine. The magazine took the photos and information off of their Instagram. I highly doubt they’re sitting around right now thinking about the best way to cash in on their daughter’s death and I find it really disgusting that this is what people are implying by comments like this. 

I commented that on their Instagram and people were like they wouldn't do that, oh yes they would. Here in the UK a newspaper hacked the phone of missing teenager Milly Dowler and deleted her messages to clear up space and gave the police and her family false hope that she was still alive and when TV presenter Anne Diamond lost her baby to SIDS they showed up at his funeral after being told not to and blackmailed her into fronting their cot death campaign saying if she didn't it would make her look bad. The enquiry into the hacking scandal here showed how low these magazine's and tabloids would stoop that is why I don't read them.

[Jana814]

2 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

when TV presenter Anne Diamond lost her baby to SIDS they showed up at his funeral after being told not to and blackmailed her into fronting their cot death campaign saying if she didn't it would make her look bad. The enquiry into the hacking scandal here showed how low these magazine's and tabloids would stoop that is why I don't read them.

That’s horrible!!  

[VelociRapture]

12 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

Did we already know that Grandma Mary died of drowning, per the bottom of that People article above?

Yes. 

2 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I commented that on their Instagram and people were like they wouldn't do that, oh yes they would. Here in the UK a newspaper hacked the phone of missing teenager Milly Dowler and deleted her messages to clear up space and gave the police and her family false hope that she was still alive and when TV presenter Anne Diamond lost her baby to SIDS they showed up at his funeral after being told not to and blackmailed her into fronting their cot death campaign saying if she didn't it would make her look bad. The enquiry into the hacking scandal here showed how low these magazine's and tabloids would stoop that is why I don't read them.

I heard about the phone hacking case and was completely disgusted by it. The media can do so much good in the world, but it can be used in such evil ways as well.

The difference here though, is that the magazine got the information legally from a public source. They didn’t hack anyone’s accounts or anything and they very likely didn’t pay the Forsyth family to use it either. They just looked at the information and photos that Joy and Austin provided to the public and used it accordingly.

[Glasgowghirl]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

Yes. 

I heard about the phone hacking case and was completely disgusted by it. The media can do so much good in the world, but it can be used in such evil ways as well.

The difference here though, is that the magazine got the information legally from a public source. They didn’t hack anyone’s accounts or anything and they very likely didn’t pay the Forsyth family to use it either. They just looked at the information and photos that Joy and Austin provided to the public and used it accordingly.

I know here if the pictures are posted publicly they can be used without permission or paying them. While Joy and Austin wanted to share the pictures, I doubt they wanted money for them.

[WiseGirl]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

They just looked at the information and photos that Joy and Austin provided to the public and used it accordingly.

It irritates me the tabloids do this.  @Glasgowghirl my wtf response is to the tabloids, not you.  I never truly understood the extent of the horrible way the tabloids acted. 

I wouldn't wish this tragedy on anyone, but IMO Joy and Austin are showing others this is how we grieve, this is how we are remembering our daughter and it is okay to grieve the loss of your infant how you choose to.  

They aren't the only ones this happens to and it sucks that they have to be a public face for this personal tragedy, but it may educate and give people/the public an understanding that miscarriages do happen late-term and there are different ways to honor and remember your child. 

Only in recent years have celebrities opened up about miscarriages and the more we talk about it, the less people will feel alone.  (Again, only my opinion and I'm not sure if I've worded my thoughts correctly).

 

[viii]

7 hours ago, LacyMay said:

Also I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I can't help but feel for Lauren and Josiah, while the loss isn't comparable their is no way this isn't bringing up painful memories for them and I wouldn't be surprised if she was already feeling a level of anxiety over this pregnancy that's being compounded. While the loss and grief "belongs" to Joy and Austin it's going to ripple into the lives of many more of their close friends and family. 

I agree - Lauren miscarried so early with her first pregnancy and now with her second, once she passed the 12 weeks, it would be easy to believe she would feel safe and would be able to look forward to the future. Unfortunately this shows that pregnancy is never really safe, and it’s always more dangerous than we give it credit to. 

While I hope Joy & Austin have a good support system around them, I hope Anna, Kendra, and Lauren do as well. They will be feeling guilt, I’m sure. 

[Cleopatra7]

There are a lot of photographs from the late 19th and early twentieth centuries of recently deceased individuals often posed as if they were alive, especially babies and young children. This may sound macabre to modern people, but for the people commissioning the photos, this would be the only photo they would ever have of the deceased. It might have even been one of the few photographs of any kind that the family might have, given how new and relatively rare the technology was.

I think that back then, the relationship with death was a bit healthier, probably because it was more common. Today I don’t think Americans know how to cope when somebody they know loses a baby or child because we’ve become accustomed to the idea that young people aren’t supposed to die, when until very recently young people were most likely to die. I don’t think people were hardened to child death so much as it was a more universally shared experience, and so if a child died of some disease or something, there was more of an understanding about what the socially acceptable thing to say or do in response was, which I don’t think is the case today. The role of social media is also confusing, since it isn’t clear about how to make serious topics tasteful in that medium (see the perceived callousness of using emojis or text speak or taking selfies in inappropriate places).

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

This whole experience has to  be bringing up anxiety for Lauren & Anna, while Anna has been quiet about her loss she still had one.  This also has to be bringing up very painful memories for JB & M They know exactly what JA & A are going through, know they have to watch their daughter and SIL go through this knowing how badly it hurts, plus they lost a granddaughter.  It  has a been a rough month in the Duggar house, losing GM and now Annabell.

Several people have said this, butI I'm gonna say it too, I'm so happy to see Michelle there to comfort Joy, her and Joy sadly have something to bond over and I hope this experience will may allow Michelle time to grieve for Jubilee that she never seemed to get, she was allowed a couple days while waiting for her labor to start, but then it seemed to be all hands on deck and life as normal.  

As for the spread in People, they are celebrities, D list but well known. Honestly I like that infant loss is become a much less taboo subject. As Jamie Ottis said, she wanted to share her loss, because she wanted to share her son, the 2 friends had I have 2 that lost her son at 31 weeks and the other who had a still birth at 41 weeks, they want their babies remembered. I remember my friend who lost her daughter during birth, had photos taken and then later had a mutual friend photoshop the vent out of the photos since all they had were pictures of her 2 days on life support.  She has the photos up in her home next to her 2 other kids photos, I remember her planning the funeral and she said this would be the only thing she would ever be able to do for her daughter, there would be no birthday parties, no 1st communion, no high school graduation, no wedding.  They had a huge beautiful funeral for her, it sounds strange but they had pink and lavender balloons, cupcakes, and all kinds of Italian food (she's from Italy) it had his appropriate sadness but was a somewhat festive for the reason for the gathering.  

[Four is Enough]

I feel bad for Joy and Austin, but something just jars me about the photos. There is the black and white one of him leaning over her in the bed. It is a perfectly composed study in light and shadow, and grief. Who composed that shot? The PEOPLE photographer?

If Joy and Austin want to let the PEOPLE photographer in on their most anguished minutes of life, it's on them to be criticized. Are they helping others by showing this, or are they making money from it? It is possible that a few people are comforted by this, but I remain unconvinced.

And if Joy and Austin are coerced into letting PEOPLE in at this time, but can't deny them, then SHAME on those who coerced them.

Unpopular opinion, I know. I'll see myself to the prayer closet now... and I will pray for them to be comforted.