Josie and Kelton 2: Kelton Gets His Happily Ever After

[VaSportsMom]

Continued from here 

 

[formergothardite]

Quote

Well if Kelton is bad then I guess Micheal is just as bad since she told her parents either I marry Brandon or I marry no one and as far as she knew Brandon hardly knew she existed. 

@Ivycoveredtower from the other thread.

No big difference. First of all Micheal wasn't an adult claiming she only wanted someone exactly like a 16 year old guy she had met. Secondly, she didn't feel like Brandon was obligated to show interest in her. Brandon not acknowledging her isn't seen as something he did wrong.She does not feel like he wronged her and she needed to forgive him. Finally when her parents told her a guy was interested in looking into a serious relationship(one she knew would almost certainly lead to marriage) that is when she told her parents that she was not interested in pursuing a relationship with someone else because she had fallen in love with Brandon. A reaction that is completely reasonable. 

Kelton felt like Josie wronged him by not pursuing a serious relationship with him at 16. He couldn't comprehend why she didn't want to do that. He looked to find a woman exactly like 16 year old sheltered Josie. 

There is a massive difference between an adult saying I have fallen for another adult and I accept that the relationship might never work out, but I don't want to enter a serious courtship with another person. And an adult spending several years upset because a 16 year old wouldn't enter a serious relationship with him. 

[Hisey]

What worries me here is that Kelton tells us (without shame) that he was angry at Josie.

Quote

My previously hardened heart was prepared to go over and forget the past hurt,

This is exactly why early marriages among fundie girls is wrong. Josie lacks the ability to see the red flags that most of us here are seeing. Most of us are over 18 and know that this type of possessiveness and tendency to blame others is not "cute" and can lead to very bad things.

Kelton's defenders seem to want to see this as a charming love story, in which Kelton is blown away by Josie's beauty. It's not. Instead, it's Kelton showing signs of narcissistic behavior, and this very young girl locking herself into a permanent relationship with him, and the people around her don't seem concerned.

It's not Josie's fault. My own 18-year old, who is not fundie, also lacks the experience to see many "red flags." Most 18-year olds do. That's why many early marriages fail. 

But my teen doesn't have a mom gunning for her to marry. She has not been told divorce is evil. She has been permitted to have other interests, so marriage doesn't feel so essential. She has hung out with boys since she was small, and has dated without the expectation of marriage. She has been warned about danger signs, when we see them in the couples around us. 

Luckily, Josie does have a marketable skill. The fact she can (hopefully) earn her own living might change the power dynamics somewhat in that relationship.

[Naughty&nice]

Wow, some of you guys are amazing.  Its hard to see how you have turned a “teenage love drama” into something so dark & sinister.  I think you guys are doing some serious reading between the lines & assuming alot of things Kelton did not say.   

Lets recap Keltons sins:

1. He asked for her phone number.   Come on guys, its called texting & all the kids are doing it.  He thought she was cute (and she was drop dead gorgeous - even at 16) & he wanted to be friends.  He might have thought something could come of it someday but he did not ask to date or court her. He was headed to college & had plans for his life. Thats not creepy.

2. Hes a “ whiny, self-pitying, self-righteous, nasty, little pig.”  - all because he became friends with a girl he met at church & after alot of texting & sharing (he probably got emotionally involved pretty fast due to the fact that hes had no mother or any other woman to share anything with since he was 12 years old) Josie abruptly ended the relationship with almost no explanation?   He got his feelings hurt & ego bruised. Im pretty sure that he did not know that her parents had anything to do with her decision to stop all contact. (“I couldn't understand why Josie was ending what was just beginning”) He probably found out about the parents reservations years later when they started talking again.

3.  He couldnt take ‘no’ for an answer?  He was “obsessed”. He was “bitter and could not move on”. Seriously???  He had no understanding of why the relationship ended yet spent two years away from the girl & never tried to contact her even though they frequently ran into each other at church.  He dated other girls at college. Many other girls.  He didnt find anyone at PCC that he liked as much as her.  She was obviously his first ‘crush’.  Finding her hard to forget  makes him a “stalker”?  Wow.

