Joy and Austin 19: 273 Days After the Wedding Gideon Arrived

[SorenaJ]

12 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

Your mindset helps fuck this country more.  "America isn't as bad as" is how we race to the bottom.  We should be looking UP and struggling for that, not down and being complacent.  I get the feeling you're a business owner who bitches at having to provide any benefits, even through you may say you don't.  You definitely have that horrible Republican mindset of "be grateful for this shit I'm giving you since Haiti and Mexico have worse shit, and just ignore how every other developed nation is humane."

Yes. Look at the countries you want to be like, and don't be content with status quo. "At least we are not as bad as xy". Like, that is the most depressing thing I have heard all day. Look at happiest country in the world, countries with the best education, best country to be a mother, corruption ranks, inequality index, etc etc, and ask yourself: What are these Nordic countries doing right? 

[Fascinated]

It seems like people want to discuss the healthcare situation and celebrities reneging on their promises, etc., so perhaps that conversation should have its own thread?  Just a thought. 

Anyway, as far as little young Gideon is concerned, I can assure him that he has a very nice birth date. On Friday my dad turned 89 and my second youngest granddaughter turned one!  So Gideon is in some pretty stellar company right there.  I hope the birth was as easy as possible for Joy.

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 minute ago, SorenaJ said:

Yes. Look at the countries you want to be like, and don't be content with status quo. "At least we are not as bad as xy". Like, that is the most depressing thing I have heard all day. Look at happiest country in the world, countries with the best education, best country to be a mother, corruption ranks, inequality index, etc etc, and ask yourself: What are these Nordic countries doing right? 

Someone should hang a sign, "America, At least we aren't Haiti!" That will make it all better.

[candygirl200413]

But guys Chrissy Tegen's response :

Spoiler

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

2 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Someone should hang a sign, "America, At least we aren't Haiti!" That will make it all better.

I'll set up the shop on Zazzle so we can all order t-shirts with that slogan.

[CinnaJen]

He’s adorable   My daughter was 10 lbs 2 oz and no gestational diabetes here.  Glad it appears that they got medical attention and didn’t go the home birth route.  I hope they’re very happy and she’s not pregnant again anytime soon.  

[Cleopatra7]

6 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Someone should hang a sign, "America, At least we aren't Haiti!" That will make it all better.

Actually, some parts of the US are as bad as Haiti:

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533

“Living conditions in Pine Ridge, Lakota, were described as comparable to Haiti, with annual incomes of less than $12,000 and infant mortality rates three times higher than the national rate. Nine lives have been lost there to suicide in the last three months, including one six year old. Nevertheless, federally funded programmes aimed at suicide prevention have been de-funded.”

[gameofunbeknowns]

7 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I am really tired of the narrative that liberals/Democrats need to remain calm and composed in the face of everything the Republicans throw our way. They take away women's rights, they take away LGBTQIA rights, they take away immigrant's rights. They think it's cool that PoC get shot by the police, and that children are being slaughtered in schools. But we're supposed to just stand there and debate nicely and calmly, and when that doesn't change anything, we're supposed to gracefully accept defeat.

Frankly, that has been the Democratic party's modus operandi for way too long, and it has just made right-wing Republicans stronger and stronger. It's clearly not working. So I am done being nice to people who want to destroy everything I believe in. YMMV.

I haven’t seen anyone advocate accepting defeat. When you are an actual minority the outcome matters more than the optics. Legislative change is accomplished both by respectability politics and riots. 

It seems outlandish to me to discredit respectability politics when there are documented instances of it working. As a Poc I care more about having equal rights than my temporary fuck you to a maybe troll and potential ally.

Also I just have to say I sure hope the people advocating minorities get angry are actual minorities ( @Cleopatra7 not talking to you this has been discussed) because oh dear god there’s nothing more we love than the oppressors dictating how upset we’re allowed to be.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

What a cute little chubbo. He looks so cuddly.

Giddy up, Gideon. Welcome to the ever expanding Duggar Nation.

[Four is Enough]

OK... how on earth do you fill a birthing pool in time to deliver?

How do you keep it warm while you're pushing?

And how do you DRAIN it once it's full of blood and mucous and all that?

And Austin gets points for holding his arm around Joy AND on the baby... in every photo.

[TheRadleyPorch]

1 hour ago, Mela99 said:

BIBLE PEOPLE. Okay. That's why I knew the name. 

I maintain it could have been a lot worse. Baby Gideon is better than Baby Spurgeon or Baby Pippy-go-merry-stockings or whatever the hell some people name their kids these days . . . . 

