Border Patrol Disasters

[Toothfairy]

They're absuing these kids. So sad. And someone said they might adopt them out. Sadly, many of these kids will never see their families ever again. 

[Howl]

Yes, I have a horrible fear that these children and parents are not being adequately tracked and it will result in them having no way to find their way back to each other.  

I've not made any secret of my fawning adoration of Republican media strategist and Never Trumper Rick Wilson and have posted links to some of his op-eds and tweets.  He's also a frequent (and very salty) guest on various CNN shows.  Here's a CNN clip of Rick Wilson decimating Trump surrogate Jason Miller last night on Anderson Cooper's 360.  There's some serious talking over, but stay with it.

[AmazonGrace]

 

[Drala]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bills-house-vote-this-week_us_5b2981e7e4b0a4dc9921f022

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-family-separations-children_us_5b2960cfe4b05d6c16c867a8

Seems pretty clear to me that Trump took these kids hostage as leverage for getting his border wall funded by the House. Trump is a ruthless, despicable thug, and it looks like he's in a position to strong-arm the Republican congressional majority into pushing through legislation that suits him.  I don't like to see the Senate Dems stonewalling this, because they could be in a position to get compromise legislation through that chamber.  Why not form a coalition that gives Senate Republicans a way to push back on some of the president's demands?   As long as the Senate succeeds in doing nothing, Herr Drumph holds all the cards.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Drala

[fraurosena]

13 minutes ago, Drala said:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/immigration-bills-house-vote-this-week_us_5b2981e7e4b0a4dc9921f022

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-family-separations-children_us_5b2960cfe4b05d6c16c867a8

Seems pretty clear to me that Trump took these kids hostage as leverage for getting his border wall funded by the House. Trump is a ruthless, despicable thug, and it looks like he's in a position to strong-arm the Republican congressional majority into pushing through legislation that suits him.  I don't like to see the Senate Dems stonewalling this, because they could be in a position to get compromise legislation through that chamber.  Why not form a coalition that gives Senate Republicans a way to push back on some of the president's demands?   As long as the Senate succeeds in doing nothing, Herr Drumph holds all the cards.

But... but that would mean working with the ebil librul Dems! Can't have that happening. Not even for little kids.

[candygirl200413]

@Drala So my understanding is that Senate Dems have the stop separating in their bill. House and some senate republicans just want to continue funding to expedite the process of deporting them back to their country. Some senate republicans have talked about its disasters but won't sign on with the Dems. I think they only need like 2 repugs to sign on too!

@samira_catlover I woke up with the deplorable supporters how this is all fake and lies and that all of the immigrants coming here are disgusting people and I couldn't stop yelling at my tv. 

[GreyhoundFan]

I have a feeling this is for show: "Trump reverses course, says he will put an end to family separations on southern border"

Spoiler

President Trump abruptly reversed course Wednesday, saying he would sign an executive order ending family separations at the U.S.-Mexico border after a public uproar over his administration’s “zero tolerance” immigration policy.

The plan, as described by administration officials, would keep families together in federal custody while awaiting prosecution for illegal border crossings, potentially violating a 1997 court settlement limiting the duration of child detentions.

“We have to be very strong on the border but at the same time we want to be very compassionate,” Trump said at the White House during a meeting with lawmakers that was opened to the media.

Trump had repeatedly defended his immigration crackdown, including forcibly separating migrant children from their parents after they crossed the border. But images of young children in tears, housed in metal cages, set off an international outcry.

For days, Trump and his top administration officials were unwilling to unilaterally reverse the separation policy and insisted that congressional action was required.

The inaction sparked international outrage, including criticism from Pope Francis and opposition from world leaders.

Trump’s remarks came shortly after House Republican leaders vowed to bring broader immigration legislation up for votes Thursday to address the crisis, despite widespread skepticism that a bill could pass.

“I’ll be doing something that’s somewhat preemptive and ultimately will be matched by legislation, I’m sure,” Trump said at the White House, adding that he would still like to see Congress take action later.