4.  Hes creepy because of the age difference?  He had never dated in high school. Neither had she.  They met in a church social group.  He was never going to marry until he graduated from college. He started a friendship with a pretty girl then left for college. Even if he thought it might someday be more, how in the world is that creepy? There was no sex, no kissing, no touching & they were 500 miles apart. She would be 19 by the time he was done with school.  Im sure that he can do simple math too.

5.  He was obviously upset about the abrupt ending of their relationship. That happens to most people when there is no good explanation given. He had some hurt feelings & a bruised ego & said that he had to forgive her.  He said that if he had not forgiven, he would have missed out on the best thing that had ever happened to him. Forgiveness being a virtue that most christians espouse. 

6 He was “angry and pissed that he didnt get what he wanted and that he had to wait for her”.  Again. Misreading his post.  He didnt think he was waiting for her. She ended the friendship with very little explanation.  He liked her & was sharing alot with her & thought they were friends & she cut it off.  He was not asking for more than friendship at the time.

I think part of the problem with his post is that he is writing with perspective & not necessarilly putting every fact in chronological order.  It makes the order of events & the knowledge he had of things hard to understand. 

There is plenty to criticize out there people, not sure why any of us need to read between the lines & make stuff up.

 

Josie at 16

[TatiFish9]

@Naughty&nice brilliant! Thank you for adding sense to a topic that was seriously starting to turn creepy in itself. 

I think most of the comments were valid in a general sense but not to this particular couple especially because:

1. It is hard not to see Josie has fully consented to be in this relationship and seems to be genuinely happy. 2. Her parents have approved it. 3. They're getting married in two months 4. It is clear that his "Our Story" piece was approved by the Bates family to show (despite Kelton moving on with another girl), he always had Josie on his mind. No heart strings were broken because his mind and soul were tied to Josie regardless. 

Outside of that, I honestly can not figure out what we are saying here. Are we saying Josie is in danger? Are we saying Josie has been forced into this relationship?  If so, how do we know? We need to free Josie because for months, on this very board, the general consensus was that Josie was a mature young adult, fast on her career and chosing a solid provider for a partner. Now...on today and only after Kelton has written a *PR laced confession of his unwavering attraction, she is suddenly a sheltered young girl being taken advantage of without her own input and without adult supervision?

On a different note but same topic. I like how Josie admitted she is not a great cook and that Kelton will have to cook with her in the beginning. I am also interested in seeing if she will start a family right away or continue to work for awhile. During his courtship proposal Kelton mentioned her ambition. I think he likes it. It will be upsetting to see her give it all up so soon. Also, Josie stated that they did not allow courting to get in the way of their respective work schedules. She is not dropping all to be with him. Hoping she keeps up that mentality, following in Whitney's path to keep up with outside home/family career once she is married.

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

@Naughty&nice brilliant! Thank you for adding sense to a topic that was seriously starting to turn creepy in itself. 

I think most of the comments were valid in a general sense but not to this particular couple especially because:

1. It is hard not to see Josie has fully consented to be in this relationship and seems to be genuinely happy. 2. Her parents have approved it. 3. They're getting married in two months 4. It is clear that his "Our Story" piece was approved by the Bates family to show (despite Kelton moving on with another girl), he always had Josie on his mind. No heart strings were broken because his mind and soul were tied to Josie regardless. 

Outside of that, I honestly can not figure out what we are saying here. Are we saying Josie is in danger? Are we saying Josie has been forced into this relationship?  If so, how do we know? We need to free Josie because for months, on this very board, the general consensus was that Josie was a mature young adult, fast on her career and chosing a solid provider for a partner. Now...on today and only after Kelton has written a *PR laced confession of his unwavering attraction, she is suddenly a sheltered young girl being taken advantage of without her own input and without adult supervision?

