Josie and Kelton 2: Kelton Gets His Happily Ever After

[nastyhobbitses]

When I was 16, I had a fling with a 23-year-old guy. I thought I was so cool and mature because an Older Boy liked me and told me I was pretty and clearly wanted to have sex with me (though he couched it with "if you were 19..."). My parents found out, made us have a painfully awkward parent-supervised movie date (which was genius of them in retrospect), and then ordered me to break it off. At first I was mad at them because They Didn't Understand Our Love, but....yeah, he was a creepy dude and to be honest, a grown man wanting to date a girl who was still in high school is WEIRD. He wasn't 18 and fresh out of school or even 19 and still in college; he was a grown man with a full-time job. Mack on someone your own size. 

Now, ironically, I'm in my twenties and my boyfriend is in his forties, but we met when I was 24 and he was 39. WORLD of difference. I was 3 years out of college, had been working and living abroad since graduating, was working on an advanced degree, and had 8 more years of life on me. At this point, the only time the age gap is a problem is pop culture references. And when people mock me for being a sugar baby (even though I make more than him). 

For age gaps, I think at a certain point it's less about numbers and more about life stages and experience. A high school junior dating a college freshman makes me think that a breakup is imminent once college freshman goes to like three frat parties, but they're within the same life-stage ballpark. Not that creepy. In my examples from my love life, a 16-year-old in high school is at a very different life stage from a 23-year-old who has finished school and works full-time. Creepy. But a 24-year-old who has worked full-time jobs and is getting an advanced degree is much closer to where a 39-year-old professional is in terms of life stages. Not creepy. With Josie and Kelton, I'm on the fence. I think that him meeting her/being interested in her when she was 13 changes the game for me, because 17 and 13 are VERY different in terms of development. If, at 17, I had a friend who was dating or attracted to a 13-year-old, I'd think he/she was a massive creep. A four year age gap is pretty meaningless when you're both in your twenties, but it's a CHASM when you're young. He had the good sense to wait, but that's so...medieval. Like putting off the royal wedding until the princess hits puberty. If they'd met later, I'd still think he was a bit too old for her, but it wouldn't be half as fucking weird. 

[QuiverDance]

Deleted.

[eveandadam]

8 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

When I was 16, I had a fling with a 23-year-old guy. I thought I was so cool and mature because an Older Boy liked me and told me I was pretty and clearly wanted to have sex with me (though he couched it with "if you were 19..."). My parents found out, made us have a painfully awkward parent-supervised movie date (which was genius of them in retrospect), and then ordered me to break it off. At first I was mad at them because They Didn't Understand Our Love, but....yeah, he was a creepy dude and to be honest, a grown man wanting to date a girl who was still in high school is WEIRD. He wasn't 18 and fresh out of school or even 19 and still in college; he was a grown man with a full-time job. Mack on someone your own size. 

Now, ironically, I'm in my twenties and my boyfriend is in his forties, but we met when I was 24 and he was 39. WORLD of difference. I was 3 years out of college, had been working and living abroad since graduating, was working on an advanced degree, and had 8 more years of life on me. At this point, the only time the age gap is a problem is pop culture references. And when people mock me for being a sugar baby (even though I make more than him). 

For age gaps, I think at a certain point it's less about numbers and more about life stages and experience. A high school junior dating a college freshman makes me think that a breakup is imminent once college freshman goes to like three frat parties, but they're within the same life-stage ballpark. Not that creepy. In my examples from my love life, a 16-year-old in high school is at a very different life stage from a 23-year-old who has finished school and works full-time. Creepy. But a 24-year-old who has worked full-time jobs and is getting an advanced degree is much closer to where a 39-year-old professional is in terms of life stages. Not creepy. With Josie and Kelton, I'm on the fence. I think that him meeting her/being interested in her when she was 13 changes the game for me, because 17 and 13 are VERY different in terms of development. If, at 17, I had a friend who was dating or attracted to a 13-year-old, I'd think he/she was a massive creep. A four year age gap is pretty meaningless when you're both in your twenties, but it's a CHASM when you're young. He had the good sense to wait, but that's so...medieval. Like putting off the royal wedding until the princess hits puberty. If they'd met later, I'd still think he was a bit too old for her, but it wouldn't be half as fucking weird. 

