Josie and Kelton 2: Kelton Gets His Happily Ever After

[Hisey]

OP thinks Josie and her hair/makeup/dress are so enchanting that everyone will be discussing it in 2 months. Because she’s so grown up and beautiful-looking, you know. No one will be able to resist, not even those who are doubtful about Kelton. Cause she looks so grown up!

[HereticHick]

On 8/20/2018 at 2:03 PM, formergothardite said:

? I'm sure the couple picks what they want to do, but UP and TLC don't want Arby's proposals. 

 

I would watch the hell out of a Bates Arby's proposal.

Although I would prefer a fundy-friendly Chik-fil-a proposal, especially if the couple  (and their parents) were dressed like cows on  grift-free-chicken day.

[WiseGirl]

On 8/22/2018 at 9:07 AM, formergothardite said:

The world will not end if Josie has a small wedding with a reception that doesn't include a full meal. 

Oh shit, you're right, that discussion will be starting again. Of all the things to  be disccussed, how does what someone does or does not serve at their wedding always become a long thread drift?

To paraphrase a post from Mom's Against Hate, this can't take no (from a minor)/patriarchal cult is all about toxic masculinity. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

I would watch the hell out of a Bates Arby's proposal.

Although I would prefer a fundy-friendly Chik-fil-a proposal, especially if the couple  (and their parents) were dressed like cows on  grift-free-chicken day.

That would be worth watching. ?

A couple months ago I was looking through one of those that are like 25 crazy wedding proposals and Kristina's Arby's proposal popped up. 

1 hour ago, WiseGirl said:

Oh shit, you're right, that discussion will be starting again. Of all the things to  be disccussed, how does what someone does or does not serve at their wedding always become a long thread drift?

It always happens!  We have pages of this ridiculous wedding fight every single fucking time a fundie gets married. Can we just skip it this time around?

[LawsonBatesEgo]

People are capable of compartmentalizing opinions and being objective about something particular.

I will be completely honest - I actually follow Alyssa's instagram because I like her clothing style. Literally nothing else behind my decision - we just seem to have really similar taste in clothing and I have stolen an outfit idea or two from her before.

I have commented positively on some Bates/Duggar wedding looks because I objectively liked the choice of wedding dress/bridesmaid dress/hairstyle/flowers etc. That doesn't mean I am suddenly endorsing their religious views or even them as a person. Sometimes, a nice bouquet of flowers is just that - a nice choice of flowers. And liking a Fundie's wedding dress is to me no different than watching the Oscar's red carpet and liking a certain actresses dress even though you don't like the actress. I am getting married next year and my large bust means I can't wear the strapless style that inspires 90% of wedding dresses. I need enough of a sleeve or strap that will allow me to wear a bra because bra-less is not an option with my boobs. I actually like to see what dresses these now cashed-up fundies wear because sometimes, they have good ideas. Jessa's dress is a bit too young for me (I am in my early 30s) but if was 10 years younger, I'd be all over wanting it. Doesn't make me a Jessa fan, just means I liked the dress.

[lizzybee]

There's nothing excessive about finding it very problematic that Kelton seems very entitled when it comes to Josie. He finds her beautiful and likes her best and thus his feelings must take precedence over everything else. Even the pesky details of her being underage and her parents not being comfortable with his making advances toward her are irrelevant to what his penis wants.

It's a big problem because this is something we're combating in a larger scale as women. That because a man is attracted to us, we're expected to respond positively, be grateful, like him back. Hey, he's just a good guy and we're supposed to appreciate his attention. This is often the beginning of things like sexual harassment, stalking, rape, and yes, murder. Boundary is set, man becomes angry, scary things happen. Mollie Tibbetts is a perfect example. She said leave me alone and her attacker did not appreciate her setting that boundary. Is that an extreme example? I really don't think so. To me it all collects from the same well. Men want something from us, and as women we are to receive whether we like it or not. 

The red flag is that Kelton seems to be under the impression that he was wronged here. He wanted Josie and pursued Josie and was blocked from having her. A normal reaction would have been to let it go completely out of respect for Josie and her parents and move on with your life. Or at least in hindsight, be able to agree that this was the right choice for Josie at that time. It's problematic that he doesn't frame it that way on their wedding site. The fact that he needed to forgive them for setting healthy boundaries in the life of a teenaged girl is troubling. The fact that he resented her for making that choice is also troubling. It reads like Kelton's odyssey of conquering the many boundaries to get to Josie, a commodity he desired to have for himself. 

