John Shrader 16: Flying Away in That No-Engine Plane

[Gobsmacked]

Zambian folk enjoy music. They certainly did in 2014. We listened to an excellent choir in Lusaka. Sadly can't remember the name of the choir. The safari camps we stayed in have competing choirs. Each year the camps hold competitions. There are a lot of talented singers working in the Safari industry. John just can't cope with the competition, snivelling little Brat that he is.

My Christmas wish for John? That other supporting churches also drop him.  Mean? Yes but I don't care.  

 

[EyesOpen]

I always feel so sorry for Esther and those kids when he’s manic... so far away - literally no support system and ranting manic John their only means of support...

[formergothardite]

I do wonder if some of this is because he is rapidly running off people who donate and he can never admit it is because he is the world's most inept missionary, so he must harp on about how he is so much more godly than others and if they drop him it is because they are following Satan. 

[thoughtful]

I'm not a Star Wars expert, but wasn't that outfit something Leia was forced to wear as a captive of Jabba? As others have pointed out, her garb of choice covered her whole body. Even when it comes to fiction, John is ready to blame the woman.

Somehow, I can't help suspecting that John has a copy of that picture hidden between his box spring and mattress.

 

[anjulibai]

I'm guessing John, given what he said about a princess figurine's dress, would also take issue with these dresses, despite how much is actually covered up. 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Palimpsest]

In other news, in a clash of the evangelising Titans, Alatheia is converting JWs.  Or trying to.  And Johnny wants to remind us that he still has Emmanuel in his clutches.

Quote

 

Our 14 year old daughter Alatheia was witnessing to some JW's today on Outreach. Praise the Lord, they actually listened a little as she shared the Pure Word of God with them. Alatheia turns 15 next March, but it seems she's going on 20!

What a blessing and joy she is to our family. She loves the Lord, loves her family, and truly loves lost souls.

Thanks Emmanuel for capturing this great photo for our memories and to share with those who pray for us.

 

How's Alatheia's homeschooling going, John?

[Palimpsest]

12 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I do wonder if some of this is because he is rapidly running off people who donate and he can never admit it is because he is the world's most inept missionary, so he must harp on about how he is so much more godly than others and if they drop him it is because they are following Satan. 

Interestingly John has only 6 positive comments, 4 loves and 9 likes on that rant so far.  I expect he's been busy deleting negative feedback.

In contrast the Aletheia comment has 147 loves and likes and 11 positive comments.  I suspect some donors must be continuing the support for the sake of Esther and kids.  They would do better to bring them home.

[gustava]

50 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

They would do better to bring them home.

I wonder whether they'd be better off in the States.  Once back, they could no longer grift for support from Daddy's sheeple.  And COL in Zambia is much lower than in the States.  The children would still not go to school.  I'm ambivalent.

[Palimpsest]

45 minutes ago, gustava said:

I'm ambivalent.

I'm not.  At all.  But it is not about the COL in Zambia.  John's luxury items and the way they eat probably cost more there than they would in Texas.

It would be better for the people of Zambia to have John and his twisted view of Christianity out of there. 

 It would be better for John and Esther to be out of Zambia because he is (and always has been) an international incident waiting to happen. 

And it would be much better for the children to be in easy reach of other family members in emergencies, and to be in the US if any of them want to make an escape as they get older.  By John's own account the family is socially isolated in Kafue - even from from other missionaries.  The children's only interactions with Zambians are couched in terms of seeing them as lesser beings in desperate need of conversion.  They should be brought home.

And John should get a real job to pay for his family.

[Howl]

 John's mental illness/personality disorder preclude him from holding any kind of job for any period of time.  Were they to move back to the US, they would be someone else's burden because John is utterly incapable of supporting his family, and, let's face it, doesn't in any way consider it his obligation or responsibility. 

However, for Esther and the kids, being in the US would be the much better situation, although John might very well continue to enforce the social isolation to a greater or lesser degree.  He's becoming crazier and more dogmatic and could very well start to use isolation to keep his kids away from the corruption of the world, and almost certainly that would include churches who don't ascribe to his increasingly crazy and restrictive theology, which would be all churches!  The craziest twist would be for John to return to the US and start his own very successful cult!  Weirder things have happened! 

However, there is the option for more family contact and support for Esther and kids were they in the US.  She needs it.  Ms. Fertility will likely have from two to five more kids before her womb slams shut. 

Sadly, the kids are un- or under-educated and that won't change. 

[Evangeline]

When even the IFB'ers think you're a legalistic, self-righteous tool, where do you go from there? Is John deliberately self-destructing? Or does he really have no idea how many supporters his past few posts are going to piss off? Oh, to be a fly on the wall! 

 

[formergothardite]

24 minutes ago, Evangeline said:

Or does he really have no idea how many supporters his past few posts are going to piss off? 