A close friend of mine was 13 when she dated an 18 year old, which is actually illegal here. They are still together 20 years later and married with children but he had so much more experience than her that he changed her into who he wanted her to be instead letting her grow into herself. In retrospect, I think it would have been better if she had dated boys her age and later married somebody else instead of him. Creepy creepy creepy in hindsight! I'm still mad at him for changing my friend into an unrecognizable stepford housewife.

[front hugs > duggs]

@nastyhobbitses I 100% agree with you and am not normalizing the Kelton-Josie situation at all. However, taking a step back from their specific situation, these life stages for fundies happen slightly different with their home schooling I feel like. They have several kids at different ages, yet at the same grade to make schooling easier. Most recently we saw Lauren (Swanson) Duggar doing her dual enrollment at a university with her little sister. To be honest, I’m not sure if Lauren and Lily’s age difference, but they look like they could be about 4 years apart. 

If Kelton was schooling with his younger siblings, and Josie more with her older siblings, I could kind of see when they first met that they would actually be in the same life stage at 13 vs. 17. Both living at home in sheltered social circles helping in part to take care of their families.  

??‍♀️

[wandering woman]

A thirteen year old and a seventeen year old are not at the same life stage no matter what the circumstances.

[Daisy0322]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:28 AM, nastyhobbitses said:

When I was 16, I had a fling with a 23-year-old guy. I thought I was so cool and mature because an Older Boy liked me and told me I was pretty and clearly wanted to have sex with me (though he couched it with "if you were 19..."). My parents found out, made us have a painfully awkward parent-supervised movie date (which was genius of them in retrospect), and then ordered me to break it off. At first I was mad at them because They Didn't Understand Our Love, but....yeah, he was a creepy dude and to be honest, a grown man wanting to date a girl who was still in high school is WEIRD. He wasn't 18 and fresh out of school or even 19 and still in college; he was a grown man with a full-time job. Mack on someone your own size. 

Now, ironically, I'm in my twenties and my boyfriend is in his forties, but we met when I was 24 and he was 39. WORLD of difference. I was 3 years out of college, had been working and living abroad since graduating, was working on an advanced degree, and had 8 more years of life on me. At this point, the only time the age gap is a problem is pop culture references. And when people mock me for being a sugar baby (even though I make more than him). 

For age gaps, I think at a certain point it's less about numbers and more about life stages and experience. A high school junior dating a college freshman makes me think that a breakup is imminent once college freshman goes to like three frat parties, but they're within the same life-stage ballpark. Not that creepy. In my examples from my love life, a 16-year-old in high school is at a very different life stage from a 23-year-old who has finished school and works full-time. Creepy. Snip

When I was 17 I dated a 26 year old bull rider .... my parents didn't see an issue but that's a different story lol. I knew he only wanted sex but that's pretty much all I wanted to. I'd go watch him ride we went on real dates. I actually learned a lot about how grown men dated but we were never serious. It was definitely creepy in retrospect but I do think it was a different angle than most relationships with that kind of age gap. I seriously called the shots though I don't think he was use to high school level of girl crazy. 

[nickelodeon]

On 9/1/2018 at 7:00 PM, Naughty&nice said:

i think some of these posters, who are bullying anyone with a contrary opinion,  are cherry picking this story to fit their  “all fundie men are misogynist jerks” narrative.

Subscribing to a religious movement predicated on female servility, suffering, and dehumanization makes Kelton a misogynist jerk. This story just makes him a loser who gets upset when he can't have a 16-year-old girlfriend.

