Erin and Chad 3: Welcoming Baby Everly

[Carm_88]

I'd be shocked if Erin stopped anytime soon. They will just keep being "happy little accidents!" 

[nokidsmom]

16 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I'd be shocked if Erin stopped anytime soon. They will just keep being "happy little accidents!" 

Same here. She's going to be like my niece who, thus far, is has 3 out of 4 who are "happy little accidents".  I am waiting to hear about no. 5.

Erin will keep on going while wondering while things are getting so hard. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Oh Erin will keep going until some major medical issue comes up. I think right now Erin is probably overwhelmed but she will eventually figure out the whole sister mom thing. Or in her case, the aunt mom thing. I think Erin will just have Ellie come to her house many days out of the week to help her. 

[Lurky]

The thing about the daughters growing up in chaos, with endless younger siblings, is because the way the gender mix panned out, Kelly & Michelle had a whole raft of sister-moms to hand off too, so although they started so young (Jana sister mom-ing at 7!) they were only looking after 1 baby at a time, and by the time "their" next child was born, their first sibling-child was old enough to help (I think of Jill talking about how Joy treated J'Buddy 2 as her own buddy).  So while they grew up in a chaotic household, they also knew who's jurisdiction everything was, so if Child J needs their nappy changed, that's their sister's job, not theirs, so it's fine. 

So in a weird sort of way, they might have less of an idea of what it's like parenting multiples, than someone like me, brought up with 2 siblings at 2 years apart, who could see my mother's issues juggling our different needs, from when I was 8 or so.  When THEY were 8, they knew they weren't special, and now they had a baby to raise - so it might be a total shock to have to be the sole one in charge.

(I am always gutted when Fundies have daughters, but especially when they're the older ones in the family.  I hope that it's all sons, for all of them, from now on.  It'll be different for Erin and Alyssa, knowing they have the built-in sister moms, than it will be for Jill and Jessa, eg)

[VelociRapture]

32 minutes ago, Lurky said:

The thing about the daughters growing up in chaos, with endless younger siblings, is because the way the gender mix panned out, Kelly & Michelle had a whole raft of sister-moms to hand off too, so although they started so young (Jana sister mom-ing at 7!) they were only looking after 1 baby at a time, and by the time "their" next child was born, their first sibling-child was old enough to help (I think of Jill talking about how Joy treated J'Buddy 2 as her own buddy).  So while they grew up in a chaotic household, they also knew who's jurisdiction everything was, so if Child J needs their nappy changed, that's their sister's job, not theirs, so it's fine. 

So in a weird sort of way, they might have less of an idea of what it's like parenting multiples, than someone like me, brought up with 2 siblings at 2 years apart, who could see my mother's issues juggling our different needs, from when I was 8 or so.  When THEY were 8, they knew they weren't special, and now they had a baby to raise - so it might be a total shock to have to be the sole one in charge.

(I am always gutted when Fundies have daughters, but especially when they're the older ones in the family.  I hope that it's all sons, for all of them, from now on.  It'll be different for Erin and Alyssa, knowing they have the built-in sister moms, than it will be for Jill and Jessa, eg)

Jill was actually the first official Duggar Sister Mom as far as we know. I think Michelle handed the babies over at six months, meaning Jill would have had responsibility for Joy around April 1998 when she was almost seven years old. Jana would have had a lot of responsibilities at that point due to being the eldest daughter, but Jill was the one who was first given an infant as an official buddy.

Otherwise, I think you make a fair point about why there may be a disconnect or a shock for these young moms as they add kids to the brood. I wouldn’t be surprised if the sister moms helped each other out a bit as needed with their buddies, but you’re correct that there’s a big difference between having a team of buddies well spaced out and having kids back to back for years on end.

[Lurky]

10 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if the sister moms helped each other out a bit as needed with their buddies, but you’re correct that there’s a big difference between having a team of buddies well spaced out and having kids back to back for years on end.

I also wonder what difference it makes if these 2nd Gen fundies find themselves really loving and being fascinated by their kid, and knowing that having eleventy children will mean they can't (eg) make a big deal about each one starting to walk, or get excited about things they're learning, etc etc.

The 1st Generation QF were burning with the fire of ideology, so had the self-righteousness glow that they were doing the right thing, but the 2nd Gen have been brought up in it, without any kind of choice.

I guess the difference is that the first, let's say, 5 or 6 kids could remember getting individualised attention, both when they were little, but also when they were being responsible, and especially when they were the first ones to court, go to college, get jobs (and as this is the Bateses, supporting their families), but I do wonder what middle kids, or kids near the bottom, without the benefits of being the treasured youngest ones/Last Baby, will feel like, if they fall in love with their own kids, and wonder why their parents never felt like that about them.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I also wonder what difference it makes if these 2nd Gen fundies find themselves really loving and being fascinated by their kid, and knowing that having eleventy children will mean they can't (eg) make a big deal about each one starting to walk, or get excited about things they're learning, etc etc.

The 1st Generation QF were burning with the fire of ideology, so had the self-righteousness glow that they were doing the right thing, but the 2nd Gen have been brought up in it, without any kind of choice.