On a different note but same topic. I like how Josie admitted she is not a great cook and that Kelton will have to cook with her in the beginning. I am also interested in seeing if she will start a family right away or continue to work for awhile. During his courtship proposal Kelton mentioned her ambition. I think he likes it. It will be upsetting to see her give it all up so soon. Also, Josie stated that they did not allow courting to get in the way of their respective work schedules. She is not dropping all to be with him. Hoping she keeps up that mentality, following in Whitney's path to keep up with outside home/family career once she is married.

 

Maybe Josie will  follow in Erin's footsteps . remember Erin couldn't cook at all. it was a running joke in the family and now she's the best in the family and everyone wants to eat over at her house. 

the Bates Girls don't seem big on cooking in general. Alyssa and Micheal seemed to maybe enjoy it but Tori just did it because there was no one else and I believe she said she wasn't learning until she was courting someone. (Or maybe that was Carlin) either way one of them said they weren't learning until they were courting. 

[formergothardite]

23 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

Hes a “ whiny, self-pitying, self-righteous, nasty, little pig.”  - all because he became friends with a girl he met at church & after alot of texting & sharing (he probably got emotionally involved pretty fast due to the fact that hes had no mother or any other woman to share anything with since he was 12 years old) Josie abruptly ended the relationship with almost no explanation?  

But he did have a perfectly acceptable and easy to understand explanation, that she was too young for serious relationships. There was literally no way he could have spent that much time around the Bates and not realized that they didn't do casual dating, all relationships the opposite sex were very serious and were basically leading towards marriage. Even if she was in to casual dating, he should have been able to comprehend that many, many parents wouldn't want their 16 year old daughter texting and hanging out with an adult in college. This is fairly easy to comprehend, yet he acted like she wronged him in some way. 

23 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

He had no understanding of why the relationship ended yet spent two years away from the girl & never tried to contact her even though they frequently ran into each other at church.  He dated other girls at college. Many other girls.  He didnt find anyone at PCC that he liked as much as her.

But he did have an understanding, he just apparently refused to accept it. A year later his dad had to talk to him about moving on from Josie. Jose was a 16 year old he hung out with for a couple months. He was still upset a year later that she was unwilling to be in a relationship with him. If I head that a guy was behaving that way over my teen daughter I would have so many red flags about him. And yes, he was at college with adult women looking for someone like a sheltered 16 year old he had spent a couple months with. No wonder he didn't find someone he liked. 

26 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

Even if he thought it might someday be more, how in the world is that creepy?

They creepy part was that he feels like she did something wrong in ending the relationship because she wasn't ready. It is creepy that a year later he was still so upset over a 16 year old who he had never even dated not wanting to be in a relationship with him that his dad had to talk to him and he couldn't even listen to his friend talk about his relationship without getting upset. The creepy part is by the time he graduated from college he was still looking for someone just like a  sheltered 16 year old he had a crush on years earlier.

30 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

 He was obviously upset about the abrupt ending of their relationship. That happens to most people when there is no good explanation given.

Again, he was given an explanation that he should have understood. He should have understood that she was simply too young and she wasn't doing anything that needed forgiveness. "You are an adult in college and she is a sheltered 16 year old who isn't ready for a serious relationship and can only have serious relationships" is very, very simple to understand. No one should have even had to have spelled it out for him. He is acting like she did something wrong, when she didn't. He is also acting like he can't fathom why he should respect the fact that she wasn't ready for that sort of a relationship. 

33 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

He had some hurt feelings & a bruised ego & said that he had to forgive her.

That is the problem. He shouldn't have had to forgive her for anything. She did nothing to merit needing forgiveness. Disappointment I can understand, but getting this upset because someone is too young for him is ridiculous. And yes, I think a lot of it was his ego. He couldn't believe she did something he didn't like by not wanting to be in a relationship with him. We discuss a lot the attitude of entitlement patriarchy teaches young fundie men and IMO Kelton is a perfect example of this. His ego couldn't handle Josie saying she wasn't ready when he was ready. He was ready for this relationship and he took offence and blamed her because she wasn't. 

35 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

She ended the friendship with very little explanation.

What explanation should he need besides understanding that she was too young to be in that sort of a relationship? 

37 minutes ago, Naughty&nice said:

 He liked her & was sharing alot with her & thought they were friends & she cut it off.  He was not asking for more than friendship at the time.

