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Seewalds 39: Piping in on the IKEA conversation


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OyToTheVey
28 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

okay this is cute and well it could all be for show I want to hope that Jessa really is the attentive mother we see in these clips

 

Jessa was also the Duggar house tutor for years. She’s the one that has the most experience actually teaching. She’s clearly good at it. I love that Henry knows his letters. It’s so important to start early. 

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Ivycoveredtower
19 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

Jessa was also the Duggar house tutor for years. She’s the one that has the most experience actually teaching. She’s clearly good at it. I love that Henry knows his letters. It’s so important to start early. 

yeah don't forget don't mess with Jess. Now it seems Ben goes over and does the work with the little kids. Michelle truly is useless. 

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laPapessaGiovanna
15 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I think people on FJ are sensitive to this topic. Some members have been disciplined, myself included, for making what others have viewed as a “diagnosis.”  Although I am not sure if discipline is always done across the board.

Saying that a weeks old baby you saw only through one picture on the internet may have x condition is the definition of armchair internet diagnosing from a picture. It doesn't matter if you add the disclaimer "but I don't mean to diagnose". This is the rule in case someone forgot, it is pretty clear and it doesn't mention anywhere adult people you know irl.

Quote

Do Not Diagnose Children

Please do not internet armchair diagnose children from pictures.   Most of these kids have no control over anything in their environment and no say in whether their lives are up for public consumption.   The last thing they need is to google themselves down the road and find out a bunch of strangers on the internet think they were on the autism spectrum or some other random diagnosis.

Also, if you think that moderation isn't applied consistently through the board you could flag rule breaking posts, it would be extremely helpful.

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Grammar
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Smee
18 hours ago, bal maiden said:

I object to people using 'a bit OCD' or 'a bit autistic' to describe a personality quirk in someone without a Dx, since it trivialises real, debilitating conditions, and makes it harder for sufferers to be taken seriously, or access help. 

Yes, this is more where I was coming from when I asked the question. OCD is SO much more than just being particular about cleaning (& often doesn’t even relate to cleaning at all) so it frustrates me to see it used that way because it really downplays the impact it has on some sufferer’s lives. Likewise when someone IRL joked about my daughter’s sudden smiles after a temper tantrum saying “all babies are a bit bipolar”, I was pissed because bipolar =/= mood swings and a friend had just lost her mother to suicide after decades battling bipolar disorder. That language use implies that mental illnesses aren’t a big deal.

But I’m fully aware that it’s common practice for those kinds of colloquialisms to be used and the people saying it mean no offence. 

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Snarkasarus Rex
10 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

okay this is cute and well it could all be for show I want to hope that Jessa really is the attentive mother we see in these clips

 

I think she is...for now.  Michelle was an attentive mother as well for her first few kids.

We'll see how well she does with three littles.  It's a different ballgame with 3 vs. 2, so that's why Mr. Rex and I never went there.

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lizzybee

I was impressed and a little jealous by this. Henry is little younger than my toddler, but my son is in therapy for a speech delay. I wish he was ready for stuff like this at 2.5, but he’s improving though, so maybe one day soon we can think about starting on stuff like this. 

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VelociRapture
26 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

I was impressed and a little jealous by this. Henry is little younger than my toddler, but my son is in therapy for a speech delay. I wish he was ready for stuff like this at 2.5, but he’s improving though, so maybe one day soon we can think about starting on stuff like this. 

Just remember, your children are going to be offered a world of opportunities. The Seewald boys? Probably not so much. I’d say your kids are probably going to be better off in the long run, especially since they have parents willing and able to seek legitimate outside help when needed. :) 

2 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think she is...for now.  Michelle was an attentive mother as well for her first few kids.

We'll see how well she does with three littles.  It's a different ballgame with 3 vs. 2, so that's why Mr. Rex and I never went there.