 

This just sounds like you wanted to name your baby after two bumbling but ultimately heroic hobbits. I guess you could do worse!

[JillyO]

7 minutes ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

I haven’t seen anyone advocate accepting defeat. When you are an actual minority the outcome matters more than the optics. Legislative change is accomplished both by respectability politics and riots. 

It seems outlandish to me to discredit respectability politics when there are documented instances of it working. As a Poc I care more about having equal rights than my temporary fuck you to a maybe troll and potential ally.

Also I just have to say I sure hope the people advocating minorities get angry are actual minorities ( @Cleopatra7 not talking to you this has been discussed) because oh dear god there’s nothing more we love than the oppressors dictating how upset we’re allowed to be.

Do please explain where I've advocated for minorities to get more angry? I'm guessing you're talking to me since you're quoting me. I said I am done being nice to people who want to destroy everything I believe in. I didn't tell anyone else what to do. I am acutely aware of my white privilege, and I KNOW I can do things that PoC cannot do out of sheer fear for their lives. Which is exactly why I think it is my responsibility, as a cis white women, to use my privilege for good. If you're more the type to politely debate, that's great. If you're more the type to write letters to your rep, that's great. You do you. But let's not pretend that all positive social change comes trough polite debate alone. And please stop putting words in my mouth. Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, did I try to dictate what PoC (or anyone else, for that matter) should do or how upset they're allowed to be.

[Cleopatra7]

With regard to respectability politics, I think they may work at the micro level but not so much at the macro level. Here I’m thinking about the distinction between the approach of Booker T Washington vs W.E.B. Dubois. Washington taught that blacks should not press for political rights or liberal arts education, but should instead focus on industrial training and the acquisition of middle class habits. In comparison, Dubois said that blacks needed to advocate for full political equality and integrated, high quality public education for all. Washington’s approach may have helped many at the individual level (full disclosure: my great grandmother was a student of his in the early twentieth century at Tuskegee), but if whites are operating from the premise that blacks have no rights worth respecting, they’re not going to wake up one day and decide, “Yes, black people have become respectable enough for us to condescend to give them civil rights.” If whites weren’t ready to give blacks civil rights in the 1950s and many are mortally offended today by the phrase black lives matter, it’s obvious that respectability politics don’t work at the macro level.

Furthermore, if society wants blacks to develop bourgeois habits, it has to decide that it even wants a black middle class in the first place. As Dubois correctly pointed out, white racists would prefer 100 black criminals to a 100 black PhDs, because the former are easy to control via the prison industrial complex and won’t challenge the status quo. 

Plus, there have to be laws in place to protect black lives and black property for a black middle class to exist. At the beginning of the 20th entity, Tulsa had a thriving black middle class and was even called “the Black Wall Street.” It was destroyed during the Tulsa Race Riot and never rebuilt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

[AtlanticTug]

I don't like the name Gideon, but I don't think it's awful or weird (heyo Spurgie!), I just personally don't like it and I don't like when first and middle names rhyme. He is cute though. He looks just like all the other Duggar grandsons, except Anna's and Josh's boys. Israel, Samuel, Spurgeon, Henry and Gideon all kind of look like they could be brothers in some way or another.

10lb3oz, yowza. And I had a 9 and a half pounder which I already thought was like giving birth to a 1-month-old. Let's hope her subsequent kids don't keep getting bigger as that's really hard on the body.

She does look exhausted as expected. I saw somebody post that they hoped she had a lot of help in the upcoming weeks. Sure, if it's from freaking ADULTS who want to help. Not a single one of her minor sisters should be forced to clean her house, cook or anything of the sort.

[gameofunbeknowns]

Just now, JillyO said:

Do please explain where I've advocated for minorities to get more angry? I'm guessing you're talking to me since you're quoting me. I said I am done being nice to people who want to destroy everything I believe in. I didn't tell anyone else what to do. I am acutely aware of my white privilege, and I KNOW I can do things that PoC cannot do out of sheer fear for their lives. Which is exactly why I think it is my responsibility, as a cis white women, to use my privilege for good. If you're more the type to politely debate, that's great. If you're more the type to write letters to your rep, that's great. You do you. But let's not pretend that all positive social change comes trough polite debate alone. And please stop putting words in my mouth. Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, did I try to dictate what PoC (or anyone else, for that matter) should do or how upset they're allowed to be.