She was 16 he was an adult in college. It shouldn't have taken a great deal of brain power to figure out why a 16 year old girl didn't want to be his best friend. Especially one who grew up with such strict rules about relationships and guys. 

I get having his feelings hurt for a brief time because he really liked her as a friend. I don't get his refusal to understand why she couldn't be his best friend or spending a year focusing on how she hurt him to the point that even his dad had to talk to him and just hearing about Tori made him think about Josie rejecting him. I don't get getting to the point where he is graduating college and is saying he only wants a woman who is exactly like a sheltered 16 year old girl. 

I do think that Josie has now consented to the relationship and probably doesn't see any red flags. I do think that it isn't a good sign that he blames her for something when she didn't nothing wrong. His ideal woman behaved like a sheltered 16 year old Josie, which might be why none of those other women worked out. Now Josie is older, but the Bates treat unmarried daughters like children. 

[Rachel333]

Uh, what is the point of posting a picture of Josie at 16? Yes, she's pretty, but does it matter what she looked like at 16?

[TeaELSee]

She was 14 or 15 years old, not 16.

[Hisey]

38 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Uh, what is the point of posting a picture of Josie at 16? Yes, she's pretty, but does it matter what she looked like at 16?

I was wondering that too. Are we supposed to be impressed with how good-looking she is? Does that change the story in some way? "Oh, she was so beautiful, well, of course he acted obsessed."

Seriously, why include a picture of Josie? Why not include one of Kelton? Don't his looks matter, too? (since obviously Josie's matter, to you, anyhow).

[LawsonBatesEgo]

3 hours ago, Naughty&nice said:

1. He asked for her phone number.   Come on guys, its called texting & all the kids are doing it.  He thought she was cute (and she was drop dead gorgeous - even at 16) & he wanted to be friends.  He might have thought something could come of it someday but he did not ask to date or court her. He was headed to college & had plans for his life. Thats not creepy.

That is not what creeps me out. It is the fact that he acts like she "wronged" him and that he had to "forgive" her that is a major red flag for me. I understand him being hurt, but I don't understand him thinking she did something wrong that meant she needed to be "forgiven" by him. He was never entitled to her friendship, time, or attention, but what he writes gives the impression he felt like he was. That worries me. Josie is young and sheltered and probably thinks it is flattering, when really, it is unnerving.

[Hisey]

3 hours ago, Naughty&nice said:

She ended the friendship with very little explanation.

We really don't know whether Josie gave a long explanation or a short one. You keep saying (5-6 times!) that she gave a short explanation, as though that were a terrible thing. Let's assume you are right, and all she said was, "I think you are too old for me."

Why is that a bad explanation? What more does he want or need?

For that matter, why do you think Josie owed him a lengthy explanation? Did she need to apologize, or talk about it for a long time or something? I mean, they'd only been talking (not dating!) for 2-3 months. Why did she owe him a long explanation?

I tell my girls the opposite. I tell them they *don't* owe guys a long explanation. I say, "'No' is a complete sentence." If my teen were dating an older boy, and she wanted to break it off, I'd *encourage* them to keep it short.

"My parents think I'm too young to be dating."

OR

"I think I'm too young to be dating you."

OR (best of all)

"You're a nice guy, but I don't want to talk on the phone anymore."

That's all she owes him. How disturbing that Kelton (and you!) felt he was owed more. How sad to put the fault on this young girl. 

 

[TatiFish9]

3 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

Maybe Josie will  follow in Erin's footsteps . remember Erin couldn't cook at all. it was a running joke in the family and now she's the best in the family and everyone wants to eat over at her house. 

the Bates Girls don't seem big on cooking in general. Alyssa and Micheal seemed to maybe enjoy it but Tori just did it because there was no one else and I believe she said she wasn't learning until she was courting someone. (Or maybe that was Carlin) either way one of them said they weren't learning until they were courting. 

Yes, you're right. I think Josie mentioned that maybe she could learn to cook well like Erin and the other kids later on. For some reason, I admire Erin for going out of her way to learn how to cook if it was important to her to do so.  