It doesn't bode well for Josie to have a healthy and equal marriage with someone who can respect her and the decisions she makes on a daily basis. In all things like this, I'd love to be wrong about that. But Josie has been raised to belong to someone and the tone of his writing really makes me feel like she's going to belong to someone who really sees her as a possession.  

[formergothardite]

19 minutes ago, lizzybee said:

That because a man is attracted to us, we're expected to respond positively, be grateful, like him back. Hey, he's just a good guy and we're supposed to appreciate his attention.

Exactly. Kelton's reaction is a good example of male entitlement where the guy doesn't go stalk the girl, but still is mad and holds it against her. A guy doesn't have to stalk and harass someone to show entitlement red flags. He thinks she wronged him and she thinks she needs to be grateful he was there to date her when she turned 18. This really isn't a healthy mindset for starting a marriage. 

 

[metheglyn]

3 hours ago, lizzybee said:

The red flag is that Kelton seems to be under the impression that he was wronged here. He wanted Josie and pursued Josie and was blocked from having her. A normal reaction would have been to let it go completely out of respect for Josie and her parents and move on with your life. Or at least in hindsight, be able to agree that this was the right choice for Josie at that time. It's problematic that he doesn't frame it that way on their wedding site. The fact that he needed to forgive them for setting healthy boundaries in the life of a teenaged girl is troubling. The fact that he resented her for making that choice is also troubling. It reads like Kelton's odyssey of conquering the many boundaries to get to Josie, a commodity he desired to have for himself. 

If he'd framed it as he "needed time to come to terms with Josie's decision" or "needed to accept and process that he was upset about her asking him to back off but he got over it" I think there would be less pushback, because that puts all the onus for being upset about the situation on himself and makes him the person who ultimately needed to handle his own feelings. By needing to "forgive" Josie and her parents that puts the blame on them and therefore he is able to "charitably" say "you wronged me but I'll be the bigger man about it and let the wrong go". 

Being upset is fine. Blaming Josie and her parents for it (for multiple years) and only really dealing with it by eventually getting his own way and "finally getting Josie" is something else entirely. One sounds like understandable disappointment. The other reads as eventually satisfied entitlement.

[GracieLou Free Duggar]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Exactly. Kelton's reaction is a good example of male entitlement where the guy doesn't go stalk the girl, but still is mad and holds it against her. A guy doesn't have to stalk and harass someone to show entitlement red flags. He thinks she wronged him and she thinks she needs to be grateful he was there to date her when she turned 18. This really isn't a healthy mindset for starting a marriage. 

 

YES!!! 

 

 

Part of me wonders if Kelton might have a skewed belief system of first/young love based on his parent's marriage...

 

[Fundyrunner]

First time poster...this topic is what brings me out of lurking.

Kelton is allowed to have feelings. He is allowed to be disappointed and to have a broken heart. It may not be wise for him to express it to the world in the way that that he is at the moment.

It would be better if he somehow acknowledged their age difference and the need to wait for her to grow up. Rather than complaining about having to wait.

I was raised in a conservative religion where dating was allowed but no pre-marital sex or serious affection was permitted. All of the young men knew to avoid the "jail bait" aka any girl under 18. Every year, high school graduates could start associating with the 20s group, but there was clear discussion among the men about which of the new crop were girls (under 18) and which ones were women eligible to date. I'd like to think it was less about gross intentions and more about avoiding even the appearance of improper activities with a minor (and protect themselves from any accusations). This was 20 years ago.

I would be shocked if similar discussions did not occur in Kelton's circle of friends. It is totally weird to me that a 20 year old man was so open about his interest in a 16 year old girl. If he was given the reason that she was too young to be involved in a serious relationship (with him specifically), he should have completely understood and backed off at least until she was 18.

[formergothardite]

3 minutes ago, Fundyrunner said:

All of the young men knew to avoid the "jail bait" aka any girl under 18. Every year, high school graduates could start associating with the 20s group, but there was clear discussion among the men about which of the new crop were girls (under 18) and which ones were women eligible to date.