I think he does. But I think he is at the stage where he has run off so many supporters that he has to try to turn himself into a martyr for the faith because he knows his days as a missionary might be numbered. How long can Daddy Shrader keep him there? Time is running out for John and he knows it. He hasn't built up a mission field or an American support network. 

[CTRLZero]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

The craziest twist would be for John to return to the US and start his own very successful cult! 

Fecundity Legalistic Unaffiliated Baptist (FLUB) might work for branding a new cult.  Since John's overseas adventure seems to be funded solely through efforts by his father, I wonder what is going to happen when his father steps down. 

[formergothardite]

18 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I wonder what is going to happen when his father steps down. 

John is going to be up a creek without a paddle. At no point in his life has he supported himself. I pity the children when they have to rely only on John. 

[apandaaries]

18 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Fecundity Legalistic Unaffiliated Baptist (FLUB) might work for branding a new cult.   

Beautiful.

So John’s biggest accomplishment is really training his eldest to witness to Witnesses. Got it.

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

John's mental illness/personality disorder preclude him from holding any kind of job for any period of time.  Were they to move back to the US, they would be someone else's burden because John is utterly incapable of supporting his family, and, let's face it, doesn't in any way consider it his obligation or responsibility. 

I don't think the bolded is necessarily true.  Plenty of people with mental health dxs and personality disorders hold down jobs.  And John's mood swings, from grand plans to fits of the sulks, obvious as they may seem to us, are not necessarily evidence of mental illness.  He could just be a spoiled and irresponsible brat.  

When John wants, he can focus long enough to achieve a goal.  He managed to get through flying lessons and get his family and all material shit to Zambia.  He is a truly dedicated, focused, and very successful grifter  fundraiser.   When it suits him.

I think what stops John from ever having held down a job (except this "missionary" gig) for long is that the golden child has been consistently enabled by his father.  Every time Johnny has irresponsibly landed up shit creek without a paddle Daddy has rescued him.  Hell, he even quit a sales job because he didn't like listening to Christmas carols because he knew Daddykins would bail his family out.

As far as I can see, Rick is (or was) one of those IFB pastors who started his church while working other jobs to make ends meet.  His work ethic was better than John's.  It is Rick that has become more and more "separatist" along with John.  And more and more reliant on donations himself.  We could call that folie a deux - but the missionary evangelical passion and fundraising to send them overseas goes beyond the Shraders.

But that gravy train seems to be coming to an end.  Not only are donors falling away, Daddy is getting older, and John's family is getting bigger.  And bigger.  And his "mission" is failing.

I think @formergothardite is right.  John is being this provocative because he wants to explain away his decreasing donations as people not appreciating his specialness.  It can't possibly be because he fucked up and is a terrible missionary even by IFB standards.

Actually the strongest argument for John having a diagnosable MH issue is poor Jace.  IMO. 

Some dxs run in families, although the two middle Shrader brothers seem fine and living productive comparatively mainstream still conservative Christian lives.

Jace was not attacked by demons through the movies, whether Rick and John can understand that or not.  They obviously don't understand that Jace needed intervention and treatment probably as early as his late teens.  Praying it away would not work.  Jace admits himself that he is mentally ill but has not shared his diagnosis publicly.  He also admits to self-medicating with illegal drugs and alcohol.  

In all truth, people in Jace's condition are hell for families to deal with and many give up.  He seems way down that dual dx road and is still apparently resisting rehab.  But John has no compassion or understanding at all.  And I expect neither does Rick.  

Spoiler

Under a spoiler because I can't confirm.  It looks as though Jace was arrested for meth possession this year.  There is no mugshot so perhaps he was sent to rehab rather than to trial.  My heart breaks for him.  

 

[Gobsmacked]

50 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Fecundity Legalistic Unaffiliated Baptist (FLUB) might work for branding a new cult.  Since John's overseas adventure seems to be funded solely through efforts by his father, I wonder what is going to happen when his father steps down. 

What will happen when John's Dad dies? 

 

[Inky]

Do we actually know that donations are falling off? John doesn't seem to have changed his standard of living in any way. Or are we assuming that they must be, and his father is making up the $$ difference.

[Aine]

8 hours ago, Howl said:

The craziest twist would be for John to return to the US and start his own very successful cult!  Weirder things have happened! 

I don't think he's charismatic enough or smart enough to amass the power needed to start a cult. I think he'd be succeeding more in Zambia (or even in the US before Zambia) if he was- even if it was short-term- but he wouldn't run off people the way he does. Cult leaders are nearly always narcissistic, like John is, but they also have charisma and are better at manipulating others than John is. They usually tell people what they want to hear for awhile, even if they are also telling them they aren't living 'right'- but they usually make them feel special or chosen, at least at first. John is condescending and seems to truly believe that no one is doing life right except for him and how he does life and how he interprets things does seem to change. It's about his opinion on every Bible verse rather than and kind of overriding statement of belief that may allow for slight differences in interpretation of a verse or chapter. Disagreeing with John about anything will end with you being talked over and talked down to and probably wishing you could wipe his smug little look off his face.