One administration official said Trump’s order would end separations by keeping families together in immigration detention centers.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operates two large detention centers for families in Texas and a smaller one in Pennsylvania, but their combined capacity is about 3,000 beds.

As of mid-June, the three centers were nearly full, meaning ICE would potentially need to place children in its much larger network of immigration jails for adults.

That would most likely violate the 1997 “Flores Settlement” agreement that limits the government’s ability to keep children in detention.

A subsequent ruling in 2016 required the government to release underage migrants from immigration detention within 72 hours and place them in the “least restrictive” settings possible, while generally barring the government from keeping children in family detention centers for more than 20 days.

An administration official with knowledge of the plan indicated that the Trump administration was anticipating lawsuits and preparing to litigate Flores in court, particularly if lawmakers fail to approve a legislative fix.

 

[AmazonGrace]

 

 

[candygirl200413]

 

[BernRul]

This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. This is the next logical step after spouting "zero tolerance" "deport all illegals" "illegal aliens" "illegals are criminals" "if they didn't want to be deported they shouldn't have broken the law" "they're rapists and gangbangers."

Illegal immigrants have  been scapegoats for decades. Most of them are decent people who just want a better life, but we treat them like animals. I've seen this for years. What did anyone honestly expect was going to happen after we've tolerated that kind of talk for so long? After so many politicans have riled people up over it? 

ICE has been seperating children from their parents for years. ICE has been deporting parents for years. This is what they are. They have always been like this. Now people don't have the luxury of out of sight and out of mind. But I can assure you, as someone who has illegal immigrant family memebers and friends, that this has been happening for years.

If you support "zero tolerance" policies towards immigrants, this is on you. If you have ever said "illegal immigrants should be deported" without sparing a thought for the children and families involved, this is on you. We as a society have allowed this to happen. This didn't happen in a vacuum. This is the next logical step when you support this kind of policy. 

Funny, but the posters here who were so vocal about deporting immigrants when I first joined are awfully quiet now. 

Jeff Sessions has always been like this. He had a fucking smirk on his face when he announced that DACA was ending. I had to watch that sadistic fuck smile on the worst day of my life. The only good thing is that now people can finally see him for the monster that he is. Maybe now we'll be outraged enough to actually change. 

It's heartening to see the outrage over this, but I hope everyone knows--this isn't unAmerican. This is America. It's what we've been doing all along, what we've supported all along when we demonized and vilified immigrants. Only difference is now we're finally seeing it. 

Not fucking pretty, is it? 

 

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

Funny, but the posters here who were so vocal about deporting immigrants when I first joined are awfully quiet now. 

Maybe it's my memory, but I don't actually remember any posters here calling for deporting immigrants.  If there really were people here calling for deportations, they are probably quiet now because they were outnumbered and out-argued by more compassionate posters.

Most here have repeatedly expressed increasing fears and outrage over what the current administration is doing and some have already pointed out that these policies did not spring up overnight out of the blue.

I will agree that many of us have been blind to how bad things have been, but our eyes are opening  now. Be angry and cynical if that is how you feel, but please try not to lash out at people who are essentially on your side.

 

[fraurosena]

When it's put into a visual image, it's pretty confronting, isn't it?

Anyone not outraged by this is less than human.

[Audrey2]

Does anyone else feel like we've been played? This seems to follow Trump's pattern.

1. Choose a law on the books that is being enforced.

2. Ratchet it up and begin enforcing it in the most draconian way possible.

3. Fan the flames of people's outrage. Get FOX to defend the draconian measures. Bonus points if you can also blame Obama, Hillary, or Nancy Pelosi.

4. Sign an executive order backing off from the draconian measures and tell everyone that you are the "Great White Savior" (an awful phrase with despicable connotations, but, sadly, does describe Trump's attitude most accurately.

5. Declare victory.

6. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[AmazonGrace]

 

[hoipolloi]

Have been enraged and sickened for days now by these crimes against humanity, perpetrated in my name and by my country. Already a member of the ACLU, I donated to RAICES and felt a tiny bit of good.