I worked at a Christian daycare that also had a summer camp that employed mostly college people. There was a 16 year old who worked afternoons in the preschool who did look older. The second one of the college guys started hanging out and talking to her he was informed of her age and he quickly stopped. There was no drama about how poorly he had been treated, he understood that no matter what she looked like, she was still a 16 year old. 

6 minutes ago, Fundyrunner said:

. If he was given the reason that she was too young to be involved in a serious relationship (with him specifically), he should have completely understood and backed off at least until she was 18.

He was given that reason, and technically he did back off, but he obviously held it against her. He couldn't even listen to Bobby discuss his relationship with Tori he was so upset that Josie didn't want to be involved with him. He couldn't accept a legitimate reason that most people would understand. I agree that people in his college circle probably did talk about how strange it was he was hung up on a 16 year old. Especially since he dated at least one woman his age and in his senior year was still describing a 16 year old as his ideal wife. 

[Hisey]

34 minutes ago, Fundyrunner said:

Kelton is allowed to have feelings. He is allowed to be disappointed and to have a broken heart. It may not be wise for him to express it to the world in the way that that he is at the moment.

 

Of course he's allowed to have feelings. In a way, I feel sorry for him. He was so desperate to have a relationship with this one young girl, a girl he hardly knew, probably because she was pretty and nice to him. Most young men would move on (or wait), but he couldn't get past it. Perhaps because he lost his mother so young, he was needier and clung to the first friendly, attractive girl who was nice to him.

That doesn't change the fact that Josie was a vulnerable minor. Even more vulnerable because she looked "grown up" (was attractive to men). That garnered her all sorts of attention that she might have enjoyed, in some way, but also felt was kinda scary.

That happened with my own kid when she was about 13. She liked knowing she was pretty, but she found the attention (from much older men!) kind of scary, too. Now, at 18, she knows how to handle the attention. She tells older guys she has a boyfriend (she doesn't) and goes on her way.

This is why we protect minors in our society. They are more vulnerable. They dont know how to protect themselves from older guys who are inappropriate or who have their own wounds or scars. I don't think it was "love" that kept Kelton mooning during those years. I think it was entitlement and anger and a bit of narcissism.

[nelliebelle1197]

On 8/23/2018 at 9:11 AM, HereticHick said:

I would watch the hell out of a Bates Arby's proposal.

Although I would prefer a fundy-friendly Chik-fil-a proposal, especially if the couple  (and their parents) were dressed like cows on  grift-free-chicken day.

I love you now, tomorrow, forever.

21 hours ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

People are capable of compartmentalizing opinions and being objective about something particular.

I will be completely honest - I actually follow Alyssa's instagram because I like her clothing style. Literally nothing else behind my decision - we just seem to have really similar taste in clothing and I have stolen an outfit idea or two from her before.

I have commented positively on some Bates/Duggar wedding looks because I objectively liked the choice of wedding dress/bridesmaid dress/hairstyle/flowers etc. That doesn't mean I am suddenly endorsing their religious views or even them as a person. Sometimes, a nice bouquet of flowers is just that - a nice choice of flowers. And liking a Fundie's wedding dress is to me no different than watching the Oscar's red carpet and liking a certain actresses dress even though you don't like the actress. I am getting married next year and my large bust means I can't wear the strapless style that inspires 90% of wedding dresses. I need enough of a sleeve or strap that will allow me to wear a bra because bra-less is not an option with my boobs. I actually like to see what dresses these now cashed-up fundies wear because sometimes, they have good ideas. Jessa's dress is a bit too young for me (I am in my early 30s) but if was 10 years younger, I'd be all over wanting it. Doesn't make me a Jessa fan, just means I liked the dress.

I totally think Jessa's dress would work on any woman. It was the only dress of any that I paid attention to - I only pay attention to the ones that are truly awful because I am a little rascal. I liked it and I think anyone from a teen to a grandma could wear it!

20 hours ago, lizzybee said:

There's nothing excessive about finding it very problematic that Kelton seems very entitled when it comes to Josie. He finds her beautiful and likes her best and thus his feelings must take precedence over everything else. Even the pesky details of her being underage and her parents not being comfortable with his making advances toward her are irrelevant to what his penis wants.