I will explain  I quoted you to say I don’t agree that anyone has argued accepting defeat. Then went on to state, pretty clearly I think, that change is accomplished by BOTH respectability politics and revolutionary politics. So where exactly did I put words in your mouth?

To simultaneously say that you’re tired of the narrative of respectability politics and that “it’s great” is disingenuous at best and condescending AF at worst.

[Analytica49]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

...

I am not happy at all that they had a boy instead of a girl. Their boys will be the future patriarchs, headships, oppressors and abusers. I think more children born into fundamentalism is bad news regardless of their sex. That said, I would not wish infertility on them, either - so what I basically default to hoping is that they will leave fundamentalism. That's pretty much all I can hope for.

...

I've bolded the part I want to talk about.

I saw someone else (but sorry I don't remember where) say that they would not wish infertility even on Jessa and Jill. So, this is not really about what you wrote, @singsingsing, but it gives me the occasion to express something I've been thinking about.

I don't wish infertility on Duggarlings who have not yet had children. But I am totally against the Quiverfull "procreate for God" programme, and I oppose what seems to be the commitment that I assume they have to produce huge numbers of kids. This isn't good for the kids, of any sex, and it certainly isn't good for the country, because the progeny will all be raised with ultra-rightwing, patriarchal, misogynist, even xenophobic beliefs.

So, perhaps people will think this is terrible, but personally I'd be quite happy if infertility descended upon the Duggar spawn after they've had a few children. If you're raising your children in a cult, you don't deserve to have a lot of kids.

 

[eveandadam]

Wow! Why do the Duggar daughters have SUCH huge babies. I don't even know one woman personally who has had such heavy babies. When my aunt had my cousin he weighed 8.8 pounds which was incredible at the time (1983). nobody could believe it. I weighed 5.4 pounds at birth and was considered almost full-term, missed that status by an ounce or two.

What do they put in the water over there in NWA?

Just wanted to throw that birth chart out there. The Duggar daughters are always above the 90% mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_weight

[Whatthefundie]

7 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I don't like the name Gideon, but I don't think it's awful or weird (heyo Spurgie!), I just personally don't like it and I don't like when first and middle names rhyme. He is cute though. He looks just like all the other Duggar grandsons, except Anna's and Josh's boys. Israel, Samuel, Spurgeon, Henry and Gideon all kind of look like they could be brothers in some way or another.

10lb3oz, yowza. And I had a 9 and a half pounder which I already thought was like giving birth to a 1-month-old. Let's hope her subsequent kids don't keep getting bigger as that's really hard on the body.

She does look exhausted as expected. I saw somebody post that they hoped she had a lot of help in the upcoming weeks. Sure, if it's from freaking ADULTS who want to help. Not a single one of her minor sisters should be forced to clean her house, cook or anything of the sort.

I think baby Gideon looks just like his grandpa Forsyth, but that may just be me 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

6 minutes ago, AtlanticTug said:

I don't like the name Gideon, but I don't think it's awful or weird (heyo Spurgie!), I just personally don't like it and I don't like when first and middle names rhyme. He is cute though. He looks just like all the other Duggar grandsons, except Anna's and Josh's boys. Israel, Samuel, Spurgeon, Henry and Gideon all kind of look like they could be brothers in some way or another.

10lb3oz, yowza. And I had a 9 and a half pounder which I already thought was like giving birth to a 1-month-old. Let's hope her subsequent kids don't keep getting bigger as that's really hard on the body.

She does look exhausted as expected. I saw somebody post that they hoped she had a lot of help in the upcoming weeks. Sure, if it's from freaking ADULTS who want to help. Not a single one of her minor sisters should be forced to clean her house, cook or anything of the sort.

I can see Hannie and Jenny wanting to go hang out at Joy Joy's and with baby Gideon Hannie is at a good age for baby sitting (not sister/aunt mom but baby SITTING) and Joy is Jenni's 2nd mom behind Jill.  

Just now, eveandadam said:

Wow! Why do the Duggar daughters have SUCH huge babies. I don't even know one woman personally who has had such heavy babies. When my aunt had my cousin he weighed 8.8 pounds which was incredible at the time (1983). nobody could believe it. I weighed 5.4 pounds at birth and was considered almost full-term, missed that status by an ounce or two.

What do they put in the water over there in NWA?

My 1st was 8lbs born at 36 weeks my 2nd was 9lbs 3oz born at 38 weeks 3days. My sister's kids were each born at 38 weeks the 1st was 8lbs 14 oz and the 2nd 8lbs 8oz, had we both gone to term we'd have had close to or over 10lbs babies.