Apart from the fact that the US has truly evil and vile people in charge, WHY is this happening?

Take a look at this Twitter post & replies by ALT-Immigration:

Not only are we talking BIG contract money, double-dealing ex-Federal staffers who ooze into high-paying contract jobs, and major R campaign donations, guess what else comes up, as noted by a couple of responses to the initial tweet? #WhereAreTheBabies?

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

 

 

 

[BernRul]

1 hour ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

Maybe it's my memory, but I don't actually remember any posters here calling for deporting immigrants.  If there really were people here calling for deportations, they are probably quiet now because they were outnumbered and out-argued by more compassionate posters.

Most here have repeatedly expressed increasing fears and outrage over what the current administration is doing and some have already pointed out that these policies did not spring up overnight out of the blue.

I will agree that many of us have been blind to how bad things have been, but our eyes are opening  now. Be angry and cynical if that is how you feel, but please try not to lash out at people who are essentially on your side.

 

There was a discussion a couple of months back where two posters explicitly said they thought all illegal immigrants should be deported. Most people disagreed with them.

I hope you don't think I'm attacking FJ in general, because I'm not. Most people here are wonderful people who both teach me new things and are willing to learn from each other. I apologise if it sounded like I was attacking people on this forum.

I just hope that people who are outraged now (rightly so) don't think this is a one off thing. It's not.

If I sound cynical, it's because I've been involved in immigration rights for about a decade. I've just seen too many evil things that ordinary people let slide.

Edited June 20, 2018 by BernRul

[fraurosena]

It looks like @GreyhoundFan's prediction was true. It's a fake rescinding of the policy. Just read Walter Shaub's thread...

 

[fraurosena]

Sweet Rufus.

Does this nullify the EXecutive Order now? 

[BernRul]

If I sounded angry before (and again, I apologise if anyone felt that that was directed at them) it's because the damage has already been done to these poor innocent children. Many won't ever see their parents again. Some have been sexually abused. All are psychologically abused. Some will die if this continues.

On the DREAM Act website, users are already calling them the next generation of dreamers.

And for what? Because conservatives complained about catch and release? Because Trump won? Because "illegal" have been easy punching bags for unhappy adults?

There's no reason it had to happen, but the seeds have been in place for a while. And when a country commits crimes against humanity, I think all of us in that country are responsible in a way. I've been feeling so powerless about it, wondering what more I could have done.

I am hopeful that people are finally waking up. I'm hopeful that we can learn from this and do better. But after ten years, I've also seen too much suffering not to get angry. Call me cynical if you want. But I have hpe we can look at the root cause as a country, accept responsibility, and finally, finally fix the situation-- if we are finally honest about why it happened.

[Destiny]

2 hours ago, PreciousPantsofDoom said:

Maybe it's my memory, but I don't actually remember any posters here calling for deporting immigrants.  If there really were people here calling for deportations, they are probably quiet now because they were outnumbered and out-argued by more compassionate posters.

Most here have repeatedly expressed increasing fears and outrage over what the current administration is doing and some have already pointed out that these policies did not spring up overnight out of the blue.

I will agree that many of us have been blind to how bad things have been, but our eyes are opening  now. Be angry and cynical if that is how you feel, but please try not to lash out at people who are essentially on your side.

All of the many lives of PPS have, but other than that, I can't think of anyone. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Destiny said:

All of the many lives of PPS have, but other than that, I can't think of anyone. 

I can think of two current posters off the top of my head, the same two @BernRulalluded too. I remember reading through that discussion. It wasn’t pretty. 

Anyways, which Departments do we harass now? I called the DOJ comment line this morning to tell Sessions he’s a shitty Christian and horrible human being. Who else do I get to annoy now?

1 hour ago, BernRul said:

If I sounded angry before (and again, I apologise if anyone felt that that was directed at them) it's because the damage has already been done to these poor innocent children. Many won't ever see their parents again. Some have been sexually abused. All are psychologically abused. Some will die if this continues.

On the DREAM Act website, users are already calling them the next generation of dreamers.