It's a big problem because this is something we're combating in a larger scale as women. That because a man is attracted to us, we're expected to respond positively, be grateful, like him back. Hey, he's just a good guy and we're supposed to appreciate his attention. This is often the beginning of things like sexual harassment, stalking, rape, and yes, murder. Boundary is set, man becomes angry, scary things happen. Mollie Tibbetts is a perfect example. She said leave me alone and her attacker did not appreciate her setting that boundary. Is that an extreme example? I really don't think so. To me it all collects from the same well. Men want something from us, and as women we are to receive whether we like it or not. 

The red flag is that Kelton seems to be under the impression that he was wronged here. He wanted Josie and pursued Josie and was blocked from having her. A normal reaction would have been to let it go completely out of respect for Josie and her parents and move on with your life. Or at least in hindsight, be able to agree that this was the right choice for Josie at that time. It's problematic that he doesn't frame it that way on their wedding site. The fact that he needed to forgive them for setting healthy boundaries in the life of a teenaged girl is troubling. The fact that he resented her for making that choice is also troubling. It reads like Kelton's odyssey of conquering the many boundaries to get to Josie, a commodity he desired to have for himself. 

It doesn't bode well for Josie to have a healthy and equal marriage with someone who can respect her and the decisions she makes on a daily basis. In all things like this, I'd love to be wrong about that. But Josie has been raised to belong to someone and the tone of his writing really makes me feel like she's going to belong to someone who really sees her as a possession.  

This is amazing. Thank you.

[nausicaa]

46 minutes ago, Hisey said:

That doesn't change the fact that Josie was a vulnerable minor. Even more vulnerable because she looked "grown up" (was attractive to men). That garnered her all sorts of attention that she might have enjoyed, in some way, but also felt was kinda scary.

That happened with my own kid when she was about 13. She liked knowing she was pretty, but she found the attention (from much older men!) kind of scary, too. Now, at 18, she knows how to handle the attention. She tells older guys she has a boyfriend (she doesn't) and goes on her way.

I think this is part of why I feel so strongly on this subject. My best friend is really beautiful and has been beautiful and mature looking from a very young age. I was so insanely jealous when we were young that she had this sort of power over older men and got so much attention. Like, grown men asking her out when we were still in eighth grade. She also dated a much older guy while in high school (who, unsurprisingly, turned out to be a controlling ass).

Now that we're older, I can see that it really has affected her negatively and she seems to have some real problems from it. Her self-esteem is really based on male attention and she's been in a lot of really bad relationships because of it. Looking back, I can't imagine how confusing it is to just be a kid and have adult men making passes at you. I'm so grateful I got to be a goofy looking adolescent and explore hobbies and who I was without constantly having platters of dick shoved at me wherever I went. 

[freethemall]

When you wander into a thread (after visiting their wedding website, reading the "love story", and thinking, "hmm I wonder if FJ has discussed this at all?") and end up walking into this mess full of drama and downvotes:

On 8/23/2018 at 11:02 AM, formergothardite said:

It always happens!  We have pages of this ridiculous wedding fight every single fucking time a fundie gets married. Can we just skip it this time around?

It'll never end because each wedding we have a new interpretation and get to see how the weddings have built off each other and inspired one another. And also, I love discussing food and dresses in normal life and in FJ life, as I'm sure others do too.  It's akin to reviewing a restaurant menu to me. But yes, I could do without the cultural arguments of "well in the south this is normal" vs. "we're used to big Italian NJ weddings and would never do that".

[Nodaknorskie]

22 hours ago, lizzybee said:

There's nothing excessive about finding it very problematic that Kelton seems very entitled when it comes to Josie. He finds her beautiful and likes her best and thus his feelings must take precedence over everything else. Even the pesky details of her being underage and her parents not being comfortable with his making advances toward her are irrelevant to what his penis wants.

It's a big problem because this is something we're combating in a larger scale as women. That because a man is attracted to us, we're expected to respond positively, be grateful, like him back. Hey, he's just a good guy and we're supposed to appreciate his attention. This is often the beginning of things like sexual harassment, stalking, rape, and yes, murder. Boundary is set, man becomes angry, scary things happen. Mollie Tibbetts is a perfect example. She said leave me alone and her attacker did not appreciate her setting that boundary. Is that an extreme example? I really don't think so. To me it all collects from the same well. Men want something from us, and as women we are to receive whether we like it or not. 