I think Erin was embarrassed when (was it Jill?)  gave her a cook book for her bridal shower because the joke was that she was a terrible cook. Now they consider her the best cook of the family. 

[TeaELSee]

6 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

think Erin was embarrassed when (was it Jill?)  gave her a cook book for her bridal shower because the joke was that she was a terrible cook. Now they consider her the best cook of the family.

I think the first season of their show her Mom got her a book, Even Blondes can Cook for Valentine’s Day. 

I’m also impressed with her cooking enthusiasm, I loved it when she told Warden he could be a chef like Bobby Flay.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

As someone who is a crappy cook, Erin learning to become a good one gives me hope and makes me want to try to learn.

[Naughty&nice]

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

But he did have a perfectly acceptable and easy to understand explanation, that she was too young for serious relationships. There was literally no way he could have spent that much time around the Bates and not realized that they didn't do casual dating, all relationships the opposite sex were very serious and were basically leading towards marriage. Even if she was in to casual dating, he should have been able to comprehend that many, many parents wouldn't want their 16 year old daughter texting and hanging out with an adult in college. This is fairly easy to comprehend, yet he acted like she wronged him in some way. 

But he did have an understanding, he just apparently refused to accept it. A year later his dad had to talk to him about moving on from Josie. Jose was a 16 year old he hung out with for a couple months. He was still upset a year later that she was unwilling to be in a relationship with him. If I head that a guy was behaving that way over my teen daughter I

They creepy part was that he feels like she did something wrong in ending the relationship because she wasn't ready. It is creepy that a year later he was still so upset over a 16 year old who he had never even dated not wanting to be in a relationship with him that his dad had to talk to him and he couldn't even listen to his friend talk about his relationship without getting upset. The creepy part is by the time he graduated from college he was still looking for someone just like a  sheltered 16 year old he had a crush on years earlier.

Again, he was given an explanation that he should have understood. He should have understood that she was simply too young and she wasn't doing anything that needed forgiveness. "You are an adult in college and she is a sheltered 16 year old who isn't ready for a serious relationship and can only have serious relationships" is very, very simple to understand. No one should have even had to have spelled it out for him. He is acting like she did something wrong, when she didn't. He is also acting like he can't fathom why he should respect the fact that she wasn't ready for that sort of a relationship. 

That is the problem. He shouldn't have had to forgive her for anything. She did nothing to merit needing forgiveness. Disappointment I can understand, but getting this upset because someone is too young for him is ridiculous. And yes, I think a lot of it was his ego. He couldn't believe she did something he didn't like by not wanting to be in a relationship with him. We discuss a lot the attitude of entitlement patriarchy teaches young fundie men and IMO Kelton is a perfect example of this. His ego couldn't handle Josie saying she wasn't ready when he was ready. He was ready for this relationship and he took offence and blamed her because she wasn't. 

What explanation should he need besides understanding that she was too young to be in that sort of a relationship? 

She was 16 he was an adult in college. It shouldn't have taken a great deal of brain power to figure out why a 16 year old girl didn't want to be his best friend. Especially one who grew up with such strict rules about relationships and guys. 

I get having his feelings hurt for a brief time because he really liked her as a friend. I don't get his refusal to understand why she couldn't be his best friend or spending a year focusing on how she hurt him to the point that even his dad had to talk to him and just hearing about Tori made him think about Josie rejecting him. I don't get getting to the point where he is graduating college and is saying he only wants a woman who is exactly like a sheltered 16 year old girl. 

I do think that Josie has now consented to the relationship and probably doesn't see any red flags. I do think that it isn't a good sign that he blames her for something when she didn't nothing wrong. His ideal woman behaved like a sheltered 16 year old Josie, which might be why none of those other women worked out. Now Josie is older, but the Bates treat unmarried daughters like children. 

She doesnt see red flags because there arent any.   You are refusing to accept a few facts:

They started talking over the summer & continued texting & talking after he went to college.  This was a 4-6 month friendship that she abruptly ended without explanation.  Im sure they had gotten pretty close texting everyday like  most kids do now.  Her parents did NOT sit him down & put an end to this.