I remember doing Bible study growing up in Catholic Church and my old housemate here had her church "small group" at our house about once a month and I'd often sit in (but didn't say much) because it would be an honest discussion about a section of the Bible that had been chosen that week. Their church had some uniting beliefs although they were non-denominational (the biggest one seemed to be that you should give love as Christ did, as only God can judge) but how individuals interpreted things was really different. Even slight differences would send John into a rage, I'm sure. 

[Aine]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Jace was not attacked by demons through the movies, whether Rick and John can understand that or not.  They obviously don't understand that Jace needed intervention and treatment probably as early as his late teens.  Praying it away would not work.  Jace admits himself that he is mentally ill but has not shared his diagnosis publicly.  He also admits to self-medicating with illegal drugs and alcohol.  

In all truth, people in Jace's condition are hell for families to deal with and many give up.  He seems way down that dual dx road and is still apparently resisting rehab.  But John has no compassion or understanding at all.  And I expect neither does Rick.  

I think I have seen Jace say that he has been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, back when he was posting a lot on public Facebook and calling out his parents for not supporting him.

I'm not going to call out Rick and Jodi Shrader for that because they might have done everything in the most evidence-based way for Jace, even though I doubt it. My mother and other family members have comorbid mental health issues with substance use disorder and I know how difficult it can be as a family member. I have also chosen to specialize as a mental health professional in trauma and substance use and the comorbidities that come with both of those conditions because the evidence-base for treating comorbidities is not good even though the vast majority of people with one diagnosis also have another by the ICD-10 or DSM-V. This is also my issue and many other psychologists' issue with diagnoses. The criteria in both of those diagnostic manuals did not come from proper statistical cluster analyses and there is a huge amount of overlap between disorders and the 'cut-offs' for how many symptoms you need to have to be diagnosed are totally arbitrary and in no way reflect an individual's impairment or distress. There are strong pushes for more of a spectrum approach or the constellation of symptoms approach- and that is how I practice for the most part. Using transdiagnostic practice elements to treat the symptoms someone presents with after doing an in-depth case conceptualization after a semi-structured interview and appropriate assessment...but I also worked full-time as a clinician for a number of years in substance use treatment (that is always comordid with another dx basically) and I know that that approach is more of an ideal rather than realistic when your client-base are chaotic, unpredictable, and usually treatment non-compliant when in the community. 

I'm rambling. But the other thing I was going to say is that based on how John views Jace's issues, I'm going to guess that Rick and Jodi Shrader have somewhat similar ideas. The one thing that is in support for diagnosis (besides the fact that in the US, we need to give one for insurance to cover treatment) is that if someone has Bipolar I Disorder, any kind of psychotic disorder like schizophrenia, or ADHD- those are the only three categories in which the gold-standard first-line treatment is medication. Also, more times that someone goes into full mania (rather than hypomania), the more impaired they become, they usually become more treatment resistant to medications, and the worse their prognosis is longterm. It is the same for psychosis. If you have one bout of psychosis and are medicated and follow all treatment (for Bipolar and psychotic disorders, the adjunct treatment to the medication is basically self-care and learning to minimize stress, emotionally regulate, tolerate distress, problem-solve, build meaningful and health social relationships, and GOOD SLEEP HYGIENE), there is actually a very good chance that you could come off that medication at some point in the future and if you look after yourself, never have another psychotic episode again. I'd have to find the reference because I read it about 18 months ago but there are a number of epidemiological studies and longitudinal studies that say about 90% won't have another episode if the above is followed.

You're at most risk of your second episode in the 12 months following the first and this is usually due to treatment non-compliance or not having access to treatment. After a second psychosis, the evidence suggests you should never come off the antipsychotic again, even if you get the dose way down, because the third one is usually when we can no longer treat all of the positive symptoms (those additional to what someone without the illness experiences like hallucinations, delusions, flight of ideas etc) and negative symptoms (those that are 'taking away' an ability that someone without the disorder may have like poverty of speech, flat affect, anhedonia, loss of motivation, asociality etc) of schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders with a drug anymore and the prognosis drops to about 1% have any likelihood of not having subsequent psychoses. Negative symptoms usually form more at the time of a third psychosis and they are the largest predictor of poor quality of life, complete disability due to the disease, inability to function in society etc. That in turn makes them less likely to take their medication because of less social support, probably unemployment or not having adequate health insurance, more chaos so less likely to fill out prescriptions or attend appointments etc. And that in turn means more psychosis. Basically, the more times and the longer the duration of a psychosis without treatment, the more treatment resistant it all becomes. 