The red flag is that Kelton seems to be under the impression that he was wronged here. He wanted Josie and pursued Josie and was blocked from having her. A normal reaction would have been to let it go completely out of respect for Josie and her parents and move on with your life. Or at least in hindsight, be able to agree that this was the right choice for Josie at that time. It's problematic that he doesn't frame it that way on their wedding site. The fact that he needed to forgive them for setting healthy boundaries in the life of a teenaged girl is troubling. The fact that he resented her for making that choice is also troubling. It reads like Kelton's odyssey of conquering the many boundaries to get to Josie, a commodity he desired to have for himself. 

It doesn't bode well for Josie to have a healthy and equal marriage with someone who can respect her and the decisions she makes on a daily basis. In all things like this, I'd love to be wrong about that. But Josie has been raised to belong to someone and the tone of his writing really makes me feel like she's going to belong to someone who really sees her as a possession.  

I kind of disagree with the whole discussion regarding Kelton and forgiving the Bates.  I whole heartedly agree that in general the way women are treated is wrong wrong wrong.  With that said in many "Born again churches" the congregants are encouraged to forgive anyone they have anger towards.  The anger doesnt have to rational or justified.  You just need to cleanse your heart of it.  This may be the simple answer even though I agree his anger is misguided.

[eleanora3]

6 minutes ago, Nodaknorskie said:

I kind of disagree with the whole discussion regarding Kelton and forgiving the Bates.  I whole heartedly agree that in general the way women are treated is wrong wrong wrong.  With that said in many "Born again churches" the congregants are encouraged to forgive anyone they have anger towards.  The anger doesnt have to rational or justified.  You just need to cleanse your heart of it.  This may be the simple answer even though I agree his anger is misguided.

I completely agree. I currently feel resentful towards someone who dumped me, but I'm fully aware he did nothing wrong by choosing not to be with me. It's just an emotion, not at all based in rationality. It will be hard for me to see him again the next time I have to, but not because he did anything wrong. 

From what I can see, the lines that people have a problem with in the story are: 

Quote

My previously hardened heart was prepared to go over and forget the past hurt, and just try to enjoy the celebration with Bobby and Tori. It was the best decision of my life. If my heart had not been humbled enough to forgive, then I would not have been ready to receive the ultimate blessing which the Lord had for us.

I don't think the implication is that he felt he was ENTITLED to Josie's love or that she had done anything wrong. I think he's just trying to convey that it was hard getting over being hurt and rejected. The word "forgive" was not the best word choice, but aside from that one word (which Christians looove to use freely and probably incorrectly), there's nothing in this story that implies that Kelton felt like Josie did something wrong.

I could just be projecting my own feelings on the situation, but yeah, sometimes I feel anger and resentment towards this guy who dumped me despite knowing full well that he had every right to break up with me. So I can't blame Kelton for feeling the same way.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just a reminder - here is a picture of Josie just 36 months before Kelton fell so madly in love with her. Kelton would have been 16 or 17 when this picture was taken.

15 minutes ago, eleanora3 said:

I completely agree. I currently feel resentful towards someone who dumped me, but I'm fully aware he did nothing wrong by choosing not to be with me. It's just an emotion, not at all based in rationality. It will be hard for me to see him again the next time I have to, but not because he did anything wrong. 

From what I can see, the lines that people have a problem with in the story are: 

I don't think the implication is that he felt he was ENTITLED to Josie's love or that she had done anything wrong. I think he's just trying to convey that it was hard getting over being hurt and rejected. The word "forgive" was not the best word choice, but aside from that one word (which Christians looove to use freely and probably incorrectly), there's nothing in this story that implies that Kelton felt like Josie did something wrong.

I could just be projecting my own feelings on the situation, but yeah, sometimes I feel anger and resentment towards this guy who dumped me despite knowing full well that he had every right to break up with me. So I can't blame Kelton for feeling the same way.

Um, no. You missed the point completely. The issue is that he felt anger because the parents of an 8th grader did not want her dating a guy in college.

[kmachete14]

isn't 36 months three years? not sure what point you are making (not passing judgement just wondering) 

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, freethemall said:

I love discussing food and dresses

Oh it isn't that part of the discussion I wish to skip. It is the part where people claim the guests must be offended if they didn't get served a meal, or get served a meal but it is a soup meal or when posters say that if you can't afford to provide your guests with a full course chicken dinner you shouldn't even get married. 