And for what? Because conservatives complained about catch and release? Because Trump won? Because "illegal" have been easy punching bags for unhappy adults?

There's no reason it had to happen, but the seeds have been in place for a while. And when a country commits crimes against humanity, I think all of us in that country are responsible in a way. I've been feeling so powerless about it, wondering what more I could have done.

I am hopeful that people are finally waking up. I'm hopeful that we can learn from this and do better. But after ten years, I've also seen too much suffering not to get angry. Call me cynical if you want. But I have hpe we can look at the root cause as a country, accept responsibility, and finally, finally fix the situation-- if we are finally honest about why it happened.

Don’t worry, you’re fine. People should be as angry as you are. If they aren’t it’s either because they don’t really understand what’s happening or they’re horrible people. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by VelociRapture

[Howl]

10 hours ago, Howl said:

Yes, I have a horrible fear that these children and parents are not being adequately tracked and it will result in them having no way to find their way back to each other.  

Well, my horrible fear is realized.  I heard a Mexican consular official stationed in San Antonio discussing this a few minutes ago on NPR.  Apparently, separate files are opened for the children and the parents; this seems to be an on-the-fly process with no clear understanding of how parents and children will be tracked and reunited.  

[onekidanddone]

4 hours ago, BernRul said:

This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. This is the next logical step after spouting "zero tolerance" "deport all illegals" "illegal aliens" "illegals are criminals" "if they didn't want to be deported they shouldn't have broken the law" "they're rapists and gangbangers."

Illegal immigrants have  been scapegoats for decades. Most of them are decent people who just want a better life, but we treat them like animals. I've seen this for years. What did anyone honestly expect was going to happen after we've tolerated that kind of talk for so long? After so many politicans have riled people up over it? 

ICE has been seperating children from their parents for years. ICE has been deporting parents for years. This is what they are. They have always been like this. Now people don't have the luxury of out of sight and out of mind. But I can assure you, as someone who has illegal immigrant family memebers and friends, that this has been happening for years.

If you support "zero tolerance" policies towards immigrants, this is on you. If you have ever said "illegal immigrants should be deported" without sparing a thought for the children and families involved, this is on you. We as a society have allowed this to happen. This didn't happen in a vacuum. This is the next logical step when you support this kind of policy. 

Funny, but the posters here who were so vocal about deporting immigrants when I first joined are awfully quiet now. 

Jeff Sessions has always been like this. He had a fucking smirk on his face when he announced that DACA was ending. I had to watch that sadistic fuck smile on the worst day of my life. The only good thing is that now people can finally see him for the monster that he is. Maybe now we'll be outraged enough to actually change. 

It's heartening to see the outrage over this, but I hope everyone knows--this isn't unAmerican. This is America. It's what we've been doing all along, what we've supported all along when we demonized and vilified immigrants. Only difference is now we're finally seeing it. 

Not fucking pretty, is it? 

 

Chinese exclusion act, Japanese prison camps, the Genocide of Indigenous peoples, slavery, turning away Jews fleeing Hitler. 

My grandfather’s entire family was murderd by the Nazis, my late aunt was a member of the Navajo Nation, my brother-in-law’s mother was in a Japanese interment camp.

So yea, this is American 

.

 

 

[Drala]

3 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Does anyone else feel like we've been played? This seems to follow Trump's pattern.

1. Choose a law on the books that is being enforced.

2. Ratchet it up and begin enforcing it in the most draconian way possible.

3. Fan the flames of people's outrage. Get FOX to defend the draconian measures. Bonus points if you can also blame Obama, Hillary, or Nancy Pelosi.

4. Sign an executive order backing off from the draconian measures and tell everyone that you are the "Great White Savior" (an awful phrase with despicable connotations, but, sadly, does describe Trump's attitude most accurately.

5. Declare victory.

6. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Yes, I'm feeling played by a textbook sociopath.  What scares me is that a large segment of the electorate haven't got a clue that we're being put through the wringer repeatedly by a man who literally has no conscience.