[picklepizzas]

Interesting. My take on this story was totally different - mostly because the entire time I was comparing it favorably to other courtship stories that i've read here (most recently, john and chelsy maxwell). I was so relieved that he could describe his interest in josie without using the word "godly" or in fact ever describing her heart for the lord. he was actually just interested in her, and not her father (cough bontrager boys) or just shopping around for a wife (cough austin and john maxwell).  I was also relieved to see a story in which he communicated with her rather than mostly with her family - he actually says "I asked her about her feelings" at one point, and when he wants to reach out to restart the relationship, he texted her, not her dad.  I certainly didn't leave this story with the sense of despair i left kendalynn's (who not only seemed to not like the guy but also had her med school dreams crushed). 

is my bar just way too low for these people? maybe. but i certainly liked the parts of the story that emphasized the communication between them, the fact that they seem to enjoy doing things other than just admiring each others' hearts for the lord, etc. 

but fyi I do think she's way too young to be married (and yes, joy and kendra and lauren were, too). 

[is.it.real]

I’ve been listening to Kitchen Table Cult. I’ve learnt so much! The first episode has a bit of bad sound quality, but there is so much content, and I’ve gotten new perspectives in every episode.

http:// https://www.google.se/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/FundieSnark/comments/984xeq/kitchen_table_cult_podcast_amazingly_informative/

But at the same time I want the individuals in this “religion” to have a happy life, and to be able to find ways to express their desires despite their patriarchal headship beliefs. And I’m hoping the girls are in New York for a wedding dress for Josie. Well, because I want it for her!

http://

Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

[BeccaGrim]

So I bet you the NYC trip is about Josie getting away before the wedding. Also, look at upset people are getting on this thread. We don't usually yell in Bates-land. This is like a Duggar post! 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

I don't think they're dress shopping in NYC, it's less than a month away from the wedding! I honestly really hope this is like a girls-weekend bachelorette, a more private/upscale version of the beach thingy they dragged the whole family out for for Tori lol. If so, good for Josie and Whitney and Carlin. 

[BunnyBee]

3 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

I don't think they're dress shopping in NYC, it's less than a month away from the wedding! I honestly really hope this is like a girls-weekend bachelorette, a more private/upscale version of the beach thingy they dragged the whole family out for for Tori lol. If so, good for Josie and Whitney and Carlin. 

If it is Josie's bachelorette party then I feel even more sorry for Tori who seemed absolutely miserable during hers. I feel like Josie might be a little favored but KJ and Gill. She gets to marry before Carlin and gets the bachelorette party she actually wanted. 

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

1 hour ago, BunnyBee said:

If it is Josie's bachelorette party then I feel even more sorry for Tori who seemed absolutely miserable during hers. I feel like Josie might be a little favored but KJ and Gill. She gets to marry before Carlin and gets the bachelorette party she actually wanted. 

I feel like Kelly shows favoritism at different points to different girls. Erin is clearly KJ junior, Alyssa the parents are constantly gushing over because she ran the whole house for them, Michael is the genuinely sweet little fundie wife, Tori is the "teacher" that Kelly loves, and it seems like she's been trying to live vicariously/relive her youth via Carlin and Josie. I think for now Carlin's drawn the short end of the stick...

[Thorns]

#girlstrip

#GirlStrip 

#GirlsTrip

#spellingmatters #guesswhatIread 

[Kangaroo]

It doesn't matter that girlstrip, because jesuslovesthemall!

 

[squiddysquid]

On 9/2/2018 at 5:50 PM, eveandadam said:

A close friend of mine was 13 when she dated an 18 year old, which is actually illegal here. They are still together 20 years later and married with children but he had so much more experience than her that he changed her into who he wanted her to be instead letting her grow into herself. In retrospect, I think it would have been better if she had dated boys her age and later married somebody else instead of him. Creepy creepy creepy in hindsight! I'm still mad at him for changing my friend into an unrecognizable stepford housewife.

This!

One of my college peers dated a 15 year old (though she acted quite younger, bit like Carlin) in his freshman year at 19. Not at the same level at all, there were a lot of WTF moments. Now he is a doctor and dates a 20-year-old. It's starting to get creepy.

But your reasoning explains A LOT.

[ihaveanexamintwodays]

18 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

I don't think they're dress shopping in NYC, it's less than a month away from the wedding! I honestly really hope this is like a girls-weekend bachelorette, a more private/upscale version of the beach thingy they dragged the whole family out for for Tori lol. If so, good for Josie and Whitney and Carlin. 