3 hours ago, Nodaknorskie said:

.  With that said in many "Born again churches" the congregants are encouraged to forgive anyone they have anger towards.  The anger doesnt have to rational or justified.

I was raised this way too, that we needed to forgive people we felt anger towards, but we were also taught to check our own hearts and make sure we had the right attitude.  The attitude he had was one of entitlement towards a pretty teen girl and he still does not view this attitude as wrong. 

3 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

. I currently feel resentful towards someone who dumped me, but I'm fully aware he did nothing wrong by choosing not to be with me. It's just an emotion, not at all based in rationality.

This is a different situation than two people who have dated and break up. The Josie and Kelton situation was one where an adult became angry that a pretty teen he had hung out with for a couple months but never dated didn't want to be his friend. This happened not only between a teen girl and an adult, but a very sheltered teen girl who has limited say in her life and an adult who is off in college able to date other people and able to make life decisions.  

Being told that a teen is not comfortable being in a relation ship with an adult, should not incite anger and years of brooding. The reason it does is because Kelton was raised in a patriarchal society where men rule and women submit. He thought he should get the hot teen girl and he didn't. He was mad, blamed her/her family and has given no indication he has matured enough to understand that his emotions were off base and she  did nothing wrong. His dad had to talk to him and he couldn't even stand to hear about Tori he was so upset over this.

It doesn't matter if she was pretty, it doesn't matter if she looked grown up, it doesn't even matter if she gave him a long explanation, he wasn't entitled to be in a relationship with her, but was given a reason that is easy to understand, but in the end he blamed her for refusing to continue a relationship she wasn't comfortable. This wasn't a star crossed lover situation, this was an adult blaming a sheltered teen and never getting to the point where he understands that he was wrong to have blamed her. 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, kmachete14 said:

isn't 36 months three years? not sure what point you are making (not passing judgement just wondering) 

I just wrote it that way. No idea why! Nothing behind it.

[sparklymagie]

6 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

. The issue is that he felt anger because the parents of an 8th grader did not want her dating a guy in college

Wait, I think I missed something. I thought she was 16 when she broke off their friendship? A 16 year old is definitely not an 8th grader. Am I misunderstanding? 

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, sparklymagie said:

Wait, I think I missed something. I thought she was 16 when she broke off their friendship? A 16 year old is definitely not an 8th grader. Am I misunderstanding? 

I feel like a lot of the diasagreement/ misunderstanding in this (very harsh) discussion evolves from the fact than in some societies it is no big deal if 16year olds dates (and even has physical relationships aka sex) with people up to the age of 25. I come from a society like that. It is not seen as problematic or highly inappropriate and of course parents still have a close look at how their children are treated. So in my eyes the age difference is not that big of a deal, but we think of our 16year olds as almost adults and let them make a lot of independent decisions without interfering especially regarding their love life.

Now, by the way he phrased the story I can see why people feel there are red flags (apart of both of them being misogynistic fundies) but I can also understand why some think people are way out of line.

It would be interesting to know what Josie would tell. From what I heard from her it sounded more like her parents put a stop to it than she. So who knows what really happened. 

Funny enough I think I saw this with all couples since I joined FJ (as reader not member- signed up late). Courtship: oh so young- partner seems actually quite nice. Engagement: oh so young- she will stop working/studying- so sad- he is a creepy ass pig because of a,b,c. Wedding: oh so young, dress, flowers, food war. First Pregnancy: oh so young and definitely Quiverfull/ definitely preventing and becoming Fundie light.

[AliceInFundyland]

FFS. The age difference thing is almost becoming irrelevant. There’s a couple yrs difference between many young fundy couples. It’s culturally fairly normal to them. Anecdotally many of us know people who had young marriages that worked out. 

The issue is the language Kelton chose to use when writing his love story. Before we read that, nobody was particularly critical of their ages. If two people in their twenties got married and the guy wrote some egocentric piece of crap such as that, many of the same “red flags” would go up.

[freethemall]

8 hours ago, sparklymagie said:

Wait, I think I missed something. I thought she was 16 when she broke off their friendship? A 16 year old is definitely not an 8th grader. Am I misunderstanding? 

I was thinking that too. 16 is 10th or even 11th grade. I was doing much more inappropriate things with older guys when I was that age. Seeing my teenage baby brother now he seems so damn young but you forget what a horney and angsty mess we all were at that age.