I guess the difference is that the first, let's say, 5 or 6 kids could remember getting individualised attention, both when they were little, but also when they were being responsible, and especially when they were the first ones to court, go to college, get jobs (and as this is the Bateses, supporting their families), but I do wonder what middle kids, or kids near the bottom, without the benefits of being the treasured youngest ones/Last Baby, will feel like, if they fall in love with their own kids, and wonder why their parents never felt like that about them.

This is exactly why I always assume one of the middle to younger kids will rebel. From the boy twins down to Jordyn was always my assumption. They were mostly ignored by their parents and their sister moms all left before they were grown (except Jana of course).

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

The thing is, in addition to caring for their younger siblings, the girls always seem to have had one real other job, like Alyssa cooking. These girls may be prepared to take care of babies, even 3 in rapid succession, as long as they also only have to be in charge of say, laundry. Someone else cooks for the family. Another cleans. Another does all the packing for trips. Etc. Now, each is responsible for not only their own kids, but everything that comes along with running a household. That could be a lot more work than they anticipated. 

[Melissa1977]

26 minutes ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

The thing is, in addition to caring for their younger siblings, the girls always seem to have had one real other job, like Alyssa cooking. These girls may be prepared to take care of babies, even 3 in rapid succession, as long as they also only have to be in charge of say, laundry. Someone else cooks for the family. Another cleans. Another does all the packing for trips. Etc. Now, each is responsible for not only their own kids, but everything that comes along with running a household. That could be a lot more work than they anticipated. 

Plus the emotional side of motherhood and the fact that one thing is sistermomming and other is being in charge and making decisions. Decisions+chores are a hard work. Kelly disconnected (no real bond after some kids) and just give orders. Girls just did chores. So both Kelly and the girls had less work than a mom alone with several little kids. Now these Bates sistermoms must do chores+organising+ fulfilling kids emotional needs (kids are too little to make chores or entertain themselves).

This said, I think Michaela was a mother for the youngest 2 or 3, not a sistermom. And probably Jana with Josie. I tell them mothers because I assume they make desicions about these kids. But not the other girls, who are being 100% mothers now.

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is exactly why I always assume one of the middle to younger kids will rebel. From the boy twins down to Jordyn was always my assumption. They were mostly ignored by their parents and their sister moms all left before they were grown (except Jana of course).

I want to say I was talking about the Duggars in this post but I also think this about the Bates family. 

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

The thing is, in addition to caring for their younger siblings, the girls always seem to have had one real other job, like Alyssa cooking. These girls may be prepared to take care of babies, even 3 in rapid succession, as long as they also only have to be in charge of say, laundry. Someone else cooks for the family. Another cleans. Another does all the packing for trips. Etc. Now, each is responsible for not only their own kids, but everything that comes along with running a household. That could be a lot more work than they anticipated. 

This is a really good point.  Each of the jobs takes more time for 21 people than 5, eg, and I bet when Jinger was on laundry duty, it felt like it would never end - but it's a lot easier to just focus on (eg) making a spaghetti meal for 21 than it is for trying to do 3 tasks for 5 people at once, and with no one else to help you out. 

[BeccaGrim]

Not to mention throw in this having a husband to contend with. I don't know what these guys are like in person but we know they have 'headship.' Sure they had their fathers and brothers but it was their mother having to be 'available' all the time. So cook, clean, take care of the kids, and then be available whenever he wants since to quote Michelle "anyone can make his sandwich but only you can be there for him" attitude and they probably are seriously overwhelmed without the factory amount of kids to run the house with them. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I want to add that if your job was laundry from the age of 9 or 10, you may not have had much cooking experience. Especially when you are only cooking very easy to prepare large meals like tator tot casserole or chickenetti. I’m guessing that most of the Duggar and Bates wives were not prepared to cook right after they were married. There was likely a learning curve for all of them. Even the ones in charge of cooking because they now are only cooking for 2 instead of 20.

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

On 30/04/2018 at 9:54 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

This is exactly why I always assume one of the middle to younger kids will rebel. From the boy twins down to Jordyn was always my assumption. They were mostly ignored by their parents and their sister moms all left before they were grown (except Jana of course).

I haven’t watched the early Bates as much as I have the Duggars, but do any of their younger girls appear to have been traumatized by their sister moms leaving like Jenni was when Jill and Joy got married? Jenni (and any others like her) I could definitely see having very few children due to her own fears of being abandoned and neglected and wanting to form an attachment to her kids in a way Michelle did not.

[Kangaroo]

45 minutes ago, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

I haven’t watched the early Bates as much as I have the Duggars, but do any of their younger girls appear to have been traumatized by their sister moms leaving like Jenni was when Jill and Joy got married? Jenni (and any others like her) I could definitely see having very few children due to her own fears of being abandoned and neglected and wanting to form an attachment to her kids in a way Michelle did not.

I think when Michael got married one or two of the younger girls were pretty upset. Callie I think was pretty upset before the wedding, and maybe Ellie at the end when they left.

 

[JoylessAnna]

Judson was upset at Tori's wedding. Kelly posted a picture; absolutely heartbreaking.