I completely agree. I genuinely think its great that Jessa and Ben seem to be loving parents, but they’re still involved with IBLP (as seen by Jessa’s recent participation at the Family Conference) and if they intend to continue adding more kids then that will mean less individualized time for each of them. 

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Carm_88

I think Michelle got thrown in the deep end with going from 1 to 3 kids with the birth of the twins. I think she was already overwhelmed at three and they just kept adding on. I don't think she ever caught up and she soon gave up. 

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Ivycoveredtower
6 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I think Michelle got thrown in the deep end with going from 1 to 3 kids with the birth of the twins. I think she was already overwhelmed at three and they just kept adding on. I don't think she ever caught up and she soon gave up. 

not to mention with the twins she had a c-section because of pre-eclampsia  then seven months after the twins were born she got pregnant with Jill and then when Jill was three months old her mother died, 

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HerNameIsBuffy
16 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I think Michelle got thrown in the deep end with going from 1 to 3 kids with the birth of the twins. I think she was already overwhelmed at three and they just kept adding on. I don't think she ever caught up and she soon gave up. 

I thought she didn't have her breakdown moment until she had 6 kids?

Three kids is a huge change because you're outnumbered, but it's manageable for most people.  3 kids was a small family not long ago, 4-5 kid families were super common and women weren't having breakdowns as a rule.

I'm not doubting you, just wondering why you think 3 was the tipping point for her.

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Ivycoveredtower
3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I thought she didn't have her breakdown moment until she had 6 kids?

Three kids is a huge change because you're outnumbered, but it's manageable for most people.  3 kids was a small family not long ago, 4-5 kid families were super common and women weren't having breakdowns as a rule.

I'm not doubting you, just wondering why you think 3 was the tipping point for her.

I think five was when she had the break down officially but a lot of stuff happened with the twins and then like i said above she had Jill not long after then she lost her mother, they were slowly falling into fundiedom at this time. there are pictues of her in shorts with the twins but I'm not sure about after Jill was born,  then she had an 18 month gap between jill and Jessa and only a thirteen month gap between Jessa and Jinger.  and then again only a thirteen month gap between JInger and Joe which remember those two where her home births.  so she was starting to fall into this world when the twins were babies after having this c-section, then quickly got pregnant again. remember she'd had a break between Josh and the twins and they had waited what four years into their marriage to have Josh. (Scary to think how many kids they'd have now with that four years) so she went from one too three then quickly four and lost her mom.  So i figure by the time she was pregnant with Jill she was already falling down the I don't give a shit hill.

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Carm_88
41 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I thought she didn't have her breakdown moment until she had 6 kids?

She had the laundry room breakdown between 5 and 6. I just feel that she was fed bullshit by a doctor who didn't know what he was talking about, potentially mourning the kid that could have been, went slightly fundie, and then had unexpected twins. Josh was a little less than two, I don't know, I just get the feeling that she got slightly overwhelmed at that point and instead of going "We should take a break" , she pushed the gas and kept going and going, then there was the complete breakdown, and then just didn't care. 

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HerNameIsBuffy
32 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

So i figure by the time she was pregnant with Jill she was already falling down the I don't give a shit hill.

I get she had stuff going on, but I guess I don't see that as a reason to start distancing in parenting.

As I said, in my generation a lot of people had several kids close together, tragedies happen.  I'm not saying it's the easiest time in life, but if that pushes you over the edge to not parenting properly you have other issues happening.

I had 3 kids all 2 years apart.  We moved so I could take care of my mom as she died of cancer after my first and until after my second was born.   During this time my eldest was diagnosed with PDD-NOS.  I had a miscarriage at 19.5 weeks days before my mom died, got pregnant again within weeks, and a few months later lost my dad.  

My point isn't to enter the stress Olympics, just that I know what it's like to have 3 under 4 while dealing with tremendous loss and I stayed engaged with my kids including intensive interventions for a child with serious special needs so if Michelle went over the edge then she had other issues going on.