[gameofunbeknowns]

9 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

With regard to respectability politics, I think they may work at the micro level but not so much at the macro level. Here I’m thinking about the distinction between the approach of Booker T Washington vs W.E.B. Dubois. Washington taught that blacks should not press for political rights or liberal arts education, but should instead focus on industrial training and the acquisition of middle class habits. In comparison, Dubois said that blacks needed to advocate for full political equality and integrated, high quality public education for all. Washington’s approach may have helped many at the individual level (full disclosure: my great grandmother was a student of his in the early twentieth century at Tuskegee), but if whites are operating from the premise that blacks have no rights worth respecting, they’re not going to wake up one day and decide, “Yes, black people have become respectable enough for us to condescend to give them civil rights.” If whites weren’t ready to give blacks civil rights in the 1950s and many are mortally offended today by the phrase black lives matter, it’s obvious that respectability politics don’t work at the macro level.

Furthermore, if society wants blacks to develop bourgeois habits, it has to decide that it even wants a black middle class in the first place. As Dubois correctly pointed out, white racists would prefer 100 black criminals to a 100 black PhDs, because the former are easy to control via the prison industrial complex and won’t challenge the status quo. 

Plus, there have to be laws in place to protect black lives and black property for a black middle class to exist. At the beginning of the 20th entity, Tulsa had a thriving black middle class and was even called “the Black Wall Street.” It was destroyed during the Tulsa Race Riot and never rebuilt:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

Are we talking about the DuBois of the “Talented Tenth” who advocated classical education (which necessitates a bit of appropriation and assimilation on its own)?

[AtlanticTug]

2 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I can see Hannie and Jenny wanting to go hang out at Joy Joy's and with baby Gideon Hannie is at a good age for baby sitting (not sister/aunt mom but baby SITTING) and Joy is Jenni's 2nd mom behind Jill.  

Yeah, if they want to go over there and hold him and help dress him like he's a doll, go right ahead. Though I really wonder how exciting it is for them given they have a newborn to play with like every other month now.

What I don't want them to do is clean Joy's house (like they did Jessa's), do her laundry or dishes, make her meals, etc. These girls aren't even teenagers yet. Enough is enough.

As for wishing infertility on them, I've been through that and wouldn't wish it on anyone. But early menopause? Bring it.

[Satan'sFortress]

2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Do they take their home birth babies in for a new born exams? Even a routine Apgar score? I'm okay with a home birth when attended by a certijfed nurse mid wife, I just don't trust them to follow up with proper newborn care.

To be a CNM, you must be an RN as well, and so would be extremely capable of newborn care.  I had CNMs at both births---they absolutely did all of the infant care after birth--including all the routine screenings, tests, blood work that newborns in the USA get. I have a hunch that nurses in general (and I include CNMs here) are at least as capable as OBs, and likely more practiced in routine care of healthy newborns.

Of course, I followed up with our pediatrician for both births as well, but for the immediate care after birth, I was extremely satisfied with my CNM care.

[JillyO]

1 minute ago, gameofunbeknowns said:

I will explain  I quoted you to say I don’t agree that anyone has argued accepting defeat. Then went on to state, pretty clearly I think, that change is accomplished by BOTH respectability politics and revolutionary politics. So where exactly did I put words in your mouth?

To simultaneously say that you’re tired of the narrative of respectability politics and that “it’s great” is disingenuous at best and condescending AF at worst.

As I wrote pretty clearly in my last post, you put words in my mouth by saying that I was "advocating minorities get angry" and "dictating how upset [they're] allowed to be."

But you are clearly trying to misconstrue everything I say, so I will leave it at that. I'm sure the majority of posters are sick of this discussion anyway. I'd invite you to continue the discussion elsewhere, but I don't particularly appreciate someone deliberately trying to twist everything I say to fit with some idea of me that they have in their head. Have a great day.

[Analytica49]

3 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Holy cow!! My baby is 11 weeks and hasn't hit 10 lbs yet. My baby was born naturally but the labor and delivery went relatively quickly so she didn't have a cone head. Someone was saying a round head is suspicious like a c-section. Not necessarily. 

I agree! Joy's baby is about the size each of my babies was when they were three months old. He doesn't look like a newborn.

Opinions on this may vary, but I'm glad I got to experience the stages of my infants when they fit "0-3 month" clothes. They were just so cute! Admittedly, I was fortunate that my babies were both healthy. I know that smallness can bring problems.

 

[viii]

2 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

He doesn't look like a newborn.

Careful - don't get that rumour mill going!