*while i'm sure they aren't dress-shopping, i do hope they are...

 

PANTS SHOPPING! ?

 

I know, I know, pants mean nothing to fundie beliefs....but those gals are clearly so not of the "I define my femininity by wearing womanly clothing" line....lol

[haroldtheyrefundies]

Kinda off topic... but I just watched the newest episodes of series 7 (which btw I'm glad it's ending at the end of the month) and I was watching the chaperone episode and I noticed that when Josie and Katie went over to Kelton's house I noticed that Kelton went to Josie and gave her a full on hug and gave Katie a side hug. I know the Bates kids are able to set up their own rules since Michaela and Brendon also did full hugs but it was still really nice to see since some fundie couples still do side hugs during engagements. You can tell that the younger couples are starting to get tired with the normal courtship system and are mostly doing it for their parents/tv show. 

[habert]

15 hours ago, ihaveanexamintwodays said:

I feel like Kelly shows favoritism at different points to different girls. Erin is clearly KJ junior, Alyssa the parents are constantly gushing over because she ran the whole house for them, Michael is the genuinely sweet little fundie wife, Tori is the "teacher" that Kelly loves, and it seems like she's been trying to live vicariously/relive her youth via Carlin and Josie. I think for now Carlin's drawn the short end of the stick...

The Bates (ie Kelly) really have in the past few years promoted different kids as sort of the debutants of the family if you will. For awhile it was like Lawson+Carlin+Josie, but now with Josie getting married and whatever the heck is going on with Carlin, Trace is starting to get more attention in social media (it doesn’t hurt that he was awkward for a long time and he’s really grown into his features this year) and Katie is starting to get some spotlight too (especially via Josie and Lawson) but she’s still sorta young. I don’t think Tori ever got that attention, but I also don’t think Tori wanted it and I think Kelly is savvy enough to not push an uncooperative kid. Same with Nathan who’s just been doing his own thing for awhile it seems.

edit to add that I do think that especially Lawson, Carlin, and Josie’s insta accounts are all coordinated with Bates Family account. It’s all PR.

[eleanora3]

Do we know any wedding details yet? I know Tori's wedding theme and colors were released beforehand.

[llucie]

10 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

Do we know any wedding details yet? I know Tori's wedding theme and colors were released beforehand.

We dont. We knew Toris because she had no problem talking about it when asked in the lives, but Josie has said she prefers to keep it a surprise.

[Thorns]

Kinda binge-watching after a long shift at work, and back in season 2 Josie said she wanted green for (one of?) the colors. It was in a talking head were Michaellas color choice was discussed. And Katie (?) had a little snarky comment of "when it is my turn all the good colors will be gone".

Green would be so pretty for a wedding  Let's see if she has changed her mind during the years ?

[BlessaYourHeart]

5 hours ago, Thorns said:

Kinda binge-watching after a long shift at work, and back in season 2 Josie said she wanted green for (one of?) the colors. It was in a talking head were Michaellas color choice was discussed. And Katie (?) had a little snarky comment of "when it is my turn all the good colors will be gone".

Green would be so pretty for a wedding  Let's see if she has changed her mind during the years ?

My main wedding colour (bridesmaids etc) is green...I don’t want to share it with a Bates. But I guess if I’m going to share them with any of them Josie’s the best option 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

No comments on the proposal episode yet? I have to say, I was really impressed by Kelton’s multi-part charm bracelet proposal idea. It’s more thoughtful than most people would be. Also, some people commented here that he shouldn’t have taken her away from work, but her employer was clearly aware and okay with it.

[Kelsey]

2 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

No comments on the proposal episode yet? I have to say, I was really impressed by Kelton’s multi-part charm bracelet proposal idea. It’s more thoughtful than most people would be. Also, some people commented here that he shouldn’t have taken her away from work, but her employer was clearly aware and okay with it.

Was the proposal on Thursday's episode? I haven't been able to watch it yet because Amazon hasn't made it available.