The difference between Michelle and I is I stopped at the number of kids I could properly attend to with our financial and emotional resources.  

I think Michelle was far more a pregnancy addict than she was a mother and that was her main issue.

 

 

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Ivycoveredtower
3 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I get she had stuff going on, but I guess I don't see that as a reason to start distancing in parenting.

As I said, in my generation a lot of people had several kids close together, tragedies happen.  I'm not saying it's the easiest time in life, but if that pushes you over the edge to not parenting properly you have other issues happening.

I had 3 kids all 2 years apart.  We moved so I could take care of my mom as she died of cancer after my first and until after my second was born.   During this time my eldest was diagnosed with PDD-NOS.  I had a miscarriage at 19.5 weeks days before my mom died, got pregnant again within weeks, and a few months later lost my dad.  

My point isn't to enter the stress Olympics, just that I know what it's like to have 3 under 4 while dealing with tremendous loss and I stayed engaged with my kids including intensive interventions for a child with serious special needs so if Michelle went over the edge then she had other issues going on.

The difference between Michelle and I is I stopped at the number of kids I could properly attend to with our financial and emotional resources.  

I think Michelle was far more a pregnancy addict than she was a mother and that was her main issue.

 

 

I think Michelle never really grew up. you have to remember she was the youngest child there was a significant age gap between her and her siblings, it sounds like her parents basically let her do as she pleased and when she was 17 and they said they were moving she said she was getting married and they said okay.  then when things did get difficult, as in when most people would stop she just got more help, the laundry fairy ect... 

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JDuggs

For all the talk about what a “checked out” mother Michelle is, three of her adult daughters (Jana, Jessa and Jinger) have raved about what a wonderful mother she is from their perspective. The younger set of girls don’t seem very attached to her, but Michelle has actually had a much better opportunity to spend quality time with them. I guess we’ll hear their opinions in another ten years or so.

 

 

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HerNameIsBuffy
6 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I think Michelle never really grew up. you have to remember she was the youngest child there was a significant age gap between her and her siblings, it sounds like her parents basically let her do as she pleased and when she was 17 and they said they were moving she said she was getting married and they said okay.  then when things did get difficult, as in when most people would stop she just got more help, the laundry fairy ect... 

Sorry keep drawing personal examples but I am also the youngest with a gap of over a decade between my siblings and I and you're right that if parents infantalize you it can mold you in very harmful ways.  You'd be hard pressed to find anyone more immature, self-centered, and completely unprepared for the world than I was and I'm no longer that person...but I absolutely struggle with adult things now that I'm alone that I shouldn't be struggling with at my age.

She has a crutch in Jim-Bob and the whole Christian helping community I never had, so she never had to step up.  She took advantage of others (including her own daughters to raise their buddies) to keep feeding her baby addiction instead of being grateful for the help and trying to get things under control.

I should stop commenting since I've failed, and continue to fail, my kids just as much as Michelle does hers, albeit in very different ways.  

She had her laundry room breakdown years ago.  I've been putting mine off for a lifetime and desperately need to have one now, but despite being young adults my kids still need me enough that I still don't have the option of giving up and checking out....I still have to keep trying in a way she never had to.

I am just bitter atm, she does what she does and has this cushy life where she's protected from responsibility and consequences.  I have to pay for my mistakes...doesn't seem like she will ever have to pay for hers.

 

 

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Carm_88
2 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

For all the talk about what a “checked out” mother Michelle is, three of her adult daughters (Jana, Jessa and Jinger) have raved about what a wonderful mother she is from their perspective.

The thing is, how warped is their perspective? My mother and her sisters always talk about how awesome their Mom was, she was the best Mom that they could have asked for. She did so much for them. Blah, blah, blah. She was a horrible Mom, she was abusive, she should never have had more than one kid, but she had 14. She humiliated her kids, made them compete for food, if you weren't home on time for what she cooked, you did not eat. They weren't allowed to touch the stove or the fridge, my Mom is hard of hearing, so she had to learn to talk, her Mom made fun of her so much, that she is now always apologizing for the way she talks. She hides her hearing aid because it's a sign of her disability and they all mocked her for that too. Kindness and compassion was never truly learned because they were all competing for attention that they could never get. 