She ended it. (Probably partly  because she didnt want to get deeply involved with a guy who was away at college for the next 4 years when there was no way her parents would let them date & rightly so.  She’s a pretty smart cookie. You should give her some credit.  I would have done the same thing if i was her, to keep myself from getting hurt) Explaining to him that she didnt want to get her heart broken would have been embarrassing so she didn’t give much explanation at all.  He was hurt.  (Have you ever dated?? This is a pretty common senario. Not getting closure when a relationship ends is painful) 

The conversation with his dad & issues with jealousy with bobby&tori were not a year later.  You are  reading into what he said & getting mixed up.  He just said they did not talk or see each other for a year.  I imagine in the month or two after the end of the friendship, while he was working out the why, he talked to his Dad.  Give the poor kid a break.

 He’s jumped thru 1000 hoops to court her, talked about her not himself when he gave that courtship speech, didnt sing on TV (praise the Lord), took her to a place shes always wanted to go to get engaged, put a very decent rock on her finger, has a fulltime job, supports her working, & brags about her on instagram constantly.

you are making the rest of us defend him too much.  Its exhausting.

 

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

I was wondering that too. Are we supposed to be impressed with how good-looking she is? Does that change the story in some way? "Oh, she was so beautiful, well, of course he acted obsessed."

Seriously, why include a picture of Josie? Why not include one of Kelton? Don't his looks matter, too? (since obviously Josie's matter, to you, anyhow).

The picture was simply to show that she is a beautiful grown up looking 16 year old girl.  Not some child in pigtails who cant see danger coming.  Its not impossible to believe that a guy would find her attractive & like her. Some of you are talking like he molested her.

[Naughty&nice]

1 hour ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

That is not what creeps me out. It is the fact that he acts like she "wronged" him and that he had to "forgive" her that is a major red flag for me. I understand him being hurt, but I don't understand him thinking she did something wrong that meant she needed to be "forgiven" by him. He was never entitled to her friendship, time, or attention, but what he writes gives the impression he felt like he was. That worries me. Josie is young and sheltered and probably thinks it is flattering, when really, it is unnerving.

You dont understand that when she ended a 6 month friendship without explaining why, he would be hurt & offended?

You are right. He was not entitled to her friendship, time or attention, but she gave it to him for a while & then stopped.  He said (quoting here) “ I didnt understand why Josie ended what was just beginning” How is that statement not clear?  He obviously did not get any explanations.

[TatiFish9]

1 hour ago, TeaELSee said:

I think the first season of their show her Mom got her a book, Even Blondes can Cook for Valentine’s Day. 

I’m also impressed with her cooking enthusiasm, I loved it when she told Warden he could be a chef like Bobby Flay.

I didn't see that one.  So cool of Kelly. Kind of funny, too.  Was it on United Bates of America or Bringing up Bates? Kelly seems really close to Erin. She often mentions that Erin is most like her. Gil also commented that Kelly and Erin are similar.

I found the clip I was talking about.

Erin gets a cooking kit

It was a cooking basket given by all the Duggar girls (not just Jill) for a bridal gift. Taking a look at it now, I have a strong feeling  Jana was the mastermind behind that project with maybe a few suggestions from all the older girls. lol Jill went out of her way to soften the blow by adding that they put some of their own recipes in there along with take out menus. They were wrong for that. lol Erin seemed embarrassed but took it well. 

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

I didn't see that one.  So cool of Kelly. Kind of funny, too.  Was it on United Bates of America or Bringing up Bates? Kelly seems really close to Erin. She often mentions that Erin is most like her. Gil also commented that Kelly and Erin are similar.

I found the clip I was talking about.

Erin gets a cooking kit

It was a cooking basket given by all the Duggar girls (not just Jill) for a bridal gift. Taking a look at it now, I have a strong feeling  Jana was the mastermind behind that project with maybe a few suggestions from all the older girls. lol Jill went out of her way to soften the blow by adding that they put some of their own recipes in there along with take out menu. They were wrong for that. lol Erin seemed embarrassed but took it well. 