Rambling and off topic again. Anyway- the only thing that I'd suggest or level at the Shraders is *if* they ignored Jace's manic symptoms of Bipolar or signs of psychosis if he has a psychotic disorder like schizophrenia or schizoaffective, it wouldn't surprise me that he looked to self-medicate with illicit drugs and that he became socially isolated (because religious or not, it's hard to be around someone in a manic state or psychotic state or around them afterwards when they experience the depressive or negative symptoms). I bet the shame of not being able to "pray away" his mental illness did not help.

But even if you do everything right as a parent (i.e. the horrendously difficult task of completely managing your adult child's medication and getting them the treatment they need and make sure they're getting the best wrap-around treatment possible- if that is even available in your area and you can afford it), these severe mental illnesses usually become apparent in the prodromal phase when they're in their late teens and think they know best, and hit their tipping point in their early to mid-20s when people want their independence and still think they know best and it's really hard to reason with someone who loves to be manic but their mania hasn't ruined their life yet or someone who barely remembers being psychotic or their delusions make them think that everyone is out to get them.

I think about Jace often. Almost every time I read this thread. I can't bare to try and see what he's up to. It makes me incredibly sad for him, especially when John is out there being a complete asshole but still has people telling him how wonderful he is for it.  

I'm so so so sorry for that wall of text. I just saw it when I posted and saw how long it was and how rambling but I think I needed to let it out because I do think of Jace a lot, especially when it is hypothesized that John is manic, and I probably bottle up all my anger and annoyance about how John is treated like the golden boy while Jace is suffering and likely not getting the help he desperately needs  

[EyesOpen]

This, John. You’re doing it sooo wrong. Worlds worst missionary ever.

[Palimpsest]

@Aine, please ramble on any time.  That was very informative about the complexities of mental illness and the limitations of the treatment options we have available to us at the moment.  It is always good to hear from a clinician.  And I also agree with the difficulties families have in trying to help people with very serious mental illnesses.  Jace is obviously very ill.

Jace breaks my heart too.  I didn't know (or forgot) that he had disclosed that he has bipolar disorder, but that would have been my best guess.  There's not any recent news on his public facebook but I worry about him too. 

14 hours ago, Inky said:

Do we actually know that donations are falling off? John doesn't seem to have changed his standard of living in any way. Or are we assuming that they must be, and his father is making up the $$ difference.

Good question.  We don't know for a fact that donations are falling off - it is more informed guesswork and broad hints dropped by John himself.  He is now frequently complaining that he has lost support because of his extreme and CORRECT Godly stances - the ones even his fellow missionaries find hard to swallow.

John's finances have always been as transparent as mud.   Deliberately so.   He used to identify as IFB, as did his original Sending Church.  Now he is attacking other IFB churches right and left from his "unafiliated" position and that can't make him popular.

We also know for a fact that he lost many of his original supporting churches over the disagreement with Rea.  That was when he was dumped by his first Sending Church and missionary clearing house.  Since then, all support has been channeled through Daddy's church.  And daddy's church and congregation were hard hit by hurricane Harvey two years ago. 

John was silent on Facebook for months after the huge rumpus last December.  Since he has been back he hasn't boasted about any major luxury purchases.  In fact, he has been pointing out that his new church plant was funded solely by tithes from the Kafue church and a donation from the "chief" he has in his Biblical pocket.  Not a cent of US money supported it - and all that sounds as though he has been told to watch the pennies.  By someone.

And no-one has sent him new printing equipment recently although he keeps complaining that his machines need new parts.  Johnny claims he never asks for anything he just prays about needs.  But his  hints are about as subtle as dropping anvils.

[formergothardite]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

And daddy's church and congregation were hard hit by hurricane Harvey two years ago. 

And according to some of John's posts Daddy's church dealt with people leaving this year over some sort of disagreement that sounds like might have been in regards to John. John's mission has been a flop from the beginning, he is a total smug asshole to everyone, so it wouldn't be surprising if even IFB are tired of him. Especially since he won't call himself IFB and that is sort of a big deal. 

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, formergothardite said:

And according to some of John's posts Daddy's church dealt with people leaving this year over some sort of disagreement that sounds like might have been in regards to John

You could save me much time and pain if you can remember roughly when that was.

I want to look at those posts again and scrolling through John's verbiage gives me a headache.

[formergothardite]

4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

You could save me much time and pain if you can remember roughly when that was.

I'm was trying to remember where it was! I think it was in one of his long rambling posts, but he could have also injected it into one of his long rambling poems. I'm of no help, I just remember that he mentioned people leaving his father's church for a vague reason that could be John. 

It was around October 19. I just copied it from what we quoted here.

Quote

just lost some church members over a stand for Truth. He has never wavered. 

Also around that time John wrote about how in the past year he had almost no support for his mission in America except for close family.