They have no other perspective because that is how they grew up. Even now my Mom will tell funny things like her Mom giving her sister the nickname Porky because she was a chubbier kid. I just stare and go "That's not funny." 

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Ivycoveredtower
28 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

For all the talk about what a “checked out” mother Michelle is, three of her adult daughters (Jana, Jessa and Jinger) have raved about what a wonderful mother she is from their perspective. The younger set of girls don’t seem very attached to her, but Michelle has actually had a much better opportunity to spend quality time with them. I guess we’ll hear their opinions in another ten years or so.

 

 

well I mean it's not like the girls can say no my mother sucked, now what would that do to their brand, I mean yeah jill could say something now that she's off the show but then she'd probably be banished from the family. that was all the girls knew really so 

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HerNameIsBuffy
6 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

The thing is, how warped is their perspective? My mother and her sisters always talk about how awesome their Mom was, she was the best Mom that they could have asked for. She did so much for them. Blah, blah, blah. She was a horrible Mom, she was abusive, she should never have had more than one kid, but she had 14. She humiliated her kids, made them compete for food, if you weren't home on time for what she cooked, you did not eat. They weren't allowed to touch the stove or the fridge, my Mom is hard of hearing, so she had to learn to talk, her Mom made fun of her so much, that she is now always apologizing for the way she talks. She hides her hearing aid because it's a sign of her disability and they all mocked her for that too. Kindness and compassion was never truly learned because they were all competing for attention that they could never get. 

They have no other perspective because that is how they grew up. Even now my Mom will tell funny things like her Mom giving her sister the nickname Porky because she was a chubbier kid. I just stare and go "That's not funny." 

I am so sorry your mom and her siblings went through that.  That breaks my heart.

Normalizing abuse and even praising the abuser is such a common defense mechanism.  Humans are resiliant creatures and we will do what we need to do to survive mentally and emotionally ....even if it means lying to ourselves.  

Those girls praise Michelle even though they KNOW she checked out because they raised their siblings.  Their baseline of normal parenting is so skewed.  And when your needs for personal parental attention and affection are never met to the degree you need any kindness gets amplified.

The way a cookie would taste like a miracle to a starving person - it's not enough but your need is so great eating it feels like a miracle.

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Greendoor

Sometimes you have to laugh or you would cry.  I think that's akin to these women saying Michelle was wonderful.

It's why Jill can't cook-  Chickenetti anyone?  The fresh veggies- did Jill start that or  Jessa or  Jana?  I doubt very much that it was Michelle.

All of these women are busy showing (trying to show) their femaleness, not themselves as people.  I don't admire any of them. 

Break out of your gender roles and maybe then I can grant a little respect.

 

 

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Iamtheway

Kids love their mums and it takes a lot for that to change. 

The Duggar kids does not seem very in to questioning what they have been thought. They have been told Michelle is a wonderful mother, thought to honor their parents and they have nothing to compare with either so obviously they are going to praise her.

Not teaching their kids critical thinking skills is the biggest disservice JB and Michelle have done them. Yes it made all of them toe the line (so far) but it also made them ill equipped for life in general. 

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TheMustardCardigan

I wonder if having twins after quitting birth control made them believe this was a super sign from god to have as many kids as possible/not prevent. Would they have been as fundie if they only had one child instead of twins at that time? 

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HerNameIsBuffy
8 minutes ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

I wonder if having twins after quitting birth control made them believe this was a super sign from god to have as many kids as possible/not prevent. Would they have been as fundie if they only had one child instead of twins at that time? 

Who knows what the goblins in her head order her to do in their incessant whispers.

IMO she did exactly what she wanted to do and religion was a handy rationalization.  

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