 

I don't think they meant it to be mean. they did the same thing when Joy got married or something similar they even gave her a smoke alarm and fire extinguisher 

[TatiFish9]

lol!!! at Joy's gift. I remember a hard hat  full of signatures (was that for them?) but I didn'trealize they gave her a fire extinguisher and alarm.

Yes, I think they were just jesting regarding Erin. But the take out menus were kind of a low blow considering the fundie wife's purpose is to keep house well with *homemade* cooking being a top priority. However, Erin responded well to the gift because she knew it was a joke.

[Ivycoveredtower]

6 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

lol!!! at Joy's gift. I remember a hard hat  full of signatures (was that for them?) but I didn'trealize they gave her a fire extinguisher and alarm.

Yes, I think they were just jesting regarding Erin. But the take out menus were kind of a low blow considering the fundie wife's purpose is to keep house well with *homemade* cooking being a top priority. However, Erin responded well to the gift because she knew it was a joke.

the funny thing is that may be there stance but none of them seem to be able to cook prior to marriage. Alyssa and Micheal being the exceptions. and most of them still can't cook things if they don't come out of a box or a can after marriage. Erin being the exception. Jessa is getting better and Jill still puts up nauseating recopies. 

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Naughty&nice said:

You dont understand that when she ended a 6 month friendship without explaining why, he would be hurt & offended?

You are right. He was not entitled to her friendship, time or attention, but she gave it to him for a while & then stopped.  He said (quoting here) “ I didnt understand why Josie ended what was just beginning” How is that statement not clear?  He obviously did not get any explanations.

People say, "I don't understand" for many reasons. In this case, it seems clear he was saying "I didn't want to understand."

Funny, though, the way you keep blaming Josie for things. 

[TatiFish9]

9 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

the funny thing is that may be there stance but none of them seem to be able to cook prior to marriage. Alyssa and Micheal being the exceptions. and most of them still can't cook things if they don't come out of a box or a can after marriage. Erin being the exception. Jessa is getting better and Jill still puts up nauseating recopies. 

I think they only know how to cook quickie meals that are convenient for many people to eat at one time. Even among fundies, they come from an insanely large family. Now theyre in their own homes attempting to cook chickem and steak dinners for less than 5 people. That's going to take a huge adjustment.

I wonder if the joke swere on Erin because they bothered her so much or because the eldest girls of both families were pretty good cooks besides her. Just typing this makes me sad how they slaved these girls. These were some hard working young women especially Michaela and Jana.

[Hisey]

1 hour ago, Naughty&nice said:

 

The picture was simply to show that she is a beautiful grown up looking 16 year old girl.  Not some child in pigtails who cant see danger coming.  Its not impossible to believe that a guy would find her attractive & like her. Some of you are talking like he molested her.

The fact that she is beautiful doesn't mean anything. Plenty of beautiful girls are also very innocent, and plenty have no desire for a relationship with an older boy. 

Are you saying that a beautiful girl can't be molested by an older boy? Do you mean a beautiful girl is better able to "see danger coming" by virtue of her looks? You mean that if she's pretty, it's not molestation--but it would be with an awkward, pigtailed 16-year old? Huh?

The fact that a guy could like her means. . . it's OK for him to cross lines and boundaries? You mean she asked for him to behave badly, because she is cute?

What are you saying, exactly?

Josie's looks say nothing about how she felt inside. Her looks say nothing about her desire to engage with Kelton. 

[Rachel333]

Wow, the fact that she looked grown up should have absolutely no bearing here. Forget about Josie and Kelton, I'm beyond disgusted that someone is seriously using that argument here at all. Even if a girl looks like an adult a man should back off once he finds out her age. It does not matter what a child looks like!

Seriously, even those of you who see nothing wrong with Kelton's behavior should be able to see that it is incredibly inappropriate to use a girl's appearance as proof that it would be okay for her to be in a relationship with an adult man. You shouldn't support that kind of rhetoric just because the poster agrees with you overall.