[VelociRapture]

10 hours ago, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

I haven’t watched the early Bates as much as I have the Duggars, but do any of their younger girls appear to have been traumatized by their sister moms leaving like Jenni was when Jill and Joy got married? Jenni (and any others like her) I could definitely see having very few children due to her own fears of being abandoned and neglected and wanting to form an attachment to her kids in a way Michelle did not.

Here you go:

Michael comforting little Callie before her wedding. Ellie might have been upset too, but Callie was honestly devastated.

Spoiler

Tori comforting Judson after he realized she was leaving. Kelly tried playing it off that it was a sweet moment of love and it likely was - but she failed to acknowledge how devastated he looked because Kelly sucks.

ETA: If I remember right, Michael wound up walking one of the youngest sisters (I think Callie) down the aisle at Erin’s wedding. She had opted not to be a Bridesmaid, but Callie was apparently upset and needed some help from Michael. 

[QuiverDance]

That picture of Judson actually made my eyes tear up.  That is legit pain on that little one's face.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jigsaw3]

Since the wedding, either Michael or Kelly has mentioned (I think several times, too) how happy Callie always is to spend time with Michael when they visit, and how devastated Callie gets when it's time to say goodbye again.  Callie's real emotional maternal attachment is to Michael, not Kelly, and that's on Kelly.

The Bates should send Callie to live with Michael permanently. Callie would love that, Michael would adore it too. Callie would get much more attention and probably a better education, too: Michael has an actual accredited college degree. She would help fill the kids gap, and would be a built-in mother's helper when kids come. Callie also seems pretty quiet by the standards of the Bateses, so hopefully she would get along with Brandon as well.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Since the wedding, either Michael or Kelly has mentioned (I think several times, too) how happy Callie always is to spend time with Michael when they visit, and how devastated Callie gets when it's time to say goodbye again.  Callie's real emotional maternal attachment is to Michael, not Kelly, and that's on Kelly.

The Bates should send Callie to live with Michael permanently. Callie would love that, Michael would adore it too. Callie would get much more attention and probably a better education, too: Michael has an actual accredited college degree. She would help fill the kids gap, and would be a built-in mother's helper when kids come. Callie also seems pretty quiet by the standards of the Bateses, so hopefully she would get along with Brandon as well.

Kelly and Gil don’t think of what’s best for their kids though. So they won’t do it. That would make them look really bad on the show. It’s all about how they present themselves on the show and to the public. 

[Joyfully_Unavailable]

Thank you @VelociRapture! Wow that was heartbreaking to watch. I think one of the most egregious lies these shows sell is that these mothers are uniquely blessed to be capable of raising this many children on their own and that the kids have such a loving sibling relationship, they cry when their older siblings get married. It’s too soon to know what the full emotional and psychological impact on them will be, but I’m hoping they realize how destructive this was and use it to give them the strength to leave the cult when they’re older.

[candygirl200413]

This is just so heartbreaking for all these poor children. Like similar to @Joyfully_Unavailable, these parents truly don't care about their children like their sister-moms. 

[QuiverDance]

17 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Since the wedding, either Michael or Kelly has mentioned (I think several times, too) how happy Callie always is to spend time with Michael when they visit, and how devastated Callie gets when it's time to say goodbye again.  Callie's real emotional maternal attachment is to Michael, not Kelly, and that's on Kelly.

The Bates should send Callie to live with Michael permanently. Callie would love that, Michael would adore it too. Callie would get much more attention and probably a better education, too: Michael has an actual accredited college degree. She would help fill the kids gap, and would be a built-in mother's helper when kids come. Callie also seems pretty quiet by the standards of the Bateses, so hopefully she would get along with Brandon as well.

This would be so amazing for both of them.  But they’d never do it. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

43 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

This would be so amazing for both of them.  But they’d never do it. 

I wish they would let Callie visit for an extended period during the summer. 

[Lurky]

19 hours ago, Jigsaw3 said:

Since the wedding, either Michael or Kelly has mentioned (I think several times, too) how happy Callie always is to spend time with Michael when they visit, and how devastated Callie gets when it's time to say goodbye again.  Callie's real emotional maternal attachment is to Michael, not Kelly, and that's on Kelly.

I can't even imagine how bad for little kids it is to go through this - surely it's got to be creating attachment issues?  And yet, the Fundies would condemn anyone who divorced, because it's terrible for children, and yet they do things 1000 times worse than the average divorce. 

It just feels cruel to me, to have these poor little kids bonding with their birth mother while she'd breast feeding them, then just dumping them on a sister-mom, and then, after 7-9 years, the child's "mother" leaves them, and presumably an older sister is expected to take her place.... until SHE leaves to get married too.  We've seen this over and over with the Bates and Duggar kids - and now the little kids are about to enter their teens, having had 2 mother figures abandon them, been shown on TV devastated and heartbroken at their sisters' weddings, and we know the birth parents won't care about them until they are old enough to marry off, because now the birth parents are reveling in being grandparents, and all about the cute little babies they have even less responsibility for.  Lost Children indeed.